Avengers Force Sub JEDI

[omega1]

Half the planet has seen Avengers, but I will warn SPOILERS

Towards the end of the movie we see our heroes

Hulk
Captain America
HawkEye
BlackWidow
Ironman
Thor

Standing in that famous circle of theirs and preparing to do battle with the captain calling out the instructions, enter FORCE SUB

Those heroes are replaced by

Darth Sidious
Yoda
Mace Windu
Anakin
Obiwan
Darth Maul

They are not just shot into the scene and surprised, they have been prepared and know as much as the avengers do, you pick the 'leader' if necessary. Do you think they can survive? In the movie the nuke is eventually fired towards the city but is redirected by Iron Man. Same case here, but instead suppose they can use the Force to redirect it into the portal ...assuming they are still alive.

[Ahriman238]

Well, first thing they do is kill each other off. Which side wins will depend largely on what sort of timeframe this is and whose side Anakin is on. The Avengers had this whole long process of becoming a team that could survive this thing and work together effectively, here we have two groups of mortal enemies who, frankly, will consider the other side a far greater and more immediate threat than the Chitauri.

[omega1]

Well, first thing they do is kill each other off. Which side wins will depend largely on what sort of timeframe this is and whose side Anakin is on. The Avengers had this whole long process of becoming a team that could survive this thing and work together effectively, here we have two groups of mortal enemies who, frankly, will consider the other side a far greater and more immediate threat than the Chitauri.

for the sake of the debate, let us assume they will work together

[Lord Relvenous]

Why not just make it:
Yoda (RotS ra)
Mace Windu (RotS era, pre-death of course)
Anakin (RotS pre-fall)
Obi-Wan (RotS era)
Luke Skywalker (RotJ era, post-Death Star II battle)
Kyp Durron (Conclusion of Yuuzhan Vong invasion time period)

Of course, the eras could be tweaked, depending on the attributes you want the character to bring to the team. That way you actually have cooperating team members with having to just wave away core personality traits.

[omega1]

Why not just make it:
Yoda (RotS ra)
Mace Windu (RotS era, pre-death of course)
Anakin (RotS pre-fall)
Obi-Wan (RotS era)
Luke Skywalker (RotJ era, post-Death Star II battle)
Kyp Durron (Conclusion of Yuuzhan Vong invasion time period)

Of course, the eras could be tweaked, depending on the attributes you want the character to bring to the team. That way you actually have cooperating team members with having to just wave away core personality traits.

Alright, but can they actually survive long enough to deflect the missile? I'm not sure if they would be very capable of taking on the flying scooters. Might just get bombarded from the sky like they tried to do with the hulk

[The Romulan Republic]

Yoda took out flying vehicles with the Force in the original Clone Wars TV series. A thrown light saber could also be used to take down flying vehicles.

On the subject of who I'd select for the team, I'd go with the following group:

-Anakin
-Obi-wan
-Yoda
-Mace Windu
-Ashoka
-Kit Fisto

But with the one in the OP, the Sith will cause trouble.

Lord Relvenous's team would work better, though I expect Anakin and Luke meeting would be interesting, and cause problems with the time line. So my answer is that the disruption of the time line causes the Doctor to show up, at which point the Chitauri are fucked no matter what the Jedi do.

Anyway, the Battle of Geonosis does not make me confident that a small group of Jedi can handle a large number of foes with guns (and the droids didn't even have aircraft).

[The Imperator]

Throw in Darth Nihilus or Darth Tenebrae to make it a stomp

I don't think the Jedi will win, unless this is LotF Luke Skywalker, DE Palpatine, and EIII Yoda. Other than those characters, the SW side doesn't have as good a chance.

[Solauren]

Best Force Sub -
Yoda (E3)
Anakin Skywalker (just after he landed the Invisible Hand)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (E3)
Mace Windu (E3)
Luke Skywalker (Post Vong War)
Mara Jade Skywalker (Post Vong War)
Starkiller (right after he defeated Vader on the Death Star)

Mind you, Starkiller himself might be overkill........

[The Imperator]

Best Force Sub -
Yoda (E3)
Anakin Skywalker (just after he landed the Invisible Hand)
Obi-Wan Kenobi (E3)
Mace Windu (E3)
Luke Skywalker (Post Vong War)
Mara Jade Skywalker (Post Vong War)
Starkiller (right after he defeated Vader on the Death Star)

Mind you, Starkiller himself might be overkill........

No, he would not be overkill. Luke, post Vong war, is definitely beyond Starkiller, so Starkiller fits in well. Luke could spam illusions, and trick the Chitauri into attacking themselves.

[Jim Raynor]

The Jedi and Sith will absolutely own the Chitauri infantry, which was pretty weak. Black Widow was taking out tons of them with hand-to-hand and a pair of 9mm pistols. The Jedi could also probably hijack a Chitauri speeder with ease. The real concern is not to stay down in one place and allow these weak but numerous aliens to swarm them, the way the Separatist battledroids did on Geonosis (or the way that squadron of speeders bombarded the Hulk, the only time they were able to make a significant attack on him).

The Leviathans would probably be a waste of time to even engage. They had armor strong enough to deflect all of Iron Man's weapons, so I doubt that a lightsaber would be able to cut through very easily. However, the Leviathans also seemed pretty clumsy, and I don't believe they had any weapon systems of their own. Those big whales wouldn't be very good at hunting down individual Jedi, so they can mostly be ignored even if they keep smashing into civilian buildings.

The Jedi should just end this battle quickly by focusing their efforts on the Tesseract at the top of Stark Tower. In the actual battle, the Avengers split up and spent lots of time running around, trying to protect civilians even as more Chitauri forces kept pouring in. The key should be to close of the portal, before the Chitauri overwhelm everyone, and a nuke is called in.

[The Romulan Republic]

How would the Jedi fair against Loki? He's extremely durable. He doesn't seem to be seriously harmed by taking a blast from Coulson's powerful gun and he survived a beating from the Hulk, who easily took down a Leviathan. Could a light sabre harm him?

Of course, he lacks precognition and telekinesis, but he has mind control, illusions, and the ability to catch Hawkeye's arrow.

[The Imperator]

How would the Jedi fair against Loki? He's extremely durable. He doesn't seem to be seriously harmed by taking a blast from Coulson's powerful gun and he survived a beating from the Hulk, who easily took down a Leviathan. Could a light sabre harm him?

Of course, he lacks precognition and telekinesis, but he has mind control, illusions, and the ability to catch Hawkeye's arrow.

Well, DE Palpatine simply sends a Force Storm at him, or lightnings him to death. And Loki's illusions have nothing on Luke's, which can even fool ship sensors.

[fordlltwm]

How about God-Jedi Luke from the end of courtship, after his resurection thing when he can fly the falcon single handedly with more accuracy than a full crew?

Have him nick one of the speeders and he could pretty much keep everyone busy....

[skinofevil]

No OPing the protagonists, no nerfing the villains.

[AMT]

I see either a) The Chitauri massing fire like they did against the Hulk, except unlike the Hulk, the Jedi don't survive or
b) Loki takes them out one at a time via a combination of illusions, staff mind control, or superior strength and durability.

[The Imperator]

I see either a) The Chitauri massing fire like they did against the Hulk, except unlike the Hulk, the Jedi don't survive or
b) Loki takes them out one at a time via a combination of illusions, staff mind control, or superior strength and durability.

Except of course that Palpatine can simply force storm them away. Yes, I see the OPs Jedi/Sith roster losing, but it won't be that easy, especially if Palpatine gets his soul into one of the Chitauri on the mothership.

[Darth Yoshi]

If he could do that, he'd have done so at Endor, rather than fleeing to Byss to possess one of his clones.

[The Imperator]

If he could do that, he'd have done so at Endor, rather than fleeing to Byss to possess one of his clones.

Yeah, A) that idea had not been thought up yet, and B) it is stated in Dark Empire that he had never actaully done the soul thing before at that time, so he took a long time to get back. After that, he was able to quickly possess new bodies. So if this is post DE Palpatine, I can see him doing to soul thing.

[DudeGuyMan]

Shields don't stop the force. Someone mashes up the tesseract machine with telekinesis and the portal closes before most of the bullshit comes through. With the situation less dire, the creepy council never launches the nuke.

[Stofsk]

Shields don't stop the force.

How do you know that, when we see plenty of examples of shielding preventing use of the force: Why didn't Qui-gon and Obi-wan use the force to defeat those two Droidekas in TPM? Why didn't Maul use something like force choke on Obi-wan when there was that shield barrier between them at the end? Why didn't Obi-wan escape his force field manacles in AotC?

[AMT]

I see either a) The Chitauri massing fire like they did against the Hulk, except unlike the Hulk, the Jedi don't survive or
b) Loki takes them out one at a time via a combination of illusions, staff mind control, or superior strength and durability.

Except of course that Palpatine can simply force storm them away. Yes, I see the OPs Jedi/Sith roster losing, but it won't be that easy, especially if Palpatine gets his soul into one of the Chitauri on the mothership.

If the Chitarui even have souls.
Since they died when disconnected from the mothership it could be reasoned that they were just mindless/soulless automatons.
That or the mothership just had a "kill switch" that destroying it activated.

It being a central control ala Phantom Menace seems more logical however.
And since we're not trying to do OP stuff Wankatine powers should be discarded. Such as Force Storm, or post Endor stuff honestly.

Hell for ease I'd just say use the movie versions of all since the comic Chitarui are MUCH more advanced than the movie version. The ultimates version could possibly even be a full on match for SW level firepower at its wankiest.

I won't say anything on the shields since Stofsk replied on that

[Ted C]

Shields don't stop the force.

How do you know that, when we see plenty of examples of shielding preventing use of the force: Why didn't Qui-gon and Obi-wan use the force to defeat those two Droidekas in TPM? Why didn't Maul use something like force choke on Obi-wan when there was that shield barrier between them at the end? Why didn't Obi-wan escape his force field manacles in AotC?

Why didn't Obi-wan use the Force to assist Qui-gonn when he was on his own against Darth Maul on the other side of the last force field?

There seems to be a good bit of "anecdotal evidence" for shields/force fields somehow interfering with Force abilities.

[Stofsk]

Yeah, or in RotS where Obi-wan and Anakin get trapped by a forcefield and Obi-wan infamously said 'Wait a minute! We're smarter than this!'

[Skywalker]

I'd say they could do it(I don't think which Jedi/Sith you choose is all that relevant, they all have mostly the same powers), although they lack the versatility of the Avengers, who's powers and knowledge vary and compliment each other.

[Solauren]

Actually, in the ROTS novel, in response to Droideka's, Anakin and Obi-wan picked them up and then dropped them on their shields. This causes them to burn out their own shield generators, and get sliced up by Anakin and Obi-wan.
There are other examples, including
... the original Jorus C'boath Force Choking Thrawn at a considerable distance
... the Emperor (and the clone C'boath) using Battle Mediatation while co-ordinating forces involved in combat.
... Battle Meditation period
... Vader force choking Ozwal in ESB (unless the Empire was stupid enough to approach a rebel base without their shields up).

The reason the Sith and Jedi don't use the Force against Shielded opponents that often has to be stupidity.


The Force works through shields.