Dr Who S33 episode 6: The Bells of Saint John [Spoilers]

[NecronLord]

Well no one seems to have created a dedicated thread, so I will: 5: 4/5 with a bonus point for the Doctor doing the sensible thing at some point and calling UNIT against an earth-based enemy. I found the main antagonist's bit at the end to be rather sad though; which is rather a good thing as it actually worked.

The Great Intelligence seems linked in some way to the Mystery of Oswin, does anyone else get that impression?

[Captain Seafort]

The Great Intelligence seems linked in some way to the Mystery of Oswin, does anyone else get that impression?

I think it was all but explicitly stated. I'm also interested in seeing what role, if any, Amy or her book is going play.

And it's about bloody time his face was back in the titles.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Pretty good. I rather liked his twist on the usual "walk in and threaten the bad guys" approach. I'm still not interested in the mystery of Clara but I'll keep watching since she's pretty. The fate of the main antagonist was a little "oh man that's fucked up." Nice to see UNIT again if only briefly.

Wasn't the Great Intelligence the bunch behind the Yeti attack in Troughton's run?

[Darksider]

So i'm watching it now, and I have to ask. Is anyone else a little creeped out by the scene where the Doctor puts the unconscious Clara into bed and goes through all her stuff? I'm getting a serious "call the police" vibe from it.

[Iroscato]

Best episode of the series, but it's not like it had much in the way of competition. It managed to be fast-paced without feeling anywhere near as rushed as what I've seen so far, and had a clever plot, good villains and an interesting set-up for the coming story arc.
Also liked the 'Amy Williams' reference, and given the track record of the show, it suggests Amy may return in the future in some form or another.
4/5.

[DarkSilver]

I liked it.

Excellent pacing on the plot, the main antagonist intriguing, and I want to know about this Great Intelligence. It was rather messed up what happened to Ms Kinzmit(sp?) and glad to see the Doctor calling in UNIT to deal with the Shard.

Next week's episode looks interesting also.

Also, what was the Amy Williams reference? i apparently missed it.

[Captain Seafort]

Also, what was the Amy Williams reference? i apparently missed it.

The book they kept coming back to, far too often to just be a passing reference IMO, was "Summer Falls" by Amelia Williams. Aka Amy Pond.

[The Romulan Republic]

I missed the very beginning, but it seemed to start out okay but get shittier later. I don't like the slightly creepy pseudo-romantic relationship between the Doctor and Clara, I didn't like the ending, and I despised seeing the Doctor use mind-control on innocent people just like the villain to win again. It wasn't quite as horrific this time as in Day of the Moon, but it still pissed me off.

Edit: sadly, it was probably one of the best episodes this season.

[DarkSilver]

I missed the very beginning, but it seemed to start out okay but get shittier later. I don't like the slightly creepy pseudo-romantic relationship between the Doctor and Clara, I didn't like the ending, and I despised seeing the Doctor use mind-control on innocent people just like the villain to win again. It wasn't quite as horrific this time as in Day of the Moon, but it still pissed me off.

Edit: sadly, it was probably one of the best episodes this season.

The Doctor didn't use Mind Control on anyone - he used one of those Wireless Hub Robots things disguised to LOOK like him - he hacked it. The only time he could have used "mind control" was when he used the remote to make the guy Obedient to the woman's "Download me" so he could free Clara and the others from the Cloud-mind-thing. In fact, it was pretty much the ONLY way to free everyone.

[The Romulan Republic]

He did use it on that woman's subordinate.

I don't know weather there was any other way he could have got the guy to do it.

[Styphon]

Anyone else get the distinct impression that Moffat has no clue how wi-fi (or any form of radio waves, for that matter) actually works? Cause the whole hacking people through wi-fi thing was just too much for my suspension of disbelief.

[Vaporous]

It's not really any different from the Master hypnotizing people with cellphones or the Cybermen conquering Alterna-Earth with blue-tooth earphones. It was dumb, but not unforgivably dumb. Or, not any dumber than usual.

[Broomstick]

So i'm watching it now, and I have to ask. Is anyone else a little creeped out by the scene where the Doctor puts the unconscious Clara into bed and goes through all her stuff? I'm getting a serious "call the police" vibe from it.

I missed the very beginning, but it seemed to start out okay but get shittier later. I don't like the slightly creepy pseudo-romantic relationship between the Doctor and Clara, I didn't like the ending, and I despised seeing the Doctor use mind-control on innocent people just like the villain to win again.

About halfway through I started getting creeped out what with watching it over my wifi enabled computer in the middle of the night in the dark... but at least I felt safe to keep blinking, unlike another episode I could name.

Clara seemed to be assuming a certain man+woman vibe, but I saw the Doctor putting her to bed as more of a fatherly gesture. It's a bit difficult for Matt Smith to pull off given his youthful appearance (he still looks like jailbait to me) but that, and when he strokes her hair in the cafe, both looked more fatherly than romantic to me. He wants to defend and take care of her, not necessarily date her (she, of course, might have other thoughts).

The other thing I found notable was that what he did in the airplane actually was how you get out of a dive if you aren't too particular about fine details and finesse rather than the random flailing about you often seen when actors "pilot" an airplane, and which I half expected from this Doctor. I'm a bit doubtful you would pull back quite that much at that speed, but I'm willing to allow for some dramatic liberty (actually, with this show, a lot)

One of the things I liked best about this episode it was more about the Doctor using intellect to defeat the enemy and not just asspulling something at the last minute (admittedly, there were some minor asspulls of that sort, such as motorcycle drives up side of building). He used the adversary's own tech against him.

The final creepiness, though, was Ms. Whatsit restoring "factory settings" - between the little girl personality and her apparent physical age she had obviously spent a lifetime laboring for the Great Intelligence and it took her from malevolent to pitiful.

[Styphon]

Those are both of the things I thought of when yelling at the screen about how to do what this episode was trying to do ("human bodies are ridiculously permeable to radio waves, at least give them a Bluetooth headset or something to receive the signal!"), so I guess we just see things differently.

[Haruko]

Was hoping the 'Mystery of Clara' thing was solved this episode. Also wish that 'epic' song, in all its variations, would go away. And die. For good. Not sure the Clara companionship will feel much different from the last few. That said, as a fan who has watched even a lot of the old series, I was not anywhere near awe of the episode, but I did not think it bad either. 3.

[musicalaviator]

The other thing I found notable was that what he did in the airplane actually was how you get out of a dive if you aren't too particular about fine details and finesse rather than the random flailing about you often seen when actors "pilot" an airplane, and which I half expected from this Doctor. I'm a bit doubtful you would pull back quite that much at that speed, but I'm willing to allow for some dramatic liberty (actually, with this show, a lot)

Not quite sure how fast it was going, but the cockpit was a 737-300 and some interesting observations I made of the cockpit is: Gear was down indicating 3 green, Fuel pumps were showing low pressure (Possibly the switches were in the off position) and the Anti-Skid not functioning warning light was on, the Engine driven generators were off (blue light on) with the APU Generator connected. Hydraulics showed Auxiliary pump 2 on and running, but Auxiliary 1 turned off and the main pumps 1 & 2 also off or not functioning (Same indication lights happen). The IRS was off or malfunctioning. In the "pulling the yoke back" shot, the airspeed indicator seemed to show the "barber pole" Max airspeed at around 340KIAS for that altitude. There was a solid white line at the 300knot mark that I'm not familiar with which might suggest the aircraft is doing 300 knots airspeed. That said I reccon it might have been 'put there' because all the other indications on the airspeed indicator suggest 0 knots airspeed.

EPR showed engine delivering no thrust (or idle) - EGT showed a temp around 200 to 300 degrees C.

If I walked into a cockpit and saw this airborne I would not be having a nice day. - I suspect filming was done at a proper flight training simulator, probably at British Airways or similar. Windows covered up with "Green screen" and the cockpit configured as if it was on the ground, recently shut down as if it just arrived at the airport, and the engines had been turned off. I say that because if it was "Ready for start after a flight overnight" the EGT would be much lower. Not sure if the Airspeed "white line" was added as an effect, or a sticker, or is just a random reflection.

[Korto]

I'm sick to death of that bloody omni-purpose magic arse-pull device, once known as the sonic screwdriver.
I liked that the end resolution was a totally reasonable subterfuge, instead of that bloody screwdriver. It was also nice that he called UNIT. The ending earned it a 4.

Darksider - Going through Clara's stuff after putting her to bed seems totally reasonable, given the circumstances. After all, there's a mystery about her, he's looking for clues. Would you be surprised if the police, assuming they were trying to find out something about her, went through her belongings? He's also fucking nosy; but that's necessary in his line of business.

Romulan Republic - That mind control upset you? I'm as much for sanctity of the mind as the next guy, but frankly, they opened the door, and to use another cliché, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. It was a quick use of a dirty tactic that freed everyone bloodlessly. He would have been putting idealism above people's lives to have hunted for another way.
And which innocent people are you talking about him using it on? The guy whose only objection to killing people and trapping their minds in some net-prison was "we're doing too many, we might get caught"?

Broomstick - Didn't mind the motorbike. He got it from the TARDIS (not just some random bike he used that fucking screwdriver on), and there's no reason someone with a time machine shouldn't have an anti-grav bike.
This probably doesn't need to be said, but I felt what everyone went back to wasn't a "factory setting", but a back-up of their mind just at the point they were inducted.

On another subject - I wouldn't mind an actual real proper love interest/relationship for the Doctor. I would prefer it be with someone who looks more mature than these girls, but if they're over the age of consent, in the end it's their business. So with this Clara girl? Fine. I could live with her looking barely out of nappies just for an end to the constant teenage teasing. Just have a proper fucking relationship, and get on with it.

[ray245]

On another subject - I wouldn't mind an actual real proper love interest/relationship for the Doctor. I would prefer it be with someone who looks more mature than these girls, but if they're over the age of consent, in the end it's their business. So with this Clara girl? Fine. I could live with her looking barely out of nappies just for an end to the constant teenage teasing. Just have a proper fucking relationship, and get on with it.

River says hi.

The more interesting is who is the woman who gave Clara the doctor's number. River Song?

[Eternal_Freedom]

It's a small thing, but I did find the TARDIS landing magic trick bit rather amusing. Especially since people hardly ever notice the thing when it's landed.

And yes, I'm also annoyed with the "young female companion falling for the Doctor" thing. Sigh. On the other hand, I didn't get the vibe that Clara was actually interested romantically but rather wanted to travel, so I'll see how it plays out.

I would say it would be nice to have a solo male companion for once, I don't think the show has ever done that before.

[Captain Seafort]

I would say it would be nice to have a solo male companion for once, I don't think the show has ever done that before.

I think there were a few short stints with just Jamie and Two or Turlough and Five.

[Korto]

Ray, you call that a relationship? The whole "reverse directions through time" thing tends to screw with your plans for the weekend. Anyway, all I remember seeing was yet more angsty teasing.

[Rossum]

I give it a 4, though that could just be me being starved for new Doctor Who episodes.

Didn't like the opening bit with the guy warning about the Wi-Fi. Felt like it spoiled a big chunk of the "mystery" of the episode. I mean, that looked a lot like the Doctors warning from Blink and got me thinking that the Weeping Angels (or something like them) had gotten into the internet and where stealing people through the screen (Damm that would have been scary!).

But it kinda ruined it because that guy was already taken, there's no evidence he could relay that warning to anyone, and he didn't show up in the episode itself.

Plus, having those bits of decending computer code appearing on the screen like some kind of Matrix/CSI homage just didn't work for me.

The "Spoonheads" or relay androids were pretty nice for a Doctor Who monster. I can see potential for them appearing in a future story with some work. Could even join the Weeping Angels or Autons in the "creepy things that disguise themselves and eat your soul" club.

The Doctors solution at the end was well done. Using the robot was clever and his using the forced-mind-uploading and mind control used the bad guys tools to end it in a bloodless manner. Plus, the boss lady had her damm mind control thing as an iPod app laying on her desk! That is so many kinds of messed up its not even funny. They're just lucky she didn't spill coffee on the thing and send her underlings into a violent murder/suicide spree.

So he found their mind control app, used it to free all the poor souls trapped in the cloud (before her underling decided to just feed her to their "client" and give himself a promotion) and called UNIT so they can clean up the huge mess this represents.

I mean, considering that the lady was mind controlling random people for giggles to hold a conversation, and the thing she was using was an app on an iPad (or whatever), the fact the Doctor didn't just blow up the building and everyone inside to end this crap was admirable.

Having the bad guys get their memories erased at the end just added that much more horror to the situation. Seems the Great Intellect can just mind control himself some new minions and set up shop again.

As for the mind control and how it worked, I gotta agree that they should at least have had some bluetooth headsets or smartphones to control them. Its not so scary when it just looks like some cyber-imp runs around possessing people with wi-fi magic with nothing to look at. Thats like Jaws where the shark is completely invisible, can fly, and eats people in one gulp while they're chilling in their hotel room. At least give us a "shark fin" to worry about or say "stay away from the water!"

As for Clara, I'm kinda dissapointed that she didn't die in this episode. Not that I hate her, just that the whole mystery behind her is that she died twice already in different time periods. Okay, maybe she doesn't have to die but it would be nice if she didn't turn into another companion to drag around. You know, maybe he leaves this Clara to enjoy her life, then heads on his adventure only to find that another incarnation of her already exists at his destination. Like she travels the universe by virtue of being reincarnated across time and space or something. That would be interesting.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another River Song thing where it turns out the Great Intellect gave her the L33t hax0r skills she used to brainwash the Daleks and the lady at the shop is that horrid eyepatch woman back from the dead.

All in all, good episode with some cool new monsters and adversarys. Just wish the mind control thing was a bit more... limited. I mean controlling people with just wi-fi with no need for extra doodads? If the Cybermen (or anyone else) had gotten their mits on that damm iPad we'd have a frikkin disaster on our hands.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ok so a number of interesting things...

The Doctor "being the Doctor" again without being TOO silly. Plenty of good spontanious moments in this ep. The "Magic Trick" with the TARDIS was nice when he got money for breakfast. (an interesting point since it is noted the Doctor never caries money with him)
Using the groups Mind Control Robot aginst them was also a wonderful touch, and I didn't see it coming till it said in the show. Which was GREAT because the whole time I was thinking "He is rushing in all by himself and will most likely get captured or something!" so for once it was nice to be wrong.
Also as others have said, including UNIT was boss. Clean up of something like this is Exactly what UNIT is for, and huge props to the writters for thinking of using them, instead of the Doctor doing something "Magic" to wrap up everything.

Unfortinatly the biggest DOWN part of the Ep was the end.
That YET AGAIN we have another "modern" aged person in the show.
We got teased with 'Future' Oswin, and then got teased by 'Past' Oswin. And then we get stuck with 'Preasent' Oswin.

All of time and space to goto, and the Doctor (aka the writters) seem to have no real imagination.

[AMT]

It's a small thing, but I did find the TARDIS landing magic trick bit rather amusing. Especially since people hardly ever notice the thing when it's landed.

And yes, I'm also annoyed with the "young female companion falling for the Doctor" thing. Sigh. On the other hand, I didn't get the vibe that Clara was actually interested romantically but rather wanted to travel, so I'll see how it plays out.

I would say it would be nice to have a solo male companion for once, I don't think the show has ever done that before.

Eh I'm not. But honestly it's not just females... it's those who are attracted to males. Capt Jack anyone?

And why is it surprising that a charismatic not ugly male who saves the world or universe on a regular basis is an object of attraction?

Unfortinatly the biggest DOWN part of the Ep was the end.
That YET AGAIN we have another "modern" aged person in the show.
We got teased with 'Future' Oswin, and then got teased by 'Past' Oswin. And then we get stuck with 'Preasent' Oswin.

All of time and space to goto, and the Doctor (aka the writters) seem to have no real imagination.

Orrr..... the companions are there to help provide exposition from a 21st century perspective for those who aren't sci fi geeks who may not get things, so contemporary companions are the norm

[Themightytom]

Eh it was watchable. The beginning was pretty stupid "THE INTERNET IS STEALING SOULS!"
The doctor is unnecessarily in 1207, moping in Victorian England wasn't good enough? Whatever....

Clara can't get her internet working, seeeeriously? So she gets a random number from a woman in a shop, because sure, that's how you call tech support.

When discussing the book Clara says
"Eleven's the best"
sigh.

The woman in the shop sounds like it's Amy, but who knows.

The Fez is used several times, ok we get it, fezzes are cool can we honestly devote SOME time to events here? We already burned daylight setting up the Doctor in the monastery just so that he could leave.

Instant hacker/soul saver is kind of cool, as the doctor appears only to need to type on the bottom two rows of the lap top in order to out program Umbrella Corporation.

"Under my protection- the Doctor"

OK, so we're not keeping a low profile anymore? The whole fake your own death was what again??

The Doctor's habit of being of the wall crazy is just unhygenic in the coffee shop where he's picking up food and putting it back, sure buddy just waste food that's cool, not a small business or anything.

"I never bring by ship into battle" ooookay sure you don't.

The spoon switch was a good trick, made possible by the apparent absence of any kill switch or other feature by the company that operates them, and now there's a tablet lying around that can hack a man's mind.