Interdimensional diplomat (RAR)

[Agent Sorchus]

The exact dimensions are not important.
...
Looking back, this is interesting- why does the author expect our perspective to be human-centric?

Yeah that is why I started with the DS9 thing. It's really minor and nitpicky, but I consider it part of the problem with this simplistic setup. And see below...

The point of using a space station size is to imply that most tech you want to trade can fit through this dimensional portal you create. Well except Death star size space stations.

I was initially going to say a Star ship can fit through, but some Star ships are simply much bigger than others, so I thought lets go with a space station to be on the safe side.

Well wouldn't it be more interesting to see what would be the smallest piece of tech that would transform a single universe and single crisis the most drastically? Rather then worry about the exchange itself (since there is no guarantee any given entity will be willing to trade, ie the federation getting all Janeway over giving out replicator tech to other worlds.) Besides that I'm hesitant to say that tech alone will be enough rather than the knowledge of how to use it effectively, hell allot of sci-fi problems are just an issue of people not looking at the tech they already have.

Lets give an example of that last. Schlock mercenary an otherwise award winning scifi webcomic has a very basic issue with the entire fleetmind plot that came up recently. They have a ZPM, and even then have issues with having enough raw Joules to do any-everything they want. The problem is the core technology that is the basis for the webcomic (the Teraport drive) as seen at almost it's very debut is a matter energy conversion device that should logically kick the shit out of a ZPM at providing peak power. BUT no-one in universe has thought of that or they'd be intergalactic emperor in 3 minutes. Obviously the author has that same blindspot but hell I know it isn't the only 'verse where in-'verse tech solves their problems if implemented differently. (Schlock just has it at such a fundamental level that I almost refuse to go back to it.)

To be honest I chose humans mainly because most of the fan fiction crossovers I like reading involved human polities. Plus we are obviously the dominant race in sci fi across the multiverse. Because we appear in almost all science fiction.

Realy doesn't incentives me to go out and help these 'verses does it? I actually would refuse to help any 'verse like that Star Carrier series recently mentioned on these forums cause of that stupid human-centric viewpoint that is just slightly cammo'd American jingoism. And there are others where there is no such thing as helping humans cause a) thats all there is in 'verse and b) the entire point of the story is the moral ambiguity of all sides. No point in even getting involved.

No it doesn't actually. Because in these type of RAR scenarios there is always some poster who thinks they are smart enough to "cheat" the scenario. Instead of fighting it, I want to see what tech they can come up with to beat the scenario. So if you get home without facilitating trade, the "omnipotent" being isn't going to punish you for it.

Again my big problem is the scenario really isn't asking to be beat. I have no reason to go back home and spend the 14ish millenniums worth of life this very scenario gives me on this backwards hate filled world of worthless scum and villainy. At least in some of these fictional worlds there are such things as true heroes that don't get dumped in a ditch somewhere. Hell yeah am I a cynic.

Oh, I was hoping people won't try to use "magic" as advance science too much because I actually want to do a RAR involving fantasy worlds where magic is used, as well this RAR which involves sci fi franchises.

The big thing with Nanoha is just how sci-fi it is. You have spaceships, inter-dimensional-space stations, Robots, cyborgs, transporters, supercomputers that synchronize telepathically with their user to increase their native abilities and do remote calculations for them all while being seemingly fully sentient themselves, and the native abilities of those users are called magic despite being testable and upgraded by technological means.

Calling it fantasy is to ignore all of it's sophistication.

And hell a lot of conflicts in sci fi have at their heart a fantastic origin. Which is why I went to the first jedi schism, since helping the legions of Lettow means the Sith are far less likely to develop into what they became. (Since it prevents the second jedi schism that sent the dark jedi to the sith homeworld, and the Legions attitude is more about harmonizing all force traditions rather than just those from Typhon.)

[Simon_Jester]

Lets give an example of that last. Schlock mercenary an otherwise award winning scifi webcomic has a very basic issue with the entire fleetmind plot that came up recently. They have a ZPM, and even then have issues with having enough raw Joules to do any-everything they want. The problem is the core technology that is the basis for the webcomic (the Teraport drive) as seen at almost it's very debut is a matter energy conversion device that should logically kick the shit out of a ZPM at providing peak power. BUT no-one in universe has thought of that or they'd be intergalactic emperor in 3 minutes. Obviously the author has that same blindspot but hell I know it isn't the only 'verse where in-'verse tech solves their problems if implemented differently. (Schlock just has it at such a fundamental level that I almost refuse to go back to it.)

Sometimes there's a reason why an 'obvious' application of a technology or technique wouldn't work in real life; I can think of several here, the simplest one being that the energy extracted from mass in a teraport cannot automatically be used for 'just anything.' By analogy, when you explode gunpowder there is an energy release. That does not make it feasible to construct an internal combustion engine, or electric generator, that is powered by a stream of exploding gunpowder. Energy is released, but can't be channeled 'just any way.'

Also, for crying out loud they already power everything by total conversion of neutronium stored in those big blue spherical reactors; they HAVE matter-to-energy technology. It's not obvious that the teraport somehow revolutionizes the ability to do this.

[Formless]

Simon, as someone who has been reading that comic for years, that pathetic gunpowder analogy simply does not work. The terraport system powers ITSELF. The most precise application of energy imaginable, the literal deconstruction and reconstruction of objects at the molecular (if not atomic) level. As compared to a gun... which needs only focus as much kinetic energy as possible in one direction. Apples and oranges. No, scratch that. Apples and glass beads. The only reason they don't apply the process to larger scale objects for large scale energy use is... oh, wait. They totally did that one time when the Dark Matter aliens were introduced and the Terraport turned out to be a useful weapon against them. One which consumed entire starships (including the protagonists' ship) at the climax of the arc. And somehow it never occurs to the super-AI Character PeTey that he could use this source of energy, when there is a whole galaxy of unused matter lying around him. Its just a plot hole, period.

And no, the nutronium thing is bullshit too. They have to MAKE nutronium to be consumed in reactors, using energy to basically make a high output battery; like antimatter batteries in other works. Using the terraport the way Sorchus proposes would be more akin to having Mr Fusion devices that can be powered on literal garbage.

[Simon_Jester]

Simon, as someone who has been reading that comic for years, that pathetic gunpowder analogy simply does not work. The terraport system powers ITSELF. The most precise application of energy imaginable, the literal deconstruction and reconstruction of objects at the molecular (if not atomic) level. As compared to a gun... which needs only focus as much kinetic energy as possible in one direction.

Since we have no idea how nanoscopic wormholes are generated, we have no idea how the energy used to create them is extracted. Maybe each individual wormhole automatically consumes a few subatomic particles, the functional equivalent of a toll, as the price of its creation.

That doesn't mean you can use the teraport to charge your batteries. You seem to be conflating the teraport (which explicitly works by screwing with spacetime so that a particle that starts "here" winds up "there") with 'matter-to-energy' teleporters like the transporter pads in Star Trek.

No, the teraport does not turn the whole mass of an object into energy in the process of moving it, and there is no evidence that the energy it DOES extract from total conversion of matter can be used for anything other than powering teraports.

I get that you have a preconceived notion of how this works, but we have absolutely zero in-setting evidence that it 'should' work that way.

Apples and oranges. No, scratch that. Apples and glass beads. The only reason they don't apply the process to larger scale objects for large scale energy use is... oh, wait. They totally did that one time when the Dark Matter aliens were introduced and the Terraport turned out to be a useful weapon against them. One which consumed entire starships (including the protagonists' ship) at the climax of the arc.

You didn't read that arc closely, did you? The ships lost in battle against the dark matter entities were NOT destroyed by being converted from matter into energy, nor did the dark matter entities do that to the protagonist' ships or any other ships. The ships lost in action were presumably destroyed by the same kind of thing that allowed the new Paanuri at Oisri to destroy the battleplate Morokweng.

And somehow it never occurs to the super-AI Character PeTey that he could use this source of energy, when there is a whole galaxy of unused matter lying around him. Its just a plot hole, period.

I'm sorry, but you are quite simply dead wrong about this, you're fooling yourself. You're berating the author for not having a certain technology, when he has literally told you in so many words that the technology exists.

And no, the nutronium thing is bullshit too. They have to MAKE nutronium to be consumed in reactors, using energy to basically make a high output battery; like antimatter batteries in other works. Using the terraport the way Sorchus proposes would be more akin to having Mr Fusion devices that can be powered on literal garbage.

Um... please know that "neutronium" is spelled, well, the way I spell it. There is an 'e' in that letter, I'm really not putting it in there as a pretentiousness thing, that is the actual spelling of the word.

Also, you're missing the point that they clearly have total conversion technology, they use it in annie plants. The technology of converting normal matter into energy en masse isn't used for some reason, but the reason obviously isn't "it doesn't exist" or "we're too stupid/ignorant to think of it."



Although overall, there's a basic fallacy here- you're assuming that by default your cleverness will let you think of things that nobody in a fictional setting does. So if you see people in a setting NOT doing something, and you think it 'logically' must be possible, you assume it must be because they're stupid. It seems not even to occur to you that maybe it wouldn't work in that setting, or that the author considered it and ruled it out for perfectly good reasons.

I don't know if there's a word for "assuming that other people would do exactly what you expect if only they were smart like you," but it's cartoonishly wrong to operate that way when you think about it.

[mr friendly guy]

Back to 40K, question for the OP, mr. Friendly Guy, what restrictions exist on our trading? Do we have to be open and relatively aboveboard? I'm assuming I can't just loot 40K for technical knowledge, then claim the traded data and technologies are recently discovered STC data?

Generally the same as if the two polities were in the same universe, met and negotiated a trade. So stealing doesn't count. I assumed it was obvious when you trade tech you would also come with teaching the other side how it works, the physics behind it etc. I know RL doesn't necessarily work like this, but this is x-over fiction damn it. Also don't forget the most important thing - both sides must benefit such a way to overcome the turmoil they are experiencing.

[mr friendly guy]

Well wouldn't it be more interesting to see what would be the smallest piece of tech that would transform a single universe and single crisis the most drastically?

To some people maybe, but not to me. What I was trying to do is a scenario where the two sides sort of team up. Or rather you are the mediator which allows tech transfer and this helps each side of the exchange so they sort of "team up."

Rather then worry about the exchange itself (since there is no guarantee any given entity will be willing to trade, ie the federation getting all Janeway over giving out replicator tech to other worlds.) Besides that I'm hesitant to say that tech alone will be enough rather than the knowledge of how to use it effectively, hell allot of sci-fi problems are just an issue of people not looking at the tech they already have.

I had assumed that knowledge would go with the tech as with these fan fiction x-overs. I know this isn't what happens in real life with tech trade, but that's how I am doing it.

Now some sides may be reluctant to trade, eg the UFP. Generally its less of an issue because you trade with another FTL capable civilisation - see Voyager was quite willing to do so. In any event if there is a problem, Jedi mind trick. Although I must admit even self righteous smucks like the UFP would be willing to trade for technology if their back is on the wall. You might disagree, but generally the scenario is structured such that each polity is in turmoil and if the tech can be shown to save them, then generally humans in fiction being similar to humans in RL, would take the deal.

Now I had not thought about one side getting the tech and using it more effectively than the original side. So that's a possibility. Generally my examples had both sides using it the same manner as the other side does it, and that being sufficient to overcome the problems each polity is facing.

Realy doesn't incentives me to go out and help these 'verses does it? I actually would refuse to help any 'verse like that Star Carrier series recently mentioned on these forums cause of that stupid human-centric viewpoint that is just slightly cammo'd American jingoism. And there are others where there is no such thing as helping humans cause a) thats all there is in 'verse and b) the entire point of the story is the moral ambiguity of all sides. No point in even getting involved.

Sure. There is no need per the OP to help every single sci fi setting with humans you can think of. Which is why some people say they won't help 40 K unless the GEoM gives them a good reason to. Also even in verses where humans are all there is, surely there are more than one human polity, so there is still plenty of choice.

Again my big problem is the scenario really isn't asking to be beat. I have no reason to go back home and spend the 14ish millenniums worth of life this very scenario gives me on this backwards hate filled world of worthless scum and villainy. At least in some of these fictional worlds there are such things as true heroes that don't get dumped in a ditch somewhere. Hell yeah am I a cynic.

I figure most people would want to go back to love ones. However I can clarify / modify the scenario to say once you are taken home, you get the option of losing your powers, or to continue your interdimensional travel with the ability to get back to your home universe any time you want via a homing device omnipotent being gives you. So you can become like the Doctor.

The big thing with Nanoha is just how sci-fi it is. You have spaceships, inter-dimensional-space stations, Robots, cyborgs, transporters, supercomputers that synchronize telepathically with their user to increase their native abilities and do remote calculations for them all while being seemingly fully sentient themselves, and the native abilities of those users are called magic despite being testable and upgraded by technological means.

Calling it fantasy is to ignore all of it's sophistication.

Obviously its hard for me to gauge this franchise is like this without seeing it, to see whether its better classified as fantasy or sci fi. I am aware of course of science fantasy, and I suspect in some of these franchise the lines are blurred. However I would argue Spelljammer is fantasy despite having spaceships, er I mean spelljamming ships. Again I admit the "sci fi" part is purely thematic on my part, because I want to also do a fantasy RAR in the future where they exchange knowledge of magic to save the day.

And hell a lot of conflicts in sci fi have at their heart a fantastic origin. Which is why I went to the first jedi schism, since helping the legions of Lettow means the Sith are far less likely to develop into what they became. (Since it prevents the second jedi schism that sent the dark jedi to the sith homeworld, and the Legions attitude is more about harmonizing all force traditions rather than just those from Typhon.)

Given that a lot of fiction plots have similar structures regardless of whether its fantasy, sci fi or other, I don't consider a conflict having a fantastic origin useful to classify whether its fantasy or sci fi.

[Simon_Jester]

How can you possibly guarantee that the benefits will allow them to overcome a crisis?

Just handing, say, the 40k Imperium a bigger gun doesn't mean they'll automatically be able to defeat Chaos, the Tyranids, and all their other enemies after all. It might help, but even so, the natives' ability to win a war is not purely a function of the technology you hand them. It also depends on how they use that technology.

Also, it depends on how effective their local enemy is at capturing it and putting it to use. For instance, if you were on the 'bad guy' side, Boskone, in the Lensman setting, and you hand them superior technology... well, it's like I said a few years back: "Leave your starship in a parking orbit, and the Patrol will have it up on cinder blocks in five minutes, the wheels off in ten, a reverse-engineered set of blueprints by the weekend, and an upgraded version of your own weapons by next Tuesday. "

[mr friendly guy]

How can you possibly guarantee that the benefits will allow them to overcome a crisis?

The poster has to justify it of course. Just like how if I said the Federation magically got an SSD and the know how, logistics to supply it etc it would whip the Borg Cube that invaded UFP territory because of ICS II says 200 GT for the win. Or that a Borg cube would have no initial defense against a B5 jump point opening in it and so if the UFP had that technology they would also win against the first Borg Cube.

Generally if you pick a scenario where the Federation was going to win anyway, eg the Dominion war, its easier to justify that superior military tech would allow it to win quicker.

Just handing, say, the 40k Imperium a bigger gun doesn't mean they'll automatically be able to defeat Chaos, the Tyranids, and all their other enemies after all. It might help, but even so, the natives' ability to win a war is not purely a function of the technology you hand them. It also depends on how they use that technology.

Correct, but its a fair bet that they will handle it at least the same way the polity that traded them they technology would use it.

Also, it depends on how effective their local enemy is at capturing it and putting it to use. For instance, if you were on the 'bad guy' side, Boskone, in the Lensman setting, and you hand them superior technology... well, it's like I said a few years back: "Leave your starship in a parking orbit, and the Patrol will have it up on cinder blocks in five minutes, the wheels off in ten, a reverse-engineered set of blueprints by the weekend, and an upgraded version of your own weapons by next Tuesday. "

Then obviously you have to justify why the "good guys" would still win with your tech exchange.