Please disregard my previous post. Here's what I wanted to say:
Overall I thought it was a pretty good movie. There were a few points that I found kinda silly: Spoiler
1. When we see Murphy after the accident, he is mostly intact, (sans both legs and 1 arm), yet they only salvage his head/neck, lungs, heart and right hand - his right ARM was replaced with a robotic one, yet they kept the hand!?
2. They gave Robocop a literal kill switch - they flick a switch, and he drops to the floor, shut off.
3. While Keaton's character was certainly selfish and profit-driven, his behavior at the end of threatening Murphy's wife & kid seemed out of character - especially since he wasn't responsible for Murphy getting "killed" like Bob Morton was in the original, (if you recall, he was responsible for moving officers around to get them killed and into the program). At most, Robocop could try to bring OmniCorp to court for messing with his free will and such.
4. Did I mention the real hand... at the end of a robot arm!?
5. Early on, it is revealed that Murphy, when directly controlling the body, just isn't fast enough to compete with the full drones. Their solution is to have the software completely take over while in combat situation. If that's the case, and it is assumed to be the same software driving the humanoid ED-208 drones, then why is Robocop so much better than them?
6. They decide to do a massive database upload of the complete police database minutes before Robocop is to give a big presentation/be revealed to the world - of course he freaks out when he sees the security footage of his own bombing, and they decide to drug him up and let the software run him for said presentation... really!?
7. Murphy knows who he is right from the start, and they slowly remove more and more of his humanity as the story goes on. It's an interesting take on the concept, but I find it less compelling, since Murphy gets blown up, gets rebuilt, comes home, gets to see his wife & kid, THEN only freaks out when he sees the footage of the explosion that "killed" him...
biostem wrote:Please disregard my previous post. Here's what I wanted to say:
Overall I thought it was a pretty good movie. There were a few points that I found kinda silly: Spoiler
1. When we see Murphy after the accident, he is mostly intact, (sans both legs and 1 arm), yet they only salvage his head/neck, lungs, heart and right hand - his right ARM was replaced with a robotic one, yet they kept the hand!?
I think they mention he has 4th degree burns over 80% of his body, its likely that means most of his skin is totally gone, I can believe that they could only salvage some of his organs. The hand was silly though particularly with it just hovering there when they remove the cybernetics.
2. They gave Robocop a literal kill switch - they flick a switch, and he drops to the floor, shut off.
That made perfect sense to me, he's a prototype they have no idea if he'll work so yeah a way to shut him down is very useful.
3. While Keaton's character was certainly selfish and profit-driven, his behavior at the end of threatening Murphy's wife & kid seemed out of character - especially since he wasn't responsible for Murphy getting "killed" like Bob Morton was in the original, (if you recall, he was responsible for moving officers around to get them killed and into the program). At most, Robocop could try to bring OmniCorp to court for messing with his free will and such.
Yeah, I guess they needed to give us a reason to hate him more.
4. Did I mention the real hand... at the end of a robot arm!?
See above.
5. Early on, it is revealed that Murphy, when directly controlling the body, just isn't fast enough to compete with the full drones. Their solution is to have the software completely take over while in combat situation. If that's the case, and it is assumed to be the same software driving the humanoid ED-208 drones, then why is Robocop so much better than them?
I assumed that Robocop has better hardware and software than the run of the mill drones, he's the next version up so is generally better than them. One of the things I hated was that they brought up the 'fake free will' idea and then go nowhere with it, its a fascinating concept but after they introduce it it's never mentioned again.
6. They decide to do a massive database upload of the complete police database minutes before Robocop is to give a big presentation/be revealed to the world - of course he freaks out when he sees the security footage of his own bombing, and they decide to drug him up and let the software run him for said presentation... really!?
That was dumb why do it then. Why even use Robocop, why not download that stuff into a separate computer, I suppose it was supposed to be the human element solving all the crimes but it didn't really seem that way.
7. Murphy knows who he is right from the start, and they slowly remove more and more of his humanity as the story goes on. It's an interesting take on the concept, but I find it less compelling, since Murphy gets blown up, gets rebuilt, comes home, gets to see his wife & kid, THEN only freaks out when he sees the footage of the explosion that "killed" him...
Yeah, although it is shown that he's drugged up from the start, they mention pumping anti-depressants into him even before he's zombified.
Some other points I feel should be brought up: Spoiler
1. The whole Dreyfus act deals with the use of lethal drones on US soil. If OmniCorp wanted to get an "in" with the public, where are the household and commercial helper drones? Where are the professional drone sports? They talk about how much money they could make if they can get combat drones approved for use in law enforcement, but that's really a pretty small market compared to things like general purpose robots - janitors, mechanics, etc.
2. As is the case with many near-future movies, other than some flashy holograms or cars, where is the impact in other aspects of life? It's like there was no thought of transhumanism before robocop in this setting. They even go over some potential candidates, and one is a double-amputee athlete - imagine a cyborg Olympics.
3. Was it implied that Murphy was in a coma after the accident? I assume as much, since they had to go to his wife for consent. Anyway, why not repair him to the extent that they could speak to him, and explain the procedure and get his cooperation. If he declined, then they could just spin the whole case as them stepping in to bring him back from the brink of death, and fit him with conventional prosthetics.
4. Since most of his body and limbs were robotic, why not outfit him with an "off duty" chasis so he can better fit in with his family and normal society? It seemed like they had no intentions of separating him from his family permanently, so this approach would be better for his psychological health in the long run...
5. I miss the POV/rebuilding scenes we saw in the original. It was interesting to see a bit of the process from robo's perspective...
6. The news segments with Sam Jackson were neat, but they lacked that kinda worldbuilding effect that the short news segments and commercials provided.
7. I know I harped on this already, but if you're gonna keep the organic hand, why wouldn't they issue him a glove of some sort - I mean, would you want to deal with your newest prototype getting an infection from being stuck from a needle while patting down a perp or a bad cut while performing one of his superhuman leaps?
8. During the initial review of his condition, they mention that he's blind in one eye and deaf - I can accept that they have sythetic replacements that look natural, so is it that the visor contains additional sensors and such that are only accessible when it's down?
Did they keep all the hilarious "CAPITALISM!" skit commercials? I've been wanting a 6000 SUX since I was 5.
You get Samuel L. Jackson as 'Not Bill O'Reilly' on NotFoxNews instead.
I liked this better actually. I cracked up laughing at the blatant propaganda. Is the senate pro crime? (or something to that effect).
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
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Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Overall, I thought that the movie was a worthy successor to the orginal. Trying to simply recreate the original would have been rather pointless for several reasons: first, we already HAVE the original. Second, the original had Veerhoven's personal touch embedded deeply into it. Finally, the world has moved on a bit since the '80s, and keeping the socio-political commentary aspect of the first one means making it relevant to what's on people's minds today.
Sure, it wasn't perfect, but what movie is? I give it a thumbs up.
Now, on to some geeky topics! Spoiler
The kill switch: in my eyes, this is one of the best decisions that Omnicorp made. Even if you leave aside the whole "never call up what you can't put down" thing, you've got a case of someone waking up in an unfamiliar but very powerful body, under circumstances guaranteed to cause emotional turmoil. It's in the patient's best interests to have a way to keep him from hurting himself or anyone else. They should have used it BEFORE he went over the wall, though--what if he'd landed face down in that rice field and drowned?
The real hand: leaving Murphy the ability to touch and feel things with a flesh hand would seem like a boon to his mental stability, keeping him more connected to the world and people around him. From a purely pragmatic perspective, it adds unnecessary vulnerability and weakness. From a human perspective, it's important. From a biomechanical perspective, how does the hand MOVE when most hand muscles are in the forearm which isn't there?
Terrible behavior of Omnicorp CEO: while it does seem like some of that was just because "he's the bad guy", a lot of his unwise and ethically wrong decisions could be seen as viewing Robocop as nothing but an advertising stunt--not even a real product.
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That which will not bend must break and that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm wondering.... Spoiler
They state that the human mind is incapable of keeping up with the machines during combat, so the drone hardware overrides the human... This makes me think, is the limitation one of processing power? As in, is the human brain (hardware) the one not capable of keeping up? Because if that is the case, and the drone hardware can efficiently interface with the human brain.... Why not dump the mind into a fully electronic brain?
Or maybe the implication is that the human mind (software) cannot keep up. That would be an interesting angle for a science fiction story, but I doubt it meshes with the notion of the human spirit overcoming the machine they seem to be going for.
(note that, as I haven't seen the movie yet, I don't know how much of Murphy's brain is integrated into the hardware)
biostem wrote:Some other points I feel should be brought up: Spoiler
4. Since most of his body and limbs were robotic, why not outfit him with an "off duty" chasis so he can better fit in with his family and normal society? It seemed like they had no intentions of separating him from his family permanently, so this approach would be better for his psychological health in the long run...
Thanks for reading!
I have a possible answer to that. Spoiler
They are still working out the bugs in the "duty" chassis. It is unclear if a suitable "off duty" chassis could have been made at the time. (I note that in RoboCop 3, it was possible to make a human-looking android, which implies that, in that setting, it would be feasible to have a cyborg with that sort of robotic body.)
I also note that no one in OmniCorp had any doubts they could keep Murphy alive with the prosthetics. I wonder if that technology had been used before to keep someone gravely wounded (like a soldier wounded in combat) alive?
There was no actual functional problem with the initial setup, which has Murphy fully in control of the body at all times. The problem was that his response time just wasn't able to match the drones, who never hesitated. Keaton's character basically told the lead doctor to "fix it" so he was on par, if not better, than the fully machine drone. The doctor's answer was to basically have the software take over during combat situations, and to provide a feedback system to make Murphy *think* he was the one doing everything.
I also forgot to mention that at one point they do mention that Murphy is using an improved version of the combat software, and that his body was more advanced/higher performance, than the stock drones he was pitted against.
The real hand: leaving Murphy the ability to touch and feel things with a flesh hand would seem like a boon to his mental stability, keeping him more connected to the world and people around him. From a purely pragmatic perspective, it adds unnecessary vulnerability and weakness. From a human perspective, it's important. From a biomechanical perspective, how does the hand MOVE when most hand muscles are in the forearm which isn't there?
Spoiler
The hand isn't there to help Murphy, it's there as part of their 'a human mind making the decisions, a human hand pulling the trigger' PR angle.
Spoiler
They state that the human mind is incapable of keeping up with the machines during combat, so the drone hardware overrides the human... This makes me think, is the limitation one of processing power? As in, is the human brain (hardware) the one not capable of keeping up? Because if that is the case, and the drone hardware can efficiently interface with the human brain.... Why not dump the mind into a fully electronic brain?
Or maybe the implication is that the human mind (software) cannot keep up. That would be an interesting angle for a science fiction story, but I doubt it meshes with the notion of the human spirit overcoming the machine they seem to be going for.
Spoiler
The issue is one of the mind rather than the hardware. Simply put Murphy has more steps in his decision-making process than the drone, so he can't perform as quickly. When faced with a hostile the drone's though process is a two step 'ID threat, neutralize threat' kinda thing. Murphy as a human and a cop adds in extra steps and baggage that slow him down.
Last edited by SylasGaunt on 2014-02-19 12:26am, edited 2 times in total.
The real hand: leaving Murphy the ability to touch and feel things with a flesh hand would seem like a boon to his mental stability, keeping him more connected to the world and people around him. From a purely pragmatic perspective, it adds unnecessary vulnerability and weakness. From a human perspective, it's important. From a biomechanical perspective, how does the hand MOVE when most hand muscles are in the forearm which isn't there?
Spoiler
The hand isn't there to help Murphy, it's there as part of their 'a human mind making the decisions, a human hand pulling the trigger' PR angle.
Spoiler
They state that the human mind is incapable of keeping up with the machines during combat, so the drone hardware overrides the human... This makes me think, is the limitation one of processing power? As in, is the human brain (hardware) the one not capable of keeping up? Because if that is the case, and the drone hardware can efficiently interface with the human brain.... Why not dump the mind into a fully electronic brain?
Or maybe the implication is that the human mind (software) cannot keep up. That would be an interesting angle for a science fiction story, but I doubt it meshes with the notion of the human spirit overcoming the machine they seem to be going for.
Spoiler
The issue is one of the mind rather than the hardware. Simply put Murphy has more steps in his decision-making process than the drone, so he can't perform as quickly. When faced with a hostile the drone's though process is a two step 'ID threat, neutralize threat' kinda thing. Murphy as a human and a cop adds in extra steps and baggage that slow him down.
Just saw it, overall it was rather bland. The actual Robocop movies made sure to include plenty of humor and satire. You could tell what was going on in the Robocop world, and though you wouldn't want to live there, you could see what it would be like to live there.
For the remake, the in-universe news is all we see, it's not funny, and barely satirical, and exists mostly just as exposition. Aside from having fancier ipads and phones and drones patrolling everywhere but MURICA, what's the difference between our world and theirs? It doesn't seem like the future so much as someone strapped on robots to this world.
In short, this movie felt as soulless as Robocop himself.
I will admit I was disappointed when they showed the silver design, then painted it black, only to have him again emerge at the end looking more like Robocop. The silver version got me.
I really didn't like the fight with the ED-209s. First, they were inconsistent in their firing, sometimes waiting for a clear shot and other times happy to drill one of their own. Secondly those things should be deadly accurate yet seem to miss Robo more than hit. Lastly since we're told repeatedly his armour won't stop .50cal and up and we know that 209s have dual .50cal cannons by rights they should have shredded him.
Given they went out of their way to show us he's easily and quickly detachable from his body he really should have started in a non combat ready bare frame. There's no good reason to jump right to the full combat model. Rebuild him in a normal body, get him used to that, then offer him a combat chassis once you know he's stable. After all he's gonna need one sooner or later.
And yeah, the revenue stream for body transplants is going to be huge if all you need is a pair of lungs and intact head/neck.
As to why he can see his HUD when his visor is up, I'm betting one eye is completely cybernetic (the one he was blind in). Note that in the few scenes where he cries, he does so from only one eye.
Rorschach having a huge issue with him also made little sense. It's clearly a society with prosthetics- however rare. Someone who works around robots would have to be keenly aware of the difference between a human with prosthetics and a robot. Short of being programmed to, how many robots would offer to shake your hand or smile at you?
As to why he can see his HUD when his visor is up, I'm betting one eye is completely cybernetic (the one he was blind in).
Spoiler
Or the image processing part of the brain receives input from the tactical computer.
Seeing how they can modify feedback so that Murphy thinks decisions made by the system are his own, it implies a very sophisticated brain/machine integration... To the point that I keep wondering why wasn't the entire brain dumped as a virtual machine inside more efficient hardware.
(or something to that effect).
