Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 2
Page 51
..whilst the vehicles Leman Russ hull can be mass produced, only a few Forge Worlds have the skill to hand craft its laser destroyer weapon; a particularily painstaking and laborious process, resulting in demand far outstripping supply.
The destroyer utilises the old Mars Alpha Pattern hull, retaining the same engine, transmission, and drive train components...
Remember me mentioning the laser destroyer on the Chimera? This is one bit I wanted to emphasize. The Destroyer Tank Hunter's 'Laser Destroyer' is considerably hard to replace, and thus presumably relatively rare. (Although its as big as a freanking Vanquisher cannon, so those must be more common. Although why they can mount one in a turret and not the other... who the fuck knows. If its such a fearsome weapon you'd think they'd put it in a turret on a bigger hull. Apparently its not as powerful as weapons mounted on heavy/superheavies, I guess.)

It being a 'laser destroyer' would also clue us into its probable operation - basically microsecond-pulsed laser causing explosive damage. Proably designed to drill into the target to cause damage (highly penetrating, but not neccesarily making a huge hole, or big explosion.) Which does fit iwth how we've seen it used.


Page 51
There are many field conversions of the basic Destroyer hull with the heavy laser destroyer replaced with a Demolisher cannon or a battle cannon, and even the Vanquisher cannon has been witnessed on occasion utilised in this role.
Lacking a turret...
Apparently they don't bother sticking a turret on it or for putting other weapons in when they designed it. Unless that's a big battle cannon I can't even begin to understand why. The Russ hull is supposed to be hellishly modular, after all. (Maybe they don't have turrets lol.)

As an aside, the engine for the Mars pattern Destroyer uses an MR230 V12 Multi-fuel, identical to the Conquoerr (Mars Pattern). Apparently the 9-10 ton difference in mass means a 50% increase in speed effectively (50 kph and 36 kph vs the Conqueorr's 34 and 24 kph)
The Thunderer by contrast is 52 tonnes, but for some reason has 32 kph on road and 22 kph off despite having the same engine as a basic Russ (HL230 V12 Multi-fuel.) Must mean some hefty variations in intenral engine design and shit. These also apparnetly aren' t the turbine driven Russes of Epic either.
As noted in Epic Armageddon and the early Chapter approved Leman Russ stats, the Mars pattern also sued a turbine engine. We know that is a factor, although the Chapter approved one has a turbine with WORSE performance than the IA tanks
In any case it provides an interesting implication that some Leman Russes can be faster with the right engine/drive system or hull.



Page 63
The Chimera is an incredibly versatile vehicle and over the millenia it has been pressed into service in a variety of forms. Its basic chassis is used for more vehicles than any other by the Imperium, providing the basis for vehicles as diverse as Basilisk artillery and Hellound flame tanks to command vehicles and medicae transport. The most common version is the armoured personnel carrier with a turret-mounted multi-laser and hull-mounted heavy bolter, but these weapons can be repalced with other heavy weapons to fufil a variety of roles.
Again given the sheer number of hulls and variants and how easily its meant ot be produced and maintained you have to wonder why fully-mechanised regiments are supposedly so rare. Maybe they aren't, but not all Chimeras are equal and its only the really quality/high end ones (IFVs as opposed to APCs) that are rare, lots of the variants seem to be referred to collectively as 'Chimera' after all. :P

It also could be that its only impossible to fully mechanise regiments, but partial mechanisation (to varying degrees) is common. That interpretation has merit from a number of sources also.

Then again it could be that mechanised infantry is so rare because they appropriate the hulls precisely for those other roles (Trojans, Basilisks, etc.)



Page 63
Variants of the basic Chimera are common, most mounting different weapons. The heavy flamer variant is popular amongst troops operating in dense terrain, where the enemy can be close by but difficult to spot...
..
Ususally one heavy flamer Chimera will be deployed for every three standard Chimeras as a stand-in infantry close support vheicle if Demolishers, Thunderers, or Hellhounds are in short supply.
Meshes broadly with the notion in Epic Armageddon (cited earlier) that there are more Chimera (in terms of absolute numbers) than Leman russ. We know from 'emperor's Gift' and other sources that armageddon produces 10 million Russes annually (in addition to what gets tithed to the Guard annually, which is several million vehicles more) which means that there are probably at least that many, if not several times that number of Chimera tithed annually. Even more given the implied comparison of industrial capability between Forge and Hive Worlds. :P




Page 66-70
- tons of Chimera assigned to Armoured regiments in armoured fist companies. Does not seem to be attached units - they seem organic to the force. This sort of flies in the face of regiments being largely uniform in composition, but Forge World has never really seemed to pay as much lip service to tat anyhow (given battlegroups later, and the Imperial forces in Taros and similar engagements.) So ether the 'largely uniform' is just an abstraction/assumption (such as for administrative purposes, the same way they assume all regiments are roughly equal in strength) or not all worlds/regiments are bound by this restriciton.



Page 71 - Chimera diagram. Main thing of interest is that aside from 3 crew (commander, gunner, driver) it has seating for 12 Guardsmen, presumably six per side. Which is more than it was in the Inferno magazine (9+2 Commander and driver) AGain this might be variations in pattern/design, different kinds of hulls, or reflect differences between an APC and IFV (the Bradleys and STrykers of the US carry fewer people than the onld M113 APC, for example, due to diffrences in size/weight, armor, armament, etc.)




Page 72
Hellhounds are issued to dedicated Hellhound Tank companies or as squadrons of support vehicles to Armoured Fist and Tank companies. although some regiments are lucky to include entire Hellhound companies, many Imperial Guard commanders on the ground use a flexible approach to the deployment of Hellhounds as they find Hellhounds more useful as independent vehicles, attached in an ad hoc fashion to battle group or assault group as neded.
Not unlike Sentinels or armoured Fist/mechanised units, and reflecting again that there are at least some forces in the Guard who aren't expected to be unimaginative robots. : P Actually its probably indicative that many of the more armoured forces are bound to be trusted better/given more latitude than the infantry, since they a.) carry out the offensives and thus need to be more aggressive and b.) vehicles are considered much more important and valuable than a freaking lasgun. Which is not to say all armoured forces are like Sentinels or Hellhounds of course, because plenty of tanks are used in Trench/Siege Warfare (we have the Krieg to remind us always, lest we forget!)




Page 72
The Artemia pattern includes a remotely operated turret which reduces its crewt o two, whilst on many patterns, including the MArs Alpha, the fuel tank is inside the Chimera's standard hull, filling the transport compartment.
Why would they need to stick fuel tanks outside on a Hellhound, waht woudl they be carrying inside. Anyhow, remotely operated turrets, so I guess even the Guard can have some semi-automated stuff (stuff usually only the Space marines are special enough to have, as we'll discover in IA2.)




Page 73
Whilst the Hellhound is mainly utilised in an anti-infantry capacity, the Devil Dog acts predominantly in an anti-armour role. Exchanging promethium for a pyrum-petrol based mix, the injectors within its weapons system, which sits adjacent to its melta cannon, combine the two chemicals into a chamber. When this extremely volaitle combination is fired through its melta cannon, it heats up the air to such a degree that it literally vaporises the moisture within it, producing a distinctive high-piched howl that screams across the battlefield.
Against this wall of ferocious heat enemy troops stand no chance, even the most heavily armoured being incinerated in an instant. However it is against enemy armour and fortifications that the Devil Dog's thermal weaponry is most often used,. Its technology, believed to have been based on that used in Mankind's distant past to rrender down the toughest of ores and metals for use in constructing its colonies across the galaxy, is capable of rendering part of most tanks or structures to little more than molten slag and steaming gas. This often initiates critical failures in surrounding systems, causing the tank to explode or collapsing the building down uponn those inside.
Which hilariously drives the Meltas even further from being microwave beam weapons and to being more magical sorts of flamethrowers. Anti-armour flamethrowers. Let's assume that 'most' means 50%, and its a 50 ton tank (somewhere between a Predator and a Russ) which assuming iron is some 30 GJ at least and probably several times that. Ideally thats at LEAST several tons of fuel just for one tank and its doubtful thats all just one shot. The implication being that unless it is magical (and even if not its magically efficient chemical fuel, or something far higher energy density wise, if not both) the interior is mostly fuel. And even then, it probably still needs some magic. And yet, it doesn't have the same detonation hazard a Hellhound does?
Again MAGIC.



Page 73
This variant of the standard Hellhound pattenr has been modified to unleash a noxious cloud of gas so toxic that it dissolves all organic mateiral it comes into contact with, stripping flesh from bone, before rendering even that down into a bubbling pool of rank, festering ooze.
Bane Wolf chem tank. Because the Guard was not WW1-esque enough for people!



Page 75
The Centaur is not a frontline combat vehicle, although it does have limited armour protection against enemy shelling.
The Centaur has two crew as standard, a driver and a gunner, although many vehicles operate with just a single driver and rely on its passengers to man the gun. In addition to the crew, the Centaur can cram in up to five passengers.
The Centaur is usually armed with a single pintle mounted heavy stubber. This weapon is often dismounted and used by the infantry for additional fire support...
..
Positioned in the forward hull next to the driver, a squad in transit can attach their special or heavy weapon there and continue to use it to protect the vheicle.
..
..command squads and grenadier squads in transit find this feature useful.
A slightly longer hull might accomdoate eight, plus driver and gunner. If you had a squad that traded the heavy weapons crew for the driver/gunner position it would maybe make a suitable Chimera substitute. (Incidentally the redmeption corps 'fire support' centaurs seemed to have a much larger carrying capacity than these.) Based on the diagram from above on page 78 with a bit of fudging and squeezing oyu might get two more people in if you rearranged the seats a bit.
In some ways I see it as a smaller/lighter Chimera alternative, and in some cases it seems to be (Storm Troopers/Grenadiers, Veteran Guardsmen, command and heavy weapons crews, etc.) It would also be light enough and useful enough for the Elysians to deploy and use them, but.. they don't, even though they can carry multi-ton sentinels and tauros. Not unlike the Rapier laser platforms, really.



Page 75
Centaurs are often issued to grenadier units as a battlefield transport, to get them close to their targets quickly. Because these centaurs are deployed into the heart of a battle, and must face enemy fire in no-man's land, the grenadier's Centaur has been adapted with additional armour plates. This armour gives the driver and passengers some extra protection, especially against shrapnel.
A I guess the extra armor makes it more battlefield-worthy than the other Centaur type.



Page 80
..the crew often overcharge the engines of their vehicles in order to make a swift escape should they encounter strong enemy resistance. Whilst this is a breach of regulations, given the dangers faced by lightly equipped scout units operating independently of support, this is often ovelrooked although the extra strain placed on the engine by such tinkering is a constant source of grievance amongst maintenance units.
Salamander scouts and their oft-stated 'upgrade.' This evidently happens often enough that no permamant or long term harm has ever come to the Imperium. ITs also interesting that the engines can be 'boosted' in this way (although how its done, I don't know). Another example perhaps that Imperial engines might be governed to regulate their speed.



Page 80-81
In the Vanaheim pattern Salamander command vehicle, the driver is also provided with a multi-spectral auspex surveyor, fitted as part of his overhead hatch. This is an advanced piece of equipment, providing the vehicle with magnification, tracking, and night vision equipment.
..
Auspex Surveyor: These short-ranged vehicle-mounted scanning devices can be used to identify concealed or dug-in enemy positions.
Mentioned as active scan too, at least in rules. Rare example of the Imperial Giuard getting a nifty piece of tech.


Page 82
Driver's surveyor
Drop-down auspex for diver's surveyor (in down position). Fitted with magnification, scanning and night vision equipment.
Device from above again.



Page 85
Rangefinder and main sight viewer
..
Protective housing for sight electrics.
...
Smoothbore barrel
..
Recoil dampener
..
Ammunition is loaded via a feed tray (not shown). The tray holds four rounds, and extra ammunition is dropped into the tray by hand, which is then fed automatically into the weapon's breech.
Autocannon for Gryphonne IV pattern salamander scout. Aside from the autoloader and the recoil counter and the electircal sight/rangefinder, it has a smoothbore barrel. I'm not sure if this is common for autocannon or not, but it would imply it uses fin-stabilized ammunition either way unless we're supposed to believe its a really shitty cannon design :P




Page 90
...there is a immense demand for the Baneblade...
..
the millenia have seen a slow but steady increase in the number of 'counterfeit' Baneblades seeing service in the armies of the Imperium.

These Baneblades, produced by Forge Worlds eager to secure large military contracts and trade concessions, do not incorporate all of the available STC data that is on those from Mars. For example, while a true Baneblade uses much more powerful rocket-propelled shells in its main cannon, a second generation Baneblade (as the adepts of Mars refer to these tanks) use only standard battle cannon ammunition.
..
..second gneeration Baneblades normally mount a second battle cannon in the hull.
..
..the original Baneblade design has improved internal armour bracing, greater engine performance and transmission, superior comms and tactical logis engines, and all manner of secondary systems far superior to those of the second generation.
Well, second edition rolls around and they retained the 'counterfeit' baneblades as well as the Macharius 'second generation' baneblades... so I guess both exist. And hilariously this only furthers that whole 'Not always STC adhering' stuff. I mean this is basically analogous to creating the Chimera with the laser destroyer, or attempgint to reproduce the Vanquishers independently withotu access to the precious STC magic stuff. Again rare and lost and not lost seem to be pretty arbitrary and/or depending more on internal human factors than absolute 'TECH LOST' stuff. Stats wise though the differences in speed were never there (nor other stats) despite 2nd generation being 'superior'

It also suggests the 'counterfeit' uses standard battle cannon ammo (like whata Russ uses.) Presumably its a longer barrel (to keep in line with the increased size of the Baneblade, meaning you could have longer barreld, non Vanquisher battle cannon.) although this may run counter to the Escalation bit where Baneblades have their own dedicated cannon (or mega battle cannon in other sources)

Of course you have t o wonder why they can't stick those titan scale battle cannons they mention later with the stormblade on the counterfeits, or at least some Vanquisher cannon. I also have to wonder what is so special about rocket-propelled ammo in a 'true' baneblade. I mean they have it for bolters and even if its rare bAsilisks can use it, so, why so odd for tanks.



Page 98
Note the vent ports around the end of the battle cannon and demolisher cannon barrels, these allow the gases released during firing to escape.
Baneblade guns. The ports as we discover later mean the rocket activates inside the gun, just as in the earlier edition. This may be a travelling charge or a High-Low propulsion system like some grenade launchers use and has been speculated on here before for bolters, but I'll touch on those later with projecitles. Sufficed to say its not 'just' rocket propelled.




Page 100
Like the Baneblade it utilises STC technology and its production is limited to a few privileged Forge Worlds, but 'counterfeit' or 'second generation' Shadowswords are also produced on other Forge Worlds. These vehicles lack the original Shadowswords advanced technology, and may be gunned with a different main weapon; large plasma cannons, turbo-lasers or huge battle cannons, for example, are not an unkonwn alternative configuration. The original remote-controlled sponson weapons too are often replaced by crewed versions, and targeting equipment and logis engines may be more primitive, and the capacitors or engine less efficient.
Again more COUNTERFEIT stuff and generally showing a non-dogmatic view towards things, showing that 40K once agian sneers at absolutes. Even in Forge World stuff. It also shows that the computer/targeting/electronic stuff exists by degree rather than has/doesn't have (Even Russes are implied to have targeters and shit, which is hardly a shock.)



Page 100
True shadowswords are armed with a Volcano cannon, a huge laser powered by capacitors which draw power directly from the tank's engine.
..
..his rol eis to control the power flow from the engine through the generator as well as keeping the tank running. To draw power, the enginseer must disconnect the engine's main drive and connect the generator in its place. This power is then transferred to the capacitors which hold the titanic energies required for the Volcanno cannon. A single shot will drain the Shadowsword's capacitors completely.
...
..to recharge the capacitors it must remain stationary.
It can 'sever a titan's arm or leg. I decided to draw on the Demolisher Inferno entry and its lasweapon stats. 840 hp, 3.9 MW charge rate, 2 hours to charge to max, one hour use. Now we know a Baneblade can power two lascannon at least, which is going to be 7.8 MW. This is probably conservative, since we know a Leman Russ Annihilator can support up to 3 lascannon (possibly up to 5?) without siginifcant power draw (predators can do up to 4, so its not impossible.) and that's over twice that number not even factoring in disparities in tonnage.

IF we compare tonnage ratios, a Shadowsword is basically worth 5 normal battle tanks, which means a 5xdifference at least. If we factor in the annihilator example, it could be anywhere up to 20-25x.

If we go by horsepower: we don't know the Shadowsword's HP that I am aware of (840 for a Demolisher as per Inferno) but if we figure its somewhere between a P-1000 Ratte and a Panzer VIII Maus we might get between 3000-5000 hp, with 17 hp as an upper limit (we already are assuming several lascannon at least, so we can ignore the lower limit of the Ratte) it would be between 3.5 and 20 x difference in power based on horesepower (and powering on engines)

So with a 7.8 MW lower limit and up to 78 megawatts charging as an upper limit, we then turn to timeframe. One to two hours maybe seems likely given what I assessed before, but on the other hand shadowswords charge only for a singel shot, and an hour seems a bit long (contrast with say gunheads) So I'll assume between 5 minutes and an hour roughly, it shoudl be within that figure for an order of magnitude anyhow.

The Caveat from earlier regarding the charge rate does apply here, of course.. it coudl be 3.9 MW for an hour for the Demolisher's lascannon (which would be more consistent witn Honour Guard and other depictions of 'sustained' output lascannon) which would mean my calcs are off by a factor of four (agin.)

7.8 MW at 5 minute would be 'only' 2.3 gigajoules per shot. Whereas at the other end, 1 hour and 78 megawatts yields some 280 gigajoules per shot. It could go either way - we know that hadoswsowrds are terawatt ranged weapons due to the Baneblade novel and the Munitorum entry on volcano cannon, so assuming (as I usually do) its a pulsed laser type weapon (which seems reasonable given Laser Destroyers are, so why not Shadowswords?) given a millisecond timeframe for discharge you could come out to the terawatt range.



Page 100
Shadowswords therefore tend to only be made on Forge Worlds which raise Titan Legions..
Well most worlds have a titan Legion.. so either all Forge Worlds make Shadowswords, or not all Forge Worlds can build titans. But they can build titans, at least!


Page 106
..many have sought to produce tanks that fufil the same 'titan Hunter' role. Instead of a Volcano cannon, these vehilces will often mount turbo-lasers, massive battle cannons or adaptations of other Titan-sized weaponry.
Like the stormblade's plasma blastgun. Stormblades are basically scaled up Executioners (with more reliable cooling.) Lack the long range targeting auspex of true shadowswords.
Also stormblades naturally (and once again) and for no good reason include additional bolted on armor plating that add no protective quality AT ALL, but apparently serves to wiegh the engine down and bring it to 'codex approved' superheavy speeds. Because you don't want to offend Mars by having your illegally-made Baneblade move too fast. And naturally whilst they will overcharge engines or slap on random weaponry to other hulls in defiance of the AdMech they will not remove the useless overheavy armor plating from the illegal Baneblade.)
Anyhow applyin gthe same 'Demolisher' logic, WE know they can have two plasma sponsons, 200 therms/s charging time and a 4200 therm output per cannon. Assuming at least equal to 2 plasma cannon thats 8400 therms or 890 GJ at least. If we figure 4-5 demolishers thats 3.5-4.5 TJ per shot (33,600-42,000 therms) for a 21 second recharge. Otherwise it would be 'only' double/triple digit GJ.
Obviously if we use less generaous plasma calcs (even mere 'cremation' calcs) the yields would be considerably less, but performance wise I'd figure the Plasma blastgun is on the same magntidue as a Volcano cannon, and its still bound to be better than regular anti armour/anti tank weapons (plasma, multimelta, etc.) It can also depend on thermal or mechanical effects too, of course. I suspect the 'therms' based ones for demolishers are more purely thermal, for example.


Page 106
In the past, when facing the heaviest Titans, some Stormblades were fitted with extenral Hellion missile racks.
A throwback to Epic and 2nd edition designs. Racks were withdrawn from service because the warheads would catastrophically detonate if damaged. you have to wonder why they just didn't build a dedicated missile rack platform for long distance bombardment, though.


Page 112
Originally a field conversion of the Shadowsword, when a Shadowsword or Stormblade is taken out of action the salvaged chassis is often rebuilt and new weapons added to create the Stormsword.
..
Whilst such conversions are 'unofficial' and unsanctioned by the conservative upper echelons of the Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard commanders facing large numbers of enemy infantry on the ground such as rampaging mobs of Orks or swarms of Tyranids must take a more pragmatic view. Any vehicle that can fufil sucha v ital battlefield role, as the Stormsword more than ably can, will be included on their roster regardless of what other institutions of the Imperium may have to say about it.
Once again the IG will 'innovate' even if the AdMech won't. And they evidently get away with it.




Page 112
The siege gun barrel however has a restricted elevation, which reduces the weapon's ultimate range, but this is compensated for by the shell's integral rocket propulsion system. Each huge shell weighs in excess of 180 kg, and rather than firing by conventional means, a Stormsword literally launches each one, exhaust vents on either side of the gun barrel allowing the gas discharged by the rocket's engine to escape during firing.
Not unlike baneblade shells. This does of course set an upper ilmit on the size of the Baneblade munition of course.. I'd expect it to be several times less massive at least (but still big)
Assuming conventional explosives and somewhere between 1/2 and 1/6 of the shell's mass, it would have between 30 and 90 kg of TNT at least. Figure its accurate to within an order of magnitude, unless it uses something better than TNT. :P


Page 112
..the vehicle's loader has to be aided by an automated loading tray which is then hand cranked to move the shell into the barrel.
If a hand crank is involved how is it auomated?



Page 112
..the Stormsword, whilst still rare, has therefore earned a place within the Imperial Guard's arsenal, with some Forge Worlds already starting to produce them in limited numbers to meet demand..
More COUNTERFEIT superheavies. The hilarious bit is that they'r building a supposedly 'unsanctioned' design the Guard made up on the fly (and the AdMech despise). What was that about STC canon again?


Page 118
The Macharius is one of a variety of what are referred to as 'second generation' Baneblades. These are built by Forge Worlds eager to secure large military contracts, but who do not possess the STC data required to build true Baneblades. Only a handful of Forge Worlds still manufacture Baneblades to the same design as those used during the Great Crusades..
Kind of amusing since this same book mentions both the 'second generation' baneblades which were literally baneblade hulls with extra battle cannon in the hull (in the demolisher's place) whereas the Macharius has two turret mounted guns. Not exactly the same thing.
As we learn in this book (and IIRC in IA5) basically the design was pieced together by some Magos as his lifes work, got approved after he died, but Lucius got to build genuine baneblades so put this on hold until the Kriegers came in and they needed a superheavy tank to fit their attritionalist tastes.
And unsurpisingly despite being significantly less massive than a Baneblade it can't move any faster (blame engine efficiency. Or maybe they stuck more shitty useless armor on it just to slow it down deliberately!)



Page 119
The Vanquisher replaces the Macharius' original battle cannons with powerful VAnquisher cannon. These weapons, although harder to manufacture and never available in great number,s fire a high velocity anti-tank shell that can penetrate the thickest armour with devastaitng result.
If they have enough to stick two Vanquisher cannons on the Macharius hull you think they'd just make two Vanquishers instead. You could just stick a Titan-sized battle cannon on the Macharius like they do with some Stormblade variants (Macharius Omega can handle plasma blastgun and vulcan mega bolters after all.)
Or why not a laser destroyer like the Destroyer tank hunter? Its turret should be able to accomodate at least one (of coruse a Baneblade could mount that too..)
Note this also mentions Lucius can make VAnquisher cannon, which means they can make Leman Russ Vanquishers. that's got to be like at least 5 worlds that can still make them (Mars, Stygies VIII, Gryphonne IV, Ryza and now Lucius) Maybe there are Counterfeit Vanquishers too!
Or I know! A scaled up Baneblade-sized vanquisher gun! Its not like we haven't established by now - evne just using the stuff in this book - they'll make shit up if they choose.


Page 119
It is a multiple-barrel gatling autocannon which can fire thousands of rounds per minute...
..
.. carrying only enough ammunition for twenty seconds firing.
Vulcan mega-bolter. We know from the previous stuff that it carries 8000 rounds. Which means its rate of fire is something like 400 rounds per second 24,000 rpm. That's more than twice the ROF of the highest ROF gatling gum I'm aware of (~10,000 RPM for some Russian versions) but its not even the highest ROF gun I've heard of the Imperium having (the 60,000 rpm bolters on that Faustus Interceptor from First and Only come to mind...)
For shits and giggles, assuming 900 n-s per ton max recoil limit, which masses 172 tonnes and assuming 30% of the recoil is propellant we'd get about 271 n-s per shot. Assuming ~1 km/s velocity that would mean each mega bolter shot weighs some 270 grams. If we figure the recoil is 1/2 to 1/3 we'd get between 90-130 grams for the bullet, if velocity was held constant. Call it 100-150 kj per shot, which is 40-60 MW for KE, and 40-60 kg worth of shells fired. Assuming between 1/2 and 1/6 the mass in explosive, thats 7-20 kg, which is ~30-126 MJ worth of explosive power. If we go by my assessment from the Night Lords Novels of mega bolter yield, we'd get between 200 grams and 5 kg of TNT equivalent depending on calc, which is between 80 and 2000 kg of TNT each second
Incidentally that incdient meshes well with the estimated rate of fire here (hundreds of shells a second)


Page 119
..the battlefield deployment of the Omega-pattern plasma blastgun, a variant of the more common Ryza design employed on the Stormblade.
..
The weapon's design, although more widely replicable than the arcane technologies of its forebear, lack the stability of the superlative Ryza pattern weapon, and generates considerably more waste heat. However, the Omega also utilises a more compact generator design and force crucible, allowing it to be mounted on smaller super-heavy hulls.
The comparable ease with which the Macharius 'Omega' can be manufactured and repaired has more than overcome its shortcomings in the eyes of the Lords militant, and large quantities of porduction capacity ave been devoted to the design on the dogmatically allied Forge Worlds of Lucius, Hellgrace, and Dynax Primus.
A mini stormblade. Probably one of the more sensible Macharius variants, honestly. Also pretty nasty, all told, even with the increasd waste heat.




Page 128
..the Crassus has become widley used by the Imperial Guard and Adeptus Mecahncius armoured units of the southern and westenr Segmentum Tempestus, and with production of the design being taken up in the last several centuries by the major Forge World of Lucius, it is now being used extensively to resupply units close to the Eye of Terror to replace on-going losses in that steadily worsening war zone.
..
The Crassus' drive system is considerably more powerful than other vehicles of its size. This was designed to not only cope with the additional armour fitted to its chassis, but also to provide its driver with the speed to deliver the vehicle's human cargo to their destination...
..
Capable of holding up to thirty five Guardsmen or two Cyclops Demolition vehicles..
One of the non-Chimera APCs they have, albeit the bigger ones, although not as huge as the superheavies like the stormlord and similar featured in Escalation.
It's also apparently significantly faster than a Macharius or its ilk, which is not saying much really :P I'd guess 25-30 kph off road, maybe 35-40 kph on road, by Forge World conservatism.


Page 129
The Praetor launcher is a sophisticated weapon that far predates the introduction of the Crassu sitself..
..
This has ultimately led with the dissemination of the powerful Crassus Chasiss to the introduction of a new mobile Praetor-weapon platform by Zhao-Arkkad's manufactora which has spread relatively swiftly through frontline regiments throughout the Segmentum Tempestus and beyond.
The Ig's Whirlwind equivlaent. Bigger, slower, but longer ranged and probably more powerful.


Page 129
Foehammer and Firestorm missiles provide a hard hitting and devastating barrage which can be used against ground-based enemy vehicles or enemy-held targets. The pilum warhead enables the Praetor to be used in an anti-aircraft capacity, sophisticated tracking systems within its AA mount constantly monitoring the skies for potential airborne threats.
Missile types for Praetor.


Page 129
A heavy siege tank featuring an automated battery of three bombardment cannon, the Dominus is a powerful if somewhat unpredictable weapon...
..
The Dominus' armament is at the very extreme of the hull frame's capability, and the on-board supply of shells for its main weapon are, by necessity, somewhat limited.
..
Much like the rarer and ancient Minotaur, the Dominus' formidable armour allows it to accompany an armoured spearhead into the very jaws of an enemy's firepower before unleashing a rapid saturation bombarmdnet in support of a main attack.
I'm guessing it mounts the Bombard in triplicate. Makes you wonder why they don't use Medusa, or Basiliks, or Colossus cannon in multiple batteries too. A Minotaur analogue of sorts.
If we figure the 'limits' are around 900-1000 n-s per ton (about what a M551 Sheridan had) and its something on the order of a Macharius in tonnage (170 tons) and 30% propellant in terms of recoil, each bombard is between 35,000-40,000 n-s. Figure a 400-600 m/s for the shot (faster than a Manticore missile) and it would be at least 7-12 MJ of KE per shell. Although its going to be considerably more in momentum.


Page 133
Generally only deployed during trench warfare, where infantry are forced to cross regions of hostile no-man's land...
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Wise commanders therefore only sanction Gorgon assaults across a short distance, after the enemy has been heavily suppressed by a sustained artillery bombardment.
A Gorgon can carry a full platoon in its open topped hold...
..
..the Gorgon is only deployed for carefully selected missions, such as attacking heavily fortified enemy defences, or delivering troops into a breach during a siege. They are not routinely deployed for frontline operations unless to assist a major offensive.
..
As a specialised armoured vehicle, the Gorgon is not common amongst Imperial Guard regiments. It is most widely used by siege regiments for trench warfare, but they are sometimes issued to armoured regiments and infantry when the demands of a campaign require such support.
Platoon means 50. Hilariously, given its like 50 tons heavier than a Macharius, its actually a bit FASTER. I suppose that would mean the Crassus is even faster.
It also reflects that evne in terms of trench warfare shit they'll employ transports, at least in some cases. Pity they didn't do more in Vraks, eh? Then again I've heard many people comment about it being a death trap (by virtue of a ramp opening straight ahead, and open topped, meaning it would be great if the enemy can shoot a munition into the thing from the front or above.


Page 140
..those relatively few Malcadors that remain in Imperial service have either been relegated to strategic reserves, planetary defence arsenals and other 'second line' forces...
Called a heavy tank, but follows 'super heavy' rules. Go figure. Masses 105 tonnes. and still as slow as a Baneblade. Amsuingly they were faster in the HH books. And evne the anniilator variant is slow. (same speed as the regular one, unlike the LR annihilator variant.) Still my least favorite tank :P



Page 148
.. the Neutron laser and the neutronic coil arc reactor that power it...
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The neutron energy beam the Valdor's main armament unleashes is capable of rupturing the densest of protective materials, smashing apart its target's molecular structure and creating a massive electro-magnetic shock effect in addition to explosive matter disruption.
Except for the 'feedback' effect that can blow the firing vehicle up (howeve rthe fuck it manages it) it would almost sound like a regular particle beam.



Page 148
..with production facilities for the Valdor known to be situated on a small number of far flung Adeptus Mechanicus strongholds such as Lathe-het and Cyraxus II, as well as Mars itself.
Lathe het, a mention of Dark Heresy's Calixis sector!




Page 152
Intended for forward deployment to provide heavy fire support in the heart of a battle, the Minotaur is a heavily armoured and highly durable weapons platform....
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The minotuar remains a powerful weapon, far greater both in terms of firepower and durability than the ubiquitous Basilisk...
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The Minotaur's most unusual feature is its deck layout, which distributes its engine, drive systems and ammunition storage evenly across its superstructure and mounts its armament on a wide central axis point facing rearward, away from the crew compartment. This centerline weapons mounting has a huge payload capacity and an inherent tolerance for recoil which serves to stabilise the vehicle when firing even the most massive of ordnance.
Basically a Macharius version of artillery that can drive backwards. With heavy armor. Its more powerful because it has two Earthshakers rather than one. Apart from the layout having a recoil advantage I can't say it looks to be any better than a Basilisk. :P I mean, Earthshakers aren't 'the most massive' ordnance the IG fields, and this thing has Earthshakers. unless there are larger caliber earthshakers than 132mm, which, there might be.



Page 152
If the Minotaur has a deficiency, it is the complexity of its advanced construction, particularly in terms of its armoured defence and the sophisticated hydraulic and recoil compensation systems that form a key part of its design.
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Some reports, however, place thousands of these machines held in the stragetic war reserves of the Departmento Munitorum awiating the call to battle.
Like on Vraks. Which we know turned out so well for them. I like how they treat 'ITS ADVANCED' as some sort of inherent disadvantage, which this being Forge World guard, it is meant to be. Its a backwards firing, dual-barrel Basilisk.



Page 158
Basilisks are often required to add their firepower in direct support of combat troops, and the Earthshaker's low angle of elevation means it can be fielded as an assault gun, engaging targets at short range with devastating effect.
Basilisk roles. It's not just dedicated indirect fire artillery like some, but it apparently is an assault gun and tank destroyer (or at least anti-vehicle.) One thing to also comment on in relation to this, its game mechanics but interesting. Back before 5th edition, IA1, 3, and 5 all had baslilisk/Earthshaker entries. An interesting feature of all of them was that they had two ranges. one was 'direct' fire range and an indirect fire range (up to 120" for direct, and 240" for indirect.) What's more, indirect fire was a modification that cost extra points, although once 5th rolled around all Basiliks could hit the indirect fire range by default.

This is interetsing to me because of the 'low angle of elevation' (often commented on in all the entries) as well as the fact IA5 mentions the Earthshaker taking 19 seconds to reach max range at 814 m/s (implying again a very shallow elevation) suggests the 15-16 km is 'direct fire' range. Which in turn (keeping in mind this IS game mechanics, although plenty of authors seem to go on that at times for stats) would imply indirect fire is twice that (30-32 km) - it is less accurate, of course, but certainly possible, and a higher elevation should provide longer potential ranges (at the cost of a longer travel time and reduction in accuracy, of course.) If we tie this in with the 20 km range of Taros or Battlefleet Koronus for the Earthshaker (or the fact 16 km is possible evne at the 690 m/s velocity from Inferno #14) we get upwards of 40 km or so.

We also know its not tied to the extra propellant charges because both Basilisks and Earthshaker platforms have the indirect option, yet only the Earthshakers are able to use the extra charges. It might be tied to rocket-assisted shells, though.

Note another peculiarity of the stats (which I note with the Manticores) is that Manticore range is significantly less now - 120" where it used to be 300" which means the Earthshakres are actually twice the range of Manticores (60-80 km.) This does run into contradictions with battelfleet Koronus (as it still presents Earthshakers as typically being outranged by Manticores.) but we know Earthshakers have a 100 km range from Tactica Imperialis and 70+ for Imperium-based artillery in Necropolis, so we could rationalize it as differences in ammo or atypical ranges (rocket assisted or guided munitions owuld be likely.)

Even so, if we go with the 240" Earthshaker, 300" Manticore range (again Manticore missiles might vary in range performane as well as role the same way Earthshakers would.) still be 24-32 km, which is consistent with the 'indirect' range potential. Conversely, this could mean that Manticores could reach out to 100-125 km with the right kind of ammo, just as Earthshakers and other artillery platforms have their 'extra long range' artillery options.

I should comment that ironically enough my own previous assessment was the complete opposite of this. 15-16 km was the absolute range and 'direct' range was 7-8 km only. :P imagine that.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Last part!
Page 159
Being vehicle mounted, the Griffon needs the fire control and observation back up usually found in large artillery companies.
Which maybe references havign that targeter on a pole it had back in 2nd, and was observed in IA3.


Page 161
Unlike most other artillery pieces, which are always constructed on a single chassis, the Bombard is sometimes built upon the larger, more robust chassis of the Leman Russ battle tank instead of the Chimera chasis, with the Leman Russ chassis being heavily modified to accomodate the weight of the siege mortar.
..
Loading a bombard is a time consuming process, each shell being too heavy for a man to lift, so the Bombard incorporate sa small crate for moving shells into the breach.
...
Another feature of the Bombard is its large recoil spade. This wedges into the ground and helps absorb the guns' recoil, stopping it from rolling backwards.
Bombard masses some 71 tonnes, and moves between 24 kph on road and 12 kph off road.
being too heavy to lift probably suggests at least 50-100 kg at least, if not more (otherwise you'd think they'd get several guys to lift it anyhow.) In fact we know from 15 hours and similar sources that up to 4 men can carry a shell, so it suggests the shell is heavier than 4 men could carry, which I'd wager is more like 100-200 kilos. Assuming at least a definite 900-1000 kg*m/s recoil at that speed we'd be talking 64,000-71,000 kg*m/s. Assuming more than twice that (1500-2000 kg*m/s) would be closer to 107,000-142,000 kg*m/s, which is more likely to move the tank back. ASsuming again 30% of the recoil is propellant you get between 42,000-48,000 kg*m/s at least. If we assume a 150 kg shell its between 280-320 m/s velocity at least. 75,000-99,400 kg*m/s on the toher end which is 500-662 m/s.



Page 161
Each bombard battery requires resupply and maintenance so a battery will also include other support vehicles such as a Chimera as a ocmmand vehicle and other Chimeras as crew transports.
Trojans and sentinel powerlifters for carrying ammo and loading; salamanders for scouting and observation and an Atlas for moviing. Given the number of Chimera frams they devote to the guns they're not exactly rare sounding. :P



Page 164 - Basiliks has a 'targeting control panel' mounted to the wall, with a screen, whatever use that is for :p The Earthasnker also has two recoil pistols (upper and lower)



Page 181 - Manticores no longer have their 300" range, as noted later and from 5th edition, their Storm Eagle (ground attack) or Sky Eagler (air attack) rockets are 120" now, which is actually less than the basilisk's 240" See previous comment hilarity about ranges.


Page 186
Normally firing five charges, sometimes it may be issued with a sixth or seventh charge in an attempt to increse its range. This induces considerable strain on the gun's barrel and evnetually leads to erosion of the firing chamber so that correctly sealing the breach becomes impossible. No more than twenty rounds are therefore allowed through any single gun before it must be allowed to cool.
..
..fired on a low elevation, they can easily destroy an enemy vehicle or bunker.
Again the low elevation stuff, and also the variable charges. The interesting change is that whilst the 'overcharging' seems to strain the gun barrel and lead to eventual erosion, its not an immediate thing. The twenty-round limit is not the absolute it was implied to be in previous stuff (IA1 and IA5), but rather a cooldown period, meaning that it can slow down sustained rates of fire, but it won't neccesarily take the gun completely out of commission until replaced (only hasten the need for repairs lol.)

but you still can't do this with Basilisks, like in previous sources (oddly though towed Earthshakers have no problem doing this?)


Page 201
..sentry guns are automated weapons systems which for a beleagured force low on manpower, or stretched thinly through the streets of an urban battlefield...
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Able to operate independently without the need for a controler due to their machine-spirit infused simple logis engines, once placed, set and armed their systems remain constnatly vigilant....
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It is not unheard of for dedications to the sentry gun's machine spirit to be found reverentially placed around it, a practice that is frowned upon by most Imperial commanders and commissars have been known to issue severe penatlies to anyone caught participating in such acts of unsanctioned worship.
Similar 'acts' were placed upon the Crassus as well, and discouraged by the Munitorum/Commissariat. Its kinda hilarious given the whole emphasis on how full of ignorance and superstition that the Imperium is, and yet you have multiple instances in the same books of the Imperium discouraging or even punishing.. ignorance and superstition.



Page 205
These auto-stabilised mounts for heavy weapons, such as twin linked autocannon, twin linked lascannon and quad heavy stubbers. Their design enables a single infantryman to operate them effectively without the need for additional crew...
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Due to their light structure they are easily assembled on the field in forward positions or around vital-strong points..
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The gyroscopic frame they are mounted on also allow sthe operator to engage aerial targets effectively, providing vital anti-aircraft cover.
Sabre gun platforms. Basically a human powered version of a Tarantula :P



Page 205
The Rapier armoured carrier is an ancient device...
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A bulky, armoured track unit which mounts an antomantic reactor, the Rapier is armed with a powerful laser destroyer, the same as mounted on the Laser Destroyer Tank Hunter. This has become synonymous with the Rapier Armoured Carrier, and the Graia Pattern Rapier Laser Destroyer is perhaps the most common design of this potent anti-tank weapon in use.
Ah now we get to that lengthy bit about Laser Destroyers on Chimeras I quoted from the previous IA1. Its not quite 'the same' as mounted on the Destroyer tank hunter, sinc ethat's a big long barreld single weapon and this is basically a quad mount, but I imagine they're both laser destroyers and probably work along similar principles. Basically I figur that Chimera tank was mounting this weapon, probably as a turret. :P

Also note the atomantic reactor, or antomantic or whatever. Basically it has a reactor, which is hilarious because this same reactor will get labeled as rare/lost tech in other sources. :P I imagine this might also be the source of power for nuclear powered chimeras/tanks. Heck if they stuck a rapier laser destroyer on the Chimera they almost certainly would have had to stick the reactor in too.



Page 209
..the Hades powerful cutting head is equipped with a melta-cutter for blasting rock into liquid slag and four large, diamantine-tipped, rotary powercutters. These can quickly smash and pound rock into rubble...
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As a cutting tool, it should not be confused with the Termite or Mole, which are rare subterranean transport vehicles sometimes fielded by the Adeptus Mechanicus for similar tunnelling assaults. These utilise advanced phase-field generator technology to 'dig' under the enemy rather than the brute force of the HAaes.
..
It is capable of cutting through just about any material with its powerblades and melta-cutter, smashing bunkers, buildings, defences or vehicles..
It seems the Hades has powered cutting edges to assist in breaching, not just fancy magic sharp cutting surfaces. Also mention how lost tech the underground burrower transports are/were, even though we've seen them in novels (Ice Guard, anyone?)



Page 219
Being a walker it lacks the top speed of tracked or wheeled vehicles but, at need, it can run - much like a man.
Suggesting most tracked/wheeled vehicles outrun it. Presumably you could include that as Russes.


Page 219
Often called upon to operate independently of higher command, Sentinel pilots become individualistic, relying on their initiative, traits not generally encouraged in Imperial Guard troops.

5 m height, 45 kph on road, 40 kph off, 4 tonnes mass. Like hellhounds and chimera-borne troops, they reflect the less 'rigidthinking' aspects of the Guard.


Page 228
The Tauros is a studrily built all-terrain vehicle, often used as a utility vehicle or tractor on frontier worlds. Similar vehicles are not uncommon within Explroator teams and some have also been used in combat by bangs of brigands, marauders and rebel factions. In fact so versatile is the vhielce that some have been adopted ofr military service by Imperial Guard regiments.
..
They can also be carried deep behind enemy lines for far-ranging reconnaissance missions and surprise 'hit and run' raids. For these missions the vehicles will be carrying a significant amount of extra equipment: weapon power packs, camouflage netting and huter-killer missiles as well as crew weaponry and supplies. This allows squadrons to operate without further re-supply and cover great distances before being extracted and returned to base.
The Elysians field tow versions of the Tauros: The basic four-wheeled vehicle and a larger, more heavily armed six-wheeled vehicle, called the Tauros Venator.
Like we know from IA8 the Elysians use them, aiddropped in by Sky Talons. I have to wonder if they can or would adapt it as some sort of troop carrier or motorised transport. We know from the 3rd edition IG codex, Ghosts novels, and similar sources that motorised units exist.



Page 228
One notable feature of both Tauros models is their high-yield galvanic motors, meaning that the vehicles do not have the usual multi-fuel engine, which is both loud and dirty and often gives away a vehicle's position, but hum along instead driven by electircal power. These motors are very efficient and highly stable, and aren't prone to mecahnical failure (a useful attribute when operating deep behind enemy lines) and there is no need to carry weighty extra fuel. The motor will run for days before it needs re-charging, and power is supplied to each wheel independently, meaning each will keep turning when others are damaged or destroyed.
I guess elecric motors are alot more commonplace too. Hardly surprising given their battery tech. Indeed, its actually an advatnage for independent operation, all told. We also know they can run 'days' on their batteries. If we use a humvee as a baseline for horsepower (190 hp - 142 kw) and figure they run at least 2 days but fewer than 7 (A week) that would be at least 24.5 GJ, to 73.5 GJ.


Page 228
..single pintle-mounted weapon. This is usually the Tauros' own rapid firing grenade launcher, although some vehicles are equipped with heavy flamers for close support. The heavier Venator includes a small, powered rear turret. This turret is armed with twin multi-lasers, which draw power from the vehicle's main auxiliary galvanic cells. The multi-lasers can also be replaced by lascannon, with each squadron generally operating with one lascannon armed anti-tank vehicle suppporting two vehicles with standard armament. The drop regiments have also adapted the VEnator with additional hard points to mount two hunter-killer missiles.
Tauros weapons. Assuming the Lasers draw 10-1% of that power in their batteries as mentioend in the prior quote, total lasweapon capacity is between 245 MJ and 7.4 GJ total capacity, although it could probably draw more if need be.



Page 231
The Trojan is a workhorse uesd by Imperial Guard armoured reigments as a tractor for towing weapons platofrms and as an armoured munitions carrier, feerrying extra ammunition to the to the weapons platforms once they are position or to frontline units in need of resupplying. It is not a combat vehicle and rarely sees service at the frontline, but behind the lines it is a common sight...
Utilising the basic Chimera chassis and engine the Trojan is quick to manufacture and efficient in its role, with good raod and cross-country perfromance.
..
It lacks the frontal defensive armour of a Chimera and has no requirements for the Chimera's other features such as targeters and med kits..

Trojans again. Not much different from previous book, even the hilarious 3.5 ton mass remains the same. And they still aren't combat vehicles, but they can be quickly and eaisly manufactured, suggesting they are far from 'rare'. They are in fact quite common by implication (as common or moreso than the Chimera, even.)



Page 231
Although it is not meant to be committed to battle there have been many examples of Trojans being converted in field workshops for use in combat. as an (all but weakly) armoured vehicle, it can be pressed into frontline service by desperate commanders. Some examples of such expedient field conversions include adding autocannon to crete a makeshift anti-aircraft weapon, bolting on extra armour plates to create a small personnel carrier, packing the reare with communications equipment to create a headquarters comms hub, and creating ad-hoc engineering vehicles by adding minesweepers or even a light bridge layer. These vehicles are never as successful as their authentic counterparts, but most commanders would rather explain themselves to an irate ADeptus Mechanicus Enginseer than be seen to fail in the eyes of their superiors or a commissar.
Implying that all those 'adaptations' exist in some form or another (A communcaitons hub, an APC, a minesweeper and bridge layer all based on Chimera hulls. I would note an IFV and a APC are not the same thing, and Chimeras are IFVs, whilst a APC would be somthing more like a Rhino... so this would be the Chimera-hull equivalent ofa Rhino.) The Chimera APC variant might be the A-50 armoured transport mentioned in Epic Armageddon, given they share the same turbine design and what STC is supposed to be.

Speaking of transports.. given how utterly lightweight this is and the likelihood of the size of Tauros and Tauros venator.. you'd think they could adapt the Trojan as a light gun carrier (lascannon or laser destroyer or melta or plasma weapon) and troop transport of various types for airmobile or drop commando regiments.

Also extra armor plates, I'm guessing its either applique armor, composite, or possibly even reactive or ablative. Or some combination, even!




Page 235
Imperial Guardsmen are drawn from a wide range of societies and cultures. Many (some would say the best) come from violent backgrounds, such as hive gangs or penal colonies. Others come from feral worlds, primitive tribesmen and savages barely evolved beyond the Stone age. Once recruited and indcotrinated, all these Guardsmen must be trained to fight with the same arsenal of weapons. Their weapons must be robust, easy to use and maintain, and simple to make and mass produce, and so in an age of laser, plasma and melta weapons the vast bulk of the Imperial Guard still rely on projectile weapons which fire high explosive ammunition. This applies not only to personal weapons but also to the bigger guns with convntional projectile weapons such as the battle cannon, Demolisher cannon, Earthshakers and autocannon fufilling all these criteria whilst remaining efficient and deadly.
IG vehicle design criteria for vehicles and weapons. The hilarious bit is that even though lasguns are supposed to fufill the 'simple yet efficient' role, they insist here that projectile weapons are more commonplace.

Also, Guard indoctrination and violent types making the best troops.



Page 235
For battlefield effectiveness, the Imperial Guard rely upon simple principles to deliver high explosive to a target.
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There is no need for advanced or sophisticated weapons when it comes to the Imperial Guard's method of waging war. Brute force, more men and more guns is the strategy the Imperium has relied upon and it has rarely failed it in 10,000 years.
Basically chem propelled and use of explosive charges to deal damage. Setting aside the whole 'brute force/attrition/numbers' thing that is the Guard's dynamic (because they can't rely on guaranteeing a more complex approach than that, due tot he myriad factors in flux for the Guard as a whole. Keep it Simple is the Guard motto.), the use of explosive charges is useful because aside from certain specialized variants like Vanquishers I doubt they can exert any real quality control over their vehicles due to all the 'variation' stuff I've spoken of (doctrine, design, technology and industrial base, etc.) But as long as they can build them to a roughly consistent caliber (or range of calibers) they probably can adapt the guns to fire an explosive shell, HEAT, or similar that were mass produced elsewhre (say a forge world) and provided to them, and explosive warheads of various types would ensure broadly consistent damage regardless of gun quality or performance (EG it's independent of muzzle velocity, etc.) Mind you, what qualifies as standard ammo is not neccesarily HEAT depending on your source (EG the munitorum manual suggested shaped charge/Anti tank rounds were comparativel rare, so unless krak shells were something different, its up for debate. Its debatable it was also HESH either, given what the Augur round is in here in contrast to honour Guard. Maybe they're a Self Forging penetrator warhead!)

Likewise I suspect extra armor plating or blocks or whatever of various sorts (composite, ablative, reactive, etc.) can be applied to bolster protection up to a certain minimum standard and enforce a certain level of quality control there as well (Even if CONVENTIONAL STEEL only is used :P)



Page 235
The development of new ammunition for these 'battle-cannons' (sometimes used as a generla term for large calibre projectile firing weapons) would be a long and difficult process for the Adeptus Mechanicus to undertake. The knowledge of sophisticated matters such as metallurgy, chemistry, physics, and ballistics are the remit of Adeptus Mechancius Magos, and each is a master of his art. Few however have all the knoweldge needed for the complex requirements of making ammunition. Instead, the Adpetus Mechanicus rely upon tried and tested techniques handed down through the centuries...
This utterly boggles me - they're incapable of cooperating even on their own world, or are these 'rare' Magos scattered rnadomly across the galaxy and never correspond? I mean what weapons technology isn't a collaborative effort in real life?

In any case the 'knowledge' and that they have it is again hilarious despite the whole ignorance thing, even if they do rely on 'pre-existing' knowledge... which makes it again sound more just like lazines and convenience rather than actual 'THEY DON'T KNOW!' Cuz, I mean, if they know physics they're bound to know at least something..



Page 235
The most common high explosive is fyceline, although other explosive compounds and chemicals are known. The explosive is the shell's main destructive force...
..
This [Propellant charge] is a powder that, when ignited, burns with such ferocity that the very rapid pressure build-up of gases behind the shell propel it ofrwards, along the barrel at high speed.
Again its more or less chem propellants stuff, which is not going to differe significantly performance wise (certainly less than an order of magnitude difference, even if that. Although it doesn't rule out exotic forms (like electrothermal-chemical or similar.) in some form or another, or alternate propulsion techs.


Page 235
Some ammunition is rocket-assisted, notable in the Baneblade's main battle cannon and 'bolter' weapons. Rather than relying upon a separate propellant charge, the ammunition itself contains a miniature solid-propellant fuelled rocket. The propellant is shaped in such a way as to control the duration and rate of burning, and hence the thrust of the rocket. The resulting accuracy and range of the ammunition are impressive, and far more efficient in its use of propellant than the conventional firing method.
One drawback of rocket-assisted ammunition is that, confined inside a barrel, the rocket blast creates over-pressuring issues, variously causing the barrel or the shell to deform, severely upsetting the shell's flight characteristics or, at worst, bursting the weapon's barrel. This probelm can be alleviated by venting ports, and in the Baneblade this involves a double sleeve for the gun barrel, with venting ports around the muzzle. When ignited the orkcet gases are directed into the outer sleeve and thus escape from the muzzle end of the gun. The shell exits under its own blast pressure, stabilised in flight by rear-mounted fins, and subsequent 'booster' burns maintain the shell's speed and range, each booster burning out and igniting the next 'burn' before falling away.
Another 'alternate' approach. Really it sounds alot more like a 'travelling charge' or a high low system, and its an interesting comparison. Travelling charge propulsion, as described in the link, is basically that the shot is accelerated inside the gun, but apart from the initial charge the propellant is attached to the base and continues to push as it moves along the barrel, rather than the gases remaining concentrated at the end. This would improve accuracy and efficiency, and reduce recoil considerably. The only difference is that it implies it may still 'propel' outside the gun, so it may be a bit more than travelling charge, but at the very least part of that is involved. Again as the link notes travelling charges are considerably faster than modern propellant guns (2-3 km/s) and this would again fit in perhaps.

Further info on the subject can be found here

It may also give alternatives to some of the higher end Leman Russ gun calcs, which I am always hopeful for :P And it can explain bolters better, I think.

Alternatley, and less optimistically, we may just be seeing a variation of the High-Low system for propulsion. Used in 40mm grenades, and also a Anti tank gun, it has been suggested as a model for bolters by Sea Skimmer in the past (and makes more sense) so it could work here, too. Not as high a velocity but given the emphasis on explosie charges that may not matter.

Either way its implied that once leaving the barrel there is at least one or more stages and the shell is fin-stabilized, so there may be further acceleration (or the rocket assist simply helps keep the round fixed.)

Page 235
Some bolter rounds use a combination of both systems to good effect, drastically reducing recoil whilst maintaining the range and accuracy of the 'bolt' and alleviating the need for fin-stabilisation.
'both' in this case means conventional propellant and the rocket assist simultaneously (which evidently explains ejected casings, as they mention that in the description in the old IA2). Which is rather complex, but eh. Probably means higher velocity, and the conventional propellant seems to spin the round (hence need for rifling inside the gun as seen here in 3rd edition rules.

Incidentally, reading the IA2 original description for bolter,s this also implies the subsequent stages are less for further acceleration outside the gun and perhaps for maintaining velocity, so the burn rate may be more steady. Both sources do note the accuracy problems rocket assist can have, though. so its also not a prefect solution.

Again as noted the Baneblade gun seems to have some similarity to bolters, and either concept would work. They're not even mutually exclusive, and there's a range of uses (different amounts of 'staging', etc.) in performance, which can still have application in explaining some regular tank guns.



Page 235
Similar rocket-assisted ammunition has been used to increase the range of artillery shells in Earthshaker platforms and Bombards, but are generally thought to be too complex to waste in sustained artillery barrages.
Which is another way to extend ranges, and probably will include Basilisks unlike the other 'options' for extending range (EG overcharging the guns.) Although how far they extend the range we don't know, although if related to the travelling charge the improvement could be QUITE significant.



Page 236
Because a HE shell does not require a high velocity ot penetrate armour it does not need a large propellant charge within the shell, leaving more space for explosives.
..
..can be used against most targets, but is most effective against infantry and light vehicles.
The sheer size of the explosion can damage armoured vehicles, break tracks, damage running gear or engine parts. The external blast can effect the crew within, stunning or evne killing them, but HE's main drawback is that it lacks the direct penetrating power of anti-tank shells.
It can soft kill tanks or disable, but its not terribly useful otherwise. This is again consistent with the Munitorum manual, although like AT shells it suggests they're not the common means of defeating vehicles.



Page 236
The anti-tank or armor piercing shell (AT or AP for short) is used against hard targets such as enemy tanks or bunkers. The shell is a solid round with a hard adamantine tip, over which the tip of a soft metal cap is added. This cap melts on impact, creating a 'sticking' effect, which helps to prevent the following adamantine tip from glancing off sloped armour or breaking up on impact.
Some AT shells also contain a small high explosive charge and will explode on penetration, aiding secondary damage within a target. Most AT shells do not contain explosives and rely upon sheer velocity (kinetic energy) and the heat of impact to punch through armour.
This isn't exactly consistent in all ways with Munitorum manual, since they treat AP shells (at least the ones with smaller explosive charges) as ultra rare and gnerally not good at penetrating (whereas in the IA1 they penetrate via sheer KE and 'heat', which always tsruck me as a bit odd. As I noted in MM it kinda left a question about what exactly 'conventional' shells were. I suppose by MM definition we might figure Krak (something that is a focused, armor penetrating explosive but not a shaped charge) or some sort of HESH equivalent might quality, although that doens't work with IA given the augur entry. We might not totally rule out at leats some sub-caliber sabot, although probably not as small as true APDS, someting more like SLAP rounds (where the round is only like 70% the diameter of the case, eg a .308 bullet in a .50 cal casing, you might have an 90mm cannon shell in a 120mm case, or similar.)

As an aside with Only War its implied that 'anti tank' shells are kinetic, but they have a hardened (higher density even?) core and higher velocity to penetrate, suggesting they might be some sort of APCR/HVAP type munition (which visually is what the Vanquisher round is in IA1, even though the entry describes discarding sabot. Overall we might just chalk it up to the usual 'it varies depending on region' excuse :P

In any event the fact that a soft cap is added is telling, as we learn here that for 'CONVENTIONAL STEEL' munitions the threshold would be 823 m/s, which gives us a lower limit on such AP shells (and probably more, with the cap, I've see as high as 900+ m/s stated) Assuming a 15-20 kg shell would be at least 5-8 MJ.

The other interesting part is again the whole 'heat of imapct' and sheer KE to penetrate, with 'molten metal' as well as shrapnel penetrating. Because, honestly, that implies the round is penetrating not by momentum or force or mechanical damage effects, but thermal. To put it another way. If it were iron, 150mm thick, and 120mm in diameter (the stated caliber for the Russ, rather than the 'scaled' caliber, which is larger and ludicrous) and about 13 kg of armor. It doesn't neccesarily mean (despite what I assumed before) that the armor is wholly molten or uniformly so, but the thermal energy transmitted on impact (resistance of the material to penetration and slowing down the round) probably pushes it to near-molten temperatures (1800K) given a specific heat of around 400-600 j per kg*K and a starting temp of 300K it would be 600-900 kj per kilogram which is at LEAST some 8-12 MJ, and that ignores the molten bits, inefficiencies, and the fact the round probably is still moving at some velocity to penetrate and do damage and would itself be heated up in the process (similar magnitude probably). Another amusing bit is that the round itself cannot be 'conventional steel', heck the armor itself isn't since it 'resisted' penetration too. Assuming a 15-20 kg projectile, we'd be assuming roughly 1000 m/s velocity, and possibly twice that.

The alternate interpretaiton may not be literally melting, but perhaps refer to the same damage mechanisms of penetration as with modern tank rounds despite the full caliber appearance (and generally solid description) of the ammo. It could be the rounds are APCR or have a dense core, or they can just hurl full caliber rounds that fast but it would require modern tank gun velocitites to achieve that as well, probably, which doesn't really change things either. :P

Page 236
Also called sub-calibre munitions, high velocity anti-tank shells or 'VAnquisher' shells (because they are only fired by the Leman Russ Vanquisher tank). A Vanquisher shell is a solid dart of super-dense metal contained within a lightweight exterior 'shoe' or case. The dart is only about a third of the calibre of the actual shell (hence sub-calibre). Once fired, the case will drop away leaving just the speeding dart.
Except that as I noted in IA1, the picture is of a HVAP/APCR shell. Nevermind the whole 'rifled/smoothbore' inconsistneciy I've noted in the past. Heck the image breakdown even describes an APCR round (mild steel case and high density AP Core, and a ballistic cap. Discarding sabot doesn't need any of that shit, nor would it have a tracer in the back. For a bunch of tank enthusiasits they didn't seem to do their research :P It could be that even with Vanquishers there is still 'variation' - less advanced ones may use APCR (or the versions that were 'squeeze bore') whilst more advanced ones use either discarding sabot or fin stabilized discarding sabot (Depending on whethre the barrel is rifled or not, for example.)


Page 240
Many units are formed as infantry regiments, with tens of thousands of men. But others are trained and equipped as armoured regiments. The tanks and carriers of the armoured regiments form the cutting edge of the Imperium's fighting forces. It is their task to take battle deep into the heart of the enemy, striking fast and hard with overwhelming firepower to smash enemy defences.
Infantry vs armoured regiments. Note that armoured regiments are implied to be smaller, but they also combine troop carriers and tanks togethr, rather than being just uniformly tanks. Further, they are (as other sources have noted) the primary offensive force of the Imperium, utilizing speed and firepower as their tools.
And the implication that infantry regiments might typically be quite large (tens of thousands, as opposed to the 2-6 thousand)



Page 242-243
19th Konig armoured regiment, plus detachments.
Total complement breakdown: 1 Colonel, 17 Captains, 48 Lieutenants, 5 Commissars, 210 Watchamsters, 1,064 other ranks. 1,345 total.

Weapons: 695 laspistols, 166 Close combat weapons of varying type, 865 lasguns, 19 Heavy bolters, 19 Mortars, 19 lascannon, 11 autocannon, 11 missile launchers 20 meltagun, 20 plasma gun, 20 grenade launcher, 20 flamers, 9 heavy flamers.
Vehicles: 45 Leman Russ, 10 Demolishers, 12 Basilisk, 9 Hydras, 11 Sentinels, 9 Sentinel powerlifter, 13 Salamanders, 3 Destoryer (tank hunters), 3 Medusa, 9 Cyclops, 3 bridges (bridgelayers?), 94 Chimeras, 35 Trojans, 6 Atlas, 3 Baneblades, 1 Shadowsword. 266 total.

Temporary units are as follows: 50th Cadian heavy tank company, 1 siege tank HQ, 1 Siege squadron. The Shadowsword is the HQ an dthe Baneblades the Squadron.

24th Pardus Siege Gun company 1 Salamander (presumably command) for the HQ, and 3 Siege guns (or siege gun squadrons, its hard to tell. They look like Medusas but there are only 3 listed, possibly 3 squads of 3.) The Konig have no Medusa I can see so it must be 3 total.
113th Dniepier siege tank company. 1 Siege tank HQ (salmaander command again) and 3 Siege tank squadron (3 demolishers). Peculiarly, the Konig have no Demolishers I can see either, so this means 3 squads of 3.. even though there are ten demolishers. I guess one is a squad of 4.

11th Sareanian Assault Engineer company. 1 Company HQ (Chimera) and Assault engineer platoon, which seems to include a mechanised infantry platoon (plus HQ, all cheimras), a bridging platoon (the bridges), and a demolition platoon (including a Chimera)


The Konig itself break down thus. Firstly the non combat elements: Signals
ATtached to regimental HQ - 3 Armoured recon sentinels (squadron),
1 signals company of 3 Chimera and 2 Trojan,
3 Departmento Munitorum supply company, 3 Sentinel powerlifter and 8 trojan. Cntext that means 24 trojan total and 9 powerlifters.
1 Quartermaster company - 10 Chimera
2 Engineering recovery - 3 Atlas, and 3 Trojan apiece for 12 vehicles total (6 of each)
1 Departmento Munitorum workshop with 3 Trojans

Combat branches:
3 armoured brigade, composing 3 Comapny HQ and 3 armoured squadron of 3 tanks apiece - 12 vehicles per company for 36 tanks total. Actually might be slightly more, as with the defence squadron that comes out to only 41, so that means some squadrons might have up to 4. No other unit seems ot have Russes that arne't Demolishers.

3 Mechanised infantry brigade, each comprising 3 command Salamnders and 3 Mechanised infantry platoon, each platoon having 1 Paltoon HQ, and presumably 4 Chimera squads, plus 1 mechanised infantry heavy weapons platoon (in its own Chimera) Which I estimate to be 63 chimeras total (3 Brigades of 21 tanks each, comrpising 3 command tanks and 3 platoons of 6 Chimera)

1 Regimentla defense squadron of 5 tanks.

1 Artillery brigade, with 1 company HQ comprising one Salamander (Scout or command) and one Chimera (probably HQ) 4 Artillery suqadron of 3 earthshakers each. 12 Earthshaker total.

Anti aircraft company - 1 Company HQ (Salamander?) and 1 AA squadron with 3 Hydra. I suspect it might be 3 squadron, as there are 9 hydra and no other detachment in the Konig (or the temporary assigned units) have any.

1 Armoured recon company. 1 Company HQ (Salamander, probably command) 2 Armoured recon squadrons (4 Salamander apiece, probably scouts) plus 2 armoured recon squadrons of Sentinels. 8 Salamander and 8 Sentinel total.

1 Anti Tank company comprisiong one anti tank squadron of 3 Destroyers.

It does mention units can vary by type and so the silhouttes and numbers are approximations Variaitons to the russ include Exterminator, conqueorr, Vanquisher, and excutioner (but excludes the Demolisher.)

Demolishers can also mean thunderers or Hellhounds (presumably their variants too.)

Command HQ Chimeras can also be Salamander command vhicles.

Basiliks cna represent: Griffon, medusa, bombard, Earthshaker platofrms and Trojan, Medusa platform and/or trojan.
Hydra can also be hydra platforms on tow.

Basically a rather lengthy TO&E again. It reflects IA's propensity to mix regimental types like we've seen in other bokos (EG IA3) rather than keep them 'uniformly one type' as codexes and other sources have suggested. Even allowing for the detachments its pretty significant as a force all things considered.


Page 245
extra gear for tanks - Artificer hull (extra points? Armour?) Armoured track guards, improved comms (obviously), And anti-grenade mesh (extra protection against grenades including melta bombs)


Page 245
The higher echelons of the Imperium's armoured regiments have access to a variety of rare equipment, including a selection of specialist shell types.
Again your importance/status dictates quality of equipment. Which may be why 'named' regiments like Cadians get better gear than conscripts.


Page 245
Beast Hunter shells: These may be used by leman Russ Vanquishers. The shell contains a bio-mutagenic acid and is often used against enormous xeno-morphs.
Like Tyranids. AGain IGNORANCE!


Page 248
in order to keep pace with the rapid advance of the tank squadrons, all infantry attached to an armoured battle group are mounted in Chimeras and organised as Armoured Fist squads. These loosely organised infantry formations are commanded by their own officers, allowing the tank commanders to focus on the destruction of the enemy's own tanks.
Whilst this suggests that when it comes to Armoured 'battlegroups' as opposed to regiments that the infantry is not organic (unless its using 'regiment' and 'battlegroup' synonymously here.. which is not impossible but would be conflating terms.) the terminology seems similar - 'armoured fist' seems to be distinct from 'mechanised' in IA parlance (the Cadian 114st, STranski's group, is 'mechanised') and in context we might take it to mean vehicle-carried infantry either organically appart of an armoured regiment, or such infantry assigned a vhicle and attached to the infantry. Either way it would be a distinct classification from 'mechanised' infantry in those terms and might get around the whole 'mechanised infantry being rare' restriction from the codex and similar (as noted before, just because homeworlds tithing regiments might face limits in providing Chimeras, doesn't mean that Forge world/industrial world or Munitorum-supplied chimeras face that limitation.)

Note that the 5th edition codex does imply quite the opposite, but as I've noted many times, IA and other sources tend to diverge in their definitions (lik ethe way FW has regiments more mixed and less uniform than the Codex implies.)


Page 252
Storm troopers are the elite forces of the Imperial Guard, specialising in commando operations as well as providing a tough core to Imperial Guard infantry during assaults. They have access to specialist equipment such as hellguns and carapace armour, and are carried into battle in Chimera armoured transports.
Amusingly they have hot-shot weapons in the game lists, but we have long known that many sources don't treat the two as being mutually exclusive (some consider them synonymous) even though a hellgun is the las-weapon itself, whereas hot-shot can be the powerpack (or a lasgun with the power pack, whether a magazine style or backpack style power pack.)


Page 252
As well as its own battle tanks, an Armoured Regiment may be supported by specialist siege tanks..
..
Though often regarded as a support unit by the crews of battle tank squadrons.
This includes Thunderers, Demolishers, punishers and Executioners. So these aren't considered 'battle' tanks, or part of 'normal' tank squadrons, at least by FW logic.




Page 256
Even the mighty tank companies of the Imperial Guard need the ubiquitous Imperial Guard infantrymen to accomplish those tasks either unsuitable or beneath the armoured vehicles of the company. They capture objectives and screen their armoured comrade from enemy infantry in close terrain..
Armoured fist squads again.


Page 257
Tank battles tend to be incredibly hostile and fast paced affairs, battlelines swiftly fluctuating over vast distances as one side gains advantage over the other upon the shell-cratered landscape. Few Guardsmen are expected to survive such brutal conditions, but those few who do will be drafted into Armoured Fist Veteran squads, their previous experience lending them an edge in supporting the regiment's or company's armoured vehicles.
unlike other armoured fist units, vets can take either Centaurs or Chimeras, depending on size (up to 5 for Centaur, 6 or more for Chimera) Veteran 'doctrines' can include either Grenadiers (giving them carapace instead of flak) or forward Sentries (camo cloaks and snare mines), or Demolitions (metla bombs for whole squad, one guy with a demo charge.) Which suggests demo charges can be more powreful than metla bombs (an even more powerful man-portable nuke analogue?)

And in context of the quote, we get discussion of armoured warfare for the guard, which echoes alot of 2nd edition and similar sources - fast paced, rather mobile (at least by IG speeds and standards) and brutal. Note again that this suggests that the difference between 'armoured fist' and 'mechanised' is distinct and not just semantics. Although this does contradict(slightly) interpretations form the 5th edition codex, which does impliy Armoured fist and mechanised are the same thing.


Page 259
Sentinel Scout walkers are put to the same use in Armoured Battle groups as they are in regular infantry regiments, scouting the enemy's positions and acting as light screening units...
..
Armoured Sentinel walkers are often utilised by tank companies expecting to meet heavy resistance from infantry units or those operating within the tight confines of an urban enviroment.
Uses for Sentinels. Amusingly both scout and armoured sentinels can mount missile or rocket launchers (no more 'support sentinel' only.) All can use heavy flamer, autocannon, lascannon or multi lasers, but the Armoured one also gets plasm acannon. We also know they can use melta/multimeltas too.


Page 261
Tauros squadrons are a rarity iwthin Armoured Battle Groups, seeming out of place amongst the steel giant sthat form the core of these formations. However, some battle groups make use of them as light strike units, utilising their speed and impressive weaponry to strike at enemy infantry attempting to destroy the company's valuable battle tanks.
Use of the wheeled stuff in armoured battlegroups, a role not unlike Hellhounds or Sentinels really.


Page 262
Many armoured Battle Groups field several squadrons of Hellhounds or one of its less common variants. These light tanks prove highly effective as high mobility reseves, thrown into battle at the crucial moment when the enemy is stretched to breaking point or as anti-infantry forces when the company must fight in close terrain.
It suggests also there may be uncommon variants.


Page 263
Close support artillery are vehicles brought up from their artillery units and attached to a Tank company or Armoured Fist Company to support an attack with direct fire.
Basiliks and Medusa, basically. This agian suggests indirect fire is not typical of the 15 km or so range.


Page 264
For those artillery fire missions where pin-point accuracy is of the utmost importance, a tank company will call on its squadrons of Griffon heavy mortar carriers to move forwards. Though their range and brute firepower cannot match that of the larger Imperial guns..
Griffons when they need mobile firepower. Which tells you something since a number of sources indicate Basiliks can deplyo in moments or evne fire on the move.


Page 265
Each Armoured Fist Platoon is supported by its own dedicated heavy weapons squad to give the infantry covering fire as they move into the attack, and provide the platoon's backbone when on the defensive.
Chimera-borne hevy weapons force.


Page 273
Long exposure to the horrors of battle had undoubtably unhinged Schfeer...
..
..rather than his performance on the battlefield suffering, Schfeer kept on winning battles and to a greater degree than ever before. To his dissenter's surprise his commanders overlooked his unorthodox methods and he was allowed to remain in his lofty position.
Oh dear, how UNCONVENTIONAL. The Guard, as always, will improvise and overlook things if it can bring victory (and assuming a complete idiot is not in charge.)

Page 274
Mounted in Chimera's Stranski knows his troops main advantage is the speed and firepower of their vehicles and believes to hold back or advance cautiously is tantamount to handing the battle to the foe and therefore a crime against the Emperor and the Imperium.
Under Stranski, the Cadian 114th Mechanised Infantry Regiment has earned the nickname 'Blood and Thunder', a reflection of Stranski's character and command style.
Again this suggests Mechanised and armoured fist are not the same thing, but I've gone over that detail before.


Page 275
..the 1st Narmeian Armoured Regiment has developed a reputation as an alite tank force. Their leader demands the highest standards from his men, and has organized the hundred plus tanks of his regiment around a central cadre of veteran crews.
Narmenians of course are from Necropolis, and this again reflects the size of their force.


Page 277
The reason for chosing a particular colour scheme for a regiment's vehicles can be for one or more of the following reasons:
Concealment. By matching the colours and patterns of the current enviroment.
Confusion. By disrupting the shape of the vehicle usually to prevent easy targeting or recognition by the enemy.
Recognition. a particular colour or pattern will allow troops to differentiate between friendly and enemy troops, and also between particular units.
The theoreitical basis and success of applications varies considerably between Imperial Guard units. some schemes are the result of years of research while others are the result of a long standing tradition. Many are simply field applications by frontline troops.
IG camo and its purposes, at least for vehicles. Note again comedy in 'research' being mentioned for supposedly ignorant humans and such.


Page 277
The more complex schemes tend to use the works contained in the 'Tacticus Obscura' section of the Tactica Imperium as their basis. This extensive document outlines the many principles for 'camouflage deception'. It not only covers the effects of colour and pattern but is also an analysis of structural patterns, diffusion, blending distances, obtrusive and unobtrusive disruption and other principles.
Tactica Imperium on 'camo'. I geuss they do rely ons tealth and hiding in some ways! :P
Also obligatory laughing at ignorance being absent here in comprehending things like the principles in making yourself harder to spot.

Page 282
From the lumbering Baneblade tanks of the Imperial Guard to the clunky Gargants of the Orks to the elegant Revenant Titans of the Eldar, all war engines that fall into this category are huge armour-clad constructs, carrying enough firepower to vaporise, smash, or incinerate an entier army.
Implied firepower. Whether the 'vaporize' or 'incinerate' is literal or figurative it might suggest thousands or even millions of megajoules or gigajoules. Although it may not be a literally super-precise figure (and evne then it doesn't tell us how long to do all this.) It does equate Baneblades to Eldar and Ork titans though.


Page 286
Creatures of this immense size [Gargauntuan Creatures] can take on entire armies, devastate cities and lay waste to continents. Normally only Tyranid beasts grow this large, as organisms native to this galaxy struggle to cope with such impossibly heavy organs and limbs. There is, however, one known exception to this: Ork Squiggoths who, according to Imperial bio-magi, should not even be able to move (not that this has ever stopped them from ravaging entire worlds!).
Again indicative of firepower but not duration. If anything its a usefully amusing quote as it implies that the same feats (Attributed to starships - smaller ships can devastate cities whilst grand cruisers and battleships can waste continents) are accomplished considerably faster for starships, given they are much bigger than superheavies or titans.

It also suggests Tyranid superheavies/titan anlogues (and Squiggoths) are require unnatural means to support their sizes. implying perhaps greater durability than 'meat' would imply. Whether it is warp magic or somethign else, is up for debate.


Page 287
Certain super-heavy vehicles of the Imperium are surrounded by a number of protective energy fields called void shields, which utilise Warp technology to displace incoming attacks. These work exactly like power fields, with the exception that collapsed void shields can be raised again. This process is slow and requires vast quantities of energy, supplies of which can be quite erratic in combat conditions.
Warp-based voids again. Powerfields being 'like' voids either means they are warp based as well (possible, but unlikely, as they often are physical forcefield barriers) or it means they're similar in that they are designed to also deflect/disperse/displace or otherwise redirect attacks. Maybe they're spatial distortions like Tau 'shields' (they could 'displace' attacks' to.)
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Cykeisme
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Cykeisme »

From a non-SoD perspective, I'm not certain if the authors intended void shields' Immaterium-based mechanisms to address the issue with having a heat sink for stored waste energy.
Nevertheless, it does make sense, since having an alternate dimension to dump energy (possibly even momentum from enemy attacks makes a lot of sense.


Also, has a link ever been made between void shields, and the Gellar fields used for travelling in the Immaterium?

It seems possible there would be some sort of overlap in their operating principles, although I'm basing this solely on their shared traits of being "protective magic/tech bubbles" and "having something to do with the Immaterium".
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Now we move onto IA2 second edition. This will be 3 parts, but its still smaller than the first time around I did this.

Part 1


Page 8-9 - lists the 'domains' of the Adpeuts astartes and various homeworlds of Space Marine chapters. The interesting one really is 'Traekonnis Major' the home of the Avenging Sons, as since IA3 this one has plagued me. It turns out I was wrong initially.. rather than being close to TErra, it was actually close to the Southeastern part of Ultima segmentum, not far from Vilamus (where the Marines Errant lived) It looks to be (baesd on comparisons between the IA map and 5th and 6th editions Codex: SM maps) its 10-15K LY from Nocturne and Rynn's World. Figure roughly 15K Light years, give or take 5K either way. Travel time between Terra and Avenging osns homeowrld, homeworld to Taros for the Avenging sons as per IA 3, which is 120,000-240,000c straight line. Which is fast, but several times slower than I figured.
On the other hand, this also means the Imperial envoy from Terra had to travel a good 40-50K LY or so to reach Traekonnis Major to begin with, and there are hard limits on that. We know from the various timeframes in 5th edition (core rulebook) as well as 6th edition (core rules and Tau codex) that the third sphere was well under way towards the end of 997, and Taros campaign took place within 998 of the 41st Millneium. Which gives less than a year of travel time, and more strictly interpreted a matter of months (minus the travel time for the Avenging sons) which itself points to hundreds of thousands of c, but certainly no less than 40-50,000c at a bare minimum.


Page 10
The Imperium is the largest human empire ever to have bestridden the galaxy and it numbers a million worlds and more.
..
..the Imperium's boreders wax and wane in an eternal cycle of conquest and expansion, sacrifice and loss. For each planet devoured by xenos invaders or torn down by recidivists, another is calimed in the name of the Emperor...
Million-plus worlds. Again this probably reflects 'known' worlds, the important, famous shit like Terra or Armageddon or Cadia, because they really have no idea of how big their empire might be, and even the 'named' worlds may fluctuate from time to time.

And I'd also figure its probably reflecting the major 'systems' at that. So you have tons of lesser known worlds/systems, as well as other worlds within the major 'systems' that also add to the larger 'millions' or 'billions'. And as I alluded to before terms like 'hive' and 'forge' worlds are probably open ended so you probably have alls orts of astornomical bodies (moons, planetoids, ginormous asteroids, etc.) that get inhabited and made into 'worlds' which reflects that 'billions of hive worlds' from Heart of Rage or billions of industrialised worlds from FFG. There might be billions of inhabited 'bodies' in the Imperium, but they simply reflect a far smaller number of star systems that happen to be relatively densely settled And in a bunch of isolated colonies, outposts, frontier worlds and the like and I think that probably explains the Imperium :P



Page 10
..would be Space Marines begin a decade long process of implantation, indoctrination and genetica nd physical enhancement..
Length of time to make Space Marines. Which is about the same time as it takes to clone a Fetttrooper. At least the Space Marine won't be used as a meat droid.



Page 11 - not going to comment since I'm not as enthused with the Astartes as with IG, but SM as per forgeworld standard, get the best shit. Cuz SPACE MARINE. AS mcuh as I've liked FW's improvements, some of their approaches to the fluff simply never change :P


Page 11
At the time [of the Great Crusade] they [Space Marine vehicles] were also not just restricted to use by the Space Marine Legions and there is evidence that the Imperial Army - the combined forerunner of the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy - also used the same standard vehicles.
Because things were LESS IGNORANT then, although the stuff we learn form the HH novels say otherwise.

This is probably a reference to earlier 1st/2nd edition where Imperial Guard still had access to Predators and Rhinos as well as having Chimeras and Russes and shit There was some overlap with Epic, after all :P



Page 11
In the thousands of years since those legendary times, many vehicle designs have been lost, and knowledge and science have become so debased that the Adeptus Mechanicus is unwilling to court the wrath of the Machine God by attempting to recreate them. STC patterns migth be discovered, see considerable use and then fall into disfavour for a myraid of possible reasons.
..
Some vheicles currently in use by the Adeptus Astartes, such as the Land Raider, have been lost and then rediscovered.
Do you eve get tired of hearing them prate about the IGNORANCE AND SCIENCE... up until they decide they need to sell more models and then try to retcon that in?

Mind that we have all those examples from IA1 of 'counterfeit' Baneblades, reproduced VAnquishers, and the fact they are totally ignorant of 'pure' STC yet somehow manage to reporduce STC diagrams that they are sure AREN'T false...

I suppose again this is basically their attempt to cover their asses with the 'rediscovery.'


Page 11
Recnetly discovered archives describe a battle tank used by the Space Marine Legions during the Great Crusade...
...
This medium-sized, tracked vehicle was equipped witha remotely operated turret-mounted weapon system thought lost since the time of the Scouring, and outclassed many of the tanks fielded by the Imperium against the rogue Tech-Priests serving the Blind King.
Occlusiad in M37. Remote weapons are rather common for SPACE MARINES. but again older is better. :P




Page 11
..some Space Marine Chapters have ties to nearby forge Worlds and can draw on these in times of need- The Adeptus Mechancius and the Space Marines long ago swore mutual oaths of service to the Imperium and ancient charters exist requiring Forge Worlds to supply Chapters with arms and armour when required.
In these cases vehicles are constructed to order and can only be supplied to the specific Chapter. Strict monitoring ensures that they do not fall into less trustworthy hands, and once complete, the new vehicle is delivered ot the Chapter's base of operations...
..
The strict security around such arrangements is essential because Space Marine vehicles rank amongst the most potent technology available to the Imperium, and help to give the Space Marines an edge in battle.
AdMech and Space Marines barter each other's services in order to gain what they need. This is what the Imperium runs on! politics and bartering power. And of course special shit means extra special secrecy, so it can't fall into the hands of the bad guys or traitors - even though it happens. Remember Chapters go Rogue sometimes!

It also mentions that Chapters stockpile vehicles based on construction in case of attrition and suchlike, so stockpiles are probably far from standardised, at least for basic designs.

Really it just speaks about the AdMech's obsessive tech control, and how they only do shit when they need to/are forced to.


Page 11
In the final year of the 38th Millneium, the lords of the Forge world of Phaeton were stunned when their primary manufactorum produced a variant of the Land Raider not described in any archive or known machine canon. Outwardly, the hull differed little from the thousands produced before, yet its internal systems were constructed to such a high tolerance that, once the artificers had completed inital machine supplications, the result was declared superior amongst war machines. Subsequent investigations determined that the forge was operating under a deep-core production protocol that took millenia to cycle through, thus no Tech-Priest had ever witnessed it before. It seemed that at the dawn of the Imperium, some unknown magos had coded a slow-burn quota sequence into the forge's automated production nodes, so that it produced variants of common patterns of vehicle according to his pre-cognitive calculations regarding what would be needed in the future in order to prosecute the wars of the Imperium.
I find this amusing for various reasons even if it is an attempted retcon for new modesl despite IGNORANCE. I mean one thing there's automated factories. There's 'precognitivie' production calculations and quotas that extend into millenia. Even with all the blithering about supersittion and how older designs are better, its pretty amusing and interesting even so and even kinda clever I think (as far as sustaining the ignorance yet providing avenues for new Space Marine models go.)




Page 11
To date, the forge has produced seven more variants of common Space Marine war machines, some exceptional examples of existing patterns, others entirely novel and never seen before or since. An entire sub-cult has emerged in recent years based around this, a body of Tech-Priests devoted to predicting the bounty of Phaeton's primary forge and working to ensure that its creations are given all due reverence.
More specialized variants automatically fabricated. They predict disagreement over what should e done with the machines (venerate them and keep them out of battle, or let the Space Marines use them so they can achieve their 'glorious destinies') and that this conflict might lead to a schism sooner or later.




Page 14
Adeptus Astartes combat doctrine is very different to that of Imperial Guard forces and largely dictated by the size of a Chapter and the nature of the mission, who are only required to take on the most vital and arduous of operations. Combat doctrine can generally be described in terms of rapid response and rapid strike, although all Space Marines are masters of all form of warfare. Most Chapters lack the numerical strength and indeed the inclination to hold on to or dominate large areas of ground, instead providing forces for short deployments with specific and strategically vital objectives.
Chapters operate a very flexible command structure and although each is divided into ten companies, these generally provide a pool of warriors which can be combined to create strike forces of varying size.
How Space Marines are specialier than Imperial Guardsmen, although in a perverse sort of way its dictated more by supply and demand than anything else. Space Marines are hard to replace, whereas Guardsmen aren't, so their tactics (And logistics) have to be better to make use of them. It makes sense, even if it does emphasize the whole SPACE MARINES R SPECIAL crap I loathe. And it ocmments on the differences in the way they fight, of course.




Page 14
Each company will have its own complement of transport vehicles, but the heavier armour is invariably drawn from the central Chapter Armoury - the exception to this is the Chapter's 1st Company, which often maintains its own Land Raiders and Stormravens as transports for its Terminator squads. Companies do not generally maintain Predators, Vindicators, Hunters or Whirlwinds as part of their permanent strength..
So basically bikes, Rhinos, maybe Razorbacks and Land Speeders. But none of the tanks or artillery. As 'masters of all forms of warfare' Marines are naturally trained in operating all their vehicles and in their tactics, although some are naturally specialists in the same way that Assault Marines and Devastators evolve.


Page 14
All Space marine vehicles are fitted with spinal interfaces that link the custodian's body by plugging into his power armour and black carapace. This allows them to become part of the vehicle, granting intuitive communion with its controls and systems.
Which is surprisingly rather useful, all things considered. This seems relatively common to many of their vehicles as well./



Page 14
The role of a Space Marine armoured unit is ot deliver the decisive blow to an enemy at the critical point in the battle. It is deployed to break an enemy defensive system and, in close coordination with other arms, to destroy the most dangerous hostile units. The paramount principle of a Chapter's tank deployment and tactics is cooperation with its infantry squads, the infantry-tank assault force concentrating a Chapter's fire and shock power into a narrow sector for breakthrough and deep penetration operations. This is the preferred offensive method used by most Chapters for ground operations in the open field.

More on Space Marine fighting styles and how it influences its vehicles and requirements.


Page 14
The Space Marines' modus operandi focuses therefore on short term operations and rapid stirkes, attacking fast with overwhelming force before redeploying to another war zone.
More on Space marine methods.


Page 15
The nature of Space Marine opterations means that there is often little time to establish artillery positions or for the lengthy work of reducing an enemy's fighting strength by attritional bombardment. Arillery is invariably of the mobile, close support variety, able ot move with the rest of the force and deliver short, sharp salvoes of fire to saturate a target immediately before or even during an ongoing assault.
Basically no heavy artillery unless you're Iron Warriors. Or maybe Imperial Fists. Or unless Forge World decides otherwise, since it used to be Space Marines didnt use superheavies either (until the FELLBLADE.)




Page 15
The heaviest firepower available to a force commander is provided by the Chapter's fleet. Orbital bombardment by the macro weapons of a battle barge or stirke cruiser is a very blunt tool for a surgical strike force. Inaccurate, although devastating, an orbital strike is used to prepare the ground for a major assault, for destructive fire against large targets, for harassing fire or as a weapon of last resort. It might be able to hit a city or a map grid, but it cannot be relied upon to hit a specific target such as an individual bunker within that city or a moving target such as an enemy tank column. It lacks the speed to react to new targets or the accuracy for counter-artillery battery fire. Other factors also restrict its use. Spaceships must be pre-positioned in low orbit, which is not always possible or desirable during rapid assaults or where the world in quesiton possesses effective orbital defences.
Advantages and limitations of orbital bombardment. It goes without saying that this could say much about the limits of space warfare (limits on range due to accuracy issues, limits on firepower due to damage it inflicts) but there can be context related issues (the kinds of guns being fired/how they are aimed/what kind of target is involved, as well as how much collateral damage is tolerated or to be avoided.) Note also we know of longer ranged bombardments (They're becoming surprisingly more common) so the 'low orbit' thing might reflect certain kinds of guns (like using point defense weapons for orbital strikes) or certain other consideraitons (Accuracy, visual targeting, etc.)




Page 15
The servants of the Omnissiah abhor almost all forms of progress, distrustful of advancements that might cause machien to turn upon man, as indeed it is held by some once happened. New War machines are therefore not invented but discovered...
..
The Space Marines exist apart form the bulk of humanity, however, and the technology they utilise is of a distincitve class visibly different from that available to most within the Imperium.
..
..the Techmarines of the Adeptus Astartes know that their war machines are more favourably disposed to modification and augmentation than those utilised by the Imperial Guard or other divisions within the Imperium's sprawling military. Thus it is not unusual to uncover accounts of Space Marine commanders confronted with novel tactical situations ordering their Techmarines to modify their vehicles or weapons in some manner, and for a solution to be forthcoming.
the comedy of this is that there are tons of ways 'inventions' happen. I mentioned the Vanquisher reproduction, there's always various counterfeit vehicles, or adaptations of existing designs (because they stuck a different weapon inside it, or a different engine. There are always 'discovered' designs that are of questionable accuracy/purity or provenance (Crassus?). And there are all those jury rigged, rebuilt and modified vehicles by the IG and (as we learn now) the Space Marines at need. Naturally, this pisses off the Techpriests when people other than them make new machines. Although it doesn't stop them from building it as if it were sanctioned. :P

Its hard to take this ignorance thing seriously when there are so many blatant examples of invention going on and noone ever gets punished for it.


Page 15
..its is far from uncommon for delegations of Tech Priests to demand access to a Chapter's forge having heard of such modifications being undertaken, but few Masters of the Forge are likely to suffer such insult. Nevertheless, even the mighty Space Marines must rely upon the Adpetus Mechanicus at times, and so wise Chapter Masters act to ensure the Tech-Priests are appraised of the Forge's developments, and where neccessary, new patterns are ceded to them for further study.
Which only reinforces in me the idea that the AdMech are outraged that other people might have access to or control over tech they don't. Its more about their monopoly than about alot of the stuff blathered on about.


Page 15
Mankind is instilled with a deep-seated distrust of machines, despite that life on many worlds, and certainly travel betwen them, would be impossible otherwise. Though few but the highest-ranked Tech-Priests have any suspicions as to the source of this distrust, its roots likely lie in the dim and distant era known as the Dark Age of Technology. At some point in that lost age, Mankind's technology turned upon him, artificially wrought thinking machines plunging countless worlds into an age of night. The horrors of that time are in the main forgotten, rendered down to a kernel of terror and superstition...
Given that we know Battle Robots are built in the HH with 'suppressed' AIs that have the potential to go insane, its not terribly shocking that such beliefs might exist. I'd be afraid of killer robots too. And there is of course all the Chaos possessed/corrupted tech we've seen (the First and Only battle robots, the possessed titan in Dark Adeptus, etc.)



Page 15
Since then machines that think like men have been declared anathema, the worst kind of machine heresy and an affront to the Omnissiah and all of Mankind.

Yet, the Imperium relies still on logic engines for numerous tasks. Such machines are subject to countless superstitions, and their workings and the secrets of their creation are known only to a scant few Tech-Priests. Some may verge on the thinking machines of old, while others no doubt utilise harvested or artificially cultured biological matter at their core. Regardless of their specifics, many are held to contain a 'machine spirit', a machine anima that transcends its physical form like the soul of a living being. It is to this ill-understood core that a Tech-Priest makes obeisance before performing maintenance, and to tit that an operator must pray before striking the Rune of awakening.
Which reinforces what we already know - some AI-analogue machine spirit stuff for the Imperium is zombie cyborg tech (eg the mechanical merged with organic) and some of it is genuniely artificial. The distinction between the two, and between how this stuff is approved and others isn't, again seems fairly arbitrary.



Page 15
Some machine spirits, especially those of the mightiest war machines, are even said to develop certain characteristics for which they become known. Some are particularily bellicose, others fiercely loyal to their custodians. Some are capricious and might refuse an operator's commands, while others respond flawlessly.
Whatever the case, the machine spirit is held to be far more than a machine process, for were it not, it would transgress the most fundamental tenets of Machine Lore.
Which we've seen with starships and titans and some land vehicles (like Land Raiders.) It seems the Space marines get access to even more vehicles like that, even if some of them are 'old'. This in turns suggests that a certain level of automation in at least some vehicles exists and the MAchien spirit thing is, in fact, not entirely a joke. That doesn't mean every lasgun has a self-aware computer in it (although for all we know it does and thats a big factor in the ease of maintenance) but if enough AI-like shit exists and responds, then the people of the Imperium (not knowing better) might assume all such technology does.




Page 17 - War of the False Primarch. M33 and mysterious as hell and took place in Segmentum Pacificus. 5 Chapters (Red Talons, Death Eagles, Space Sharks, flesh Eaters and Charnel Guard are used to destroy 11 other traitor Chapters and destroy their homeworlds.



Page 17
The 6th Company of the Rampagers Chapter advances 3,000 kilometres in a bold, armour-borne operation, crossing the Burning Plains of Dabenlar III's equatorial desserts and toppling the outflanked and ill-prepared rebel theocracy in a single night of retribution and bloodshed.
..
..the Chapter asserts recruitment rights over the population from which it draws aspirants to this day.
We dont know if they had extra fuel supplies stowed on board, or how long it took, but it indicates they had a long travel endurance. That's right up there with Defixio and similar examples I've alluded to in the past.

Also a world a Chapter has 'rights' over. It probably means exchanging oaths of protection/stewardship in return for a tithe of young men who can be made into Astartes. And thus ties more than the Chapter Homeowrld to a given Marine Chapter.



Page 17
Following the Scourge of Lastrati during the Athalor Crusade by forces of the Black Templars Chapter commanded by Marshal Gervhart, nihilistic penitence cults rise from the ashes and threaten to drag the entire sub-sector into anarchy. The Storm Giants Chapter launches a series of punitive operations against key demagogue covens and their followers, restoring order with an iron fist.
Internal security matters more than religious freedom. The Ministorum's shit can be as much a problem as a solution, as we see.

Page 17
When the Rogue Trader Lord Admiral Khorlu is tasked by the High Lords themselves with penetrating the benighted Veil of Kanth in search of the fabled Beta-Garmon system, he invokes ancient familial bonds and secures a demi-comapny of the Silver skulls Chapter to aid him in this perilous quest..
..
..at its successful conclusion, Lord-Admiral Khorlu cedes th world to the Silver Skulls in honour for their services.
More Space MArines making world conquests. Again they can evidently 'claim' non-trivial portions of territory.


Page 18
..impose a ring of steel about the world of Origo at the direct request of Segmentum High Command.
...
..total war engulfing the seven other settled bodies of the Origo system..
Eight 'settled bodies' - not necesarily just planets, but multiple 'locations' in the system settled. My mindset has been moving towards the idea that worlds (major worlds at least) have significant habitation and industrialization (think about Boros prime form Dark Creed.)


Page 18
Despite shocking losses the Chapter emerges victorious, although many survivors must undergo mnemonic purgation protocols lest any tain of corruption result from the Warp-spawned insanity each witnessed.
REference to the 'Space Marines get minds purged when contacting Chaos' stuff from earlier fluff.


Page 18
The Red Scorpions Chapter delivers the manufactory world of Helios from a massive Ork invasion. For returning the planet and its resources to the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Helios pattern missile launcher is prioritised for the Chapter.
AdMech 'maufactory' world. So the AdMech owns some non-forge worlds (or non Knight Worlds.. which FFG often calls Domains or similar). The Imperium has their own manufactory/Industrial worlds as well, and some seem to be shared (like Vostroya).


Page 18
Deploying by grav-chute directly into the sprawling fortifications, the Elysians discover the fort is the domain of madmen and fiends, and an immediate astro-telepathic call for aid is transmitted.
Grav Chute deployments can deploy directly into fortresses. Why they didn't do this at Taros, I have no freaking clue. Space Marines even could have helped.
Also They had an astropath to communicate directly for extra aid. Having your own ftl comm on the ground can be of use, it seems.



Page 18
When the insidious Dark Eldar use psycho-active poisons to sow anarchy and madness in the population of the hive world of Vaust...
DE psycho poison stuffages.



Page 19
... an endoparasitical xenos life form spawned within his skull which is controlling his actions and slowly consuming his soul.
Source of an IG rebellion. Once truth is discovered his troops turn on him. end up pardoned by the Space Marine commander. Surprisingly non grimdark. In any case it shows one of the myriad of Xenos dangers and shit. Corruption can't always be seen externally.




Page 19
A conclave of Eldar Farseers from the Iyanden Craftworld appears...
..
The inscrutable xenos issue the planetary ruler with a simple demand - the entire human population must depart Thule within the month or be ejected by force.
Leader abandons and the Crimson Fists appear to protect them and masscare most of the Eldar before they flee. We dont know what kind of world it is, but it implies evacuating millions if not billions of people iwthin a month. Presumably the Eldar know or believ ethe Imperium is capable of it, or else they wouldn't bother asking (since that sacrifices the element of surprise and they aren't stupid enough to risk their people simply to issue a pointless warning.) Also surprisingly non grimdark as the Eldar are showing compassion to 'lesser' xenos, although forcing the humans to depart also achieves their ends without killing Eldar in the process.



Page 19
The militant Inquisitor Malphas Kroh of the Ordo Malleus employs a precog-coven to predict an assault by Chaos Space Marines of a World Eaters warband at Garanhir. His punitive intervention sparks a general uprising which he puts down a day before the berserkers arrive.
Precog coven to anticipate and intercept Chaos forces. Suggests at least days-worth of accurate warning, perhaps weeks. Not exactly Eldar grade farseeing, but not bad for 'just' the Imperium.



Page 19
[quoe]The Howling Griffons utilise their advantage in firepower, armour and speed by launching a series of devastating lightning attacks against the hordes before relieving the cities. Side by side, the Space Marines and the surviving planetary forces scour Dennar IV of the enemy, forging debts of blood and honour that remain to this day.[/quote]
Non Grimdark howling Griffons. Almost makes me reconsider my opinion of them from Chapter War :P




Page 20
Faced with planetary death at the hands of Abbadon the Despoiler's dreaded Planet Killer warship, the Imperium is forced to abaondon the world of Bealtis IV. Even as key units and assets are withdrawn...
Someone is a Gordon Rennie fan (Belatis being the world in Execution Hour.)



Page 20
712.M41 Magdelon Confrontation. Ragnar Blackmane of the Space Wolves leads his brethren against a splinter warband of the renegade Bleak Brotherhood.
Well that gives us a rough idea of when Ragnar would have been in command of Space Wolves. IIRC he was still in command around the turn of the millenium, so that suggests he's been in charge for nearly 3 centuries. Oddly, assuming there is no contradiction between the Space Wolf novels and this stuff (which isn't guaranteed, mind, I dont remember exact details of the Space Wolf stuff) Logan was 700 years old when Ragnar was still a Blood Claw (Ragnar's Claw), which would mean he was nigh onl 1000 years old by the time of the Armageddon war and 13th Black crusade.



Page 21
A gruelling war of attrition develops between the coutnelss Krieg siege troops and Xaphan's traitorous defenders, which soon escalates as Chaos Space Marines join the war, drawing in Imperial Space Marines, including the Dark Angels Chapter. Unprecedneted levels of bloodshed draw the denizens of the Warp...
HAH! It involved a few tens of millions of Krieg TOTAL, it started out as attrition from the beginning (they actually constructed it this way) - so literally to the point they didn't even bother having any air or orbital support to interdict outside forces (thus inviting Chaos Space Marines to waltz in) and even then they had to trick the Dark Angels into getting involved (the other Space Marines didn't come in until later.) And evne then it was hardly unprecedneted levels of bloodshed, since we're still talking 'millions' lost over nearly two decades. Expect a good deal of historical revisionism for early conflicts.



Page 21
The Dark Hands Space marines Chapter and the 39th Cadian Shock Trooper Regiment rid several worlds in the Chinchare system of the xenos Hrud, halting what is determined by Ordo Xenos investigators to have been the beginning of a potentially devastating entropic infestation.
Hrud and entropic infestation again.



Page 22
The Death Strike Chapter's 3rd Company is badly mauled fighting overwhelming nubmers of recidivists during the Verdan II Counter Strike. The 3rd are saved from desturction when three more full strength companies are deployed to relieve its beleaugured squads during the subsequent Verdan II Extraction. Having completed the Extraction, the Chapter Master of the Fleet orders Verdan devastated from orbit, unleashing mass yield orbital bombardment which leaves nothing living on the world below.
Orbital bombardment of unknown duration, involving the ships of no more than four companies (and the Chapter Master) mass extinction a world to unknown degree. Assuming a dozen escorts, half a dozen strike cruisers and a couple battel barges (About half a potentil fleet, possibly with more escorts) each ship would deliver some 50 teratons on average if we figured a 1 billion mass extinction threshold for an earthlike world. If we figure between a day and a week you get between 83 and 579 megatons a second. Even assuming half a year (6 months being average endurance for starships as per FFG) you'd still be looking at least at a couple megatons a second average.



Page 22
Chief Librairan Tigurius of the honoured Ultramarines Chapter leads the charge of the 4th Company to victory at Boros, unleashing a staggering display of psychic hellfire that incinerates uncounted greenskins and breaks the Ork Horde.
We dont know how many Orks, but it sounds impressive. Megajoule to gigajoule at least depending on how you interpret 'incinerate'.



Page 22
Inquisitor Lord Coteaz of the Ordo Malleus leads the planet-wide exorcism of Opridia, casting out a million Daemonhosts and slaying the Daemon Prince Karpathi the Occludor. Crucial to the Inquisitor's victory is the deployment of the 2nd Company of the Exorcists Chapter, whose Librarians enacted Rites of Detestation unknown outside of their Chapter Cult.
Its possible to exorcise the possessed/daemonhosts The hosts may even have survived the process somewhat intact (Although that's not guaranteed.) If they did, we have more illumnati types.



Page 23
..a combined force of the Raven Guard chapter of the Adpetus Astartes and the 181st Elysian Drop Troop Regiment of the Imperial Guard launches a daring planetstrike operation against the world of Kastorel-Novem...
..
When the Elysians face defeat, Captain Korvydae leads his Raven Guard force to their relief, but his noble deed surrenders initiative and leads to the Imperial force's ultimate defeat. As a consequence, the entire sector is lost beneath the green tide of Orks.
Historical revisionism at its finest. Had he been less of a blithering idiot the Elysians would not have needed saving to begin with. Give him credit for blaming the Elysians for his failure, though.





Page 23
998.M41 Taros Campaign Elements of the Raptors Chapter lead the Imperium's effort to reclaim the mining world of Taros, the xenos tau having annexed it with the collusion of its traitorous Imperial commander. Though many individual glories are earned, the Imperium sustains heavy losses and is fored to abandon the planet and its turncoat population to their new alien orverlords.
More historical revisionism. The Raptors barely participated in any significant way at Taros, and certainly not in ways described in this book (which actually would have been useful to the battle.)




Page 27 - Arkhan Land playing Indiana Jones and the AdMech of Doom in the undegroudn libarary labryinths of Mars. Also mention of how all space Marines used to use Land Raiders until the Heresy, then the supply dried up sa the only Forge World that was dedicated to building it was captured by Horus and how it got restricted to Space Marine use only, and the order nevere being reversed since Big E got dumped in the Golden Throne.



Page 27
..the Land Raider was one of the few commonly available vehicles which could, when deployed with skill and in sufficient numbers, threaten enemy Titans.
Possibly only scout titans (like Storm of Iron) and we dont know in what numbers (although it can't be huge, since there are perhaps maybe much more than a dozen per Chapter for the first company.


PAge 27
..the Land Raider has therefore remained a vehicle almost exlcusive to the Space Marine Chapters for the past 10,000 years. The few exceptions are those allocated to Inquisitors and especially influential Rogue Traders who utilise them in their private armies, both groups vested with unusual freedom in this and many other regards.
There ARE minimal exceptions to the Emperor's decree at least, but they seem rare (Inquisitors and Rogue Traders).. which makes you wonder why they consider the Emperor's decree to be otherwise so absolute.

I also suspect the AdMech make use of it for their own purposes.



Page 28
the Terminus Ultra is a rare configuration of the standard pattern Land Raider that makes use of the vehicle's inherent modularity. Being compatible with a range of weapon configuration, the vehicle mounts additional sponson lacsnnon in place of its side assault hatches, and a turret mounted twin lascannon in place of its usual heavy bolters. These weapons require an inordinate amount of power, the additional reactor systems required displacing the entirety of the Land Raider's troop carrying capacity.
A Land Raider's powerplant can handle 8 lascannon, but that's the limit as it requires extra reactors (and presumably fuel). apparently the engines can't handle it alone.



Page 28 - more typical LR fluff - can fight in vaccuum, on the ocean floor, in any enviroment and iwsthand hard radiation and micro-meteorite impacts and hold off even virus and chemical threats.



Page 28
Every Land Raider contains a potent battle cogitation core that aids its crew in the operation of its numerous weapons and secondary systems. In the Phobos pattern vehicle this is an M32 'Cyclops' class battle cogitator, one of the rarest and most capable of these arcane processing engines. The machine spirit said to dwell within is known for its devotion to duty and to its crew, and some are even capable of independent operation.
REference to the 'awareness' of the Land Raider. Which we know is true (There's that Crimson Fists Land Raider during the Rynn's World fight against Orks, for example.)


Page 28
Primary power is provided by a Mars Pattern adaptable thermic combustor reaction engine...
..
Secondary features of the pattern include atmospheric sampling equipment, rad-repellor, air filtration and purification unit, multi-spectral optic periscopes around the turret rings, gene-coded controls for security purposes and slaved remote targeting systems to control the sponson weapons.
More special toys for Land Raiders.



Page 28
Each Land Raider also carries a range of command and control equipment. Individual screens allow a commander to monitor his unit's bio-status readouts via sensorium core ex-links in each battle-brother's armour, and these are relayed through the vehicle's communication conduits. There is also a holographic tactical display and direct interface to the battle cogitator. These provide the vehicle commander with access to all the battlefield information he needs..
More Land Raider Toys, pertaining to its sensors and Command and control stuff.



Page 29
The Land Raider's armour plating represents the very pinnacle of the Adpetus Mechanicus' knowledge, such techniques only utilised on much larger vehicles such as Titans.
So anything a Land Raider has a Titan probably also has, and similar. I'd not be surprised if other high end superheavies had it, since nowadays they treat them all as being roughly equal.



Page 29
The adaptability of the STC design means locally available materials can be used to replace the advanced alloys if such field repairs are necessary, but it takes the consecrated systems and specialised skills of a Space Marine Chapter forge or an Adpetus Mechanicus Forge World to manufacture the materials needed to produce new Land Raiders.
In theory it probably means you can literally build them out of anything, and you can repair them with anything, but the fact they use specific (and hard to build) materials suggests that not all the materials are equal (it goes without saying that this might say something about the whole 'conventional steel' thing, but I'll get to that in time.)
And the use of local materials rather than the 'advanced alloys' probably has tradeoffs in strength or protection or whatever (although you could make arguments about how much of a difference.. it migth be hard to argue greater than an order of magnitude difference say.)



Page 29
The inner armoured layer and structural supports of the Land Raider are constructed of Adamantium, and above this is a titanium/plasteel composite plate. This is used to reinforce the locations on the vehicle that are most exposed to enemy fire such as the assault bay, front glacis, outer hatch doors and hull side. Next is a thermo-plas fibre mesh and the first of two ceramite layers. The first layer absorbs and dissipates energy, an effective protection against high power laser weaponry. The second is an ablative layer, the vehicle's first line of defence against extreme heat and melta weapons. The result is a skin of armour less than a third as thick as, but many times more resilient than almost any other material used by the armies of the Imperium or those of its enemies.
This was the source of the original 'conventional steel' stuff.. which was alternately 365mm (From Chapter approved and later early Imperial armour supplements) and later 300mm (in the revised Imperial armour books.) So now its down to just 'less than a third as thick, but many times more resilient.'
Depending on how you interpret it it would probably be 'many times' better (at least 3 by the difference in thickness) but if it had an equivalent 'thickness' you might combine the two (I'm not sure how accurate that inteprretation imght be.) Either way, it suggests that they might be more durable than the 'conventional steel' arguments of the past, although that is still a matter of interpretation (For example, some people insist that newer overrides older in some cases, such as older iterations of Space Hulk were overriden by newer, which tossed out the Space hulk gigaton nukes. Sucha n interpretation might apply here, but naturally not everyone can agree with that.)
If we assume 'third as thick, many times more resilient' means that Land Raider hulls are many times more resilient than armors 3 times thicker than theirs (which means some 95-100 mm or 285-300mm) it could mean equivalent to at least 2-3 x greater (570-600 to 855-900 millimeters basically.) So at worst its not much different than previous (although whether you argue it as 300 or 365 mm is up for debate) and at best its significantly more durable than previous. Or you could argue its more open to debate now. Such is the nature of interpretation.



Page 31
The space Marines found the rebels of Grissen firmly entrenched within their sprawling cities and fortifications, and despite Imperial Navy bombardments on a near apocalyptic scale, the rebels had been able to hold out, even as their cities burned and their bastions fell about them. In fact, Munitorum Strategio-savants eventually realised that the more the Imperial Navy vessels pummelled Grissen from orbit, the more cover the rebels were afforded by the twisted and anarchic ruins...
Orbital bombardment drawbacks.Again you'd think that orbital bombardment would be effective at purging people rather than just giving them places to hide, but it depends on just how much collateral damage is tolerated and how powerful the shots being used are. Dumping large quantities of energy into a planetary ecosphere is not neccesarily a good thing for its climate and local life (climate change, anyone?)

Besides it not like we don't know orbital bombardment can range from 'sub nuclear' yields (something only somewhat more powerful than modern artillery or bombing) to nuclear-equivalent (kiloton or megaton). We have examples of each.



Page 31 - Land Raider redeemer, added flamestorm cannons instead of hurricaine bolters in the Crusader variant. Proof of on the fly modifcation of the Land Raider by Techmarines that does not somehow represent innovation.



Page 32 - Phobos pattern land rail- has auto sealing crew and commander hatches, Omni-directional gene-coded control columns, morphic commander's seat with spinal implant interface, auto-tarot reader (prediction? Divination?) Tactical holo-sphere, magnetic bolter rack,, Commander's Augur linked to the Machine spirit.


Page 33 - sponson wepaons - Godhammer twin linked astartes lascannons require barrel replacement every 2000 firings. Also has a slaved, multispectral remote targeting surveryor.


Page 36
All Land Raiders carry a tactical holosphere and squad status displays, but the Promethus augments this with a long range signals amplex, a two-way signal booster, for squad-to-squad, ground-to-air, and ground-to-orbit sensorium and vox-communion. The Prometheus has some features in common with the Damocles...
..
..it utilises secure mutli-band communications for coordination with allied forces and transmission monitoring equipment for intercepting and de-crypting enemy signals, and also incorporates a multi-spectral ground surveillance auspex for locating and tracking enemy forces. The information provided by this can then be shared with other Imperial forces s required.
Enhanced Command and control of Land Raider Prometheus. The interesting thing is the communication between vehicles, orbit, and individual troopers, as well as being able to monitor/decrypt enemy and friendly signals. What's more they can share both visual/sensor and audio data with other Imperials (vai that vox relays/network they share with other Imperial forces) that the Prometheus receives.



Page 37
It is likely tha tthe Proteus was the most common mark of Land Raider used by the Imperial Army, the combined main line military of the Imperium that was split into the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy in the galaxy-wide reorganizations that took place in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy. Of course, no Land Raiders of any pattern remain in the armouries of the Imperial Guard, the vehicle long since reserved for the near-exclusive use of the Adeptus Astartes.
..
Many of these war machines were equipped with an array of scanners and cognis-interpreters that are likely to pre-date the Age of the Imperium by countless millenia.
The second bits are exploratory augury webs, and are equipped on the earlierst Proteus variants, it would seem. Extra special sensory stuff. We'll get more of that later, but the Proteus was the closest to Guard Land Raiders got (which was again early 1st edition stuff for the old Army that Forge World is resurrecting.)


Page 37
The vehicle is the result of the combined efforts of many generations of Night swords Techmarines, who between them recovered the remains of over a dozen wrecked Proteus land Raiders from as many battlefields the length and breadth of the Imperium. Though each vehicle was so badly damaged and decayed as to be entirely beyond repair, each contributed components to the construction of the Simurgh Rex, a Proteus pattern Land Raider...
..
The very last component to be interred withinthe war machine was the Augury Web, five of which had been previously located over the millenia, all proving damaged beyond the ability of the Chapter's forge to repair.
rebuilding a Proteus from what amount to reclaimed/recycled components. Which speaks both to the fabircating capabilities of the Marines as well as the modular/STC nature of the tech. Heck, it even says it tried to rebuild/repair the recovered components, so they had at least some capability to repair it as long as it wasn't badly damaged.

I imagine it gives a bit of indication of how they rebuild alot of special snowflake tech lol.



Page 38
It utilises so many of the most arcane machine-artifice rites in its construction that each must be wrought individually and under the scrupulous gaze of the most senior adepts of the Machine God.
...
The intent behind the enormous investment in resources required to construct even one Land Raider Achilles is to create an assault vehicle that is as resistant to energy-based weaponry as is conceivable for a vehicle of its class. To achieve this, every square centimetre of the vehicle's interior structure, as well as the surface of every component, is etched with the most secret runes of the techno-magi, sigils inset with meta-conducting thrice-blessed zirconium that serves to repel even the most powerful of energy weapon attacks. The result is a vehicle that can only be destroyed by energy weapons normally reserved for engaging far larger targets such as Titans, by kinetic or explosive energy or by entirely unconventional weapons such as those used by certain of Mankind's rivals for dominance of the stars.
..
..each had to be constructed by the most skilled artificers, the engraving of the microscopic, techno-arcane sigils into its structure a time-consuming process that could little match the constant demand for new vehicles to replace those destroyed in battle.
The epitome of Land Raider durability due to magic symbols or something, I guess. Possibly the material used in making said magic materials plays a role in the resilience to energy weapons, but I'm banking on magic being more of an issue here.

Also, because its hand-made, it can't be massed produced. Which is a limitation of alot of the 'special' technology of the Imperium. They can afford to sacrifice mass produced machinery, but the stuff made by hand (and thus harder to replace) is another matter. It's honestly not a bad compromise between the need to sell models and reinforce the attrition silliness even with vehicles and keeping the Imperium at least somewhat technological, whilst retaining some measure of technological 'rarity' or relic-tude for the good stuff that has been part of 40K for a long time.



Page 39
..the Achilles has remained in the canon of machine lore and is still fielded by various Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes as well as the Ordo Reductor of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
See? The AdMech does make use of Land Raiders. Also specifically the Ordo Reductor, the force mentioned in the HH books FW puts out.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

PArt 2

Page 40 - Land Raider with 'reinforced' armour above, and spaced armour below. We learn in the IA2 bokos that, unlike IA1, Space Marine special snowflake stuff can get special armour enhancements which I imagine is in addition to the stated thicknesses/armor equivalents. Its another sort of variation that can exist for the armor, basically.


Page 45
- Crusader Land Radier 50 kph off road, 41 kph on road, 72 tonnes, 6 twin linked bolters (4000 ammo rounds) and 2 assault cannon and a multimleta (2000 rounds for Assault cannon) Also auxiliary reactor. One thing to note is pretty much all land raider variants have it, even the phobos, Helios, etc.




Page 50
Proteus Land Raider - 52 kph on road, 44 kph off road, weighs 71 tonnes. 8.5 m long, 5.2 m wide, 4.8 m tall. STatus of Anvilus IX is 'unknown' - still manufactured to limited degree under 'specific warrant' from fabricator general. It has an auxiliary reactor.



Page 53 Land Raider Achilles 50 kph on road, 40 kph off road, 76 tonnes.

2 twin linked multi meltas in sponson (30x1 second blasts), and 1 thunderfire cannon with 48 rounds (variable payload) Has auxiliary reactor too.

Armour of the Achilles is 100 mm superstructure, 95-115mm Hull, as opposed to the 95mm for both for for the regular Land Raider.

It is also 10.4 m long, 6.2m wide, 4.11 m tall, and a .50 m ground clearance. contrasted with the 10.3/6.1/4.11/.45m differences for the regular Phobos pattern.


Page 53
Achilles pattern construct has nver been mass produced and many idiosyncrasies between individual war machines have been noted.
Like most special tech, like Titans and starships, in fact.



Page 54
Redeemer variant. 74 tonnes, 50 kph on road, 41 kph off road, has an auxiliary reactor in addition to its thermic combustor. has 2 twin linked flamestorm cannon with 20 3 second bursts per weapon (which is variable) and a twin linked assault cannon with 2000 rounds of ammo. Oh and backup reactor.



Page 57
The sophisticated scanners and cognis-interpreters built into the structure of the Proteus are all but unreplicable devices that liekly far pre-date the Age of the Imperium. When under the control of an experienced Techmarine, these augurs can be used in conjunction with other assets to scan enemy positions in extraordinary detail, allowing enemy movements to be thwarted or reinforcements to be called in with uncanny accuray.
The Exploratory Augury web thingy again.



Page 57
The hull of the Achilles has been specially constructed to resist even the most determined result and is almost preternaturally resilient.
- Ferromantic invulnerability - the 'supernatural' resilience of the Land Raider Achilles from its magically super-etched wards. It again reinforces its pretty magical, which lends some credence to the idea that the whole 'machine spirit' techno-religious worship does have a tangible effect on the performance of technology. I guess all those IG rituals they're taught aren't totally worthless :P


Page 57 - Thunderfire cannon can fire a surface detonation, airburst, or subterranean blast.



Page 60
As the ebb and flow of war dictates, these are replaced or repaired in the Chapter's forges and those tanks which the Techmarines and their cohorts of servitors and lexmechanics cannot produce are procured from Forge Worlds with which the Chapter maintains treaties.
Servitors and lexmechanics used for production purposes. We also get mention of technomats later, so there are at least 3 kinds of fabricating 'servant' to assist enginseer/techpriests and TechMarines. (not to mention the 'lay technicians' and artisans and suchlike.)



Page 61
The Rhino is an extremely adaptable class of armoured vehicle, featuring built-in compatibility with many standard weapon and drive systems...
..
It is easily converted into many standard and specialised variants, of which the Predator is amongst the most common, most Chapters maintaining between twenty and thirty of all types.
Rhino adaptability. Much was made of it long ago, and much will still be made of it. Also typical Predator numbers.



Page 61
Records suggest that the first Predators were constructed with a small troop carrying capacity, but during the campaigns of the Great Crusade this characteristic was sacrificed in favour of more ammunition stowage space..
Hints assign this as being the Razorback later, but they also suggest 'original' predators had troop transport. This might be a reference to early edition fluff or epic, I don't honestly remember :P



Page 61
The vehicle's armour is constructed of three main layers. The inner layer provides the main protetion and takes the form of a bonded ceramite/adamantium alloy which affords protection equal to over five times the same thickness of conventional steel and is significantly lighter. The second layer is a reinforcing thermoplas with a sub-dermal energy dissipation fibre mesh, providing protection against the extremes of heat and radioactivity. The outer layer is a non-magnetic acrylic identification sheath.
Again in earlier IA2 stuff (the last book) they gave 'CONVENTIONAL STEEL' equivalency, in this case 200mm. And like with the Land Raider, at worst its ambiguous or no different than before, and at best itmay be reinterpreted. For example, the armor thickness is 55-65mm for the Predator. We dont know how much of it is the inner layer vs the second layer - the outer layer isn't really 'armour' in a sense since its mostly identification rather than protective so its ignored. But if we figure at least half (28-32 mm) it would be 'only' 140-160mm, wheras if it were the whole thing it would be between 275-325 mm thickness. Not super armored compared to modern tanks with their additional plates and such, but quite a bit either way implied compared to previous.



Page 61
A range of weapons may be mounted in the vehicle's turret...
..
Less common variants mount more unusual weapons and some Tech-Priests hold one particular variant was once equipped with a mighty graviton cannon, though no examples of this configuration are known to exist in the 41st Millenium and the ability to re-create it has almost certainly perished.
some predators had graviton cannons, which are ostensibly lost-tech for all intents and purpsoes - or so IA claims.



Page 61
The weapons within these [sponson] are remotely operated form the turret, controlled by a mutli-spectral remote targeting surveyor...
remiotely targeted, sensor-assisted. Not quite 'auto aim' systems like form 1st edition, but close.



Page 61
When speed is of more importance than firepower, the sponsons may be omitted entirely in order to lighten the vheicle's overall weight and tease more power from its power plant.
Which includes lascannon or heavy bolters in the sponson. Given the Inferno output for lascannons (3.9 megawatt charging) this could mean some pretty powerful vehicle powerplants and speed lol.
Then again omitting the heavy bolters wouldn't contribute much power (but would weight.)


Page 62
The Predator desturctor is believed to be the most numerous Predator variant...
..
The variant is equipped with a turret-mounted autocannon, a weapon regarded as an effective all-round solution to a myriad of common battlefield challenges. Its rate of fire is not as high as that of the Baal Predator's assault cannon, but its raw ballistic power is greater. Equally, the autocannon does not have the same penetrative potential as the Annihilator's lascannon, but its rate of fire is superior - these factors combine to make the Destructor a balanced pay off between both extremes. Some Tech-Priests hold that the Destructor's main auto-loading ammunition feeds were once far more efficient and able to cycle rounds at a faster rate than is possible in the 41st Millenium. If true, the older pattern of autoloader is long lost...
Predator autocannon has an autoloader. Naturally the older was presumably more efficient. The autocannon, like with its Leman Russ analogue the Exterminator (vs Punisher and anti-tank version) occupies a 'middle ground' - the anti-personnel PRedators have higher ROF but less power, whilst the Annihilator variant is better at anti tank but slower firing than the autocannon.

Givren the 'scaled' caliber for autocannons in IA and its at least partial anti-tank capability (however minimal) does point to a fairly large caliber. Diagram number wise, Ammo supply remains 120, which might suggest its perhaps closer 60-80mm roughly (closest RL analogues I've found) although as noted in the past its scalings and other hints suggest larger and its up to debate (autocannon as well is ihself hilariously variable..) It wouldn't rule out larger (90mm maybe, but not much larger) so it should be within that range.

We also can't rule out autocannons relying on explosive munitions for damage like battle cannon (eg HEAT and HE rather than kinetic energy) Space Marines being special snowflakes could mean they have access to much more efficient munitions than their Guard counterparts.


PAge 63
Using the Long Fang's lascannon they created the first Annihilators, which led the Space Wolves' break out...
..
It is believed that this is the first instance of twin lascannon being mounted in a Predator's turret in many millenia, and suggests that the Iron Priests were able to overcome some formerly insurmountable problem with power transmission or coolant feed that had been lost to the adepts of the Machine God for some time. If so, such an example proves the ancient assertion that necessity is the mother of invention.
but remember, they don't INNOVATE and don't tolerate innovation. That would offend the Machine God! :P The hilarious bit is that this 'modification' is far from cosmetic OR trivial despite the Space wolves apparently figuring it out - it implies major reworking of the design to overcome a perceived problem. What's more, this is much like the whole Vanquisher 'reproduction' bit in which they have lost material they are trying to duplicate (in some variation.)


Page 63
The approved pattern now mounts a vehicle-killing twin lascannon codified the 'Stormbringer' configuration. This fearsome anti-tank weapon can be made more effective still by supplementing it with sponson-mounted lascannon, though doing so puts considerable strain on its power feeds that necessitates higher levels of field maintenance.
They APPROVED an innovation. Also note that the engines can apparently support twice as much lascannon-age even though it strains the tank. Says something given all the lascannon stuff I've speculated on before like with earlier vehicles. Anyhow, ignorance and superstition, my ass.




Page 64
The STC pattern found within was never returned to the Adpetus Mechanicus...
..
Instead the Blood Angels retianed the original, returning it to Baal, where it remains stored in a stasis-cell to this day...
..
The Adeptus Mechanicus has claimed that the variant has never been officially sanctioned and that its adherence to accepted STC templates has never been verified. The Blood Angels ignore this claim and have never allowed Adeptus Mechanicus officials to investigate the Chapter's archives or armouries.
Okay lets put this in perspective. Space Wolves 'INNOVATE' a lascannon-armed predator that amounts to a significant STC deviation, they will happily tolerate it. Blood angels do the same with the Baal Predator, refuse to share it, and the AdMech throw a hissy fit and insist on access to the stuff to 'sanction' it. That sounds amazingly like their aforementioned obsession with their tech monopoly, and their anger being the Blood Angels don't cooperate.



Page 64
Lucifer Pattenr thermic Combustor engine:
Many of the armoured vehicles in the arsenal of the Blood Angels Chapter and its Successors make use of a pattern of engine all but unknown outside of the sons of Sanguinius. It is likely this engine was first discovered along with the Baal pattern Predator and that the Blood Angels Techmarines found a way of utilising the technology on many of their other vehicles and certainly, its capabilities fit their battle doctrines well. The Lucifer pattern thermic combustor is a significantly more efficient machine and its output is such that vehicles into which it is fitted are capable of higher speeds than others of the same class.
The engine has its disadvantages however, in particular that it sacrifices the Predator's ability to utilise a wide range of commonly available fuel sources. The additional stresses placed upon the hull though necessitate more intensive maintenance as well as regular supplications to aggrieved machine spirits. The Blood Angels consider these costs worth paying if by utilising the Lucifer Pattern engine their battle-brothers are able to enter combat that much faster than they otherwise might.
Engine power can vary with engine type. More powerful engines mean faster speed, although it may require additioanl maintenance/repair to handle the strain as well as a loss in versatility. Much like souping up the engine, its an alterantive 'adaptation' to STC (We know vehicles can get other engines, even stuff like Chimeras or Russes.)
That its a special snowflake engine makes widespread application more limited, of course, but we know that the White Scars do something to their vehicles (modify them to be as mobile as and keep up with their bikes.) so it also can't be THAT special-snowflake rare either.



Page 70
- Weapon power packs with 'diquartzoid crystal stacks' - crystal batteries?? Lasers also have flash suppressors and focusing rings. Also a targeting array. Also have a engine core status display nad a tactical display.

Also an auto-senses network core, which I'm guessing is some sort of neural link to tie the Power armour autosenses into the tanks sensors or whatever.


Page 73 - Baal Predator. Despite being the same mass and having the Lucifer pattern engine, it travels at the same on/off road speed as regular Predators. Where'd all that extra speed go?


Page 74
..Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner, which mounts a rare Executioner class plasma destoryer. This ancient and powerful weapon fires a series of sun-hot plasma bursts, capable of incinerating flesh and blasting apart even power armour with contemptuous ease. Only the Forge World of Ryza is still able to manufacture the advanced photo-plasmic cells needed for the Executioner weapon, so many Chapters whose Techmarines have sufficient skill and knowledge replace the plasma cannon with a heavy conversion beamer. This turns the Predator Executioner into an extremely powerful siege unit and long-range tank destroyer, but this firepower is gained at the cost of manoeuvrability and increased vulnerability to short-ranged attacks.
predator version of the Leman Russ Executioner, but rarer tech. Hilariously, the Conversion beamer variant is LESS rare than the plasma destroyer, which is kinda hilarious given its IG analogue, whilst rare, is still replicable. And Conversion beamers are funky shit - guess they're not as lost tech as believed!

Its also AdmEch approved, apparently, showing once again their inconsistency in their own supposed doctrine.



Page 74
Other ancient data sources speculate that the Predator Infernus was an attempt to replicate the Baal Predator STC, stubbornly held by the honoured Blood Angels and their successors...
..
The Machine Cult of Mars' gall at the Blood Angels' refusal to release this precious relic is widely known, and so the Infernus boasts a fersome armament in the form of a turret-mounted flamestorm cannon, often replaced with the anti-armour potency of a magna-melta, a devastating weapon originally intended for void-war boarding actions.
Again AdMech not only throw a fit because someone else has technology that they don't and consider this a threat, but they've once again pulled a 'Vanquisher' and tried to reproduce it independently! SUPERSTITION AND IGNORANCE! my ass.

In this case they have the Space Marine version of a Hellhound/Devil Dog, excpet instead of multimeltas they have that godwafully powerful manga-melta, presumably with the same implied range and power (which is at least 1-1.5 km, if not more, going by the assumptions of Caestus top speed and distance and shit.



Page 76 - Predator destructor, Deimos pattern (old type) 42 tonne mass and 70 kph on road speed, 52 km off road speed. For some reason the imprint is held elsewhere and not manufactured anywhere else. Reference to the Baal Predator stuff mebbe?



Page 78
Many adpets of the machine deny that the Sicaran is anything but a myth...
...
The Sicaran is possessed of some of the most advanced and therefore ill-understood machine systems, and is the subject of deep-rooted awe and superstition, even amongst the most venerable Masters of the Forge.
Older is better! And its also mythical! And this just after the whole innovation and replication.



Page 78
Even when held in stasis, the Sicaran must be ministered to constantly by its overseers, never less than a score of servo-lectors combining their efforts to ensure the machine's continued rest, as should the Sicaran awake before being called, its machine spirit prone to behave in an unpredictable manner.
Some witnesses to such a premature awakening have reported a baleful, all too aware glow emanating from the vehicle's cyclopic primary auspex block. Others have heard garbled battle-cant from an age long past sputtering from its vox systems...
Anothre Space Marine vehicle that seems to have a degree of self-awareness/sentience and may apparently communicate. And it has an auspex.




Page 79
The tank combines numerous highly advanced and all but forgotten technologies, their capabilities far exceeding the sum of their parts. Its engine is capble of far greater output than its mass would suggest, meaning the tank can carry heavier armour than others of its size while travelling at a greater speed. It mounts a number of autonomous systems, including auto-drive and auto-aim mechanisms that require little in the way of attention from the Space Marine crew, but the most potent system the Sicaran carries however are its twin, turret-mounted accelerator autocannon, which are capable of a rate of fire and degree of accuracy far in excess of most other weapons of their class.
The benefits of its 'older is better' provenance, faster, tougher, more highly automated (auto-drive and auto-aim are clear references to 1st edition.) Oh and the accelerator stuff. Which I'll discuss later.


Page 79
..perhaps mounting such legendary weapons as the graviton cannon or the olkite carronade, but if this is the case, no such examples are known to exist even within the stasis chambers of the most ancient of Chapters.
More lost, Heresy-era weapons.


Page 79
No functioning STC imprints are known to exist, making it all but impossible to produce new vehicles to replace battlefield losses.
The Sicaran is lost tech or nearly so basically.



Page 79
The accelerator autocannon is a rare and highly-prized relic weapon which fires a hail of medium-calibre high velocity shells with great accuracy. Its bursts of cannon fire can rip through heavy armour with repeated shell impacts or strafe rapid-moving targets with devastating effect.
I'll discuss this later with the Fellblade, but note this one basically is higher rate of fire and 'all-around' like the Predator autocannon, only BETTER. Presumably it has an autoloader but may not have the mutli-ammo role of the Fellblade.


Page 81 - Sicaran battetank. Masses 65 tonnes. 8.2 m long, 7 m wide with sponsons, 4.85 m tall, 0.32 M ground clearance. On road speed of 74 kph, off road speed of 58 kph.

Armament of twin Accelerator autocannon, a heavy bolter, and sponson lascannon. Accelerator cannon has 140 rounds, and the bolter 1400 rounds.
Armour: 80mm turret, 80mm superstructure, 70mm hull, 80mm mantlet. Presumably its the 'equivalent to conventional steel' special snowflake armor.

And you know what's hilarious? It has an 'uncodified open core plasma ioniser' as a powerplant. Remember the 'plasma ioniser' from 3rd edition? We don't actually know, mind, that this one is petawatt mind, or its the same one (its uncodified after all) but its interesting that the only context we've seen it is in a vehicle, rather than (for example) a starship.



Page 83
The Space Marines utilise a wide number of vehicles in the role of close-in battlefield fire support. some are used to provide heavy fire support to advancing squads, while others complement the capabilities of armoured speareads. When accompanying other vehicles, these ar engines are in the main equipped with similar or slightly superior armour compared to the assault vehicle they are to accompany, but are rarely as heavily armoured as the Land Raider or other such tanks.
Basically what passes as their artillery.



Page 83
..their operation is familiar to all of a Chapter's battle-brothers, who with a small amount of additional specialised training and indoctrination can soon become adept at operating the support weapons systems themselves.
MASTERS OF WARFARE


Page 84
The designation 'Whirlwind' is used to cover a range of different patterns of multiple missile launchers set on a Rhino chasiss with which a myriad of missile types can be fired as part of its armament.
Basically trades the range and power of the Manticore for more missiles to fire. It is of course indirect fire, which may mean over the horizon, but is also explicitly stated to be short range. And naturally it reflects the Space Marines not relying on artillery like the IG do.


Page 84
Being able to react very quickly to the evolving tactical situation is one of the Whirlwind's chief advantages over slower, heavier artillery deployed by the Imperial Guard regiments. Being able to fire indirectly means the Whirlwind can make best use of cover and does not need to expose itself to direct enemy fire. Its mobility means that after launching a salvo, the vehicle can rapidly change position to avoid counter-battery fire.
Which, according to IA3 and 3rd edition rules, some IG artillery can do as wlel (Griffons at least, if not basilisks and manticores. Its just heavy stuff lke Colossus, Bombard, and perhaps Medusa that can't.)
Obviously is that it shares the Manticore's disadvantage of being slow to reload.


Page 84-85
..most common of which is the Vengeance pattern high explosive warhead. While not as heavy as some of the missiles carried by the artillery of the Imperial Guard, the Vengeance balances weight, size, payload and range in such a way as to provide the Space Marines with the most effective form of artillery support tailored to their preferred manner of waging war.
Variation in the ammo loadout of Whirlwinds. Also Castellan incendiary warheads. but with the reloading speed issue that means the artillery value of the Whirlwind only lasts as long as the ammo does.


Page 85
For a brief period, many Space Marine Chapters equipped their whirlwinds with warheads that scattered sub-munitions across the target zone, the result of a newly discovered STC imprint entering the canon of machine lore.
Saw only limited use. Basically deployed mines rather than micro warheads or anything.



Page 85
Missile types mentioned in the archives but not commonly used in the 41st Millenium include plasma and super-krak warheads, missiles that deploy various types of gas, anti-plant, haywire and tanglefoot, and even those armed with the extremely rare vortex warhead. In all likelihood, such arcane weapons reside still within the quantum-sealed stasis batteries of the Deathwatch and other secretive bodies within the upper echelons of the Imperium's monolithic war machine.
They could be just referring to the vortex weapons that way, but its hilarious to think they implied krak warheads are super rare. :P
They also mention 'suppresison' forces, where all Whirlwinds are coordinated by a single sensor-equipped Land Speeder which acts as spotter and calls down firepower from the Whirlwinds (not unlike Tau with markerlights and seeker missiles.)


Page 85
..a fully loaded Helios pattern carries just six missiles, although they are larger than the ancient 'Thalia' pattern, with its distinctive box shaped launcher which holds twelve smaller missiles, or the 'MkII Mars' pattern Whirlwind which holds ten missiles in twin clusters of five.
Helios ammo storage is 24 missiles, which suggests 30 missiles total (4 reloads +1) Which means the Thalia pattern holds 60 missiles total, so ther'es still pletny of variation in size and power vs ammo capacity for the whirlwind.



Page 88
..the Hyperios, a specialised anti-aircraft vehicle used by many Space Marine Chapters. In Most Chapters, this role is fufilled by Hunter and Stalker tanks, both of which are entirely dedicated to it, but such advanced weapon systems are far harder to produce.
Yeah except that both are built on a Rhino chassis too.. so I dont see whats so rare and precious about them. Supposedly its 'closer to the imprint' but this sounds like bullshit.



Page 88
The Hyperios is equipped with sophisticated tracking and targeting systems, but it is within the guided anti-aircraft missiles themselves that the true heart of the weapon resides. Each missile contains a compact logis-engine similar to that used by the hunter-killer missile. The war spirit within each weapon is known for its single-mindedness and agression...
Can also engage ground targets like hunter-killer missiles. Which may make it marginally more cheaper to build, but its not really that much more different fluff wise than the Skyspear missiles of the Hunter. And it can't be less complex than a Stalker, which is a glorified Hydra with six guns.
The missiles are shorter ranged than the Skyspear (not high altitude.)
The interesting thing is it implies that Hunter-Killers are versatile at both tracking/targeting ground vehicles AND air vehicles both. So, like, in theory you could just mount a rack of these on like a Chimera and achieve similar effects.


Page 89
Both vehicles [Hunter and Stalker] are substantial modifications of the Rhino chasiss and make use of a wide range of highly specialised and very difficult to replicate technologies. The Hunter is equipped with the fearsome skyspear missile launcher, which fires a warhead capable of attaining extremely high speeds over a long range, which can also pursue its foe to a very high altitude.
I'm guessing they try to justify their Anti-Air whirlwind variant by having the Hunter have better missiles, even though there's still no reason they can't be complementary. I mean the Whirlwind has a better simultaneous multi-launch capability because the Hunter uses a single-tube launcher. It wasn't really neccessary to try to spin the Whirlwind as some sort of cheaper anti-air missile alternative.



Page 89
The Stalker engages an enemy very differently, its potent targeting array allowing it to track and engage multiple incoming targets at once with a pair of independently tracking Icarus stormcannon..
Baiscally a souped up hydra. HOW SOPHISTICATED.


Page 89
A notable and distinctive feature of both the Hunter and the Stalker are their hydraulically deployed stabiliser claws. These are fired into the ground the instant the vehicle is on-station and dramatically increase the weapon's accuracy by negatinv the worst effects of recoil. Though these stabilizers make the weapons far more accurate, they can make the vehicles vulnerable to return fire as they take precious moments to retract before the tank can move off.
Sort of a 'fire on the move' feature. One imagines other vehicles like Basilisks could do similar (we've seen them 'locked' down in a similar way in Storm of Iron, after all.) Still even 'moments' to deploy like this and retract is better than some artilley, even if Whirlwinds don't have to do this.

One has to wonder why the Hunter, which fires missiles, would have to do this though. If it because the launcher imparts initial velocity or a ihgh rate of fire, well.. then thats another advantage the Whirlwind might have.



Page 92 - Whirlwind scorpious - relic whirlwind machine.. utilising highly advanced and barely understood tech, fear and awe at old tech... blah blah. I basically got tired of typing it out again. Basically its a anti-armour/heavy infantry missile (a space marine killer.) Advanced targetin gand auto loading too.


Page 93
The missiles fired by the Scorpius are smaller than those of the standard pattern weapon, but they bear a payload of equal potency. The explosive power of the missiles is concentrated into a smaller target area, sacrificing spread for increased ability to penetrate heavy armour. These characteristics, combined with the weapon's auto loading mechanisms and its sophisticated target acquisition system...
Not quite a shape charge I think (in the sense of a HEAT munition), but not exactly a omnidirectional blast. Maybe utilizing the munroe effect or some other effect (variant of a melta-shell perhaps?) Or it may be a multiple munition Self forging projectile. It does note warheads can range between just HE and 'armor piercing' though.


Page 95 - Scorpius Whirlwind.. Masses 32 tonnes. 6.6 m long, 4.5 m wide, 4.9 m tall, .44m clearance. Max on road speed of 70 kph, max off-road 52 kph. Main ammo 60 missiles.
40mm turret armoour, 60mm suprestructure, 60mm hull.



Page 96
Later models [of Vindicator] mounted a more compact demolisher cannon inplace of the thunderer and additional pressure stabilisation mechanisms were incorporated in order to cope with the enormous shock and recoil effects inflicted on the vehicle and its crew when it fired.
A different sort of demolisher cannon from what the Demolisher tanks have. For one thing, its rocket assisted (although nothing says the Demolisher can't use such ammo.)


Page 97
The Vindicator's demolisher cannon firs enormous rocket-assisted siege shells with each round containing a solid-propellant fuelled rocket engine which powers the warhead. A major drawback of the shell's propulsion system is that the gases produced by the blast build-up to dangerous levels in the barrel as it fires. With no way of evacuating the overpressure created by the gas build-up, the shell or barrel can deform during firing, or at worst it can burst. Rapid venting of the rocket gases during firing solves this problem, and when ignited the rocket gases are immediately extracted and directed, via ducting, to exhaust vents on the top of the hull. Even with this mechanism in place, the interior is exposed to such drastic pressure changes that only a Space Marine crew can operate the vheicle without risk of serious injury every time it fires.
Basically, the same situation as the Baneblade's rocket-assisted ammo, bolters, and all the other fluff tied with rocket-assisted ammo. The main difference is the placement of the vents. This is an interesting tidbit because it resembles technology like the 'RAVEN rarefaction Wave Gun counter-recoil mechanism as described here, or the recoil handling mechanism of the RT-20 antimaterial rifle both of which might be utilised by tanks like this (or other Imperial tanks, hint hint) to counter extreme recoil effects. Also may have a crane-winch for fast loading. Vindicator weighs 42 tonnes.




Page 101
Has a multi spectral targeting surveyor, and a targeting console. Hilariously in the diagram it looks like the Demolisher siege shells look like the kind the Demolisher tank uses.



Page 103
...the Fellblade, a super-heavy tank the equal of any foe up to and including the Titans of the Adpetus Mechanicus.
And like all relic vehicles it has the best (and least understood) shit. At least as a Superheavy it is expected to be close to Titan level, although only the really old ones are truly Baneblade equivalent, of course :P


Page 103
Posessed of such rare and potent technologies, it was perhaps inevitable that the Fellblade should fall from use as the knowledge and spirit that contributed so much to the Great Crusade receded, to be replaced by ignorance and superstition. Maintaining the Fellblade's advanced systems became even harder as time went on and repairing battle damage all but impossible.
..
Later on, key Forge Worlds responsible for the production of specific systems used by the Fellblade were lost, knowledge and expertise becoming ever more fragmented, a reflection of the fate of the Imperium itself.
Of course it is expected to fall from common use. This is the freaking Imperium and a freaking Imperial Armour book. Rare and Potent is allergic to the Imperium, ven the special Space Marines. Basically, its the Space Marine equivalent of a Grand Cruiser.



Page 104
The Fellblade is armed and equipped with a panoply of weapons all but unknown to the 41st Millenium. The tank's primary weapon is a twin accelerator cannon, a vacuum-based system that uses a complex overpressure mechanism to propel heavy shells with greater force than would be possible in a conventional cannon. So efficient is this system that very little recoil is produced, making the weapon extremely accurate and stable. Furthermore, the accelerator cannon is served by an advanced loading mechanism that allows the tank's commander to switch ammunition types at a moment's notice. The accelerator cannon fires two types of munition. The first is an anti-armour shell with a super-dense core that is capable of penetrating any known class of physical armour. The second is a heavy, high explosive munition with a fragmentation core capable of scything down dozens of foes with a single shot.
Both shell types are tageted using a complex logis engine system slaved to the vehicle commander's strategium terminal, enabling him to track and switch between dozens of targets.
The funciton of the Accelerator Cannon is honelsty quite weird. I wonder if its a joke on something like this but more than likely it is serious. Off the top of my head its basically 'wurble wurble' nonsense. The limited information as far as my knowledge goes could mean anything. 'overpressure' could refer to some sort of higher velocity (supersonic? Black powder for example had nearly 400 m/s 'detonation' velocity) that was more easily controlled, or it may refer to fuel based weapons (FAEs are 'overpressure' weapons, which might or might not tie into Liquid propellants below). It might even just mean 'magnum', as many ammunition rounds have Overpressure ammo and are better designed to handle it. How the vaccuum bit fits in is equally vague - it may reference removing all the air from the gun to mess around with pressure, or it may refer to accelerating the gun in an ideal enviroment ot minimize friction.. or whatever.) It may be that the gun plays around with the propellant in a more sophisticated manner to be more efficient, although how it does that would be beyond me (overpressure - more pressure? more efficient in directing the pressure?)

The closest I've been able to come up with close to that is something like either a Bulk Liquid Propellant Gun or a Ram Accelerator concept, both of which are related but similar. The Ram Accelerator seems more 'consistent' but has some problems as far as applying.

(Note the BLPG concept has a few spelling errors, the full document will download here - I merely provided the google cache version for ease of reading. The quote is on page 46 still]
It is also mentioned here in gun propulsion history, page 22.
A brief history through gun propulsion, page wrote:Extensive research was conducted at several sites throughout the world in the 1990s on theinbore ram accelerator, a concept based on injecting a moving projectile shaped like thecenterbody of a ramjet into an accelerator tube precharged with a combustible or detonablemixture (41–43). Heating and ignition of these gases, by a variety of mechanisms, at the base ofthe projectile resulted in a local pressurization that traveled with the projectile as it moved downthe tube. Successes to about 2.5 km/s were achieved in various gun sizes up to 120 mm, but bothfundamental and practical problems limited success beyond that point
Liquid propellant gun link, page 46 wrote:In both methods, the projectile is placed in the bore end of the chamber to form a seal. The breech is closed and the air is removed by either a venting or preferably by vacuum, line to prevent bubbles in the liquid propellant which can lead to a catastrophic effect during thesubsequent combustion process. The entire volume of propellant required to fire the projectile is pumped into thecombustion chamber at one time.
Ram Accelerator ballistic range concept, fifth page 22 wrote:"It istherefore advisable to separate the model and sabot in a vacuum."
...
"Sabot separation in the vacuum tank can be achieved by external guidance of the sabot parts, as sketched in Fig. 8. The fins of the sabot are engaged in guide rails, which are bent outwards at the place of separation."
Further Ram Accelerator info can be found here, url=http://web.archive.org/web/200304041819 ... ERP/ramac/]here[/url], and specifically pertaining to tank guns here. here they use the tank gun as part of the process.

It almost certianly, however, is not like the rocket assisted stuff Baneblades use or a travelling charge, unless the venting is handled differently.

In any case, regardless of the precise method it does seem to suggest the gun can somehow divert more force to propelling the projectile than acts on the gun (higher force with lower recoil.) which points to the increase in efficiency (maybe its a shaped charge or a variation on the munroe effect, then.) It is also, silly enough, special snowflake and ultra rare since apparently only SPACE MARINES have it, but I wouldn't put it past other examples showing up at some point. Atomantic reactors aren't exactly 'rare' anymore.

So yeah, one of my bigger replies, esp for an IA stuff, but its all highly speculative and needs infodumping. Oh well. :P

The Fellblade also has quad lascannon on each sponson , balancing rate of fire accuracy and armour penetration (at least the book claims.), and this suggests that the Accelerator cannons are more powerful than 4 lascannon together.



Page 104
The tank's armour is constructed of reinforced metaplas alloy matched only by the armour utilised on the god-machines of the Collegia Titanicus, while its engine and systems are powered by an atomantic arc-reactor, a system the Adeptus Mechanicus has been all but unable to replicate for many generations.
Except on those Rapier platforms, of course, although I suppose ew might charitably fudge 'IGNORANCE' with some inability to scale it up. Then again you'd think they'd stick a plasma ioniser or plasma reactor on one, It is a freaking superheavy after all.

That said the tank's reactor speed does provide an interesting hint on how things like nuclear-powered Chimeras and shit would run.


Page 105
A cogitator-assisted high velocity accelerator cannon designed on the Forge World of Tigrus, the Fellblade accelerator cannon is a superior heavy armament able to switch between high density core armour piercing shells for use against enemy armour and fortifications, and powerful high explosive fragmentation rounds for use against concentrations of troops.
Rang ewise its 100", so we might figure either 50% better range than a Russ Battle cannon 3-5 km range) or that its enarly the equal of a Basilisk range wise :P If we figure 6-12 km for the Fellbalde based on the Basilisk, and ~3 second travel time, thats between 2-4 km/s roughly muzzle velcoity. If we assume recoil equal to a modern MBT (~400-500 n-s per ton) and 30% propellant it would be 120-150 thousand n-s, of which 84-105 thousand is projectile. Spread amongst the two guns thats each being 42-53 thousand kg*m/s. At 2-3 km/s (4 might be a bit far) you'd get between 14-27 kg shells. If we assumed for the sake of argument 900 n-s/ton each gun would be 94,500 n-s for projectile recoil, which would be between 31-47 kg shells. Overall that's a KE of 42 MJ per shell at least, and perhaps as much as 142 mj.



Page 105
additional heavy ceramite plating fitted to the vehicle allows it to withstand extremes of heat and radiation. Plating of this kind is commonly fitted to orbital strike craft to enable them to withstand the rigours of 'crash' re-entry from space into a planet's atmosphere, and also to certain siege vehicles to protect them from thermal energy weapons.
Ablative ceramite plating. Again extra-armour, even if its optimised against heat ray energy weapons.



Page 106 - Fellbalde stats: 302 tonnes, 12.5 m long, 8.2m wide with sponsons, 5.8 m tall, 1.5 m ground clearance. Max speed on road of 32 kph, max speed off road of 20 kph.
Accelerator cannons carry 42 rounds. It also has a demolisher cannon with 28 rounds.
Reactor is an 'uncodified atomantic-plasma hybrid' One presumes that the Accelerator cannons are at least as powerful or moreso than the quad lascannons on each side.

Also less than 100 examples of Fellbalde known to have been constructed in the last 500 years circa M40.010.. which suggests that at least up til that era they could still have been built, albeit slowly. LOST AND IGNORANT.
Note that speed wise compared with a regular baneblade, the Fellblade has 28% greater on road but only 11% greater off-road speed due to its nuclear powerplant.


Page 108
..mounts the largest cannon it is possible to carry on the Typhon/Spartan hull. Prior to the creation of the Typhon, the dreadhammer siege cannon had only been utilised on static super-heavy siege ordnance of the type used to pound enemy-held cities to dust. By mounting the dreadhammer to the Typhon, the Space Marines gained access to a vehicle as mobile and as heavily armoured as any in their arsenal, but able to engage evne the heaviest of fortifications.
Super heavy ordnance. Probably titan scale.



PAge 109
The Dreadhammer is a huge siege weapon, modified from the kind of static weaponry usually deployed to slowly pound cities and gargantuan fortresses to dust. The kinetic blast wave produced by the multi-tonne shells it fires alone is enough to liquefy flesh and bone, and the most well-protected bunker provides little defence for those within.
..
The Typhon Heavy siege tank is densely constructed and heavily reinforced to withstand the recoil of its own main weapon.
24-48" range game wise. Basically a km or two, given Demolisher baseline. Assuming 1000 n-s or so (close to sheridan recoil) at the stated mass its about 119,000 n-s recoil. With a multi-tonne shell of 2 tons the velocity is a whopping 60 m/s :P To get any range with its virtually flat trajectory, however it would need to be several hundred m/s more than likely - it doesn't have much give for arcs and elevations. and that implies some 400,000 n-s more likely (and that without the effect of propellant!). The tank probably needs some hefty recoil-handling capability on top of that


Page 110
Typhon stats: 170 tonnes mass, 10 m long, 6.1 m wide, 5 m tall. 0.5 m ground clearance.
Max speed on road 35 kph, max speed off road 30 kph . Carries 12 rounds for the Dreadhammer. Reactor is 'meta-thermic hybrid, with auxiliary reactor.'
Armour 95mm superstrucutre and 95mm hull. 40% faster on road than Macharius or superheavy (which isn't saying a ton) and 67% faster off-road. Crassus might pull something lik ethis.


Page 112
The neutron laser battery is powered by an atomantic arc-reactor and fires a pulsed beam of intense raidation that scythes straight through even the thickest of armour and wreaks havoc on delicate systems within, whether biological or electronic.
It also has the 'feedback' problem where if the enemey's armour withstands the attack it will 'reflect' along the beam. Which is bizarrea nd hilarious.
And again like most tech it is 'all but lost' and even during the GReat crusade was probably 'barely understood'.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Imperial Armour 1&2 (new version) analysis thread

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 3

Page 112
..the arc reactor that powers the Neutron laser battery is prone to wild fluctuations that make it highly dangerous to operate for any crew other than a Space Marine or a much augmented techpriests. A non-augmented human crew would in all likelihood be slowly cooked alive by the reactor's unstable energy field, while a Space Marine's superior constitution would allow them to avoid the worst effects for a much longer time before succumbing to them.
An indication of Space Marine (When armored) resistance to thermal radiation.



Page 112
..the numerous systems that power the neutron battery, as well as those that contain the worst of its fluctuations, are all but impossible to maintain and the construction of new vehicles is almost unheard of.
But not impossible. LOL



Page 113
..the Imperium simply could not maintain the arcane systems many of these potent engines of destruction utilised. Countless Tech-Priests have made it their life's work to recover even a fraction of these long-lost treasures, such as the legendary and ill-understood flare shields once utilised by certain classes of armoured vehicles. Others hold that such technologies are the echoes of earlier, darker times and fear that to resurrect them is to call fortht he horrors of the distant past and to invite the return of forces that should be left well alone.
Reasons why GC/HH era vehicles are so rare/lost tech. For whatever that is worth. Flare shields you may recall were the forcefields protecting certain titans and vehicles, itself a throwback to powerfields being on smaller vehicles in earlier 1st/2nd edition fluff.


Page 114
Cerberus tank Mass of 174 tonnes, 10 m long, 6.1 m wide, 5 m tall. ground clerance 0.5 m. Max speed on road 35 kph, max speed off road 30 kph.
Neutron laser array can manage 20 five second blasts.
Armour is 95mm on hull and 95mm on superstructure. Similar speed variation compared to Macharius/superheavy as previous vehicle.



Page 117
The Thick hull of the vehicle has been further augmented with ablative ceramite plating, and blessings and prayers to the Omnissiah
Again ablative armor added additionally, albeit as extra protection against energy weapons, rather than chemical or kinetic energy weapons.


Page 118
spartan Assault tank: 165 ton mass REactor is atomantic core with auxiliary reactor. 10m long, 6.1m wide with sponsons, 5m tall. 0.5 m ground clearnace. 45 kph on road speed, 38 kph off road speed. Quad linked lascannons in sponsons and twin linked heavy bolter (800 rounds)
95mm of armor on superstructure and hull. Carries 25 Terminators. Fastest modified tank too 80% faster on road, and 110% faster off road! Possibly an upper limit analogue for Crassus. It does show better I think than the Fellblade what nuclear-powered Imperial tanks might pull speed-wise. MAybe the 2nd edition Russes/chimeras were nucleonic/atomantic/sub-nuclear :P


Page 121
Shielded by multiple layers of armour constructed using the same artifice rites as the Land Raider's, the Thunderhawk is able to weather the fires of atmospheric re-entry and withstand even the heaviest of ground-to-air defensive fire.
Thunderhawks have Land Raider grade armor. Note that in earlier Imperial aRmor fluff predating the last books, it had only 240 mm 'conventional steel' equivaelnt armor, yet it could survive atmospheric reentry (multiple times) as well as weapons fire.


Page 121
Equipped with a dorsal-mounted turbo laser or oversized battle cannon, the Thunderhawk is able to engage targets as large as a Scout Titan or super-heavy tank as wlel as enemy fortifcations.
The battle cannon/ turbolaser is a titan-grade weapon, which tells us something of the firepower magnitude of starfighters like the Fury and Starhawk as well.


Page 122
The Thunderhawk is unusual in that it can operate effectively in the depths of space as well as in the atmosphere of a terrestrial body. In space, each RX-92-00 thruster serves as a rocket booster. Fuelled by the aircraft's onboard fusion reactor, the forward turbo-fan part of the engine can be isolated from the exhausts and combustion chambers. Fuel generated in the reactor is pumped into the combustion chamber, where it burns to create a high pressure, high-velocity stream of gases, which then flow through the engine's shaped exhaust nozzle accelerating them further. Additional retro exhaust nozzles are positioned around the Thunderhawk's hull and these vent off some of the gases to control the Thunderhawk's direction in zero-gravity conditions...
Thunderhawks have fusion reactors here. This implies that with the mention of plasma and atomantic reactors, that fusion reactors are separate from the other related power sources.
Hilariously these are literally DIESEL FUSION like, perhaps the few legitimate types existing (except those promethium-fuelled nuclear reactors in some sources lol.) Although this is for hybrid atmospheric and space use.


Page 122
Its armour is constructed using the same techniques as those used in the Land Raider, and is a layered composite of ablative ceramite over an absorption and energy dissipation layer, a thermoplas fibre mesh, titanium rolled plates and an adamantium inner hull. This combination provides superb protection from incoming fire and the thermoplas fibre mesh provides extra heat shielding during entry into a planet's atmosphere. During the course of a battle, the Thunderhawk must be able to withstand repeated atmospheric entries as wlel a weathering the attacks of the enemy.
Making it resistant to melta and fusion weapons. Again the armour is Land-Raider grade if not equal in protection (what I said about armor matters again.)


Page 122
As well as its armour construction, a Thunderhawk has other systems in common with the Land Raider. Multi-spectral remote targeting surveyors control the primary dorsal weapon and forward heavy bolters, relaying information to the aircraft's gunner on the flight deck.
It also has the same machien spirit, as I recall, meaning they're probably soemwhat self aware. Which is interesting given they probably also have the spinal interfaces, allowing Space Marines to commune directly with the ship's spirit, not unlike Titans.


Page 122
..it is possible the smaller gunship was simply easier to replicate across the numerous Forge worlds supplying the Legions as the Great Crusade pushed ever further...
...
It is unknown if any of these vessels remain in the arsenals of the Space Marines in the 41st Millenium.
Stormbird fate. CSM are mentioned to have them, and unsurprisingly botht he AdMech and Astartes would love to get thier mitts on them.
Thunderhawk also has 'ablative ceramite'



Page 122
..a sensor array and electronic counter measures allow for the detection and jamming of enemy signals, sensors and tracking equipment.
The ECM is interesting isnce it jams sensors, and its one of the rare mentions of the Imperium having technology like that. Also has a beacon and nav equipment which relays info to command units.



Page 128 - underbelly armour is reinforced ceramite and heat disispation layers. There is also mention of the fusion reactor, a laser capacitor, the turbo laser and its multi-spectral targeter. It also has a 'Cygnus' class Machine spirit. ECM is also mentioned, auto-surveyor, snesor controls, nav controls.

The turbolaser has an energy converter, refraction cahmber and barrel bracing as well.

It goes without saying that fusion, plasma, and atomantic are all mentioned separately, and this is again suggestive they are different technologies :P


Page 134
..the Storm Eagle is able to ferry up to twenty Space Marines...
..
Few other Forge Worlds [beyond Tigrus and Anvilus IX) are thought to have maintained production, for the Storm Eagle is a complex war machine that takes some time to produce. Production levels have waxed and waned throughout the Age of the Imperium...
...
..others have lost their complement entirely thorugh a combination of battlefield attrition and the technological delcine that has beset the Imperium since its inception.
It goes on to suggest the resurgence mentioned in other codexes may have been an undiscovered stockpile, or a new, undisclosed production facility. Possibly a new forge world discovergin the STC or the Astartes building it themselves. Again the Imperium can never have anything nice, at least not totally free. :P


Page 135
...the Storm Eagle is sufficiently armed and armoured to remain on station in the face of considerable return fire and provide close support to ground troops...
..
Particularily effective in this role is the Storm Eagle's Vengeance launcher, a twin missile launch system not unlike that carried by a Whirlwind missile tank and equally capable of saturating the target zone with potent anti-personnel warheads before and during the assault.
Storm Eagles carry 20 troops also. Often terminators.



Page 135
The storm Eagle assault gunship is a sufficiently large and flexible vehicle to allow its re-configuration into a number of different patterns.
..
..the Roc serves as a formidable tank hunter, sacrificing some of its troop carrying capacity for additional fuel reserves and specialised munitions auto-cyclers.
..
..bring its Roc armour-piercing warheads to bear on the hapless victim's weaker top or rear armour.
Anti tank Storm Eagle variant.


Page 135
The Fire Raptor carries a formidable range of heavy weaponry, most destructive of which is its nose-mounted Avenger pattern bolt cannon. This system is capable of unleashing a staggering weight of fire upon it starget and is especially effective against massed infantry; so relentless is this torrent of fire that it cna chew through even heavy armour.
..
..the Fire Raptor is equipped with two waist-mounted ball turrets, each manually operated by a Space Marine gunner and equipped with quad heavy bolters. In most Space Marine vehciles, secondary weapons systems are operated remotely by a pilot or commander and slaved to attack the same target. The advantage of these turrets being individually crewd is that they can engage targets independently...
Another variant using heavy cannon and turrets.


Page 135
Smaller than a Thunderhawk but similar in role, the Stormraven carries a single squad of Space Marines and a Dreadnought into battle...
Stormravens supposeldy also represent how the scale of Space Marine aerospace craft has scaled down, from Stormbirds to Stormravens. Or their navy analogues, for that matter (like the 60 ton naval fighter in Emperor's Mercy, or hybridized space-capable variants of lightning, Thunderbolt and MArauders.) If we scale the aerospace Marauder from 'RAptor Flight' by the aeronautica and assume a similar ratio holds for the Thunderbolt and Lightning we get (for a tonnage of 190 tons, a 79 m length and a 109 m wingspan:
A thunderbolt that is 59 m long with a 71 m wingspan, and masses some 65 tonnes, and a Lightning that is 45 m long, 61 m wingspan, and masses some 46 tonnes. About the same magnitude of tonnage as the Stormraven, although as we see the wingspan and such are considerably smaller (more in line with aeronautica, although the Stormraven is pretty damn blocky) Of course even Thunderhawks tend to be rather blocky/compact for thier mass (27 m long, 27 m wingspan, etc. so maybe take it with a grain of salt :P The aeronautica fighters might not be much bigger dimension wise.


Page 136
When Adeptus Astartes war ships engage the foe in deadly void battle, they utilise Thunderhawks as heavy fighters. The Fire Raptor has proven especially potent as an escort for Thunderhawks fighting in this role, its lack of manoeuvrability compared to a true, dedicated void fighter craft more than compensated for by the weight and accuracy of its fire.
Role of Space Marine aerospace craft.



Page 136
This small, one-crew flyer combines the role of interceptor, escrot and gunship. ARmed with a variety of weapons and heavily armoured for a craft of its size, the Stormtalon is extremely manoeuvrable, has a high operational ceiling and is capable of deployment form orbit. Though its straight-line speed is less than that of a Land speeder, the Stormtalon's main strength is its ability to turn, change facing and rapidly climb or descend...
Stormtalon seems to be more like a gunship/chopper, basically aeronautica than dedicated aerospace.


Page 140
- Storm Eagle weighs 68 tonnes, 18 metres long, 11.8 m wide, 7.2 m high. Operational range 30,000 km in atmosphere, max airspeed of 2,000 kph.
Its Vengeance pattern missile launcher carries 48 missiles, and the twin heavy bolter 2000 rounds.
Superstrucutre is 45mm armour, hull is 55mm armour.

Basically all the other variants aside from the stormtalon are of similar size and probably also represent hybrid aerospace fighters and give similar benchmarks for their Navy aerospace equivalents (the middle road between pure aeronautica and pure void fighters basically.)



Page 142
..the Caestus was fitted with an array of anti-grav protjection nodes that allow it to operate within the gravitational field of a planet or similar sized body.
Basically an aerospace fighter/transport that has an ugly shape.



Page 342
...interlocking restraint mechanism codified as the 'Misericordia', a system that combines heavy grade bracing with a highly focused inertial damping charge bled from teh vessel's main anti-gravity array.
Caestus has actual anti-grav inertial damping. Given its small size that's actually quite a feat.



Page 342-343
Mounted between its breaching booms is a magna-melta, a thermic type weapon rarely only seen on war machines of this size.
..
..the magna-melta unleashes a concentrated blast of blinding nucleonic fury. Few known forms of armour can resist such an attack and those not reduced to superheated vapour are comprised to such a degree that when the Caestus impacts seconds later, it is able to force its way through a once rigid and dense structure softened to the consistency of lava. When the ram's battle-logis determines it has achieved optimal penetration and ofrwar dmotion has ceased...
..
On occasion, the breached structure is superheated to such an extent that it sets solid about the breaching booms to form a vacuum-fast seal. This necessitates the engagement of the vehicle's powerful anti-grav generators to push it free...
As mentioned before, Magna mental range seems to be several km at least based on speed and timing, but the calc would proably be single/double digit TW for melting/vaping a hull, assuming iron, melted at least 15m deep (length of CAestus approximately, minus wings) and 7 m per side would be nearly 5800 tons of iron affected. To melt would be 7 TJ, 44 TJ to vaporize. Giving a rough magnitude (order of magnitude) of fighter firepower, even if as a melta. It certianly falls within rough Titan scale, though. Also if armor is thicker (40+m thick as per Black Crusade for Grand Cruisers, for example) the calc could be considerably greater. More, if the Caestus makes a wider hole at that, or of course if material is considerably better than iron :P
Caesus fires 10 5 second bursts. If we assume a full minute to drill through hull it would be 140 gigawatts sustained firepower (of course range goes up to 25 km at that, since we're assuming nearly a minute to punch through) to 880 gigawatts for total vaporization. A single, 5 second burst would yield a range of 2.5 km, and a firepower of 1.4 to 8.8 terawatts.

Page 343
The vehicles' prow is equipped with further field projectors that both protect it from such [defensive] fire and further neable it to smash through its target's armour without sustaining damage itself.
Some sort of structural enhancement/protective shields, not unlike powerfields used in that role. Also interesting as one of those rare examples of spacecraft with shielding of some kind.



Page343
..a common protocol utilised when Space Marines serve alongside certain units of the Inquisiton and while doing so they witness the full horror of daemonic incursion or similar phenomenon. When those of the Imperial Guard or similar types of warriors witness such things they are often put to death soon after, a mercy considering the corruption and insanity that will inevitably have taken root in their mortal hearts. Space marines however are too valuable to dispose of in this fashion, and better able to withstand the horrors of the Warp. Instead of being put to death they are often subjected to a mnemonic purgation rite, a protocol that preserves their physical abilites, albeit at the cost of their memories, skills, experience, and personality.
More on the mnemonic wiping. And as I mentioned before, its basically a reference to early fluff protocols for handling daemonic encounters. Guard get executed, Space Marines get mindwiped.



Page 344
..the magna-melta is designed to turn a large cubic area of starship hull plating into liquid slag.
Again calcing suggests gigajoule/terajoule range.


Page 146
Caestus Assautl ram: 85 tonnes mass. 16.8 m long, 12.5 m wingspan, 6.5m height. RAnge 22,000 km in atmosphere. Max speed, 1800 kph.

Magna melta has 10 five second blasts. rocket launchers carry 24 missiles.
Armour is 60mm on superstructure, and 60mm on hull.



Page 148 - Other races have better AG, AdMech regards it as tainted and heretical, people messing with it can be punished.. etc. We'v e seen differeing perspectives of course.



PAge 148
If the Imperial Guard, or indeed its forerunner, the Imperial Army, eve rused Land Speeders they have not done so for many generations, tehse potent war machines far too precious and complex to be risked in the hands of Imperial Guardsmen.
Which is interesting given we've seen civiilan antigrav vehicles, even non-IG military vehicles (eisenhorn). Heck plenty of sources (like Epic) and earlier IG stuff indicated that they could borrow/commandeer locally built speeders and shit for military use, and hive worlds like Stalinvast from Inquisiton WAr made hovertanks.

Again it seems geared towards making Space Marines look more special more than anything.


Page 149
The Land Speeder Storm is an extensively modified example of the standard Land Speeder, more lightly armed and armoured, but equippwed with a range of specialised stealth, jamming and communications equipment, and able to carry a squad of Space Marine Scouts..
More ECM equipment. Also a speeder used as transport.



Page 150
Such [Dark Angels] War machines utilise a range of STC patterns unique to the Dark Angels, patterns that the Adeptus Mechanicus covet and would go to almost any lengths to obtain.
Dark Angels like the Blood Angels have chapter-specific STC they hold back from the AdMech (which enrages them) and shows they're more about their monopoly than actual religion.


Page 150
The Tempest is a lighter and more agile attack craft than the Storm Talon and, as with all marks of Land Speeder, limited by its anti-grav repulsor system to a flight ceiling of only 100 metres.
The tempest is basically a gunship, heavy guns and armour.



Page 151
One of the rarest form of this class of technology is the anti-grav generator, an example of machine lore that even in its heyday was regarded as esoteric and is now seen as a miracle on the verge of being lost for all time.
HAH. Are we shocked?


Page 151
All manner of grav attack vehicles, battle tanks and flyers were once fielded, including Sky Hunter jet bikes, the Orgus Flyer and the Javelin attack speeder.
Lost tech grav vehicles. Which isn't a joke as they only have one jet bike in the whole Imperium it seems. Or rather only one that Space Marines can ride.


Page 165
..many secrets of their construction are all but lost. Secret and arcane knowledge is used to keep those Dreadnoughts that still serve functioning, but very few new Dreadnoughts have been constructed in the 41st Millenium and only by the few skilled specialists who have jealously preserved the required knowledge.
Again Dreadnoughts 'all but lost' tech... but they can at least still build them. although unsurprisingly the knowledge is jealously guarded (hoarded) rather than disseminated so it isn't lost. Competition and distrust do more damage to the Imperium than ignorance and superstition.


page 165
Only the heaviest enemy weapons represent a threat to their thick frontal armour. Dreadnoughts are incredibly resilient and difficult to destroy.
Dreadnoughts are specialer snowflakes than most vehicles.



Page 166
A Dreadnought's systems are protected by great slab-like plates of cast adamantium armour.
Obviously.



Page 166
The Dreadnougth's great bulk provides a very stable firing platform even when moving which, combined with targeters, recoil dampeners and high volume ammunition stowage, means a Dreadnought can keep up a higher rate of fire for longer...
..
Cryogenium cooling systems also mean that their weapons are less prone to overheating ahd jamming...
Targeting and recoil handling/cooling systems of a Dreadnought.



Page 166
With so many of the techniques used in the construction of Dreadnoughts all but lost, very few new machines can be built; each must be hand crafted by a skilled magos-artisan and can represent his life's work.
But they ARE still built. By hand, as with all rare tech, and take literally decades or longer. It seems 'decades or centuries' is simply a reflection of the handcrafting rather than absolutes about construction times. A reflection fo their non-mass produced nature.



Page 167
- Castraferrum class dreadnought. Has helical targeting arras and atomantic reactors, implied to be pilotable by non Astartes, but only effectively by a space marine.



Page 168
It is often fitted with a helical targeting array to enhanced target-curinsg logis engines. These allow it to track foes with unprecedented accuracy and make it particularily deadly against enemy flyers.
Mortis pattern targeting systems.



Page 176 - contemptors having the atomantic reactor and the storm shield shielding.


Page 176
Some believe that the Contemptor shares many systems with the dreaded near mythical battle-automata of the Legion Cybernetica. If this is the case, it might go some way towards explaining why so few Contemptors remain in the arsenals of the Adeptus Astartes, for the war engines of the Cybernetica are regarded by many as technology taken beyond the acceptable limits of machine canon.
Which is reasonably accurate from the HH stuff as I recall. This does, amusingly, suggest some Battle Robots might be around still.



Page 177 - Contemptor stats: 14.5 tonnes, atomantic arc reactor.
2.1 M 'long', 3.1 m wide, 4.5 m height.
Max on road speed of 12 kph and Max speed off road of 7 kph

75mm armor on superstructure, 75mm on hull. Also power shield projectors.


Page 183 - All Chapter Comapnies except 10th have enough Rhinos to carry all squads into battle. More are held in reserve in the armoury.


Page 183
The Rhino also sees service with the other trursted arms of the Imperium, such as the Adpetus Sororitas, Adeptus Arbites, and in the retinues of individual inquisitors.
'trusted' people get the stuff, even though Chimeras are arguably bettter as a design. Its the tech that makes Rhinos special.


Page 183
Due to its STC Roots, the Rhino can be constructed using a wide range of different materials. Most Rhinos are constructed of a bonded ceramite layer over a cast plasteel hull, although others use composite carbon compounds or conventional hardened steel, depending on their origin. In addition, a Rhino's engine can run on almost any combustible fuel.
This would also suggest plasteel is not 'conventional steel' interpretation wise - which is interesting given that it might mean better, equal to or worse than plasteel as a alternative. Beyond that it suggests 'normal' hull materials are considerably better than 'conventional steel' all the same.
In fact, there seems to be no reason why, given its STC-ness, that 'low grade' Rhinos couldn't be built locally. Without the redundancies (as noted later) and special stuff it would proably be easy to mass produce, since the big difference between Rhinos and Chimeras is the specialness of the tech used in their construction, nothing else.

This would explain examples where IG still use Rhinos (Albeit rarely) and perhaps why Chimeras are IFVs rather than APCs (Rhinos are the APCs.)


Page 183
The Rhino is powered by four MkII 'Mars' pattern adaptable thermic combustor reaction engines, each of which functions independently of the others. Should one or even two be damaged in battle the vehicle is able to plough on..
..
The engines are fed by an air intake that provides the oxygen for the combustion chamber and because each has its own oxygen supply, the vehicle can function in a vacuum or enviroments where the atmosphere is toxic or otherwise detrimental to normal operations.
Rhino redundancies, independent oxidizing for fuel, and similar. They can be run off electricity as well, as I remember.


Page 184
..a range of rudimentary self-repair mechanisms wrought into its systems.
..
Some vehicles written off as mortally wounded have been observed to restore themselves to basic operation given time for the self repair mechanisms to function..
Some level of self-awareness/operation? Also the self repair must be more than just redundancies or replacement, it must phyiscally repair the systems.


Page 185
The main difference between the marks is the construction of the vehicle's engine and drive systems, which is far more robust in the MkIIc, with a resulting slightly higher top speed and load bearing capacity. The Mk1 lacks the built-in system redundancy which makes the Rhino such a reliable vehicle, although the Mki's more straightforward engine design has some benefits, such as in maintenance time...
They dont know how many Mk1s still exist but they still may be in significant (although declining) use. Again differences in drive system reflect differences in speed, but also tradeoffs in reliability and similar drawbacks.


Page 185
After recovery the template was rapidly adopted as part of the STC canon and in just under two hundred years, the first Razorbacks were being field tested. Existing records already indicated that a troop carrying variant of the Predator had been a forerunner of the Predator tank, and the Razorback seemed to fit the description closely.
...
Originally, the Predator was also a troop carrier, and it may be that the Razorback design is a hold-over from those ancient days, an evolutionary path only realised with Tilvius' discovery.
Its kind of a poor man's chimera. Doesn't have quite the troop transport capacity, or the protection/versatility, or the guns. Note it was approved 'only' in two hundred years and this is fast. Ooops given the decades hinted at earlier.



Page 185
This pattern mounts a multi-melta in its turret, a configuration which makes excessive demands on the vehicle's power cell conduits...
..
It is believed the Fire Hawks Chapter formulated a means of overcoming the powre feed issue..
Infernum Razorback. Given yields of melta weapons the 'strain' on power systems is hilarious.



Page 186
It provides secure multi-band communications for co-ordinating with other Imperial forces in the area of operations - this can be anything from orbiting spacecraft and Imperial Navy aircraft to Imperial guard, Adeptus Arbites or Adepta Sororitas command units. The vehicle mounts a multi-spectral ground surveillance auspex for locating enemy units whilst Chapter-wide squad and vehicle tracking capability is afforded via orbital relay.
,..
..a transmission monitor allows for the interception of enemy signals, with a decryption engine that is capable of braeking the most fiendishly disguised enemy codes built into its systems.
Damocles Rhino. Used to coordinate Space Marine forces as well as with other Imperial forces. Also has a teleport beacon. Decrpytion system is interesting.
Can use its vox/sensor capability for calling down orbital strikes.


Page 200
..Rapier carriers are semi-automated tracked weapons carriers with on-board targeting systme snad power generators. Designed to mount support weaponry too large and cumbersome even for a Space Marine to carry...
...
The most common armaments mounted on the Rapiers of the Space Marines are quad heavy bolters and laser destroyer arrays for anti-personnel and anti-armour use respectively, while so-called 'thudd' gun multi-launchers were once favoured for siege warfare and suppressive fire.
Space Marine version of Rapiers. Has the reactor that is supposedly lost tech, but otherwise identical to IG version, if perhaps a bit more versatile with its field gun/mortar version as well as antipersonnel version. Plus an extinct graviton cannon (all but lost blah blah..)



Page 204
..the Chapter's arsenal on Titan is host to vast, stasis-locked battery chambers within which are probably held examples of almost every war machine ever wrought by the Imperium. Furthermore, the Chapter's dedicated Forge World, Deimos, holds the STC imprints fro the entire canon of Adeptus Mechanicus lore as well as weapons undreamed of, all of it reserved for the Chapter's exclusive use.
Mention of the moon Deimos as a 'forge world' for the Grey Knights, also the extensive armoury and garge of said GK. They literally have everything.



Page 204-205
A vehicle custodian can practise a particular art in which he links his spirit to that inhabiting his war mchine, communing using deeply embedded psycho-reactive elements so that the vehicle becomes an extension of his body, the two fighting together as one whatever damage either may suffer.
Pyschic powers and magic crystals give some Grey Knights closer connections and more impressive control of their vehicles.


Page 205 - mention of Deimos as their special Forge World, and also mention that although they have acess to every possible STC design, they restrict hemselves to Land Raiders and a few other vessels.



Page 205
..each and every component being thrice blessed and warded before assembly. At every stage of the construction process, dire Rites of Prognostication are performed over the vehicle in order to forsee any future weakness or calamity, and to take whatever steps are deemed necessary to forestall ill fortune.
In more than one case, a Land Raider has neared completion after many months or even years of construction only for the entire process to be halted following an inauspicious foretelling. In such cases the construction process is reversed, each component removed, accompanied by numerous more rites, until the source of the ill fortune is determined and a favourable prognostication made. In this way, physical and spiritual weaknesses deep in the vehicle's fabric can be averted..
Implied construction time of Land Raiders being 'months' or 'years', and this is for Grey Knight grade shit at that. What's interesting is that, apart form the warding and the prognositication rituals (which may be accurate or not) it implies that reliability can be tied to belief in the warp as well. Again this stuff could be joke or true depending on how you figure the Warp ties into it. In any event its the sort of thing that also explains why Imperial shipbuilding times are so utterly variable, because you'd figure the AdMech do the same rites on starships (which could thus potentially extend them to decades, or even centuries.

On the other hand if it's all carried out properly, the implication (and the belief behind it) would suggest the vehicle is ultra reliable and strong.



Page 208
Sacred unguents and micro-etched Runes of Warding are incorporated into its structure to proof the vehicle against spiritual contamination.
Vortimer Pattern Land Raider Redeemer. USes sacred promethium in its flame weapons and psyk-out charges in assault launchers. Also a psycannon, which is rare and irrepalacable apparently. All sorts of special protections and such.


PAge 210 - Redemer Land Radier, Vortimer pattern. Only real difference is the ammo 20x3 second flamer bursts per weapon (thrice blessed promethium) and Psycannon (1000 individually etched aether-phagic rounds.)
Armour is 95mm with augmented truesilver. Otherwise not much different Land RAider stats wise.



Page 214
The Grey Knights maintain an extensive stock of Dreadnoughts, in all likelihood more than most other Chapters. With an entire Forge World devoted to providing the Chapter with a constant stream of the most precious wargear and materiel, and with so many bold heroes serving in its ranks, tehre is no shortage of worthy brethren to be interred within a Dreadnought and no shortage of Dreadnoughts in which to inter them.
They're all non-standardized, except one known as Doomglaive. BAsically powreful Nemesis Force weapons dreadnought scale. And psycannons.



Page 217
The Forge World of Deimos was once one of the twin moons of MArs, moved by terrible processes into orbit about Titan, where now resides the fortress-monastery of the Grey Knights. Deimos produces any and all engines of war the Grey Knights might demand, serving them and them alone. Having been turned over to the Grey Knights, tehse engines are completed within the Chapter Forge, where arcane techno-rites known only to the Chapter's Techmarines are applied. So secretive are the Grey Knights in this matter that such materials are handed over by mind-scrubbed servitors, ensuring that the secrets of both the Grey Knights and the Adeptus Mechanicus are preserved.

..
..once it supplied the vast armies that accompanied the Expeditionary fleets during the Great Crusade. Thus, a great many vheicles and weapons were produced to the Deimos pattern, and some of these are produced still, having been taken up by Forge Worlds the length and breadth of the Imperium.
As I commented earlier in IA1 2nd edition and this one, the term 'forge world' like Hive World seems to have become much more open ended - rather than dedicated 'planets' it can refer to any potentially large, arguably habitable celestial body (at least one with enough gravity to sustain humans.) and as far as colonizing systems go that opens up a whole bunch of options for worlds (we're talking like instead of a handful or less, literally dozens, perhaps even hundreds.) Which as I keep belaboring, offers an interesting wrinkle in making sense of disparate population/territory numbers ('billions' of hive worlds, billions of worlds with industry, vs only a million+ stated owrlds, or millions, or the other end.)
Beyond that we learn that forge worlds were active during the Great Crusade and supplied armies (and there was more forge world than just Terra in the solar system, before the Grey Knights were declared ultra-specialier space marines than even regular Space Marines.)


Page 220
..others use their authority to bring together and and all Imperial forces to combat their enemies directly. Many make use of these seconded or 'inducted' forces for a single battle only, while others maintain sizable private armies of warriors and war machines proudly bearing the livery of their master. Such household forces can, in theory, include almost any war machine in the extensive arsneals of the Imperium, from the humble Chimera armoured carrier to the mighty Baneblade super-heavy tank.
Inquisitors methods of waging war - tithe their own the same way the Munitorum does. Only unlike the Munitorum, they tend to have far more pull in terms of what they can get.



Page 220
Inducted Imperial Guardsmen have been observed to fight with the weapons and vehicles they already have, but those units inducted into an Inquisitor's forces on a more permanant basis may be re-equipped with weapons and equipment only an Inquisitor could possibly have access to.
Again Inquisitors have better resources and connections so they can afford to better equip their troops.



Page 220
Some Inquisitors, or groups of Inquistiors, are known to maintain forbidding bastions sometimes referred to as Inquisitorial Fortresses. These facilities - some secert, others well known and much feared - are scattered across the Imperium and can serve as bases of operation for the members of the Inquisitorial ordos. They might house prison cells, torture chambers, research laboratories, warded archives of forbidden knowledge, armouries and stores of supplies. Each fortress is likely to be guarded by cadres of warriors entirely devoted to the service of their master. In many cases these are Storm Troopers drawn from the Imperial Guard, for such warriors are amongst the finest outside of the Adeptus Astartes. They have access to Rhinos, Chimeras, and Valkyiries to provide Inquisitors with a core of well-trained, well-equipped troops shoudl they be needed.
This follows the notion that the Inquisition is not a formal organization and even though you get many formal-seeming 'groupings' established in sectors (or may build up into formal groups over time) it is not neccesarily a requirement per sector. Its a reflection of the ad-hoc and informal way the group operates as it has no definite, central authority. If any authority comes to exist regionally, it evolves over time, although as the centuries/millenia pass such authorities may through tradition become formal institutions (at least within that region.)

The origins of Fortresses thus follow that pattern. They tend to be established at the command/whim of an Inquisitor or group of inquisitors (of the same or combined ordos) and basically is just a different name for a household. Troops will be inducted (including Storm troopers) although over time we might expect that a sufficiently large Inducted Storm Trooper cadre becomes independent and trains and recruits its own people, as well as having its own resources and supply lines.

Note the 'ignorant' Inquisitors also keep research labs. Out of ignorance, one presumes.


Page 221
The largest of te Ordos is the Ordo Malleus..
Unsurprisingly, as they are the oldest along with the Grey Knights, being formed some time towards the end or after the Horus Heresy.



Page 221
One of their most sacred duties is to watch the evolution of Mankind into the ultimate psychic being, a gradual evolutionary process that inevitably results in mutations and uncontrollable powers mainfesting themselves as at errible by-product. The Witch Hunters know that only the smallest fraction of emergent psykers have the strength of mind to be allowed to live...
The Hereticus gets an interesting (and as far as I know, new) role of being the unofficial shepherds of humanity's psychic evolution. Whihc in a way makes sense, as they're the ones who monitor and cull mutation, dangerous psykers, and the like. This actually makes them seem less fanatically dickish too (becuase they actually have an end goal other than 'terrorize othres into obedience.') I have to say.

Mention is made of the Ordo Xenos and Deathwatch here too, and them using xenos weapons. lol.



Page 222
There are no limits to the assets an Inquisitor can requisition for use against the myriad foes of Mankind, from deadly assassins to mighty war ships.
..
..many decide to do so mounted within the most pwoerful of war machines available, in particular the Land Raider. Such vehicles are invariably acquired directly from a Forge World of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and while many tech-magi are suspicious, even jealous of the Inquisition, few would dare deny an Inquisitor such a request.
Many Inquisitors choose to ride to war within the armoured hold of a Land Raider Prometheus.
Inquisitors, even though they aren't Space Marines, can get Land Raiders. Which kinda suggests that if they're around for Inquisitors to requisition, they must have at least some lying around to begin with on Forge Worlds (probably for AdMech use.) but they can't really be all that rare either.



Page 222
The Prometheus' sophisticated logis-engines and auspex relays make it a formidable tool to an Inquisitor, who uses them to oversee numerous different servants and ensure they carry out their orders to the letter. By seeing what they see, their master can direct them in minute detail and do so from the nigh inviolate sanctuary of the Land Raider's interior.
...
Furthermore, an Inquisitor or specialised members of their immediate retinue can use the vehicle's sysems to access a wider network, infiltrating the communications of allies and potentially of enemies too. While ensuring the compliance of the former, the Inquisitor can sow confusion and disinformation amongst the latter and rip a foe's secrets directly from their most supposedly secure systems.
Inquisitor's use of the Prometheus Land Raider. It seems that the vox systems can interface with computer systems (the 'rip secrets from systems' bit) again indicating they can send and receive more than just vox communications.



Page 224
Like the Space Marines, the Sisters of Battle and a small number of other forces, Inquisitors and their retinues make extensive use of the Rhino armoured carrier. The vehicle is used as a high utility transport where a balance of speed, protection and armour is required.
..
...when undertaking other operations the Rhino may be a better choice, and it is often outfitted with a range of additional equipment depending on the needs of the Inquisitor and their mission.
Rhinos again.



Page 224
A very small numbr of vehicles, in particular those permanantly in service of Inquisitors operating alongside the mighty Grey Knights Chapter, might be equipped with the rare and ill-understood Warp stabilisation field. This device allows the vehicle to survive the rigours of instantaneous warp transfer, such as might be placed upon it by a Grey Knights Librarian utilising his formidable psychic powers to displace it across the battlefield.
I'm guessing its like a mini gellar field designed to facilitate warp teleports safely. Although the image ofa GK librarian teleporting a vehicle as an infiltration assault is kind of hilarious.



Page 224
Some especially insidious strains of xenos have been observed to propogate their sin of existence by way of genetic parasitism, invading microbes overwriting a subject's DNA in order to spawn a new generation. The archives contain accounts of instances where the host's outward appearance has barely changed, but the mind has been completely destroye and replaced with an utterly alien and unimaginably maleific intelligence.
They eat and replace your brain basically. Like the one that took over that IG General earlier in the book. Aren't Xenos fun?



Page 225 - mention of the Order Pronatus of the Adepta Sosoritas. Also a Rhino with reinforced armour (armour plates apparently)


Page 226
Those Inquisitors who field large numbers of troops, whether inducted Imperial Guard Storm Troopers, militant acolytes or fighters swept up in the course of operations, commonly equip them with the tried and tested Chimera armoured carrier. This vehicle is simple to operate and maintain, and all but the most primitive of soldiers will be familiar in its use. The Chimera has a larger troop carrying capacity than a Rhino, and can be produced in far less specialised manufactories...
Chimeras are simple to operate and maintain, carry more troops than Rhinos, and can be built in more places. Which again suggests the thing is common as fuck.



Page 226
The Chimera is more heavily armed than a Rhino. The vehicle's turret commonly mounts a multi laser but can also carry a heavy bolter, autocannon, or heavy flamer.
..
In addition to this primary armament the vehicle mounts a secondary weapon in a frontal weapons station.
...
..one distinctive feature of the Chimera are the twin banks of lasguns mounted along its flanks and operated by troops embarked in its transport compartment. This allows an Inquisitor's warrior servants to engage his foes without disembarking from the Chimera...
Rhino vs Chimera. Mostly in terms of guns. Lots of guns.


Page 228
The Valkyrie is issued to Imperial Guard units for special operations such as insertion behind enemy lines, rescue and sabotage missions, as well as for a more conventional airborne assault. Warriors serving in the forces of an Inquisitor are often issued with the same equipment as regular unis, and Valkyries enable the warriors and the Inquisitor leading them to meet any threat...
..
A Valkyrie is an advanced war machine containing many systems comparable with those found in Space Marine vehicles. Only a few Forge Worlds can manufacture them and the majority of those built are supplied to Storm Trooper companies or Imperial Guard Drop Troop regiments.
Valkyries are the closest the Guard ever gets to Space marine level gear, and technically they're more often assigned to the Navy (or assigned by, rather.) Although this does suggest that Storm Trooper and Drop troops typically get the majority the Guard make and do (suggesting some other regiments do get them.) No mention of the Navy anywhere here. And of course that also only refers to those made by forge worlds. Plenty of other worlds have possessed (and fielded) Valkyries or some equivalent, although perhaps not as advanced as those from Forge Worlds.


Page 232
As the elite army of the Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are equipped with the finest arms and equipment their masters can obtain. Given the staggering wealth of the Ecclesiarchy, resources are not in any way short but gold is only one measure of power in the 41st Millenium. Of far more value are blood, honour and status.
..
The Adeptus Ministorum and the Adeptus Mechanicus have a long and far from harmonious history...
..
Over the millenia the two have negotiated numerous treaties and pacts that have ensured a constant flow of arms and materiel from the Forge Worlds, in particular to equip the Battle Sisters of the Adepta Sororitas while the Adeptus Ministorum reciprocates with debts of blood and honour. As a result, the Battle Sisters have access to a range of vehicles that are rarely seen outside of the Adeptus Astartes, some of them entirely unique to their own forces, their STC imprints jealously guarded.
Despite some sources (EG Eisenhorn) hinting that the Ecclesiarchy is technologically backwards in some ways due to its animosity with the AdMech, they still have enough of cooperation for various reasons that the Ecclecsiarchy's wealth and influence guarantee the sororitas can be better equipped than the Imperial Guard. Which suggests again the main factor affecting the tech level of a force is wealth and influence (the more you have, the better a force you can field.)



Page 232
..the Adepta Sororitas relies upon the services of attached Tech-Priests to maintain and repair its vehicles. When called upon to go to war, they are crewed by specially trained Battle sisters, assisted where needed by Servitors and Techno-mats provided by the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Again mention of the Servitors and Technomats to assist Techpriests, as well as the lexmechanics from before.



Page 233
The Sisters of Battle make extensive use of the Rhino armoured troop carrier, in particular the MkIIc Mars pattern, the iconic model produced across the Imperium and most commonly used by the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes as well as other august bodies.
They mention a Immolator variant used by the Sisters that features a higher superstructure than the MkIIc with arched vision blocks for all round view and an unusual arrangement of fire and acess points. Seems to be the MkIIIa mars pattern. Also has some sort of opening that normally is the Immolator's mounting point but can be modified to serve as a hatch. These are considered 'cosmetic' differences, comedically.



Page 233
.the Rhino is of particular use to the Sisters of Battle for the same reason it is used by the Space Marines. Its interior is designed to be used by troops wearing power armour, albeit that the suits worn by the Adepta Sororitas are nowhere near as bulky as the Adeptus Astartes patterns. In addition, their embarkation stations are fitted with a number of integration points into which a passenger can interface her power armour's various functions. This allows recharging of the power armour's motive core as well as communion between machine systems and the ex-loading of biometric data.
Sororitas armour in this case runs off power cells that need recharging, and can also store and upload biometric data into the Rhino (for whatever reason). Suggesting a fair bit of automation/computerization for the vehicle, at leats.




Page 233
The Adeptus Ministorum is possessed of a wide range of entirely unique and unusual vehicles, many of them recovered from ancient battlefields, others rendered up by planetary rulers as the rightful due of the Ecclesiarch.
Like Inquisitiors and the Munitorum/Administratum, the Ecclesiarchy demands its tithe from planetary rulers. One assumes the amount of military tithing they demand even in vehciles is rather limited, lest they be accused of violating the Decree Passive. But its never stopped the Ecclesiarchy form manipulating or stelaing military power whenever they can (EG such as the appropriated military resources from the Margin Crusade in Calixis.)



Page 233
The greatest [vehicles of the Ecclesiarchy] take the form of gargantuan mobile cathedrals, their flanks clad in metres-thick armour wrought in gothic finery, their immense weight supported upon enormous tracks or even held aloft by grav repulsors of Dark Age of Technology provenance. Some are even made mobile by enormous tracks or articulated limbs, each step stamping metres deep imprints upon the face of a world.
..
Vast annunciation engines blast prayers, hymnals and sermons across the landscape...
..
..great ramps lower from teh sides and down them spill countless thousands of the faithful, led by the zealous Battle Sisters..
Oh god is this the Ecclesiarchy version of 'Escalation' superheavies? Giant walking doom cathedrals? Note the 'metres thick' armour, not unlike some bigger titans, as well as the variable propuslions - from giant legs to antigrav (which is supposed to be lost tech remember!) Its hilarious and incredible. Oh and they transport thousands of troops as well.



Page 234
..discovering ancient crystal data-stacks dating back to the Dark Age of Technology.
..
The Ecclesiarchy determined to keep the discovery on Fornost a secret, planning to retain the data-stacks as a future bargaining tool.
It would be many years before a full accord was reached, but eventually the rulers of the Adeptus Ministorum and the Adpetus Mechanicus negotiated a mutually agreeable settlement. In return for access to the data-stacks, the Adeptus Mechanicus would cede to the Ministorum exclusive claim to any new weapons technologies the archived relinquished. AFter many wayers, such a weapon was discovered. From deep within the data-stacks was culled half complete files detailing a flame-thrower tank. When these files were combined with STC data for the Rhino already stored on Mars, the Immolator was created. Under the terms of the accord the Tech-Priests of Mars began manufacture of the vheicle exclusively for the Ministorum, who used it to equip the Adepta Sororitas. The Fornosian Accord still stands today and the Immolator design is still jealously guarded by the Ministorum.
Unlike certain Space Marine Chapters, the Ecclesiarchy uses discovered technical knowledge to barter with the AdMech, which again shows how much for the AdMech it is about controlling the technology.



Page 234
Some Immolators, known as the 'Justice' pattern, are armed with fearsome multi-meltas. A few vehicles, known as the 'Sanctis' pattern, are equipped with heavy bolters.
The Immolator and variants can still carry a squad, unlike Razorbacks it seem. Immolator has 20 two second flamer shots. 20mm gun mantlet and 60mm armour all around. This is basically the Sororitas variants of Hellhounds, Devil Dogs, etc.



page 236 - mention of the Exorcists alternating between more conventional missile launchers (armour piercing missiles) whilst some are VLS organs.



PAge 236
The Exorcist has been in service of the Adepta Sororitas since the dark days of the Age of Apostasy. Some Exorcists in service in the 41st Millneium are the original vehicles dating back to that period and as such are greatly venerated. These ancient machines of war are barely understood by the Adeptus Mechanicus Tech-Priests tasked with maintaining them. Being so old these Exorcists have a reputation as temperamental and difficult.
again its Ecclesarichy specific, although the reason here is supposedly its a 'religios' icon as much as a war machine. Even though in this case older is better is rathre questionable. They are also one of the more heaviyl armed vehicles - 80mm turret, 100mm superstructure. but.. zerp armor on hull (?) Go figure.
Exorcist is only 32 tonnes, carries 48 missiles and a top on road speed of 55 kph, off road of 35 kph. Slower than the immolator.

It mentions that they are exclusive to the Sororitas by Ecclesiarchy Bull, although how they managed to pull that off with the AdMech is bound to be a source of comedy.


Page 238
The Rhino hull is extensively modified by extending the transport compartment into a raised superstructure and adding side-facing firing slits through which embarked Battle Sisters may fire..
More 'cosmetic' differences between Rhino variants. Mention of the Repressor originating iwth the Arbites as a crowd suppression vehicle (dozer for plowing mobs and a water cannon or grenade launcher firing gas/stun grenades.)



Page 238 - riot of a million pilgrims on shrine world overwhelms local Arbites precints. Probably means they were vastly outnumbered, and once an armoury was taken (militia armory) they were overwhelmed.

But not apparently so overwhelmed that a dozen Repressors crweed by Battle Sisters couldn't turn the tide.

Further comedy as they retained the modified Repressors (stuff that burns shit rather than nonlethal weaponry of course) but this caused dissent and complaint form other Orders that only they had them, until a Synod decreed it for general use as pat o fthe 'sanctioned canon' of vehicles. Like many rhino variants it retains troop carrying capacity although is mentioned to not neccesarily be a dedicated APC/frontline transport (probably due to the huge ass firing slits in the side.)

Repressor has a height of 4.3 m, 4.5 m wide, 8.7m long. 55 kph on road, 35 kph off road (despite only 33 tonnes and having the same reactor as any other vairant.)
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