Doctor Who S34E2: "Into The Dalek" Spoilers

[The Guid]

So, what the hell is the Doctor's beef about Journey?

"Sorry, you can't go on a trip with me, because you enlisted in defending your species against a genocidal race of pepper pots, so I want to morally judge you for it and leave you here."

I think he sees the world in a very specific binary of warriors and non warriors. It comes from seeing wars all across the universe. It is, quite clearly, within the narrative a prejudice not based on the person. It is why he initially didn't fight in the Time War, and why he specifically doesn't see himself as the Doctor when he is a "warrior"

[Crazedwraith]

Do you mean this specific Doctor or all of them? Because the Doctor's had plenty of warrior companians in the past.

---

A mildly funny thing occurred to me earlier. Given tomorrow is a Robin Hood themed episode. Is Doctor Who taking notes from Blackadder: Back And forth?! Like a recursive reference thing?

[Bedlam]

Do you mean this specific Doctor or all of them? Because the Doctor's had plenty of warrior companians in the past.

---

A mildly funny thing occurred to me earlier. Given tomorrow is a Robin Hood themed episode. Is Doctor Who taking notes from Blackadder: Back And forth?! Like a recursive reference thing?

I think it's something that's built up over time, certainly the third doctor dealt with 'warriors' a lot, although he wasn't keen on everything UNIT did, entombing the silurians for example. The forth seemed to be trying to 'de-warrior' Leela, where as the fifth was quite pacifist (pulling a gun on Davros was a huge thing for him), six and seven got a little more aggressive although seven wasn't beyond fighting at arms length. Eight seemed to go back to pacifism threatening to shoot himself rather than point a weapon at someone else.

In his more recent incarnations it's clearly a reaction to the time war and the things he and his people did in it, trying to distance himself from his 'soldier' self.

[FaxModem1]

It's something I've just gotten annoyed with when it comes to NewWho. Soldiers, armies and guns are bad, no exceptions. The Tenth Doctor's almost Batman-ish dislike of guns was when it was at it's peak, but it has continued on with 11 and especially here in 12, where being a soldier, using a gun, or defending yourself or others professionally is viewed by the Doctor, and by the showmakers themselves, as evil. This led to the culmination of the Tenth Doctor refusing to shoot the Master with a pistol in End of Time to prevent 7 billion people from being killed.

It'd be one thing if it was something that was just the Doctor's PTSD from the Time War, but there's a problem with that. One, the showrunners portray the Doctor in the right for having this attitude, almost every single time and two, The Time War wasn't that bad, since as of Day of the Doctor, it was all made into a non-event and that no one died, and all the Doctor's guilt about it since 'Rose' on has been nothing but a sham, as there were no consequences for the Time War. Honestly, why is he still having feelings of guilt about it since Gallifrey is fine, just cooling their jets somewhere in an alternate dimension?

Either the writers forgot they saved Gallifrey and that the Time War never happened, so the Doctor should stop being so mopey about it, or make Day of the Doctor non-canon, so they can continue their preaching about how horrible it is for anyone to fight, even to defend.

[DaveJB]

The Doctor didn't undo the Time War in its entirety, just Gallifrey's destruction. And the Doctor wasn't traumatized just by destroying Gallifrey; it was the trauma of fighting the Time War for so many years and seeing so many innocents die that caused the War Doctor to snap and decide to wipe out the Time Lords, the Daleks and possibly more besides.

Incidentally, this probably explains why the universe is suddenly full of RTD-era Daleks again. The ones that didn't get blown up in Gallifrey's destruction likely thought they had won, escaped the Time Lock, exterminated the Power Rangers Daleks and started rebuilding their empire. (The real-world explanation of course being that Moffat obviously realized the "Victory" Daleks were the biggest fuck-up since the Sixth Doctor's coat)

As for soldier lady, I think what the episode was trying to imply was that she wanted to join the Doctor for the wrong reasons; instead of doing it to explore the universe, broaden her worldview and save a civilization every now and again, she was just doing it because she wanted to kill Daleks.

[FaxModem1]

It didn't come off that way. It came off as Journey wanting to leave the life of being a soldier behind and try being a civilian again, and instead the Doctor slams the door on her for ever deciding to be one in the first place.

[jwl]

The Doctor didn't undo the Time War in its entirety, just Gallifrey's destruction. And the Doctor wasn't traumatized just by destroying Gallifrey; it was the trauma of fighting the Time War for so many years and seeing so many innocents die that caused the War Doctor to snap and decide to wipe out the Time Lords, the Daleks and possibly more besides.

Incidentally, this probably explains why the universe is suddenly full of RTD-era Daleks again. The ones that didn't get blown up in Gallifrey's destruction likely thought they had won, escaped the Time Lock, exterminated the Power Rangers Daleks and started rebuilding their empire. (The real-world explanation of course being that Moffat obviously realized the "Victory" Daleks were the biggest fuck-up since the Sixth Doctor's coat)

As for soldier lady, I think what the episode was trying to imply was that she wanted to join the Doctor for the wrong reasons; instead of doing it to explore the universe, broaden her worldview and save a civilization every now and again, she was just doing it because she wanted to kill Daleks.

They have already explained why you don't see so much "victory" daleks in asylum of the daleks: the five coloured daleks built a load of gold ones, keeping their unique design to themselves.

The episode clearly (to me, anyway) was not trying to imply that the doctor is right in not allowing blue on the tardis. The implication of that, and clara's comment afterwards about not having a rule against soldiers, gives the perception that the doctor is being unfair, and this will possibly be reversed later in the series.

[Crazedwraith]

Presumably Mr Pink is being set up as a potential companion.

[InsaneTD]

Well the doctor did basically just fight the time way again, all by himself on Trenzalor (How is that spelt?). I can forgive him not wanting a warrior around. I think she also wanted to join him cause she thought she owed him for saving her. You also have to remember that wibbly wobbly timey wimey, hurt and Tennant didn't save Gallifrey, Smith did. The other doctors remember it as they said it had occurred.

And Gallifrey is on earth in that "painting". It's what the doctor said he was trying to do in day of the doctor.

[Themightytom]

I think the doctor specifically said soldier not warrior it might be semantics, but he generally uses the term when someone points a gun at him instead of treating him reasonably. I mean from his perspective he rescued Blue, and she got up and pointed a gun at him, then threatened to shoot him and steal the TARDIS? i mean why does he even believe that her brother died, just because she said so?

I also think that while the TARDIS seems to be much more capable than the Doctor lets on there might be a few malfunctions in the way he actually flies it. We KNOW he leaves the parking break on... NOW we know he can materialize it around someone in an exploding ship, but he chose to just land in front of someone falling off a building and have them land in a pool. He does weird things with it, probably on purpose. I'm not gonna use the word socio pathic... but it's a recurring theme that the Doctor doesn't REALLY connect with people day to day. He tries, to, he makes a conscientious effort to have a companion as a conscience, and he says big things about "The people are too small I prefer to be closer"
But... he doesn't really grasp things like social niceities... the need to exchange currency for occupancy (rent) there are huge gaps in how he connects socially probably because he has such a broad exposure that he knows a massive crossection of social constructs, but hasn't mastered the nuances of them. Leaving Clara in Glassgow by "Accident" seems unlikely. He's a time lord, and the TARDIS is CAPABLE of doing it right, he knows what minutes days and hours are theoretically, but he may not grasp the improtance of them to others. He dedicated hundreds of years to defending Trenzalore, it didn't even seem to bore him doing it either, which is frankly amazing considering his love of travel, so maybe he's just been around so much that while he understands the concept of time and it's increments incredibly well scientifically, he doesn't attach emotional importance to it. He is depicted as increasingly mathematical, he's got a chalk board right in the control room, cerebral too, he has a book case, so maybe this doctor just isn't as good with people as say David Tennant's was, or Tom Baker's was?

He DID say he'd look ridiculous in a scarf just before robbing a bum.

[Broomstick]

I really was not thrilled with is being on some level a re-write of Fantastic Voyage, down to one member of the party being attacked by antibodies. That bumped it down a notch or two in the voting from my perspective.

Other than that, though, I think they're developing the new Doctor's character. He really isn't as nice and/or silly as the last one. I think this one it going to try to atone for what he perceives as the errors of his prior selves.

Remember - for a long time the Doctor thought his last regeneration really was his LAST regeneration, that he'd die for good at the end of it. He's basically had a reprieve from death and is now reflecting on his past life(s). He clearly wants to be a good man but fears he isn't.

Personally, I say he is a great man - not a good one. By that I mean his life is epic and he is capable of doing wondrous/awful/awesome things... which are not necessarily good things, even if they are to the long-term benefit of many. Even the best doctor can not save all his patients, nor can the Doctor save everyone, as he has learned.

The whole question of whether or not there can be a "good" Dalek is actually the part I found most intriguing. How do you define "Dalek", how do you define "good"? At the end, Rusty is a "good Dalek" from the Human perspective because he's now on the side of the Humans. From the Dalek perspective Rusy is damaged, insane, and bad. Rusty still perceives hate as a beautiful thing - because he is a Dalek. As the Doctor noted, destroying things is pretty much what Daleks do, so in that sense Rusty is still a Dalek and a good one, the only thing that's different is his target.

So... is the Doctor a good man? Is he good from the Human perspective, despite not being Human? Is he a good Gallifreyan/Time Lord? Is there an abstract quality of "good"?

This was very, very briefly touched on in "A Good Man Goes to War" when the Doctor says "A good man doesn't need rules - today is not the day to find out why I have so many." He doesn't perceive himself to be a good man (well, no, he believed he had exterminated both the Daleks and his own race - wow, double-genocide, no wonder the Daleks have a streak of admiration for him!). He wants to be, though. Clara stating that he keeps trying to be a good man, and maybe that's the main thing, is telling.

[SpottedKitty]

At the end, Rusty is a "good Dalek" from the Human perspective because he's now on the side of the Humans.

Except IMHO he isn't actually on the side of the Humans, he's against the rest of the Daleks. A bit of a nitpick, I know, but isn't that one of the things Daleks do best? What does he do whenever he doesn't have any other Daleks in zapping range...?

[Havok]

Yeah, he's still a genocidal killing machine. He just wants to kill the Daleks instead of everyone else. He's not good by any stretch, just fallen in line with our own aims.

[Broomstick]

That IS why "good Dalek" is in quotes - he's not good, at best he's an enemy of an enemy. He's still a nasty, murderous little squid.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Broomstick, what you were saying about the Doctor being a great man not a good one reminds me of the quote from Sherlock, that "He's a great man, and one day, if we're all very lucky, he might even be a good one." Unsurprising since both came from Moffat, but it is certainly interesting.