Originality for a villian species

[Borgholio]

Imagine how humanity would react if we suddenly woke up one day to have sense of smell comparable to dogs.

My own morning breath would kill me.

[Mr Bean]

Imagine how humanity would react if we suddenly woke up one day to have sense of smell comparable to dogs.

My own morning breath would kill me.

Look forward to massive amounts of new regulations on stores and how we store things and the like. Something like a supermarket would store cleaners and supplies in sealed containers like freezers but just for order. Hell artificial smells would vanish quickly from lots of products.

[Broomstick]

Suddenly having a new sense doesn't sound comfortable either.

Or just enhancing a sense we don't use that often. Imagine how humanity would react if we suddenly woke up one day to have sense of smell comparable to dogs.

There actually IS some precedent for that. See Oliver Sacks' essay "To See and Not See", for just one example. There is also some data out there on congenitally deaf people given cochlear implants as adults.

The adult brain pretty much has its processing power divvied up already. The addition of a new sense doesn't make your head explode or anything, you will be able to learn to process some of the new information but only to a limited degree. Now, giving a new sense to an infant - that will yield different results, so on a certain level engineering your kids for new "accessories" is more likely to work that doing that to adults.

[SilverDragonRed]

Er... do you understand what you're saying?

What does it mean to "breed alien genetics into" an organism? An attempt at sexual reproduction between creatures from different planets is obviously not going to work unless the two creatures are actually closely related subspecies who shared a point of origin from the geologically recent past. So clearly this would have to be done by artificial intervention of some kind- genetic engineering.

In which case it seems quite accurate to say that they are "splicing" genes from various organisms into their offspring.

I stand corrected then. Guess it's a good thing; makes the species a little less rapey than initially concieved.

That does give me one idea. One faction* sees the variation between sentient species in the galaxy. They see how those differences make it difficult for devices designed for one race to work for another. So they decided to remove those differences. Instead of claiming that one race is superior to the others, they believe that no race is superior, so some sort of average is the best end result to aim for.

*They could start as a sinlge species, or a group of like-minded individuals from multiple species.

I can imagine the procedure that "homogenizes" other races may be quite horrific for cultural or actual physical reasons; to certain species the loss of certain biological functions in their brain-equivalent structures might actually result in a loss of continuity of consciousness. Or, say, causes loss of unique sensory capability that makes them depressed (the way sight or hearing is for us).

The really chilling thing about this, is that despite the fact that this faction is impinging on the rights of other species, you can actually see how they really do have good intentions :O

No less damaging than when their forced to undergo the cloning procedures.

Bilateralrope, I do like your idea for 'homogenization' for tech purposes. It does certainly work for the inner galaxies where there are only two major races inhabitating them. Would you allow me to use this group as a major political faction in their society?

[bilateralrope]

Bilateralrope, I do like your idea for 'homogenization' for tech purposes. It does certainly work for the inner galaxies where there are only two major races inhabitating them. Would you allow me to use this group as a major political faction in their society?

Go ahead.

[Raw Shark]

Er... do you understand what you're saying?

What does it mean to "breed alien genetics into" an organism? An attempt at sexual reproduction between creatures from different planets is obviously not going to work unless the two creatures are actually closely related subspecies who shared a point of origin from the geologically recent past. So clearly this would have to be done by artificial intervention of some kind- genetic engineering.

In which case it seems quite accurate to say that they are "splicing" genes from various organisms into their offspring.

I stand corrected then. Guess it's a good thing; makes the species a little less rapey than initially concieved.

Rapiness depends on sub-genre. There's a pretty well-established Aliens Want Human Women trope in 50s-style sci-fi, but that's not exactly a body of work that is especially concerned with scientific realism...

[Simon_Jester]

In the context of modern SF this is very much a trope of C-list fiction. The idea that beings from different worlds are biologically incompatible has spread pretty widely. There are a few exceptions that get grandfathered in. Like Star Trek where we see human-Klingon, human-Vulcan, and human-otherstuff hybrids rather often. But there aren't nearly as many examples of this in newer fiction, and there's some very popular settings like Mass Effect that work rather hard to emphasize the genetic in-compatibility between different species.

[Havok]

Uh... what?
Mass Effect has a species that can reproduce with ANY species.
And honestly in Mass Effect, with the galaxy being wiped out over and over again AFTER interstellar transportation is discovered, I doubt any of the different species are all that incompatible given the "older" races visit all the same worlds they can through the gates contaminating every planet every cycle.

Also Star Trek explained why all the species can interbreed.

And AN ENTIRE species with one goal? Isn't that incredibly unoriginal in itself?

[Simon_Jester]

Uh... what?
Mass Effect has a species that can reproduce with ANY species.

Except they explicitly don't do it genetically, it's some kind of weird psychic nerve thing.

Also Star Trek explained why all the species can interbreed.

It did, but it's still a thing that people look at as being rather unlikely and odd. I mean, Klingons and such have a drastically different basic physiology than humans that they really shouldn't be reproductively compatible without crippling deformities; Vulcans have totally different blood chemistry among other things.

I'm not saying they didn't make a good faith effort to explain, just that it's the sort of thing that a modern SF audience has trouble taking at face value.

And AN ENTIRE species with one goal? Isn't that incredibly unoriginal in itself?

That's a point I tried to touch on earlier. It doesn't really make sense that everyone in a whole species with many billions or even trillions of members is so unflinchingly devoted to a single ideological goal.

It's one thing if it's some kind of biological imperative- say, an entire species that needs a certain mineral in their diet, and is willing to conquer whole worlds to get that mineral.

But when it's something that is not required for their survival, it seems likely that there'd be a lot of "Average Joe" members of the species who don't really care about it. Or splinter factions that dissent from the ideology, or that agree with the ideology but want to implement it differently.

[Havok]

Uh... what?
Mass Effect has a species that can reproduce with ANY species.

Except they explicitly don't do it genetically, it's some kind of weird psychic nerve thing.

True, and it's not like the babies come out any different. Good point.

And AN ENTIRE species with one goal? Isn't that incredibly unoriginal in itself?

That's a point I tried to touch on earlier. It doesn't really make sense that everyone in a whole species with many billions or even trillions of members is so unflinchingly devoted to a single ideological goal.

This. I hate this and it's why uncreative writers use the whole insect "hive mind" bullshit.

It's one thing if it's some kind of biological imperative- say, an entire species that needs a certain mineral in their diet, and is willing to conquer whole worlds to get that mineral.

The Element McGuffin. Aliens must have our water/air/wood/planet. You mean you can spend 10 thousand years in stasis, travel trillions of miles, but you can't terraform a planet or replant a fucking forest, find some fucking water?

But when it's something that is not required for their survival, it seems likely that there'd be a lot of "Average Joe" members of the species who don't really care about it. Or splinter factions that dissent from the ideology, or that agree with the ideology but want to implement it differently.

This just gets too complicated and hard for most writers in my opinion and it's not terribly awful, because I don't expect someone that is good with a basic interesting story and plot to be good at political and societal motivations or political intrigue or espionage or whatever.

[Cykeisme]

What's Trek's explanation for the various alien species being able to interbreed?
I mean, putting aside for a moment that it seems their offspring are fertile as well, which essentially defines all the different aliens (humans included) as all being of the same species.

Seems to me that it's more probable you'd be able to breed with a kangaroo, a crocodile, or even a sequoia redwood, compared to a Vulkan or a Klingon.

I'm assuming Trek's explained that all the races are biologically engineered by a precursor race at some point?

[Borgholio]

What's Trek's explanation for the various alien species being able to interbreed?
I mean, putting aside for a moment that it seems their offspring are fertile as well, which essentially defines all the different aliens (humans included) as all being of the same species.

Seems to me that it's more probable you'd be able to breed with a kangaroo, a crocodile, or even a sequoia redwood, compared to a Vulkan or a Klingon.

I'm assuming Trek's explained that all the races are biologically engineered by a precursor race at some point?

Trek has one origin species that seeded their DNA among many worlds, which is why most sentients in the STverse are humanoid in appearance. Some of them appear to be able to interbreed without assistance, such as Humans and Vulcans. Some have issues though. I recall an episode of DS9 where Jadzia and Worf wanted to have a baby and Bashier had to do some sort of genetic re-sequencing to ensure that the fetus would develop normally.

[Simon_Jester]

It's one thing if it's some kind of biological imperative- say, an entire species that needs a certain mineral in their diet, and is willing to conquer whole worlds to get that mineral.

The Element McGuffin. Aliens must have our water/air/wood/planet. You mean you can spend 10 thousand years in stasis, travel trillions of miles, but you can't terraform a planet or replant a fucking forest, find some fucking water?

Well no, obviously not something mundane like water. I'm thinking more like, oh... rare earth elements. Or some kind of bizarre thing, a product of their own native environment that they evolved to be unable to live without. A thing that cannot easily be reproduced, and which naturally occurs only in certain places (i.e. NOT every little moon). Or maybe something like melange from Dune, a product that they can live without but cannot function as a powerful polity without- just as without melange, the humans of Dune cannot navigate interstellar space.

But when it's something that is not required for their survival, it seems likely that there'd be a lot of "Average Joe" members of the species who don't really care about it. Or splinter factions that dissent from the ideology, or that agree with the ideology but want to implement it differently.

This just gets too complicated and hard for most writers in my opinion and it's not terribly awful, because I don't expect someone that is good with a basic interesting story and plot to be good at political and societal motivations or political intrigue or espionage or whatever.

Fair enough, but ignoring that issue is unwise, because it leads to deeply disturbing SF trends such as "whole enemy culture is FANATICALLY DEVOTED to this thing, which CONVENIENTLY JUSTIFIES my totally annihilating them!"

[madd0ct0r]

Why does it have to be more complicated then greed? It fuelled all of the colonization efforts here on earth, but was after a much wider range of things then golden macguffins

[Simon_Jester]

I agree- but then, you won't see an entire species all uniformly and identically super-greedy. Lots of individual humans and for that matter human polities made mutually respectful agreements with native populations, or lived with them for extended periods of time.

The point is that if an alien species really is uniformly hostile, it's probably because that species is doing something they can't possibly NOT do and still continue to exist in a desireable form.

...

Also, if you think about it, a LOT of the more brutal colonial efforts really were after some specific McGuffin commodity like silver, gold, furs, spices, cash crops like cotton and rubber, slaves or the like. The most common exceptions were groups of colonists either fleeing persecution at home, or being shipped out as penal colonists.

Look at what happened to, for example, Bangladesh- a thriving regional economy that was only mildly pre-industrial, then the East India Company came in, disrupted the local food infrastructure and pushed everyone into growing indigo and poppies. The result? Regular famines and the collapse of the old economy.

Now, that can certainly be explained by 'greed' rather than 'need-' but from the point of view of the victims of this kind of conquest, there's very little practical difference between "they conquered THIS planet to grow their coffee and THIS planet to grow their recreational drugs" and "they conquered these planets to produce the Spice that lets them travel between worlds, because the supply on their homeworld is starting to run low."

[madd0ct0r]

What did they come here for grandpa?

The old man stared at the fire before he answered. "everything, little one, they came for everything. They seived the seas for uranium and the sands for spice. Cities became factories, forests their farmland. They took some of us for our genes and others for their minds. More died after giving up their gut flora then were hunted for sport. Slowly or quickly, they pushed us back, buying land or pacifying rebellion. If the land was sunny they needed it for panelling, if it was cold they needed it for breeding grounds. Some of us went back to the sky with them, crawling in their biospheres. Others live in the cities still, wired into their work, chemically happy. A precious few of us were granted the right to live without them, without the stem-washes or the security net. That's what this reservation is, this Isle of man

[Simon_Jester]

I guess another point is that if you want your aliens to be distinctively nonhuman, having them behave exactly like historical humans is not enough.

Now, it can work, it can be a productive part of a good story. But you then need something else to make them convincingly alien. For instance, they can be big blood-drinking brain-blobs that are helpless without their machines- which was H. G. Wells' approach when he deliberately based his alien Martians on the way Englishmen had treated the natives of Tasmania.