Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[consequences]

There is no reason that the railgun would have to be strictly linear in its acceleration of projectiles, a scaled up cyclotron would let you accelerate the projectile to your hearts content, or the limits of the available technology, before firing at the target. Barrel length helps to increase projectile speed with modern weapons because more of the explosive force used to launch a round is used to push the projectile out of the length of the barrel. This means a rifle has a much higher muzzle velocity than a pistol loaded with the same cartridge, but has nothing to do with a railgun's operation.

[buzz_knox]

There is no reason that the railgun would have to be strictly linear in its acceleration of projectiles, a scaled up cyclotron would let you accelerate the projectile to your hearts content, or the limits of the available technology, before firing at the target. Barrel length helps to increase projectile speed with modern weapons because more of the explosive force used to launch a round is used to push the projectile out of the length of the barrel. This means a rifle has a much higher muzzle velocity than a pistol loaded with the same cartridge, but has nothing to do with a railgun's operation.

Not quite. A cyclotron is effective for high particle velocity in a confined space. Do you really want even a couple of grams of matter going in a circle at extremely high speeds, just waiting for a coil to fail? Plus, cyclotrons waste a lot of energy in controlling the angular momentum of the subject matter. With particles, no big deal. With projectiles, very big deal.

As for barrel length, the rails of the railgun (or the coils in a coil gun, which is a vastly superior design) constitute the "barrel". The longer the barrel, the longer the projectile will be affected by the magnetic field and thus the higher the velocity. If anything, barrel length will be more critical with magnetic weapons as there is a certain point with conventional weapons where the gas pressure tapers off and increased barrel length actually slows the round. With mag weapons, increased barrel length translates into higher velocities assuming that the entire "barrel" is charged.

[omegaLancer]

You make it sound like Slipstream is complete random. It's only random for AI's like Rommie. The very act of choosing a path in the slipstream changes the path itself. To AI's like Rommie, the slipstream is just the opposite, the path is either right or wrong. It was stated in the show if you pick a path, it's usually the right one. Also, the pilot's confidence in his/her/it's own skills is also an important factor given the nature of slipstream. Even Rommie managed to cover 66 million yrs distance in 13 months wandering through random slipstream portals when she lost her entire crew when it was occupied by Magog. Even a ship flying blind through the slipstream is as fast as the fastest hyperdrive that the Empire has. And I doubt High Guard would put 'unlucky' pilots in the slipstream controls

Problem is that Slip steam cannot be navigated by an AI...
only organic minds can "Guess" according to System Common Wealth, this is supported by the fact that the Machine Race that occupies the space between Galaxies, needed to use Organic Brains merged to AI component to follow Andromeda into Slip steam...

This lead to one paradox/ enigma, dealing with the rommie ill faithed mission to the Magog world ship, how she manage to return

How does one determine a Lucky pilot? Luck is an uncontrollable factor, as it stands no one slip steam jump is like another.. And if you are not at the right point, a location may not be avaliable.. why else would Rommie and an unarm convey brave an enemy held system, if not to save 9 hours to deliver medical supplies...Slip steam travel is not as dependable, but has a higher potential speed compare to Hyperdrive, but their would be many instants that Hyperdrive equip ship may beat a Slip steam ship to an location...


As for the missiles, if a star destroyer fire a boardside of 60 weapons ( of varies sizes and power that would mean that the bracing and hull would be expose to at lease 60 X the stress you stated ... The fact is the engineering of the any bracing or any physical structure is unknown, but since KE weapons are not unknown, ( rail guns, etc) if was as effecived as you assume, Gauss cannon would replace Turbo laser as the main weapons of star ships, for all we known the Shield may redirect the reactive force to the hull of the ship ( which is compose of Nuetronium Alloy) than to the shield emitter itself or dispel it an unknown manner....

Since none of the novels state that KE weapons, destroys bracing of Shield emitters, or that they have a greater effect on SWships.. The only weapon that seem to have any special advantages against shields ( SW version) seem to be proton torpedoes...For the relative low yields they seem to have to have the abilities in suffients numbers to cause temporary shield breaches, and Ion cannons that ignore them..

[Crossover_Maniac]

Problem is that Slip steam cannot be navigated by an AI...only organic minds can "Guess" according to System Common Wealth, this is supported by the fact that the Machine Race that occupies the space between Galaxies, needed to use Organic Brains merged to AI component to follow Andromeda into Slip steam...

If you'd pay closer attention to the show, you'd know that by 'guessing' you alter the path of the slipstream itself.

How does one determine a Lucky pilot? Luck is an uncontrollable factor, as it stands no one slip steam jump is like another..

Actually luck is controlled by the pilot. From the Official FAQ

Quantum Mechanics holds that there is a certain irreducible uncertainty about events in the very small-scale world of elementary particles. Because it is impossible to simultaneously measure a particle's position and velocity (direction of travel, along with speed) to a high degree of accuracy (this is due to the fact that the only way to measure these things about a particle is to hit it with another particle, such as a photon, and this will cause the target particle's position and velocity to change unpredictably), some scientists interpret this to mean that a particle's position and velocity are indeterminate until observed. That means, the particle does not really HAVE an objective position or velocity until some conscious mind looks at it, and until then, it exists only as a cloud of possible positions, a cloud of probabilities. The behavior of the Slipstream seems to agree with this interpretation, because until an organic being makes a choice about which slipstream path they will follow, all pathways seem equally "correct" to any non-organic instrumentation. This means that Artificial Intelligences, such as Rommie, cannot reliably navigate slipstream on their own. Unmanned ships can still open a slip portal and enter Slipstream, but once in the 'stream, they can only wander blindly, never sure where they would turn up if they were to exit the slipstream at any given time. Rommie herself once wandered the Slipstream in this way for 13 months after her original crew was killed during her first encounter with the Magog World Ship.

This is the actual nature of slipstream. Do you honostly believe an government can be exist with a complete random for of transportation. If you want to understand slipstream, look at quantum mechanics for particles, not a roulette wheel.

And if you are not at the right point, a location may not be avaliable.. why else would Rommie and an unarm convey brave an enemy held system, if not to save 9 hours to deliver medical supplies...Slip steam travel is not as dependable, but has a higher potential speed compare to Hyperdrive, but their would be many instants that Hyperdrive equip ship may beat a Slip steam ship to an location...

I have a theory of that. The ships were near the Drago-Kazoff (spelling?) Nietzchean territory. IOW: they were taking the long way around and avoided the faster slipstream routes that would used by that Nietzchean pride.

As for the missiles, if a star destroyer fire a boardside of 60 weapons ( of varies sizes and power that would mean that the bracing and hull would be expose to at lease 60 X the stress you stated ...

Wrong! First, the values I gave were for the heavy turbolasers. ISD's does have 60 HTL, they have 60 light turbolasers. They're at the 7 megaton range, producing only 0.0035% of the force that the heavy turbolasers would produce assuming they are massless particles. Secondly, you have a poor understanding of the term stress. Hopefully, this example will clarify things for you. Take two tables and slide them together, but leave about 8 inches between them. Take 60 foot-long plastic rulers, and put a small weight, about 1/2 pound on each one. Now, remove all but one ruler, and put a 30 lb weight on it. Now, with the line of reasoning you were using, the tables should be able to support 30 lbs in the space between them regardless of the distribution of the force of gravity on each ruler, rather you using 60 rulers or just one. The bracketing and casing only has to deal with the force generated by one light or heavy turbolaser each. Now, if the force generated by all of the turbolasers were distributed on a single turbolaser support bracket and recoil absorption casing, then it would be too much force all in one area. That is where stress comes in. It's how much force within a given area.

The fact is the engineering of the any bracing or any physical structure is unknown, but since KE weapons are not unknown, ( rail guns, etc) if was as effecived as you assume, Gauss cannon would replace Turbo laser as the main weapons of star ships,

Assuming they have the technology to accelerate projectiles at relativistic velocities in short distances. In the pilot episode, the Maru was being accelerated at 69,000 g's into a blackhole. Since, the Maru was able to climb out of the wormhole, it can accelerate at 69,000 g's. How do I know. A rocket taking off from the Earth's surface cannot leave the ground unless the thrust it's producing is just as high as its weights. If the Maru was subjected to 67,000 g's of gravitational force, it could generated just as much The ship was taking more subjected to higher accelerations than any SW ships I've seen. In fact, it almost has the same acceleration as the proton torpedo used by Luke to destroy the Death Star. Even old rust buckets like the Maru can out accelerate fighters.

for all we known the Shield may redirect the reactive force to the hull of the ship ( which is compose of Nuetronium Alloy) than to the shield emitter itself or dispel it an unknown manner....

Well, we do know the Hoth asteroid did damage to the ships, so they are vulnerable to impact damage. As for Nuetronium, it's just another name for an element on the periodic table, somewhere between hydrogen and uranium. Nuetronium is probably the SW name for depleted uranium.

Since none of the novels state that KE weapons, destroys bracing of Shield emitters, or that they have a greater effect on SWships.. The only weapon that seem to have any special advantages against shields ( SW version) seem to be proton torpedoes...For the relative low yields they seem to have to have the abilities in suffients numbers to cause temporary shield breaches,

The damage is done exclusively by the explosive warhead, not by relativistic impacts like the offensive missiles from the GHC.

and Ion cannons that ignore them..

Glad you mentioned the ion cannons. The AP guns on the GHC are, in a sense, ion cannons since anti-protons would carry a negative charge, and these particles would be traveling at .99c. Although, the ISD's maybe able to reflect them using powerful magnetic fields, and I do mean powerful.

[Crossover_Maniac]

More quotes from the All Systems University

Another unusual aspect of slipstream is the requirement of an organic pilot to guide a starship through the slipstream. At an intersection of pathways in slipstream space, both paths manifest the potentiality of being correct and incorrect. It's only when the pilot chooses a specific direction that this potentiality collapses and one path becomes right, and the other wrong. For reasons still not completely understood, organic beings tend to choose the correct paths, or more precisely, the very act of choosing makes the path they have chosen the correct one.

[Renewed_Valour1]

How does one determine a Lucky pilot? Luck is an uncontrollable factor, as it stands no one slip steam jump is like another..

The expression lucky pilot or unlucky pilot refers to their inherent ablity to select the right slipstream route. Some people like Beka just have knack for slipstream piloting and can fly into the worse holes in a much shorter amount of time. To find a "lucky" pilot it would just be a question of having them make several jumps to see if they are any good at piloting.

And if you are not at the right point, a location may not be avaliable.. why else would Rommie and an unarmed convoy brave an enemy held system, if not to save 9 hours to deliver medical supplies...

Well we have to remember time was critical here because according to the episode they were dealing with thousands of people dying every hour. Now there is such a thing as a slipstream nexus according to "The Prince" these allow for faster slipstream travel if you can travel through them. Now like all convoys the fastest they can go is dependent on the slowest ship meaning the worse pilot. These were Wayist Relief Vessels and probably didn't have the greatest of pilots; there was one ship with a pilot so bad they jumped into the wrong system. Beka or a good pilot might have managed the jump directly there in a much quicker time but the rookies in the Wayists ships would have been a different matter.

[omegaLancer]

being lucky is not a constant, just ask any gambler.. It seem to be a quality that runs out, even to the most luckest of person.. maybe it just a bad spot of writing on the Staff of the andromeda show.. or it snack of Larry Niven and the attempts of the puppeteers to bred a luckier human race via Breeding lottery...

Maybe they should have stated that piloting the slip stream is an art. and from the system library an art that NO MACHINE / AI intelligents can perform, Cross over on this it has been stated not only in the Library but over and over again on the show..

As for Ion cannons, they donot as the name suggestes fire IONS... Instead they are like ECM guns or MASER.. firing a energy charge that create electrical damage to electronics

[Crossover_Maniac]

As for Ion cannons, they donot as the name suggestes fire IONS... Instead they are like ECM guns or MASER.. firing a energy charge that create electrical damage to electronics

First, turbolasers aren't lasers, now ion cannons don't really shoot charged particles. When will SW get it termology straight?

[Crossover_Maniac]

Maybe they should have stated that piloting the slip stream is an art. and from the system library an art that NO MACHINE / AI intelligents can perform, Cross over on this it has been stated not only in the Library but over and over again on the show..

Yeah, I think All Systems University used the wrong term to describe slipstream travel.

[Crossover_Maniac]

We have here two ships that work on totally different principles that gives them definite advantages and disadvantages.

Ship-to-ship weapons:

GHC: 40 EMP cannons that launch long range offensive missiles (several light-minutes) with a mass of 1 kg that travel at .9c at a rate of eight missiles per second
-smart missiles
-short range anti-proton cannon
-interceptor missilesand point defense lasers for destroying any offensive missiles threatening the ship.
-Nova Bomb

ISD: 60 light-turbolaser cannons and 6 heavy turbolaser turrents and ion cannons each with a rate of fire one shot every two seconds

Light-turbolaser yield: 7 megatons
Heavy-turbolaser yield: 200 gigatons
ion cannons: short circuit electronics

Advantage: not a clear advantage. It's pretty much a quick draw scenario: GHC has no shields and would be vaporized by one heavy turbolaser blast (although, an ISD would be vaporized by a 200 gigaton turbolaser blast without its shielding), while an ISD has low impact tolerance and would be swiss-cheezed by the offensive missiles, smart missiles, and killer drones.


Sensors:

GHC: relies on a tactical system of numerous drones to report tactical data. However, all tactical data is limited to light-speed signals

ISD: can use FTL signals to give real-time data

Advantage: ISD


Communications:

GHC: can only commicate at light-speed; experience time-delays at distances greater than a few light-seconds; interstellar communication is done by a vast courier network

ISD: can communicate to any point within a galaxy within real-time using FTL signals

Advantage: ISD

Speed:

GHC: According to All Systems University's Glossary of High Guard the maximum acceleration is between 45,000 to 170,000 g's. However, the site also states cargo ships have accelerations of 10-30 thousand g's even though the Eureka Maru was able to tow the Andromeda out of the gravity well of a blackhole even under 300,000 g's of acceleration from a blackhole. So, these values can be considered lower limits. Cruise speed: 0.3-0.5c although warships have been known to travel at 0.7c in convoys.

ISD: top sublight speed is unknown, but it's maximum known acceleration is 3000 g's (RotJ)

Advantage: GHC


Manuevability:

GHC: Capable of maneuevers comparable to Millenium Falcon

ISD: When ISD's almost collided with each other, the evasive manuevers made only allowed for a change of position by a few degrees per second.

Advantage: GHC

Stragetic weapons:

GHC: 40 Nova Bombs that cancels the gravity of a star inducing a supernova.

ISD: base-delta-zero-the complete destruction of all life on a planet through planetary bombardment until the entire crust is covered in molten slag

Advantage: GHC

FTL travel:

GHC: Slipstream drive-allows travel from one galaxy to the next within minutes to hours depending on the individual pilots and how well traveled the slipstream route is travelled

ISD: Maximum FTL acceleration through hyperspace is 50,000,000 c, allowing a travel time of 14.6 days between between the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies. Also, using hyperdrive through uncharted territory can be hazardous without proper star charts and navigation.

Advantage: GHC


Fighters: GHC: Centaur fighters have higher accelerations than the GHC which has a higher acceleration rate than TIE fighter; slipstream fighters can travel through slipstream

ISD: TIE fighters-mostly short range with no hyperdrive; lower acceleration than GHC

Advantage: GHC

Strageties for winning battles between lone ISD and GHC

ISD: position ship several light-seconds away from GHC and jam all electromagnetic signals so it's unable to use its offensive missile except within extreme close range while using FTL sensors to fire flak burst with the light-turbolasers and two of the heavy turbolasers around the perimeter of the ship to limit its manueverabilty while targeting with four of the heavy turbolasers. Occasionaly use microjumps into hyperspace to surprise the enemy.

GHC: use manueverability to avoid turbolaser fire (Crazy Ivan) and acceleration advantage to sweep within firing range of the offensive missiles (their range when being jammed) and the AP cannons aiming for the bridge tower and main reactor.

[Renewed_Valour1]

As for Ion cannons, they donot as the name suggestes fire IONS... Instead they are like ECM guns or MASER.. firing a energy charge that create electrical damage to electronics

Which would likely be rendered useless by a GHC's neutrino dampeners. The solar storm in "The Pearl's that were his Eyes" had enough oomph to slam around the Andromeda while causing damage to her electronics. Once the damper was replaced they had no problems.

However, the site also states cargo ships have accelerations of 10-30 thousand g's even though the Eureka Maru was able to tow the Andromeda out of the gravity well of a blackhole even under 300,000 g's of acceleration from a blackhole.

To be fair Beka has described the Maru as a tug at times. Myself I would define her as the equivalent of a modern day salvage tug. A very robust design with engines that are way to powerful compared to other vessels that size. The only times she's a cargo vessel is when she's hauling around her cargo pod.

GHC: use manueverability to avoid turbolaser fire (Crazy Ivan) and acceleration advantage to sweep within firing range of the offensive missiles (their range when being jammed) and the AP cannons aiming for the bridge tower and main reactor.

That could be an effective tactic. If the OM-5s or PM-6s can momentarily open up a gap in the shields then the AP cannons can have their way with the hull. Having a couple gigatons worth or even more than that of antimatter slap into their hull won't do an ISD any good.

[Crossover_Maniac]

That could be an effective tactic. If the OM-5s or PM-6s can momentarily open up a gap in the shields then the AP cannons can have their way with the hull. Having a couple gigatons worth or even more than that of antimatter slap into their hull won't do an ISD any good.

It seems that, according to the site, the fighters like the Centaur tactical fighter and the Shrike strike fighter also carries EMP launchers and a total of 6 OM-5s each. And there are 36 RF-42 Centaur tactical fighters
76 RA-26 Shrike strike fighters on board each GHC. They could carry on missile strikes against the ISD's while the GHC watches from a distance. And since they're more maneuverable than any SW fighter, they can evade turbolaser fire while lobbing KE missiles at the ship. A couple of hundred missiles at .9c swiss cheesing your ship roasting it with a wake of superheated plasma can not good for your day.

[omegaLancer]

As for Ion cannons, they donot as the name suggestes fire IONS... Instead they are like ECM guns or MASER.. firing a energy charge that create electrical damage to electronics

Which would likely be rendered useless by a GHC's neutrino dampeners. The solar storm in "The Pearl's that were his Eyes" had enough oomph to slam around the Andromeda while causing damage to her electronics. Once the damper was replaced they had no problems.

However, the site also states cargo ships have accelerations of 10-30 thousand g's even though the Eureka Maru was able to tow the Andromeda out of the gravity well of a blackhole even under 300,000 g's of acceleration from a blackhole.

To be fair Beka has described the Maru as a tug at times. Myself I would define her as the equivalent of a modern day salvage tug. A very robust design with engines that are way to powerful compared to other vessels that size. The only times she's a cargo vessel is when she's hauling around her cargo pod.

GHC: use manueverability to avoid turbolaser fire (Crazy Ivan) and acceleration advantage to sweep within firing range of the offensive missiles (their range when being jammed) and the AP cannons aiming for the bridge tower and main reactor.

That could be an effective tactic. If the OM-5s or PM-6s can momentarily open up a gap in the shields then the AP cannons can have their way with the hull. Having a couple gigatons worth or even more than that of antimatter slap into their hull won't do an ISD any good.

Problem how are Neutrino dampers ( which are particles that have mass and interact via the weak force) suppose to negate an EMP or elertomagnetic burst ( that interact via Electromagnetic force, which is many order of magnitude more powerful) ... And the problem is while you are replacing the Damper, you are now a target for further blasts from both turbo laser and Ion cannons.

As for use manueverability, The fact is that the large number of Turbolasers combine with the Flak effect would mean that any large unshield vessel or missiles would be expose to multiple explosions that measure in the 100 of Gigatons. Another factor is that the offensive missile are not homing devices, but recieve target information from the launch platform as per SCWL:

SMART MISSILES: Extended-range, high-endurance missiles that rely on a combination of ship, drone and organic active/passive sensor systems to find targets and destroy them. At kill speed, smart missiles can achieve upwards of 90 PSL. Smart missiles are most effective at less than one AU, but special variants can extend that range to 3 AU when combat operations permit missile control "handoff" from platform to platform. Smart missiles can be called back or neutralized in flight.

the fact is that after launch the Targeting vessel would not be jinxing ( wild ivan) but attempting to maintain communications with the out going missile feeding it course correction, this is usually via a laser or tight beam radio link, jinxing would make it impossible to maintain this link..

This is support be "home fires" where a fighter attack a Automated ship pretending to be a Magog swarm ship, after firing the missile the fighter maintain an intercept course and collided with the debri from the drone ship..

This would enable even the most inepted gunner and targeting computer to come up with a firing solution that would destroy hi guard ship, with a flak burst..

In order to for manueverability to be a factor the HG ship would need to be close, close enought for the turret to be unable to track.. but any great distant would allow the TL to easily track and destroy any hi speed object. At distant of engagement of the Offensive missile ( which has to be greater than 6 light seconds, as per SCWL) or over the distants of light minute that the fighter would need to cross to overcome the jamming of ISD.

an example of this is in specter of the past when a star destroyer was attempting to target a small task force with proton torpedoes but was too far away:

"We're not going to have much chance of hitting them with proton torpedoes, if that's what you're thinking," Ardiff warned. "In close, their angular speed is too high for the torpedoes to track; and at any real distance, they'll have all the time they need to track and destroy them."
Specter of the Past pg. 341

As for the AP cannon, unless you can get the shield down, the AP would have little chance of harming a star destroyer. But since we have no hard power ratting of the AP beam ( Actual a quote of the number of AP per seconds would help) I doubt that it in the range needed to pentrate a shields. also the a little factor of defending fighters...


Problem is that without shields the fighter and missiles would be destroy by any near miss by a turbo laser flak bust, that would generate blast of a multigigaton H bomb. In this case a near miss is measure in 10's of kilometer..

A few fighters would get thru, minus any missiles they may have fire and would now have to enrage tie fighters and then make the journey back to their home ship, once again running the TL bombardment

[Renewed_Valour1]

Problem how are Neutrino dampers ( which are particles that have mass and interact via the weak force) suppose to negate an EMP or elertomagnetic burst ( that interact via Electromagnetic force, which is many order of magnitude more powerful) ... And the problem is while you are replacing the Damper, you are now a target for further blasts from both turbo laser and Ion cannons.

The easy answer would be they just do. We've seen them easily handle blasts in "The Pearls that were his Eyes" that prior to the damper being repaired were overloading the systems and slamming the ship around severely. A slightly longer answer, which explains part of it was a typo, occurred and it was supposed to be a neutron damper according to the Tech Advisor for the show.

As for use manueverability, The fact is that the large number of Turbolasers combine with the Flak effect would mean that any large unshield vessel or missiles would be expose to multiple explosions that measure in the 100 of Gigatons.

You should be saying any large unshielded Star Wars vessels. At anything over 5 light seconds even flakbursts will be utterly useless do to the area of space a vessel can cover in a few seconds. We've also seen the AG fields deflect away a nova and part of the 2 million terraton explosion that hit the Andromeda. A gigaton explosion is a small fry compared to either one of those cases.

Another factor is that the offensive missile are not homing devices, but receive target information fromthe launch platform as per SCWL: SMART MISSILES: Extended-range, high-endurance missiles that rely on a combination of ship, drone and organic active/passive sensor systems to find targets and destroy them. At kill speed, smart missiles can achieve upwards of 90 PSL. Smart missiles are most effective at less than one AU, but special variants can extend that range to 3 AU when combat operations permit missile control "handoff" from platform to platform. Smart missiles can be called back or neutralized in flight.

Good try but no prize at all. Smart missiles aren't even offensive missiles! You have two main category of missiles in Andromeda the Om-5 series of offensive missiles and the larger PM-6 Smart Missiles Variants. The quote is referring to the smart missiles. If you also read the quote you'll see the missile is guided bu ship, drone, and organic based sensors. Organic based sensors means that the missiles have their own sensors.

This is support be "home fires" where a fighter attack a Automated ship pretending to be a Magog swarm ship, after firing the missile the fighter maintain an intercept course and collided with the debri from the drone ship..

That fighter was firing his AP canons rather than missiles. He fired more times than that class of fighters has missiles. An AP cannon like a turbolaser is a line of sight weapon. It was also a inexperienced pilot who could have obviously broken off because Beka said so.

"We're not going to have much chance of hitting them with proton torpedoes, if that's what you're thinking," Ardiff warned. "In close, their angular speed is too high for the torpedoes to track; and at any real distance, they'll have all the time they need to track and destroy them." Specter of the Past pg. 341

You do realize that compared to Andromeda's missiles proton torpedoes are easy kills? They happen to be larger, slower, and have a much lower acceleration than an OM-5.

But since we have no hard power ratting of the AP beam ( Actual a quote of the number of AP per seconds would help) I doubt that it in the range needed to pentrate a shields. also the a little factor of defending fighters...

Well the show's tech advisor has said that the AP guns can only manage to fire a steady stream of AP for a short time before they deplete their supply. The Maru carries enough AP to destroy a small planet according to Hunt in "Bell of the Beast". The Maru is just a small tug/freighter the Andromeda is a heavy cruiser with many times more mass to propel.

You do also realize that an engagement between the XMC and her fighters against the ISDs fighters would be very short and go very badly for the ISD. There's no area where Star Wars fighters have a clear advantage over the Shrike or the Centaur.

[omegaLancer]

First AG field cannot deflect pure electromagnetic radiation, It cannot even deflect AP , as seen in "dance of the may flies" when a than Fighter fired such a beam into the Andromeda and literally cripple her..

Unlike Point defense laser that must score a direct hit. Turbo laser can be set to explode, in this case the fighter would be making a run of at least a light minute ( but would have been track at up to 3 light hours out,) allowing the Gunnery computer to compute and set up a pattern of Flak...

The Flak burst would be fired in a pattern bracking the Fighter or ahead of it and the energy of the beam and the burst travel at the speed of light. And the fighter attack run would require traveling at beginning of the TL range of about a light minute and surviving an attack of hundreds of batteries every 2 seconds...HG Point defense laser output about 20-50mw, if this is enought to destroy a fighter or a missile, how can it survive near hits of 20 to 2000 GT

the larger guns of Star destroyer can put out energy in the terranton range ( 200 gigaton are just the medium/ Quad guns, the Hvy Turbo laser would be at least 10X this figure)

Thge andromeda may have survive one terraton blast, can she survive two blast, but a ISD1 has 17 such cannons, 8 quad cannons of 200GT and 100's of Point defense TL ( around 2-20 gigatons ) and this would be occuring every 2 seconds.....

An isd2 have 64 heavy cannons....Can she survive being pound by 64 2 terraton explosion at a rate of 64 explosion every 2 seconds.....Doubt it... And no missile or fighter could....

The only home is for the fighter to get as close to the destroyer as possible, but then her offensive missiles are useless as must be fire at a distant of at least 6 light seconds..And her AP cannons would not even pentrate the shields...

[Renewed_Valour1]

First AG field cannot deflect pure electromagnetic radiation, It cannot even deflect AP , as seen in "dance of the may flies" when a than Fighter fired such a beam into the Andromeda and literally cripple her...

No but the Neutrino Damper would easily take care of it.

Unlike Point defense laser that must score a direct hit. Turbo laser can be set to explode, in this case the fighter would be making a run of at least a light minute ( but would have been track at up to 3 light hours out,) allowing the Gunnery computer to compute and set up a pattern of Flak...

Simple physics are against you here. At ranges beyond five light seconds against a target as maneuverable as a GHC a light speed nonguided weapon is near useless. Do I really need to get into the math again?

The andromeda may have survive one terraton blast, can she survive two blast, but a ISD1 has 17 such cannons, 8 quad cannons of 200GT and 100's of Point defense TL ( around 2-20 gigatons ) and this would be occuring every 2 seconds.....

Good but you keep on forgetting that beyond a few light seconds the turbolasers will be useless for hitting a target as fast as the Andromeda. If they are infinitely lucky they might get one shot close but the AG fields will easily deflect it away.

The only home is for the fighter to get as close to the destroyer as possible, but then her offensive missiles are useless as must be fire at a distant of at least 6 light seconds..And her AP cannons would not even pentrate the shields...

What would you happen to be smoking?

The offensive missiles have no minimum range requirements. We've seen them used at extremely short ranges in several episodes. Beka threatened to fire upon a planet with them while they were in orbit. Last time I checked that's a lost less than 6 light seconds. They are accelerated out of the ELS tubes at close to their maximum velocity.

Before you even attempt to bring up "The Sum of It's Parts" Hunt ordered a barrage of defensive missile fire to cover their retreat not to attempt to damage the ship firing at them. Defensive missiles are strictly speaking short ranged missiles that travel slower but are much more maneuverable than OM-5s. That makes them much harder to pick off that offensive missiles and the perfect thing to throw out when running. Of course Star Wars hasn't even demonstrated the ablity to hit a fist size target moving evasively at 90 PSL so no real reason to use defensive missiles.

[omegaLancer]

I must ask, what are you smoking????

Neutrino damper again... First What ever these neutrino damper are I doubt that they can handle energy in the Petrajoule range, even if it a Nuerton damper, neutron are electrically neutral ( they have a small magnetic momentum due the fact that they are made of quarks that do have charges).. The fact that a Andromeda face a solar storm, which is compose of charge particles is nothing in comparison to Turbo laser or ion cannon.

First the earth magnetic fields protects us from such event, the earth magnetic field would not protect us from a Tubrolaser, it cannot protect us from a EMP burst of a Atomic Bomb...

Second Both weapons fire electro magnetic energy that is coherent and concertated, a solar storm is emits particles like proton and electron that cannot achieve such a state ( Photon are Boson) it like comparing a laser to a torch, so these So call Damper would be ineffective vs either weapons...

Fact is defensive missile are slower (75 psl) and and pack less of of a payload.. and are used at distant less than 6 light seconds.. and would Payload in the kiloton not megaton...

As per SCWL -DEFENSIVE MISSILE: The main defensive weapon against incoming offensive missiles in ship to ship combat. Defensive missiles can also be used as enemy fighters, which are smaller missiles (about 1/3 of a kilogram). They move slower than offensive missiles (60 to 70 PSL), but with twice the acceleration. They have a range of only 5 to 10 light seconds.


Originally the SWCL entry for Offensive weapon stated that Offensive weapon could not be used at range less than 6 light second, but they change it when they upgrade (?)/ revised it.

As for Non guided weapon being useless.. Flak original was develop to hit fast moving air craft, you donot target the air craft but the area it is in. The fact is that any ship travel toward a target, no matter how fast it going would have a vector or path that take it toward the target. even if it jinxing there is a maxium to value that can differ from that vector and maintain that path.. you can set up a barrage in the area that it should appear in, also targeting the possible location within the box produce by such a vector.. With Gigaton, and teraton explosion you have a greater lee way on how far off you are going...Plus the more cannons firing the bigger the box can be..

this is not any different than fire volley by battleships, you donot aim at the target but at the location the ship should be, with a large number of guns, hoping one should hit.. in this case a near miss is just as good. Or like an artillery barrage, you hit an area and let the explosion kill the target..
Combine with the fact that a star destroy can track target in real time ( due to it FTL sensor) means that a ISD get a true indication of current position.. And it FTL sensor are uneffected BY HG jammers, that only cover the Normal EM range, ISD would be able to fire constantily as HG ship reaches the range. Starting at 1 lmin and at that point it will nlease a such a barrage every 2 seconds....

[Renewed_Valour1]

Fact is defensive missile are slower (75 psl) and and pack less of of a payload.. and are used at distant less than 6 light seconds.. and would Payload in the kiloton not megaton...

Well one of your problems becomes evident… Check your math. I get a yield of 1.8 megatons plus change for a 70 PSL projectile that masses 1/3 of a kg. This is KE alone and doesn't figure in the left over AP onboard the missile.

Originally the SWCL entry for Offensive weapon stated that Offensive weapon could not be used at range less than 6 light second, but they change it when they upgrade (?)/ revised it.

I'd like to see some proof of that. I've been reading All Systems since the show first came on and I don't recall any such entry. I think you happen to be thinking of the range limitations of the energy weapons.

As for Non guided weapon being useless.. Flak original was develop to hit fast moving air craft, you donot target the air craft but the area it is in.

I realize that but you obviously don't realize something. If an aircraft flies high enough anti-aircraft guns are useless due to the range. The plane isn't where you were shooting at when the shell arrives and a few evasive actions makes it impossible to get the shell close enough. I can't remember the exact height this happens at but it's a proven fact if you fly high enough you are fairly safe from AAA fire. That's why we use missiles and for that matter the High Guard uses missiles. Probability bites you in the butt when you try to hit a fast target at long ranges with an unguided weapon.

The fact is that any ship travel toward a target, no matter how fast it going would have a vector or path that take it toward the target. even if it jinxing there is a maxium to value that can differ from that vector and maintain that path.. you can set up a barrage in the area that it should appear in, also targeting the possible location within the box produce by such a vector.. With Gigaton, and teraton explosion you have a greater lee way on how far off you are going...Plus the more cannons firing the bigger the box can be..

Ok I guess I have to go through the entire charade again and then afterwards have to still listen to you ignore simple math and probability. How big across is a flak burst for each size turbolaser? How many turbolasers on the ISD? And how often can they refire? FTL sensors just make the problem a little less complicated but beyond 4 light seconds you don't have a chance even with them.

[omegaLancer]

First there are over a 100 turbolaser and Ion cannon each with a fire rate of 1 shot per 2 second..

Second The moment of any ship can be broken down to statitically, and you can determine by Acceleration, course where a ship is most likily be..

Third the Flak burst is an expanding shere of electromagnetic energy, the effect range would be determine by the Yield of the Burst...

100- 20gt, 8- 200gt and 17- 2000gt blast. Ion cannon cannot flak fire and this is for a ISD ..

And it not True Flak so altitude is not a problem. Range would be. The limit should be 1 light min...And you are not firing at the target but the area your targeting computer said it will be... This is called leading the target, and modern fighter jet do this with their cannons, via the Hub display...
This was also the done by old time battleship via their mechanical firing computer, and the it was not expected that any single gun would hit a fast moving target, but after a boardside a hit would be score, the more broadside the more hit, until the opponent ship was cripple and then destroy. and Battleship were able to hit even destroyers via this method..

1 megaton is a joke to a ship that can take Teraton boardside... even the 20 mt offensive missile is a joke unless you can hit 10000's of them a second..

[TrekkieJeff2000]

Has there ever been a fan fic written with all three Star Wars Star Trek and Andromeda. I think it would be very good and interesting to see how all three could mix.

[HemlockGrey]

The nice happy federation would ally with the Systems Commonwealth to beat off the Empire. Chaos would result. Things would blow up.

BTW, you guys know that that one episode(forgot the name) where Hunt goes to the forest-world? The Kalderans are occupying it, and fighting a group of protectors named the Warders? And there's a wounded Vedran? That one? Right.

Anyway, I think Rommie or Dylan made a comment about the Vedran tesserecting technology vastly improving. Furthermore, doesn't it seem odd that, if at the time of the Fall, tesserecting was as viable a method as described, why would everyone be scratching their heads as to over why Tarn Vedra vanished?

So, if the cradle of tesserecting technology was Tarn Vedra, couldn't the Empire open up with a salvo of Galaxy Gun missles, aimed at critical worlds, such as Tarn Vedra? Having the birthplace of the Commonwealth destroyed cannot be good for morale.

The points might have been brought up already. Feel free to correct me if they have been.

[septesix]

So, if the cradle of tesserecting technology was Tarn Vedra, couldn't the Empire open up with a salvo of Galaxy Gun missles, aimed at critical worlds, such as Tarn Vedra? Having the birthplace of the Commonwealth destroyed cannot be good for morale.

Well, how far can the galaxy gun go? I haven't read the first post of the debate, but Tarn Vedra might well be located OUTSIDE the galaxy that Galaxy Gun was in. Can GG shot outside it's own galaxies? Guess not.

[HemlockGrey]

It could be constructed in an outpost in whatever galaxy Tarn Vedra's in and fired from there.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Anyway, I think Rommie or Dylan made a comment about the Vedran tesserecting technology vastly improving. Furthermore, doesn't it seem odd that, if at the time of the Fall, tesserecting was as viable a method as described, why would everyone be scratching their heads as to over why Tarn Vedra vanished?

So, if the cradle of tesserecting technology was Tarn Vedra, couldn't the Empire open up with a salvo of Galaxy Gun missles, aimed at critical worlds, such as Tarn Vedra? Having the birthplace of the Commonwealth destroyed cannot be good for morale.

I'm assuming the fight is set just before the fall of the Systems Commonwealth. At the time of the Fall, Tarn Vedra was tesserected. So, they do have the technology to tesserect systems. So, no hitting Tarn Vedra with a galaxy gun.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Anyway, I think Rommie or Dylan made a comment about the Vedran tesserecting technology vastly improving. Furthermore, doesn't it seem odd that, if at the time of the Fall, tesserecting was as viable a method as described, why would everyone be scratching their heads as to over why Tarn Vedra vanished?

The Vedrans kept the technology a secret from everyone and most likely had it classified so only the highest levels knew about it. Hunt and Rommie had no knowledge of the MWS; so no reason to assume they would know about tesseracting.

So, if the cradle of tesserecting technology was Tarn Vedra, couldn't the Empire open up with a salvo of Galaxy Gun missles, aimed at critical worlds, such as Tarn Vedra? Having the birthplace of the Commonwealth destroyed cannot be good for morale.

It wouldn't be good for the Empire either when the Commonwealth retaliates by hitting every major system in the Empire with nova bombs. Any real combat between the Empire and the Commonwealth goes badly for both when they start using strategic weapons.