Japanese Godzilla v.s. American Godzilla

[Shadow WarChief]

Now then, before I have 50 people coming in here screaming "THE AMERICAN GODZILLA WAS KILLED BY 12 MISSLES", I'd like to clarify that for the purposes of the debate, we are going by the cartoon version of the American Godzilla and the First (showa) version of the Japanese Godzilla.


For those of you who never watched the american Godzilla cartoon, the main differences are as follows

He has Atomic breath
He has regeneration

and of course, the main difference from his movie counterpart:

He's not a pussy


So who do you think wins the fight and why?

[Vejut]

Japanese Godzilla, because the original usually defeats the copy, and he survives nuclear detonations, giant monsters, and even the high tech version of the JSDF without much problem, only dying when he suffered the worlds worst case of heartburn, and suffering very few KO's and defeats (he ain't called king of the monsters for nothing), and can call on at least two other giant monster allies. Whereas the american one was killed by a few missles in the movie, couldn't even destroy the brooklyn bridge, much less all of manhattan--can't tell about the cartoon, only seen a little, and very little on the American godzilla in combat.

[HemlockGrey]

THE AMERICAN GODZILLA WAS KILLED BY 12 MISSLES",

'

To be fair, the missles were nukes.

Actually, I have no idea whether they were or were not nukes. I've never seen the movie.

So?!?!? So? Does it matter?Why do YOU CARE? HUH?

STOP PRESSURING ME! JUST GO AWAY!

[Shadow WarChief]

Japanese Godzilla, because he survives nuclear detonations,

Yet he the most damage ever done to him was with a giant chain saw. A big gashed was opened up in him, whereas we see the cartoon American godzilla taking hundreds of tons of energy in the Monster War episodes.

In fact, he quite literally shrugged off the last 4 shot at him.

giant monsters,

And the cartoon american Godzill hasn't in all the 40 episodes?

and even the high tech version of the JSDF without much problem, only dying when he suffered the worlds worst case of heartburn,

Red herring. That's the Heisei Godzilla.

and suffering very few KO's and defeats (he ain't called king of the monsters for nothing),

Title is irrelevant. Will the king of medieval england automatically beat an elephant in single combat because "he ain't called the king of england for nothing"


Title is also irrelevant for another reason, he's only king of the monsters in the american version. In Japan, he's just Godzilla.

and can call on at least two other giant monster allies.

irrelevant. He doesn't have access to these allies.

Whereas the american one was killed by a few missles in the movie, couldn't even destroy the brooklyn bridge, much less all of manhattan--

can't tell about the cartoon, only seen a little, and very little on the American godzilla in combat.

Well then why did you post?

[Kuja]

I think the original would win, because he seems to have more upper body strength. (check out those pecs )

[Sea Skimmer]

THE AMERICAN GODZILLA WAS KILLED BY 12 MISSLES",

'

To be fair, the missles were nukes.

Actually, I have no idea whether they were or were not nukes. I've never seen the movie.

So?!?!? So? Does it matter?Why do YOU CARE? HUH?

STOP PRESSURING ME! JUST GO AWAY!

Sidewinder IIRC, meaning that 240-300 pounds of HE killed him depending on if they where L's or M's.

[phongn]

THE AMERICAN GODZILLA WAS KILLED BY 12 MISSLES",

'

To be fair, the missles were nukes.

Actually, I have no idea whether they were or were not nukes. I've never seen the movie.

So?!?!? So? Does it matter?Why do YOU CARE? HUH?

STOP PRESSURING ME! JUST GO AWAY!

Sidewinder IIRC, meaning that 240-300 pounds of HE killed him depending on if they where L's or M's.

240-300lb? Most impressive since the entire thing only weights 190 lb :p

It looked like they were using Harpoons or SLAMs against it.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

'

To be fair, the missles were nukes.

Actually, I have no idea whether they were or were not nukes. I've never seen the movie.

So?!?!? So? Does it matter?Why do YOU CARE? HUH?

STOP PRESSURING ME! JUST GO AWAY!

Sidewinder IIRC, meaning that 240-300 pounds of HE killed him depending on if they where L's or M's.

240-300lb? Most impressive since the entire thing only weights 190 lb :p

It looked like they were using Harpoons or SLAMs against it.

I remember seeing Harpoon missles somewhere in the cockpit.

[Shadow WarChief]

Well here are my reasons as to why I think that the cartoon american Godzilla would win this fight.

his atomic breath is stronger[/i]

*Just so you know, cuz I wrote these calcs for those who have not a damn clue how to calculate anything, so just brush over my explanations of specific heat etc etc.


Amreican Godzilla's breath has a thermal output of 11.5 tons, while having a kinetic energy ouput of 3 tons for a grand total of 14.5 tons



Now Showa Godzilla's breath, on the other hand, only has a thermal output of 3tons and NO kinetic energy output (If he did, then we'd have seen some example of this in the 15 films he's in).

Point: Cartoon American Godzilla

durability

Cartoon American Godzilla has a low end thermal resistance of 250 tons

Also, in the second episode of the pilot episodes, we see him survive a fall from 180 meters in the span of 3 seconds and received moderate damage. meaning he survived 7.7 tons.

Now while Showa Godzilla too is very durable, I havne't done any calcs. But he simply lacks the firepowerto injure cartoon american Godzilla

Therefore, he loses.

[Slartibartfast]

Now then, before I have 50 people coming in here screaming "THE AMERICAN GODZILLA WAS KILLED BY 12 MISSLES", I'd like to clarify that for the purposes of the debate, we are going by the cartoon version of the American Godzilla and the First (showa) version of the Japanese Godzilla.

You mean the old cartoon by Hannah-Barbera, where they are in this boat like the family Robinson, and have this mini-godzilla with wings and tell him to call Godzilla everytime they have a problem?

[Slartibartfast]

Title is also irrelevant for another reason, he's only king of the monsters in the american version. In Japan, he's just Godzilla.

Gojira.

[Shadow WarChief]

You mean the old cartoon by Hannah-Barbera, where they are in this boat like the family Robinson, and have this mini-godzilla with wings and tell him to call Godzilla everytime they have a problem?

No. That's the Hanna Barbara version of the japanese Godzilla. I'm talking about the Cartoon version of the american Godzilla

Gojira.

Same difference

[Anarchist Bunny]

Man that show was cool. So ofcourse FOX had to cansel it for crap. I mean thats how FOX works.

[Slartibartfast]

You mean the old cartoon by Hannah-Barbera, where they are in this boat like the family Robinson, and have this mini-godzilla with wings and tell him to call Godzilla everytime they have a problem?

No. That's the Hanna Barbara version of the japanese Godzilla. I'm talking about the Cartoon version of the american Godzilla

The American Godzilla is an american version of the Japanese Gojira.
The Hannah-Barbera Godzilla is an american version of the Japanese Gojira.

Why not simple say "no, i mean the one from the last movie." they're BOTH American Godzillas.

Gojira.

Same difference

Even in the movie there's somebody who gets annoyed by the other name

[Majin Gojira]

hmmm....

Seems to be set up in a manner that favors the American Monster (Hell, it's the only way to have it anywhere be close to equal...any other form of Godzilla would haul the imposter's ass)

However, it is not as cut and dried as others maintain.

True, the Imposter's Breath Weapon is more powerful.

However, the Showa Godzilla is much more Durable/has greater regenerative speed - did you see the ammount of Damage Mechagodzilla 1 did to the showa Godzilla in their second fight!

However, I await someone to do the calcs - I'm to lazy too right now/don't know the proper physics to calculate it.

Their is one thing I can comment on, combat styles.

The Imposter's (58m tall) style is that of a savage animal. complete with clawing, mauling and charging techniques. he only uses his breath weapon as a 'finisher' of sorts - due to its power, it usually is.

the Showa Godzilla's (50m tall) style is much more calculated and consise. using many throws, slams, punches, head-butts, drop kicks and even PLANNING to defeat an enemy. Plus, like the Heisie Gamera, the Showa Godzilla has, on two seperate occasions, pulled a power out of his ass to aid in his victory (IE: turning himself into a giant electro-magnent in Gvs.MG and flying on a jet of his breath weapon in G.vs. Hedorah). Showa Godzilla also has a stamina advantage, rarely does Godzilla tire out - and when he does, he tends to come back stronger than ever after a few minutes.

It would be a close battle, but the Imposter would be Driven off by Showa Godzilla - because Showa Godzilla does not kill his enemies.

Of course - if it was any other form of Godzilla...

Heisie (80m/100m) = total annaialation of Imposter
2000/Millenium = Total Destruction of Imposter
GMK = Total Vaporization of Imposter

How about if the Imposter fought other showa monsters...

Vs. Anguirus = Imposter wins
Vs. Baragon = Imposter Wins
vs. Ebirah = Imposter Wins
vs. Gabara = Unknown
vs. Gigan = Gigan Wins
vs. Gorosaurus = Imposter Wins
vs. Hedorah = Hedorah wins (Rather easily too)
vs. Jet Jaguar = Jet Jaguar wins (!!!)
vs. Kamacuras = Imposter wins
vs. King Ceasar = Ceasar wins (Reflects heat ray back at the Imposter)
vs. King Kong = King Kong
vs. King Ghidorah = King Ghidorah ( NO SINGLE SHOWA MONSTER CAN DEFEAT KG IN HIS PRIME)
vs. Kumonga = iffy, Kumonga could win, but so could the Imposter
vs. Manda = unknown
vs. Mechagodzilla = Mechagodzilla, more firepower than anything before brought against him, the MG barage of missles (from Feet, Knees, Fingers, Throat and mouth), Close Attack Beam, Flamethrowers and 'Space Beam' would ravage the imposter, Godzilla waded through it (painfully I might addd)
vs. Megalon = Megalon wins
vs. Mothra = Mothra wins...She always wins - which is why it was such a treat to see her die in GMK!
vs. Rodan = unknown
vs. Titanosaurus = the Imposter
vs. Varan = the Imposter

Showa Godzilla defeated all of these monsters (usually in solo combat) - he even defeated Mothra once (OK, Mothra was kind of old at the time), Mechagodzilla and Gigan clinch it though.

[Tsyroc]

Man that show was cool. So ofcourse FOX had to cansel it for crap. I mean thats how FOX works.

At the time it wasn't Pokemon, Diginmon or Power Rangers so of course it was going to be cancelled.

Another toon that Fox didn't give much of chance was Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot. Fox eventually ran it during the week so I got to see a few episodes. Funny and cool.

Back on the Animated Godzilla track. Two video tapes were released of the show that I know of. The first couple of episodes (so-so) and then the "Monster War" (Destroy All Monsters) arc, which was really cool.

[Andrew J.]

Basically, the original would just no-sell whatever Amerigoji had to throw at him until powerful close range attacks wore the cartoon character down.

Oh, and one more thing:

hmmm....
It would be a close battle, but the Imposter would be driven off by Showa Godzilla - because Showa Godzilla does not kill his enemies.

I'm fairly sure he fried Ebirah pretty damn good, and I seem to recall that it was Godzilla that actually finished off Titanosarus (ie, throwing him off that cliff).

[Shadow WarChief]

True, the Imposter's Breath Weapon is more powerful.

Wow. You're the first Godzilla fan besides myself who acknowledges the value of calcs in a debate. Thank you.

However, the Showa Godzilla is much more Durable/has greater regenerative speed

Maybe. He definately has extremely fast regenerative capabilities, but whether or not they're more/less than or equal to is a whole 'nother question.

We know from Mothra v.s. Godzilla that he can take tank blasts and patriot missles without much problem.

In Godzilla v.s. Gigan, we see him take 3 seconds of sustained fire from 2 of Ghidorah's gravity beams, each of which measure in t 4.3 tons, giving Showa Godzilla a low end energy absorbtion capability of 25.7 tons.

However, Showa Goji seemed to take these blasts without much trouble. So his low end is probably much higher than the above figure. It probably fits in pretty closely with cartoon American Godzilla's figure, but until I can get a hold on some other Showa flicks, I'm working by memory.

I'll try to rent Ghidrah the three headed monster and find some calcs to do off of that.

did you see the ammount of Damage Mechagodzilla 1 did to the showa Godzilla in their second fight!

yup. Pretty damn impressive.

However, I await someone to do the calcs - I'm to lazy too right now/don't know the proper physics to calculate it.[/quote]

Well I taped the movie when they were playing them on the sci fi channel, I could probably take a crack at it.

Their is one thing I can comment on, combat styles.

The Imposter's (58m tall) style is that of a savage animal. complete with clawing, mauling and charging techniques. he only uses his breath weapon as a 'finisher' of sorts - due to its power, it usually is.

True, he does tend to use his breath as a finisher. But he does use it in the fight quite often. The difference is that his fights don't last long enough for him to use it 50 times. He always incinerates or dismembers his opponent in under 10 minutes

the Showa Godzilla's (50m tall) style is much more calculated and consise. using many throws, slams, punches, head-butts, drop kicks and even PLANNING to defeat an enemy.

Planning? His fights don't show a high degree of planning on his part until the end.

Cartoon American Godzilla though. has consitantly used tactics in his fights.

v.s. Crustaceous rex: lured him to the top of the cliff, and then de-stabilized it, causing C-rex to fall to his doom.

v.s. El Gusano: Used a cone like rock in the middle of the beach as a boundry between himself and the giant worm, giving his free reign to blast away at with his atomic breath

v.s. Cyber Godzilla: Dug a hole in the ground and hid inside it. CyberGodzilla went over to investigate, and Godzilla fires an atomic breath knocking Cyber Godzilla high in the air. Then jumping out of the whole, he walks over and fires an atomic breath at C-G's head for 9 seconds continuously.

v.s. Robo Yeti: Kicked RY away and burrowed into the ground. When Robo Yeti turned around to take care of the meddling humans, he unburrows runs up behind RY and tosses him over the cliff face.

need I go on?

Showa Godzilla also has a stamina advantage, rarely does Godzilla tire out - and when he does, he tends to come back stronger than ever after a few minutes.

Nor does the cartoon american Godzilla stand out. In fact, he would rather die fighting than let the planet go down the shitter without him having the last word. And he did die fighting, in future shock against a swarm of invincible DRAGMAS.

He most certainly has stamina

Heisie (80m/100m) = total annaialation of Imposter
2000/Millenium = Total Destruction of Imposter
GMK = Total Vaporization of Imposter

agreed

vs. Gigan = Gigan Wins

Un true, Gigan was injured by Showa Goji's piddly 3 ton breath. The cartoon american godzilla's breath would cook him.

vs. Hedorah = Hedorah wins (Rather easily too)

Well of course Hedorah wins. Hedorah also beat Showa Godzilla too.

vs. Jet Jaguar = Jet Jaguar wins (!!!)

how so? It's been a while since I've rented that movie so could you refresh my memory?

vs. King Ceasar = Ceasar wins (Reflects heat ray back at the Imposter)

Caesar only reflects energy beams. American Godzilla's breath is radiactive fire. And even if KC does manage to reflect the beam, Godzilla's radioactive fire breath is much wider than KC's eye. KC will only be able to reflect away a small portion of the blast. The rest will hit him dead in the face

vs. King Kong = King Kong

Well the cartoon american godzilla didn't have too much of a problem with Robo Yeti, who also uses electricity like KK.

vs. Kumonga = iffy, Kumonga could win, but so could the Imposter

the american godzilla would win. he defeated his giant spider no problem, and his giant spider had the advantage of being immune to his radioactie breath

[ArmorPierce]

oh you mean that godzilla.. I thouight that you were talking about the one one with the little godzilla... the American one wins no doubt about it he is much more maneuverable on top of other advantages that gibes him the edge.

[Sea Skimmer]

'

To be fair, the missles were nukes.

Actually, I have no idea whether they were or were not nukes. I've never seen the movie.

So?!?!? So? Does it matter?Why do YOU CARE? HUH?

STOP PRESSURING ME! JUST GO AWAY!

Sidewinder IIRC, meaning that 240-300 pounds of HE killed him depending on if they where L's or M's.

240-300lb? Most impressive since the entire thing only weights 190 lb :p

It looked like they were using Harpoons or SLAMs against it.

Math is your friend, 20x12=240 25x12=300

What they fired against the stadium mighth ave been somthing heavier, but the ones they used to kill GODZILLA its self looked a lot like Winders to me.