Dragons vs...

Deimos Anomaly · Post by **Deimos Anomaly** » 2002-10-01 04:33pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Hmmm what about using those nasty claws to rip the pilot from the airplane

That would be dumb at best, impossible at worst. The plane is faster than the dragon, so the dragon could not sneak up on it or come at it from the side. The only way to get close to contact range is to fly up in front of it and wait. Of course that means the Avenger is pointing right at it, so...

Even if somehow it works (maybe the avenger was out of ammo), it's still stupid, since trying to reach into the cockpit and grab the pilot while the plane passes at 300+ mph is only going to get the dragon its claws ripped off.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-10-01 04:39pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
IG-88E wrote:could sidwinders even track dragons?
L or better could track via surface heating.

Ah, forgot about that. Good point.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2002-10-02 12:05am

-Does D&D invisibility work against high-tech imaging systems? Nobody knows.
-Is a dragon skin strong enough to resist bulelts? Can't tell.
-Can you HOLD an airplane? Does HOLD actually make everything in it NOT HELD? (can I hold your internal organs but not your skin? does HOLD work on non-living things?)
-Can you cast CHARM against somebody in a airtight, fully sealed environment? How can we know, if there aren't such things in a D&D setting.
-Does a dragon outmaneouver a slow plane or vice-versa? Can a dragon do 500 km/h or only about 100 or 60? Will a dragon even have time to cast a spell on an enemy that is withing range for a second or two at a time?

Unless you make the comparison using one of those mixed-genre RPGs like Rifts (*cough* *cough* *puke*) there's really no basis for comparison.

When it is true that Hit points is a bit off joke there is way to do some comparasion yes...

- Actually, I am pretty sure the invisibility only affect vision and all other way to detect a objetc other than vision could work there. But then there is higher illusions that affect all the senses. The trick is not to try to lure the technology, but the humans, who are affected by it and you can make then see or hear anything in that radar.
- Off course you can tell. Older dragons can resist to hits by swords, arrows and balistic enginiers. The leather of a dragon is stronger than steel if you make a armor with that. Someone just can compare by this. Its pretty clear the the skin of a dragon is much harder than humans for example. Or even a full plate armor.
- I dunno how you hold a plane. I never heard a Power Word Hold spell and all of those spells affect only living beings that can hear it. The Holdings spells also only affect a living target, just one. They could tell from where they got this spell. I am curious.
- You can cast charm to anything that actually see you(Some more especific ask for them to hear you also). You do not need to see the wearer and in D&D we had tons of places and fortress in this sittuation. Wiht Psionic you just need to use a power to detect the living beings there to control it.
- No dragon is faster than a plane. If he had to fly away, the plane would catch him. But dragons can cast spells when flying without any problem and some spells are just a command word. So, he could teleport away before being hit.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-02 12:15am

The cool hing is a dragon can take character classes just like a human or elf. infact most dragons(at least in my campaigns) do take levels a s wizards or sorcerers. they get the spellcasting capability of the class in addition to thier effective caster level in these instances they can probably cast epic level spells or metamagic to >9th level equivilancies.

Feats for any dragon worth his salt
quicken spell-like ability

silent/quicken/still spell

multispellx4

improved spell capacityx9

Innate spell:timestop

innate spell:dimansion door

With this he can use dimension door at will 5 times per round or even timestop at will 5 times per round. He is about to be hit... oh look he isnt there. He needs to cast a spell.. oh look the plane has 6 castings of disintegrate targeted at it.

Or timestop: wall of force

Just like a bird hiting a windshield only at mach 2

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2002-10-02 01:55am

Deimos Anomaly wrote:
Typhonis 1 wrote:Hmmm what about using those nasty claws to rip the pilot from the airplane
Even if somehow it works (maybe the avenger was out of ammo), it's still stupid, since trying to reach into the cockpit and grab the pilot while the plane passes at 300+ mph is only going to get the dragon its claws ripped off.

The are some spells that allow the dragon to move 100 miles
in 1 minute. 100 miles per minute = 6000 mph. This should be
fast enough for nearly any airplane.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-03 09:50am

Or he could simply dimenion door onto the plane and rip the pilot outr. It would be much simpler that way.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-03 10:54am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Or he could simply dimenion door onto the plane and rip the pilot outr. It would be much simpler that way.

That cockpit is really going to get cramped

Deimos Anomaly · Post by **Deimos Anomaly** » 2002-10-04 03:33pm

Ack, to hell with it. The 'Hawg would turn them ALL into mulch.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-04 06:49pm

No... the dragon dimension doors on top of the plane and kills the pilot

Deimos Anomaly · Post by **Deimos Anomaly** » 2002-10-04 07:27pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:No... the dragon dimension doors on top of the plane and kills the pilot

And GETS ITS FUCKING FEET SHEARED OFF just like I said before! The pilot of course surviving though he may get hit by some flying glass.

Use a bit of common sense.

Of course it would be dead before that anyway after being chewed up from over a mile away by the cannon, but that's by the by.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2002-10-05 02:12am

There are also spells that would allow the dragon to disintegrate the plane. I also depends on the species of dragon. a prismatic dragon would be able to destroy such a plane in a few seconds. a white on the other hand...

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-05 03:57am

The Faerie Dragon confuses the A-10 pilots and them messes with their heads enough that they shoot one another down. It then destroys the last Hog in a single HtH round.

It then comes round to Louis and Mikhel's (mine and a friends Amber characters place) and gets back on the hallucinogens.

Lt. Nebfer · Post by **Lt. Nebfer** » 2002-10-05 11:04am

i think the A-10 wins(unless it was 15vs1(or 15vs3)) and it has 1000 rounds not 940

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-10-06 06:57pm

Slartibartfast wrote:The only way to accurately know whether an obscure and vague magickal-being would beat a technological, scientifically-measurable in every aspect would be to put them against each other. Since "hit points" isn't even an accurate measure of endurance (or a measure of _anything_, anyway), there's no way to figure it out with numbers alone.

Hitpoints _are_ fairly accurate for large beings.

-Does D&D invisibility work against high-tech imaging systems? Nobody knows.

That depends on what the description of the spell indicates. It wil definetly work against the pilots.

-Is a dragon skin strong enough to resist bulelts? Can't tell.

Can tell easily. Bullets are not magical,. thus they need to do more than the damage resistance to damage the dragon. The tissue damage from a single rifle bullet is very roughly equal to that of a heavy crosbow. The damage resistance will act as fairly tough armour.

-Can you HOLD an airplane? Does HOLD actually make everything in it NOT HELD? (can I hold your internal organs but not your skin? does HOLD work on non-living things?)

That depends on the hold spell. Hold person would lock the victim's limbs in place for a few minutes ensuring a quick death through loss of control

-Can you cast CHARM against somebody in a airtight, fully sealed environment? How can we know, if there aren't such things in a D&D setting.

Magic pretty much ignores anything but a visual barrier. I'm pretty sure that being inside the submarine item (from the DM's guide) doesn't give magical immunity.

-Does a dragon outmaneouver a slow plane or vice-versa? Can a dragon do 500 km/h or only about 100 or 60? Will a dragon even have time to cast a spell on an enemy that is withing range for a second or two at a time?

The dragon outmaneuvers, but doesn't outspeed the plane.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2002-10-07 12:21pm

Deimos Anomaly wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:No... the dragon dimension doors on top of the plane and kills the pilot

Of course it would be dead before that anyway after being chewed up from over a mile away by the cannon, but that's by the by.

Earth Forces are unable to hurt a phased dragon. Kinetic Control +
Energy Absorbtion also take care of any attack the A-10 is able to
launch at the dragon. Spell/Psipowers will give the dragon alot of
options to deal with the A10. e.g. sending it into the battle of hoth.

Tod zu den SD.net Idioten · Post by **Tod zu den SD.net Idioten** » 2002-10-08 12:47pm

Thunderfire wrote:Spell/Psipowers will give the dragon alot of
options to deal with the A10. e.g. sending it into the battle of hoth.

Why would it want to do that? What did those poor AT-ATs ever do to the dragon?

Antediluvian · Post by **Antediluvian** » 2002-10-08 02:07pm

If these were Rifts dragons, the A-10 would be dead liketedy-split.

They fight more powerful weapons and vehicles than the Warthog on Rifts Earth all the time.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2002-10-08 02:30pm

Antediluvian wrote:If these were Rifts dragons, the A-10 would be dead liketedy-split.

They fight more powerful weapons and vehicles than the Warthog on Rifts Earth all the time.

Pretty much overkill. People here are mainly thinking dragons from Reign of Fire or something, not ones that shrug off nukes or can teleport instantly or even outsmart any human.