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Mr Bean wrote:Yes the Hinderance for the CW

The Empire can rip through fleets of thier ships just as fast as the CW can rip through thier worlds with Nova bombs

And intresting situation

The Empire and CW fair equaly well aginst B5 and Federation
The Empire because its weapons are 500 Times more than Nessary and can each ISD can take a pounding from over a hundred ST or B5 ships and still win easily

The CW because ITS weapons are exactly the size nessary to kill those 100 ships
Though they can't soak anything vaugly close to what an ISD can they can kill the ST and B5 Ships MUCH faster(320 a Sec for the AD? Need maybe 4 missles tops to kill any ST or B5 Ship? yeah thats quick)

However while the CW will loose and loose baddly in a strait up fight with SW the Nova bombs realy make the siuation very odd


Hmmm

Kinda like if we modleded it after today

The Empire is USA except we only have ten Nuke, But four Hundred Iowa's and Fifty Fully Manned Carrier's and 100 Seawolfs with a 10 million standing Army

Meanwhile the CW(Russia) has a 20 Million army and 5 million nukes... But no Navy, meaning they have to Nuke or not fight at all

Meanwhile ST is France
And B5 is Germany

Both countrys have a... five person army :D


And then off to the side, Star-craft, The odd-ball
Lets call it China and delcar its Army TBA
I like that analogy, esp ST being france (even though I have a tiny bit of french in me lol).
All of them contain large amounts of rocks for the WD to mine and Considering how WD fair(The literly EAT ISD for Lunch) they should be fine by themselves
Seems similar to Homeworld Cataclysm's naggarok. Perhaps we should list all the ship eating ships from each universe :D
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Post by Mr Bean »

Seems similar to Homeworld Cataclysm's naggarok. Perhaps we should list all the ship eating ships from each universe
Yes except WD only use Astroids when they can't get planets....

An Adult(Yes there is such a thing) World Devestator if I remeber corretly from the series is supposdly over 30Km in size and able to STRIP a planet within a week of all nautral reasources all the way down to the core

Better yet World Devestators are self-propgating, At a certain point they *Build a second Devestator which goes on its merry way to Repeat the Proccess

However reproduction is tight controled and thiers a set limit of how big each can get and how many it can make

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Post by starcraft »

well here is a way to counter that the feds will aly with the common wealth they give them cloak tech and such
I love starcraft,star treck and star gate
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Post by Mr Bean »

well here is a way to counter that the feds will aly with the common wealth they give them cloak tech and such
I don't seem the likley to do such things and as it was pointed out before, AD ships are fast but a ship under power in a ST OR SW cloak is easy for a SW ship to pick up thus making any Allances kinda pointless between CW and The Federation(Or the Empire and the Feddys for that matter)


Cloaking? Useless, CW has somthing better already, Transporters? Probably not useful as one would have to re-configure the ship just like SW ships thanks to the very thick hull

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Post by His Divine Shadow »

The point you're missing is that you don't need to be in the system to know the effect an object has on the slipstream. Jeger could have been in any one of thousands of systems yet they were able to detect him through slipstream. We have all ready seen that wormholes like the one from Tunnel affect slipstream.
They detected Jaeger through his PSP though, didn't they? Did they detect the wormhole that way?
Any reason they would search for it?
The tunnel pretty much fits the definition and popular description of a wormhole. It managed to connect two points in space together and allow passage between them. Unless you want to place Star Wars in the same universe as the Commonwealth; which case the Commonwealth can ignore wormholes in favor of just slipstreaming. Mentioning the thread starter has listed slipstream as a valid way to reach the other powers.
Why would I want to do either, there are many things that do the same thing but by a wormhole.
The only thing that tunnel had in common with the wormholes we've seen is that it connected two points.
We'd need to define what sort of wormhole and if it should have any effect or where it is, what if it can only exist near a gravitaional extreme like a Black hole?
Now prove Star Wars has anything on the order of the power of a nova bomb cubed like Roseanne and I'll agree with you.
Gravshock devices can disrupt entire planets when powered by an Executor class vessel, power one with an Eclipse or Deathstar and almost certanly have enough power, thats one way, we also know they have blackhole furnaces and in NJO they studied Dovin Basals and where able to create black holes with their regular gravity well generators(though this is not applicable I know).
Ofcourse that is assuming a simple superlaser shot wouldn't do it.
1) You really think the Commonwealth will nova bomb a few systems and then stop? Then five the Empire time to plan before hitting more. The High Guard alone has over 60,000 of one variant of Shrike fighter and All Systems says several variants were made. That would be 60,000+ fighters, each of which can be carrying a nova bomb to an Imperial system. Then you have 150,000 capital ships in the High Guard DSXs, DSA, XMCs, or GDFs all capable of carrying nova bombs. Since nova bombs can be fitted to a small two man fighter most patrol craft can probably be armed with them. The Empire could easily lose on the extreme low end 100,000+ systems in a first strike.
No, I think they could take out a few(and since they have no real way of knowing the important worlds it's not that big a risk, the wormhole will be blockaded already by SW forces) then they'd start facing problems as they enter systems.
It's very likely any attack will have to fight through a blockade.

If the Highguard sends anywhere near such many ships they'd also have internal conflicts at home, most notably I think the Nietzscheans would take advantage and try and close the wormhole and create their vaunted Nietzschean Empire.

Ofcourse I see no reason in the first place for the CW to try and Nova bomb it's enemies in the first place, since the Empire is most likely not going to attack them, if there are no direct ways to each other like this:
http://hisshadow.123hostnow.com/misc/im ... laxies.jpg
then they probably meet in other galaxies, and what would we have then from the CW perspective?

We'd have a galaxy or two, that are facing invasions by another unknown enemy of high strenght, what should they do?
Should they fight to save these two galaxies, or just one, or parts of it/them?
Or jump in on the conquering and hope to keep it without fight after the galaxy is split up, or defend the people, or make themselves scarce and not attract attention to themselves maybe get a few nice techs before leaving and blowing up the wormhole and securing their rear?
Maybe they'd get new tech like FTL communication wich could revolutionize the galaxy and might prevent the long night since one major issue of the long night was that communication broke down and information was lost.

I honestly think they'd look it at pragmatically and make a very quick very fast mission of acquiring new tech and then leaving, this would not be what Dylan would have done though, but it's the most practical issue, maybe even the majority of the CW citizens won't ever know about the wormholes or what could have happened.
*snip* So any ships guarding will have at most only 5 minutes to respond to an attack that might be anywhere. It takes time to detect someone, maneuver to intercept, and then plot a jump. If you have multiple attackers coming in from a few different directions you are screwed.
Simply have a few ships around the star, or make missile platforms with hyper-equipped missiles that'll take care of most of it simply by having pre-set coordinates that'll cover most of the system in spheres of a few thousand KM's they can get around the problems of calculating jumps.

These missiles could be equipped with any manner of warheads, plausibly heavy Baradium warheads(imagine a glowing sphere 2000km+ in diameter that'll destroy anything inside it) or fusion(not nuclear) warheas made in similar manner as reactr cores on smaller ships, they could take out nearly anything within thousands of kilometers, the MF in the Flamewind of Oseon would have destroyed anything within a 1000km if it's reactor had overloaded, making missiles or mines like this that are hyper in around the target would severely fuck up chances.

Or a bit more extreme, create a linked network of shields to cover the stars or large portions of them, this is not an unfeasible thing, resource hungry perhaps but not unfeasible.

Or if the need is dire, Centrepoint station can evacuate entire planets by sending them through hyperspace, there are also known to be planets that have their own hyper-engines(Zonama Sekot being the prime example).

And they would detect the gravity anomaly created by a slipstream portal at once, and after a few systems been hit, they'll be on alert all the time.
3) Furthermore by opening slipstream portals the nova bomb carrying vessels can prevent anyone from using hyperspace. Without microjumps a SW vessel has no chance of catching and intercepting a HG vessel when they only have a few minutes.
Can prevent anyone from within how big a reach? a star system is very large, and the disruption is not going to last long.
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Post by Renewed_Valour1 »

His Divine Shadow wrote: They detected Jaeger through his PSP though, didn't they?
They detected him via the effect that his equipment had on slipstream. Basically once they entered slipstream they were able to determine where he was because the presence of that ship in a given area slightly altered the "feel" of the slipstream.
His Divine Shadow wrote: Did they detect the wormhole that way?
They were in real space when the Tunnel wormhole opened. Andromeda found it from real space by mapping all the gravity wells around her. You need to be in slipstream to detect the changes to slipstream a new object. The wormhole however did prevent the Andromeda from going to slipstream so it did have an effect on slipstream.
His Divine Shadow wrote: Any reason they would search for it?
Again it would be more a case of people feeling a change in the nature of slipstream when they are piloting it. Then investigating to see what would be causing a change in the nature of slipstream.
His Divine Shadow wrote: Gravshock devices can disrupt entire planets when powered by an Executor class vessel, power one with an Eclipse or Deathstar and almost certanly have enough power, thats one way, we also know they have blackhole furnaces and in NJO they studied Dovin Basals and where able to create black holes with their regular gravity well generators(though this is not applicable I know).
You have a large jump from going from planet disrupting to something that is equivalent to a sun killing nova bomb cubed. I wouldn't count on the fact that a Death Star or Eclipse can generate that much more power. They might be able to but I kind of doubt it. Especially since no one has thought of using them to disrupt stars.
His Divine Shadow wrote: No, I think they could take out a few(and since they have no real way of knowing the important worlds it's not that big a risk, the wormhole will be blockaded already by SW forces) then they'd start facing problems as they enter systems. It's very likely any attack will have to fight through a blockade.
If you read the starting thread thoroughly you'll see that slipstream is a valid way to contact the other galaxies. The Commonwealth can simply go around the wormholes by slipstreaming into the galaxies. Better yet they could always seal the wormholes and then slipstream in leaving the Empire stuck in terms of trying to reach the Commonwealth. While the Empire is guarding the front door the Commonwealth sneaks in the back one and steals technology they want.

Or if they wanted to run the blockade a tesseracted vessel could manage it without the Imperials knowing it ever came through there.
His Divine Shadow wrote: I honestly think they'd look it at pragmatically and make a very quick very fast mission of acquiring new tech and then leaving, this would not be what Dylan would have done though, but it's the most practical issue, maybe even the majority of the CW citizens won't ever know about the wormholes or what could have happened.
Dylan was the protégé for the High Guard Chief of Staff and her posted boy for the perfect High Guard officer. I doubt she'd have a very different view than Hunt would have. In fact confronting the Empire would be in her interests for proving to the people that the High Guard was needed even more than the Magog threat proved.

His Divine Shadow wrote: Simply have a few ships around the star, or make missile platforms with hyper-equipped missiles that'll take care of most of it simply by having pre-set coordinates that'll cover most of the system in spheres of a few thousand KM's they can get around the problems of calculating jumps.
Using slipstream portals would again render such a tactic useless. Any missiles that did jump in outside the area of effect would have to deal with defensive missiles.
His Divine Shadow wrote: Or if the need is dire, Centrepoint station can evacuate entire planets by sending them through hyperspace,
The Empire doesn't even have control of Centerpoint. Also how far away can Centerpoint hyper a planet from itself?
His Divine Shadow wrote:Can prevent anyone from within how big a reach?
Slipstream portals seem to be on the order of a large planet at the low end to somewhere between a star and blackhole for the high end. In terms of maintaining the portals all you have to do is open another portal before the last one collapse. A small group of slip capable fighters or capital ships should be able to do this.
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Post by Mr Bean »

If you read the starting thread thoroughly you'll see that slipstream is a valid way to contact the other galaxies. The Commonwealth can simply go around the wormholes by slipstreaming into the galaxies.
Ahh so Slipstream can jump between Universe now?

Since when did this happen Valor and why was I not informed?

These are worm holes linking five seperate UNIVERSE of which the Worm-holes IN those Universe, APPEARED in those Galaxys

This is not one big Happy Universe Valor

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Post by Renewed_Valour1 »

Mr Bean wrote:Ahh so Slipstream can jump between Universe now?
Well if you had read the first post.
starcraft wrote: Each power is in there own separate galaxy(s)and forst meetings happen by various means. Ex. Wormholes, slipstream drive, and etc.
So the Commonwealth slipstreams in, then takes all the useful technologies, and a few years later returns with a vengeance to stomp the Empire into the ground.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

You have a large jump from going from planet disrupting to something that is equivalent to a sun killing nova bomb cubed. I wouldn't count on the fact that a Death Star or Eclipse can generate that much more power. They might be able to but I kind of doubt it. Especially since no one has thought of using them to disrupt stars.
It's in the application of energy that matters, the Eclipse and Deathstar used direct energy transfer of a conventional nature.
If you read the starting thread thoroughly you'll see that slipstream is a valid way to contact the other galaxies. The Commonwealth can simply go around the wormholes by slipstreaming into the galaxies. Better yet they could always seal the wormholes and then slipstream in leaving the Empire stuck in terms of trying to reach the Commonwealth. While the Empire is guarding the front door the Commonwealth sneaks in the back one and steals technology they want.
I don't think thats a given, and we are discussing the wormhole scenario here, without them I don't see how they are going to find the SW galaxy without being there long enough to actually do the neccesary checking.
Or if they wanted to run the blockade a tesseracted vessel could manage it without the Imperials knowing it ever came through there.
Assuming they have it at the time, and the wormhole opening would give it away I would think.
Assuming also it could go through a wormhole whilst tesseracted, which is not a given either.
Dylan was the protégé for the High Guard Chief of Staff and her posted boy for the perfect High Guard officer. I doubt she'd have a very different view than Hunt would have. In fact confronting the Empire would be in her interests for proving to the people that the High Guard was needed even more than the Magog threat proved.
Thats a very rose colored picture, and it's not the high-guard that decides wheter to go to war against an unknown civilization that would be the ruling body's decision, I doubt they would go to war because some unknown civilization is not behaving, especially not a civilization who they could suffer greatly from engaging.
Using slipstream portals would again render such a tactic useless. Any missiles that did jump in outside the area of effect would have to deal with defensive missiles.
Using slipstream is highly questionable since they don't know where the Sw galaxy is without going through the wormhole.
And what if the Empire gets hold of slipstream?
As for defensive missiles, I doubt they'll have that much luck against very wide-area proximity weapons suddenly popping into real space.
Ofcourse the idea of wide area shielding of the sun is also a possible factor, interdicting the system is also a possible factor.
We also must factor in that they aren't in the same universe either as Mr. Bean noted.
The only way in or out is through the wormholes.
The Empire doesn't even have control of Centerpoint. Also how far away can Centerpoint hyper a planet from itself?
No limitation has been placed on Centerpoint, inter-galactic most likely.
Slipstream portals seem to be on the order of a large planet at the low end to somewhere between a star and blackhole for the high end. In terms of maintaining the portals all you have to do is open another portal before the last one collapse. A small group of slip capable fighters or capital ships should be able to do this
Even so that means they can still ge close enough, especially for those wide area missiles, the MF was able to jump inside coruscants atmosphere, in ANH they came out 1 planetary diameter away, as expected, there are also ways to make a ship capable of staying in hyperspace inside a gravity well.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Renewed_Valour1 wrote:So the Commonwealth slipstreams in, then takes all the useful technologies, and a few years later returns with a vengeance to stomp the Empire into the ground.
Or not, the existence of several galaxies that are one and the same galaxy means it's different universes.

And while the CW fucks around there they are discovered, interrogated, shot, tech is reverse-engineered and the Empire wastes the 6 galaxies like a Rhino stepping on a squirrel.
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Post by Mr Bean »

So the Commonwealth slipstreams in, then takes all the useful technologies, and a few years later returns with a vengeance to stomp the Empire into the ground.
Image
And the Empire is just sitting there doing this point?

And during this point the Emperor is allowed to rebuild the Navy how he wanted?

With Eclipses being common-place.. and you expect them to take that fleet on.... How?

Quick Cal, Eclipse is stated as being way over and SSD which is over an ISD
So 6x for the SSD from an ISD(27.8Petaonsx6=166.8x the 4 SSDs to equal an Eciplsex4=667.2 Petaons(That is concidence fokes :D)

So a ship that mounts over four hundred 1-shot 1-kill weapons on any Federation, B-5, Star-craft, CW ship

Has 667.2 Petaons of shield...

(Hmm 100 MT missles)

667,200,000,000/100=667,200,000 Missles

Wow nearly a TRILLION Cap-ship kills to defeat ONE SECTION of this ships shields
And since they can be angled and shifted around(Lowering protection in one place to boost another or evening them out so every section has = protectiong but once one section fails they all do)
For,Aft,Port,Starboard,Venteral, Dorsal
6 sections x 667.2=4003.2.... So over 4 Exotons of total shielding plus that mini-superlaser..

And according to EU the Empepoer planed for them to be common-place, one per Sector Fleet...

:shock:

And your going to Give Warse this time to build these things and WHAT useful Tech will you aquire in the mean time? 8)

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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Now lets move on and you please keep your desires to have the CW hurt the SWE somewhere else, this is not a versus.

And so far I have not seen a single reason WHY the CW would attack in the first place.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Keep this discussion trimmed down, now the Empire would most certanly invade B5 and ST, but now CW, so why would the CW attack the Empire, and why would it use nova bombs against an enemy that has not attacked them directly? Stupidity is the only reason I can think off.
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Post by Renewed_Valour1 »

His Divine Shadow wrote:I don't think thats a given,
starcraft wrote:Each power is in there own separate galaxy(s)and forst meetings happen by various means. Ex. Wormholes, slipstream drive, and etc.
Read that! Wormholes, slipstream, and etc. Slipstream is valid for the scenario to the thread creator started.
His Divine Shadow wrote:Assuming they have it at the time, and the wormhole opening would give it away I would think.
One doesn't just build the equipment to tesseract an entire solar system in a day. The Vedrans were most likely working on tesseracting ever since they first contacted the Magog to develop a capability like that. This is a situation that could go on for years so eventually the Vedrans will have their tesseracting technology refined like they did prior to the Long Night. An opening wormhole tells the Imps nothing about what they are facing or even how to affect it. They don't even have the capability to attack much less detect a tesseracted vessel.
His Divine Shadow wrote:Thats a very rose colored picture, and it's not the high-guard that decides wheter to go to war against an unknown civilization that would be the ruling body's decision, I doubt they would go to war because some unknown civilization is not behaving, especially not a civilization who they could suffer greatly from engaging.
The Commonwealth seems to have a tradition of toppling dictators. Hunt himself took place in two missions to topple dictatorships that proved no threat to the Commonwealth; however they were threats to neighboring systems.
His Divine Shadow wrote:And what if the Empire gets hold of slipstream?
As I all ready stated the Empire has no chance of even detecting a tesseracted vessel much less tracking one well enough to capture it. They can't even fight back against one if it decides to snipe at them from safety.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Read that! Wormholes, slipstream, and etc. Slipstream is valid for the scenario to the thread creator started
OK, so you need to ascribe totally absurd universe crossing properties in order to "win" this scenario as it looks like you are trying to do.
Well we can ascribe the same universe crossing properties to hyperdrive then since all kinds of freaky shit is allowed under your interpreptation of the rules.
One doesn't just build the equipment to tesseract an entire solar system in a day. The Vedrans were most likely working on tesseracting ever since they first contacted the Magog to develop a capability like that. This is a situation that could go on for years so eventually the Vedrans will have their tesseracting technology refined like they did prior to the Long Night. An opening wormhole tells the Imps nothing about what they are facing or even how to affect it. They don't even have the capability to attack much less detect a tesseracted vessel.
The wormhole opening would be enough warning, then use gravity mines, we saw that tesseracted objects are affected by gravity(Into the Labyrinth), SW has gravity bombs(black fleet crisis), simply mine the area, or just create a few blackholes to be active there all the time, they'd hit an event horizon a few micrometers from the exit.
The Commonwealth seems to have a tradition of toppling dictators. Hunt himself took place in two missions to topple dictatorships that proved no threat to the Commonwealth; however they were threats to neighboring systems.
Yah right, the commonwealth isn't stupid is it? Like the goverment would really approve of something like that for a bunch of people they don't know and in a fight they'd most certanly face heavy losses.
I don't by that by any logical standard.
As I all ready stated the Empire has no chance of even detecting a tesseracted vessel much less tracking one well enough to capture it. They can't even fight back against one if it decides to snipe at them from safety
Thats an assumption though, for all we know their FTL sensors will detect it, even so the wormhole opening would show.

And so far I don't see anything validating a reason for the CW to actually attack the Empire wich sofar won't have attacked them.
A highly artificial and unlikely situation this is...
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