'Parting of the Ways' Dalek fleet vs. the Empire

[ChosenOne54]

You don't need to edit the OP to change the thread. You've totally shifted gears to 'Daleks now have an invincible timescoop fortress', because the POTW guys kinda suck. :

Um, I think you should go back and re-read the thread before you make claims like this.

[Batman]

Sorry Stark, he's right. ThePerson5 was the one who altered the scenario, CO54 just went along with it.

[Stark]

Are you claiming you haven't changed tack from 'POTW fleet is awesome'to 'juggle planets for fun'?

The humour of you resisting any attempt to establish limits has reached extreme levels.

[ChosenOne54]

Are you claiming you haven't changed tack from 'POTW fleet is awesome'to 'juggle planets for fun'?

The humour of you resisting any attempt to establish limits has reached extreme levels.

Yes, that's exactly what I am claiming. Because I didn't change it. Read the thread.

[Stark]

Sorry Stark, he's right. ThePerson5 was the one who altered the scenario, CO54 just went along with it.

Since I said he's totally changed approach, it doesn't matter who mentioned it first. He's done nothing but giggle about METRION CASCADE since. He even ignores any attempt to understand it, because allhe cares about is 'juggle planets for fun'.

Oh CAptainIdiot do you really want me to quote all your posts about the Journeys End guys? Are you really claiming you've stuck to the OP? lol!

[ChosenOne54]

No, you claimed that it was me who changed the topic, when it wasn't. I argued the topic, but I didn't start it.

[ThePerson5]

Would the Metrion Cascade even WORK if assembled in the SW galaxy? Doesn't it have to be specific planets and times? Or do they build it first?

The Medusa Cascade is a rift in time and space. It does not need to be assembled. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[Stark]

Your intent doesn't really change the giggling posts you ve made. My favorite is where you suggest any reaction is impossible and that the Daleks are untouchable!

Anyway, the cascade is fixed to a point in space. How applicable is it to a VS? Even though it's predicated in TW technology and thus concedes this is needed to win, we see no limits and have no way to determine it's utility. I don't believe it can reach other universes, for instance.

If the Daleks are dumb enough to take Earth with the Doctor around, and they take a garrisoned world, they may be in for a hilarious surprise.

Person, I couldn't sit through the serial because it was so fucking terrible, but didn't they build a structure with planets? Was that the reality bomb or something?

[ThePerson5]

No no, the Medusa Cascade was simply the place where they built the Crucible etc. The teleported the planets to the Medusa Cascade to set their reality bomb plans in motion, but the Medusa Cascade existed either way. It is unreachable by conventional travel, and therefore if the Daleks situate their empire there, they will be basically untouchable.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Um, you can travel to the Medusa Cascade. The Doctor does it easily enough. The reason the Daleks were "untouchable" as you put it was because they put themselves "a second out of sync with the universe" or somesuch.

They built it in the Medusa Caascade so when they fired off their Reality Bomb, the blast would propogate through the space-time rift to destroy all other universes. If the Daleks just wanted to total the DW universe, they could have built the Crucible presumably anywhere.

[ChosenOne54]

Your intent doesn't really change the giggling posts you ve made. My favorite is where you suggest any reaction is impossible and that the Daleks are untouchable!

Because... it's true? The Daleks situated themselves in the Medusa Cascade, and put themselves out of sync with the universe by a second or something like that. The Galactic Empire literally would not be able to attack the Daleks.

[Stark]

So the timescoop part was just their own hardware, and they chose the spot because of the hole?

What was the go with stealing Earth then? Why didn't they do an Eternal Freedom and keep it on the down low?

Ugh. What a horrible show.

[ChosenOne54]

Because they needed Earth to complete their plans? They needed very specific planets from all across the universe to power the reality bomb.

[ThePerson5]

You know, it's rather idiotic to call the show horrible while not even having a firm grasp of the plot.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah, it's bad, but it's what we have to work with.

They stole Earth to use as part of their mega-planet-array-engine thing. They did stay quiet, until such time as they felt ready to take on the universe. And as far as the universe was concerned, even then they remained elusive. Ok, people knew planets had been taken. They had no idea where to or how or why. Or by whom.

That's a pretty good example of "keeping it down low" if you look at the bigger picture, i.e. what the rest of the universe sees.

[ChosenOne54]

Yes I agree, Season 4 was a disappointing season in general. The only real standout was Silence in he Library/Forest of the Dead. Season 2 was much more satisfying and interesting.

[Stark]

Yeah, I rembember them seeding missing planets in the season, but needing Earth is just bleh.

Anyway, if that isn't part of their Time War planetjacker, it probably isn't relevant as they won't need it. We're right back to 'time traveling culture beats non time traveling culture' for the lame, since they wouldn't even need to bring the planets to them as they did in the serial and thus be vulnerable to attack.

Lame setup is lame.

[ChosenOne54]

The thing with the Daleks is that they had so many empires over the years, as a result of having to rebuild from scratch so many times. You have:
-'Dalek Empire 1-4' Daleks
-Time War Era (most powerful)
-POTW Fleet
-New Dalek Empire
-Progenitor Daleks (current ones

And there must be more I've missed.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Agreed, it is a lame setup.

As for why they took Earth....erm....they needed to include UNIT and Torchwood for some reason? I'm reaching there I know. Author's fiat I would think.

[Stark]

It's typical of DW as a setting - after all, the 50th century guys aren't 3000 years of constant advancement ahead of now, and widely separate time periods can be similar due to constant rises and falls. The Daleks are just fucked because their timeline has been crossed so many times.

Arguably the early serials like Masterplan show very high end Daleks that may have been erased from history later.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Maybe that explains why the Daleks are so messed up - people (including them) keep fucking with their history. Might explain a few things.

I'll agree on the Masterplan point - a Time Destructor would be a very handy weapon to have in a Time War I would think, and yet nothing. Heck, the Time Destructor would have been a much better thing to have than the Reality Bomb - they coudl even explain the stolen worlds as being needed to boost the Destructor to intergalactic range. Or something.

It would have been a nice touch back to the oldest of the series.

[Stark]

The fan stuff that guys like RTD and Moffatt draw some of their ideas from include the idea that Genesis fundamentally altered Dalek history, and that many of the earlier serials either didn't happen or must have been different. Most of the older serials don't have calendar dates, so they're nearly impossible to date beyond 'before this one' or 'after this one' anyway.

Sadly for the Daleks, this means their history includes Davros, the worst thing ever to happen to them. Indeed, Dalek-wankers like John Peel wrote and published novels specifically designed to remove the parts of Dalek stories they personally don't like.

[Eternal_Freedom]

grrrr. In fairness, Davros was a good character in "Genesis" but they should have left him dead! Damn you Terry Nation.

[Stark]

When they rebooted the series, they dropped a lot of the baggage from the old show, which was good in many ways. However, as it went on, they've added most of it back in; we once again have stupid Davros, stupid the Master, stupid Time Lord idiots, Daleks that are a joke, stories based entirely on time travel as a conceit, etc. There is a lot to be said for keeping your setting relatively 'clean', and Davros being in every post-Destiny Dalek story (and, coincidentally, those stories all sucking) should have demonstrated this.

[NecronLord]

Davros being in every post-Destiny Dalek story (and, coincidentally, those stories all sucking) should have demonstrated this.

I'd say Rememberence is good...

...because of its relative lack of Davros.