Pacific Rim: SPOILER THREAD

[Lost Soal]

Reading the novel now but it screws stuff up. When watching Striker Eureka fight, the quote is "Raleigh had never been inside a Mark V. None had existed when he was a Ranger." Then on the next page it says "He'd fought with Striker Eureka once, in Manila." This along with typographical errors and perfunctory writing. Annoying but survivable.

Not read it myself but if thats the exact wording, "with" is just another way or saying "along side"

Aliens and dinos. No, no, no. Invoking dinosaurs never goes well in these sorts of stories. One of the first Predator comics tried to explain that the dinosaurs went extinct from Predator hunting. Really? No. You harm your premise with that. Just leave it out. You might get a pass if time progresses very differently in the other dimension and so it's 20 years for them between the Jurassic and Holocene and kaiju deployments from their perspective are happening every week.

When i heard it I could swear he said that the dinosaurs were the actually kaiju. They've just had 65million years to improve their genetic engineering.

[AniThyng]

The point is striker eureka is a mark v, so it couldn't have existed for him to fight alongside. On the other hand, herc Hansen, the pilot could well have fought in manila using a different Jaeger.

[jollyreaper]

Reading the novel now but it screws stuff up. When watching Striker Eureka fight, the quote is "Raleigh had never been inside a Mark V. None had existed when he was a Ranger." Then on the next page it says "He'd fought with Striker Eureka once, in Manila." This along with typographical errors and perfunctory writing. Annoying but survivable.

Not read it myself but if thats the exact wording, "with" is just another way or saying "along side"

Right, but he quit the program right after his brother died. In the movie it wasn't fully explained but in the book he was grounded for disobeying an order. Either way, he was out of the program before Eureka was operational.

Aliens and dinos. No, no, no. Invoking dinosaurs never goes well in these sorts of stories. One of the first Predator comics tried to explain that the dinosaurs went extinct from Predator hunting. Really? No. You harm your premise with that. Just leave it out. You might get a pass if time progresses very differently in the other dimension and so it's 20 years for them between the Jurassic and Holocene and kaiju deployments from their perspective are happening every week.

When i heard it I could swear he said that the dinosaurs were the actually kaiju. They've just had 65million years to improve their genetic engineering.

I think that's what they were directly implying. But whether they invented the dinosaurs or just wiped them out, 65 million years doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's a shitload of time for a culture to exist and not have any substantial change in MO. They make Middle Earth's elves look like trendy teenagers in comparison.

[SylasGaunt]

Why did the F-22's have to show off by flying between the legs of the first kaiju? Showing off. Yeah, looks cool but you'll likely go splat as we saw.

IIRC from the prequel comic by that point a lot of the pilots were running out of ordinance and making close attack runs to try to find some kind of soft-spot on Trespasser. Hell that's how Stacker's sister died (trying to shove her ordnance down its throat).

[Srelex]

I think that's what they were directly implying. But whether they invented the dinosaurs or just wiped them out, 65 million years doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's a shitload of time for a culture to exist and not have any substantial change in MO. They make Middle Earth's elves look like trendy teenagers in comparison.

Well, they do come from another dimension with implied wonky laws of reality there, so who knows.

[TOSDOC]

I read the Year One graphic novel, it was a nice read for character development. Tendo's backstory was my favorite, although I think they should have made one for Hannibal Chau too. Stacker's speech at the end was better than in the movie.

I just checked Box Office Mojo, and the film is doing well overseas. It's only 10 days in and just $12 million short of breaking even, and hasn't even opened in many countries (especially Japan!) yet. I hope this means del Toro will get his chance at a sequel and/or At The Mountains Of Madness.

[jollyreaper]

I wonder at how much padding went into that budget. Clover looked great and was $35m I believe. A lot of people get their beaks wet in this sort is production. I wonder at the conventional wisdom that break even is twice budget. I have to wonder if that's the same sort of accounting that makes Foresr Gump a money hole. I'd trust a Hollywood accountant as much as Enron's.

[Guardsman Bass]

It's hard to say. The official production budget is $190 million, but we don't know whether that's before or after they applied the Toronto film tax credits:

• Up to 37% (net incentive) on eligible labour (federal and provincial combined
• 25% on your eligible Ontario spend including all post-production
• 20% additional for eligible labour on VFX and green screen work that stacks on top of the other credits.

There's also the marketing expenses to consider, which are usually substantial for a film like this, and have to be paid back before the studio gets to take its cut out of the box office revenue. It's common to defray a lot of that expense if you have cross-promotional deals with major manufacturers of toys/merchandise/whatever, but I haven't seen any indication of that even though the film does have a deal with NECA to produce action figures.

I wonder at the conventional wisdom that break even is twice budget. I have to wonder if that's the same sort of accounting that makes Foresr Gump a money hole. I'd trust a Hollywood accountant as much as Enron's.

Don't discount it too much. The film Battleship had a listed production budget of $209 million and estimated box office revenue of $303 million, but Universal Pictures ended up taking a ~$150 million write-down on the film when all was said and done. That's not the on-paper profit for the film (which will always be in the negative), but the actual net loss for the production-distribution company after they take their "fees" out of the box-office revenue share that the theaters don't keep. John Carter was even worse - Disney's write-down was $200 million on that film.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Matters not. A sequel has been greenlit.

[jollyreaper]

Accounting gives me headaches. I never quite understood how you could lose boatloads of money on a project but net out ahead as a tax write off. I think it's because I'm thinking conventionally, like how can the CEO of a non-profit get paid $500k? Non-profit doesn't mean low pay. Clerics take a vow of poverty so how are they now so rich? Oh, right. I'm being conventional.

I heard that John Carter was used in a power play against the Disney head. It wasn't as big a loss as portrayed but it was played up along with other decisions to use to muscle him out. Any truth to that? I don't know.

You'd think that this film would be a merchandizing bonanza, not just to kids but adult collectors. Not so much at that?

[Guardsman Bass]

Matters not. A sequel has been greenlit.

It has? I thought they just wrote a sequel script for the movie, not that production for it was already greenlit.

Accounting gives me headaches. I never quite understood how you could lose boatloads of money on a project but net out ahead as a tax write off. I think it's because I'm thinking conventionally, like how can the CEO of a non-profit get paid $500k? Non-profit doesn't mean low pay. Clerics take a vow of poverty so how are they now so rich? Oh, right. I'm being conventional.

They set the movie up as a separate corporation, then charge "fees" on the revenue that flows into it. So for example, after the Marketing Costs are paid out of the studio's share of the box office revenue, the studio will charge a 30% "distribution fee" on the movie's revenue. Other fees will follow after that, until the movie itself shows a net loss on paper. But everyone involved got paid, including the studio - and they make money as long as their "fees" are more than the amount of money they actually invested into the project.

I heard that John Carter was used in a power play against the Disney head. It wasn't as big a loss as portrayed but it was played up along with other decisions to use to muscle him out. Any truth to that? I don't know.

That seems too planned out, and doesn't jibe with the accounts I've read. It seems more like they were absolutely happy to have Andrew Stanton making a movie for them (he was a big success over in Pixar), and didn't give him enough oversight..

You'd think that this film would be a merchandizing bonanza, not just to kids but adult collectors. Not so much at that?

It may have eventually made its money back that way, in addition to DVD/Blu-Ray/Licensing rights.

[mr friendly guy]

I read the Year One graphic novel, it was a nice read for character development. Tendo's backstory was my favorite, although I think they should have made one for Hannibal Chau too. Stacker's speech at the end was better than in the movie.

I just checked Box Office Mojo, and the film is doing well overseas. It's only 10 days in and just $12 million short of breaking even, and hasn't even opened in many countries (especially Japan!) yet. I hope this means del Toro will get his chance at a sequel and/or At The Mountains Of Madness.

The second largest film market is China, and I believe Japan is the third largest one. The largest market is of course North America (US + Canada). The film also hasn't been released in China yet (july 31st).

[TOSDOC]

The second largest film market is China, and I believe Japan is the third largest one. The largest market is of course North America (US + Canada). The film also hasn't been released in China yet (july 31st).

Not in China or Japan, both get to see it July 31st. We'll see what happens next week, then.

[Darksider]

Just saw the film. Pretty much loved it. The fight scenes were awesome, and that's pretty much all that I expected out of the movie. I've seen people complain that the characters were "underdeveloped," but if you went into this movie expecting to see perfectly nuanced characters then you were just setting yourself up for disappointment. I loved the design of the Jaegers, and the way that they moved and fought. I might have preferred to see some more ranged weaponry employed against the Kaiju, but I understand that the people making the film and the people anticipating it wanted to see robots punching shit.

[LadyTevar]

There was an article that I was linked to on Facebook, but I can't find it now. The author of the blog was discussing how he and his girlfriend differed in their views of the movie. The Girlfriend is somewhere on the Autism-Spectrum, so she has trouble with word-play, but she is very very good at picking up on body-language and visual cues.

She pointed out some very interesting things about PacRim.

1. Mako's hairstyle. How many of you noticed that her blue tips are the same color as her childhood coat? We are shown how she is wanting revenge, and carrying around that memory in her head, but how many of us noticed that she was Literally carrying it with her, as part of her hair?

2. Mako's non-verbal reactions to Major Pentecost. This was something we should have all seen, from her student-to-sensei bows to her moments of "father may I?" puppy-eyes. The reason was revealed in the 'rabbit hole', but even then we already had the clues she saw him as more than just a superior officer-in-charge.

3. The Russians. Very few lines, but the Girlfriend pointed out the pair were deeply sensual and sexual. When we see them in the mess hall the first time, Sasha Kaidonovsky's body language is sheer 'come-hither', and once Alexis sits down, she's snuggling into him. During the lost battle with Otachi, she is again the dominant one of them, screaming rage to the bitter end.

4. The Striker is the only (surviving) Jaeger with painted Kill tally on it.

5. Becket has been carrying those photographs with him for several years, and they are the First Things he puts up in his room, before he even unpacks his rucksack. They are where he's been living.


These are just a few examples given in the blog (wish I could find it, stupid Facebook), which also points out that all of Del Toro's movies have been extremely visual in nature. He packs his movies with rich imagery, and uses them to tell more of the stories than the script can explain. Think of the "puppet scene" in Hellboy 2, where the story explains the forging of the Golden Army, but the emotions of the puppets foreshadow just how much hatred the Prince of Elves has for his father's lack of vision.
Pacific Rim may never be a grand story for plot or characterizations, but the Visuals are more than just the Jaeger/Kaiju fights.

[Bedlam]

Mako's non-verbal reactions to Major Pentecost. This was something we should have all seen, from her student-to-sensei bows to her moments of "father may I?" puppy-eyes. The reason was revealed in the 'rabbit hole', but even then we already had the clues she saw him as more than just a superior officer-in-charge.

I so loved her look in the Dojo scene, "Can I beat him up, please! please?"

[Majin Gojira]

Mako's non-verbal reactions to Major Pentecost. This was something we should have all seen, from her student-to-sensei bows to her moments of "father may I?" puppy-eyes. The reason was revealed in the 'rabbit hole', but even then we already had the clues she saw him as more than just a superior officer-in-charge.

I so loved her look in the Dojo scene, "Can I beat him up, please! please?"

The flashback scene paid off all that non-verbal buildup in a perfect case of showing the audience rather than telling them. That one image of little Mako bawling alone, holding a broken shoe, in the middle of the destroyed city paid off so many of those little hints and perfectly encapsulated exactly what a Kaiju attack is like for those that survive.

I cannot praise that one scene/shot enough.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Out of any scene, that one reminded me of del Toro's previous works the most. It made me want to watch Pan again right after.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Saw it in Imax 3d. LOVED it.
(3d is overkill on an imax though. But the sound + Imax wasj ust awesome!)

I really feel like rewatching N.G.Evangelion now.
(Especially in regards to: Military softening up/distracting the monsters. Proper use of escape pods. Engaging at RANGE as a first, not last resort. Using super robot sized weapons first up, not after getting partially disarmed)

[Cykeisme]

The stuff pointed out by the article LadyTevar brought up are all interesting, and underline something I don't know the proper literary terms to describe.. Raleigh is the "point of view" character (that the show spends the most time on), but Mako is really the "central" character to the story.

I am not suggesting that the script should be rewritten to spend more time on Mako, it's fine the way it is; I'm just saying that her character goes through the most interesting developmental stuff in the story, and even from an in-universe perspective, she also plays a major part in all the most important events leading toward humanity's win.

(Especially in regards to: Military softening up/distracting the monsters. Proper use of escape pods. Engaging at RANGE as a first, not last resort. Using super robot sized weapons first up, not after getting partially disarmed)

Despite all the supernatural doohickery going on in Evangelion, it's pretty clear that it makes a bigger effort toward realism and believability than PacRim.
This is in no way a criticism of PacRim, because opening up on a 300ft monster with a right hook, as "Plan A", is just ridiculously awesome

[NeoGoomba]

The POV you're talking about isn't that odd. Using a character to narrate the actions of the protagonist is a way to frame a story from a certain perspective. I'm not sure if there even is a specific term/literary device for it. Look at Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption for example. Andy Dufrens is the protagonist but Red is the readers POV, and the story is colored by Red and his personality, even though the focus is on Andy.

[His Divine Shadow]

Saw the movie tonight and my reactions where mostly positive. I mean it's a popcorn flick and I sat and noted the places in the movie where suspension of disbelief failed (all the structurual stresses the robots must have taken, at times I thought damnit that should have broken into pieces just by moving like that), but I liked the overall story and the action scenes and feel was just really great, you totally lived into the action so to speak. Should have been more cherno Alpha though, i got a bit hyped on that one by reading other peoples comments about that one robot and was sad it went over so quickly. I also noticed the russian background music when it was fighting which was a nice touch.

Also I noted they often said things like "no alloys in this, pure iron armor" or something like that. What? Why?

[His Divine Shadow]

I imagine that each Mark series had certain systems in common (type of neural link, power systems, etc) but that each country customized the individual models according to their need.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

[RecklessPrudence]

Also I noted they often said things like "no alloys in this, pure iron armor" or something like that. What? Why?

Only reason I can think of offhand is that they might be saying that it's [url=http://www.dcr.net/~stickmak/JOHT/joht10strength.htm]Monocrystalline Iron[/i] or similar?

If that's true, then that's just another indication that PacRim humanity's materials tech massively improved after the first Kaiju appearance. If they can produce monocrystalline iron in the required quantities, they might have also had significant strides with carbon nanotubes and other, similar, things - which could allow for some (some) of the stuff the Jaegers pulled off.

[Sea Skimmer]

I saw it, it was amusing on the big screen, but god do I take back even giving the remotest credit to the movie for trying to stick with its premise at all. Blatantly whatever toxic hazard the monsters represent is so trivial as to not even remotely matter, the fumes from a burning tank would be more dangerous, and the mechs are armed with a whole array of cutting and explosive weapons. It was kinda just pathetic on that end. The attempts to suggest the earth is in dire economics and needs rationing were also just sad and should have been cut out. All and all it felt like one of many recent movies that would have been better in a older 90 or 105 minute format instead of the 2+ hour format now required of big budget live action.

Also I think by homage to anime the director really meant homage to Evangelion.

Also why is a giant facility not over 7 years old covered in rust and unpainted anyway? I mean they can wax the floor in the giant chamber they use for welding but not paint crew quarters for world saving top elite pilots? If the movie wanted this bleak visual style it should have specified a more protracted war.