18-Till-I-Die wrote:
I understand perhaps the chick is a bad actress and whatever
Since this is SDNet, I have to say that Mary McDonnell is doing a good job, and the plot is well done. Look at how much people are bashing Roslyn
Personally, i think the actor who plays Adama (forgot his name) is the best actor on the show, followed by Baltar. The old ex-Apollo guy, also makes a very interesting character, i love that smirk that never leaves his face like it's burned on with a laser. He's just great, love to hate him.
But i havent seen any Season 2 eps so...just my two cents.
It's interesting the number of people tearing into the Prez for her pursuing prophecy and scroll promises.
Who started the people down this road? Adama, and his speech on Earth, how it was real, and how he knew the secret.
He got that ball rolling.
- Odd Jack, Jaded Skeptic
--- jadedskeptic.blogspot.com
- "The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry."
"The universe is a strange and wondrous place. The truth is quite odd enough to need no help from pseudoscientific charlatans." - Richard Dawkins
Holy Frack. I did NOT see Cally pulling a Ruby on Sharon. Though I did expect it to happen at the crowd like that... what a show. I'm getting the DVDs and grinding them into inhalable dust, before getting another box of em.
Now. The Chief. I've said it before, he's awesome. But it's interesting that he's been on practically every (oBSG) battlestar named. Now, with the Baltar and Zarek fan clubs... where's one for Cally?!
Nephtys wrote:Holy Frack. I did NOT see Cally pulling a Ruby on Sharon. Though I did expect it to happen at the crowd like that... what a show. I'm getting the DVDs and grinding them into inhalable dust, before getting another box of em.
Now. The Chief. I've said it before, he's awesome. But it's interesting that he's been on practically every (oBSG) battlestar named. Now, with the Baltar and Zarek fan clubs... where's one for Cally?!
Durandal wrote:....if Bush came on TV and said, "We're going to find a piece of the cross Christ was crucified on, which will lead us to the Ark of the Covenant, which will make our armies invincible so we can defeat the terrorists," at least 50% of the population would really start questioning his sanity.
Let's summarize some of the snippets we know about thus far:
-Dying leader will lead them to salvation. Roslin has terminal cancer. Could be coincidental. Or not.
-Serpents numbering Ten and Two etc... Not much to substantiate this one; a kamala induced hallucination confirmed by a priest. Another interpretation was mentioned as the twelve vipers that attacked the tylium refinery. The former is very shaky, the latter could be coincidence.
-The Cylon interrogated by Starbuck told them they would find Kobol, and later Roslin sees a city in a photograph of ruins. Again, the evidence is shaky at best. Another kalama extract induced trip confirmed by the priestess.
Your forgetting the Cylon aspect of this as well. Your also forgetting that this very clearly is Kobol. Where else would humans have been and have lost and died on thousands of years prior? The age of the ruins on Kobol just so happen to match the dates exactly for the humans having left Kobol.
Moore has been keeping the religious aspect deliberately vague providing sufficent information to make clear statements not possible. Given Moore's previous work with shows like DS9, having a higher power is not an unlikely event. Making outright statements that Rosylin is a religious zealot idiot who is wrong is making an absurd judgement with our current information. We don't know which direction the show will ultimately take and we know the producer is intentionaly leaving it vague and we know he can go either way bassed on his past experience. So enough with the conclussions.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Imperial Overlord wrote:Absolutely true, but examining these events rationally and trying to interpret what is going on using logic and evidence is a far better choice than following the closest charismatic self-proclaimed prophet.
Unfortunitaly she thinks she is acting logically.
Let's be honest then, despite how nuts it sounds, is Roslin acting logicially?
-A.L.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence...Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - Calvin Coolidge
"If you're falling off a cliff you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose." - John Sheridan (Babylon 5)
"Sometimes you got to roll the hard six." - William Adama (Battlestar Galactica)
Although I didn't see Callly's assassination coming, it was totally believeable ... come on, she was making googly eyes at her hero the Chief the whole time they were on Kobol. Only Sharon stood between her and the Chief, and when they get back to Galactica she finds out Sharon is a Cylon ... and although the Chief was hostile to Cylon-Sharon at first, he was starting to show signs of compassion .... Cally, in her own mind, had no choice but to slay Sharon to 'save' the Chief, and of course leave him available for her.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon" Operation Freedom Fry
On the whole issue of Roslin & religion .... well yeah, Adama started this, thanks a bunch. But as uncomfortable as I am with the political leader being a messianic nut, like so much else in BSG it rings true, so I can enjoy it. Two powerful forces are combining to heighten the willingness to go along with this superstitious nonsense.
First, Roslin is dieing ... how many people start grasping at mystical straws when they're facing the end? Second, the species is at the brink of extinction, these are End Times as far as the civilians in the fleet are concerned. By pure logic and calculation, they are all gonna die, next time they get bounced by a couple Basestars. So naturally the scared civilians are turning to the Gods to bail them out, because logic is really unpleasant at the moment.
What's wonderfully ambiguous in the script is just how much of it all Roslin really believes. Is she doing it all just to give people something to focus on? Did she start out that way but is slowly converting herself with her own sales pitch? Or was she always a closet fundie, even before her illness? Thank you BSG for leaving such questions just unanswered enough to keep us watching for more clues.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon" Operation Freedom Fry
18-Till-I-Die wrote:unds and i appologize if i insult anyone but it's just annoying the hell out of me everyone is so certain she's wrong with aboslutely no real evidence besides their own theories and opinions.
Excuse me, the evidence is on he fucking table. Roslyn sent a vital military asset away on the eve of a vital military operation, based on two things: Hallucinations she had while under the influence of drugs, and a vague prophecy she read in a thousand-year-old religious text. This action ALONE is proof she's cracked. Seen from the viewpoint of a member of Colonial society, as opposed to that of a 3rd person viewer, she is clearly off her rocker and just plain wrong.
Unfortunitaly she thinks she is acting logically.
Let's be honest then, despite how nuts it sounds, is Roslin acting logicially?
Definitely not. There is no magic, people a hundred thousand years ago had no idea how things would be in the future, and making major policy decisions based on those predictions is madness. Adama was absolutely right to toss Roslin in the brig, and Apollo is a dipshit for following her. Thank god Billy has the stones to say it to her face that she's taking unacceptable risks for her little messianic power trip.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
John Kenneth Galbraith (1908 - )
StarshipTitanic wrote:Ooo, time for a ghetto edit:
For those of you who might wonder, the rules of Triad (or Pyramid according to the new show?) are fairly simple. Of course, the court is three-sided in (I think) the original and this one.
Shit.. you're right. Pyramid was the card game, Triad the ball game. IIRC, they creators based Triad on the Inca(?) ball courts that had been discovered in the early 70s.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
oBSG was unapoligetically religious, so I'm not surprised that Moore is continuing that line. The original Galatica found Kobol, following a legend of a 'black void in space, then suddenly one bright star'. We see that happen when Apollo and Serena(? Boxie's mom) get married. Later, it was heavily shoveled our direction with Count Iblis and the "lights" which aid Apollo and get him to save the planet Terra from nuclear war.
One of the best (and last) episodes of the original has them leaving an older part of the Galactica, just before the ancient radio/video picks up transmissions of Armstrong's first steps on the moon.
(Arguments have erupted over how far away Galactica was to have caught those, and the unfortunate result was Galatica 80.)
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
StarshipTitanic wrote:Ooo, time for a ghetto edit:
For those of you who might wonder, the rules of Triad (or Pyramid according to the new show?) are fairly simple. Of course, the court is three-sided in (I think) the original and this one.
Shit.. you're right. Pyramid was the card game, Triad the ball game. IIRC, they creators based Triad on the Inca(?) ball courts that had been discovered in the early 70s.
They are playing the Ball game played by the Maya and Aztec more or less. The new series flipped the names between the card game and ball game
For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see,
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be;
Saw the heavens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails,
Pilots of the purple twilight dropping down with costly bales;
Heard the heavens fill with shouting, and there rain'd a ghastly dew
From the nations' airy navies grappling in the central blue;
StarshipTitanic wrote:Ooo, time for a ghetto edit:
For those of you who might wonder, the rules of Triad (or Pyramid according to the new show?) are fairly simple. Of course, the court is three-sided in (I think) the original and this one.
Shit.. you're right. Pyramid was the card game, Triad the ball game. IIRC, they creators based Triad on the Inca(?) ball courts that had been discovered in the early 70s.
I agree with you that in the real world she would be nuts. But so far she has been right. Now I dont know if in fact thier religeon is true or if the Cylons are making the prophecys come true but thier is strong evidense backing her up so far. They find Kobol against all odds. The two and ten vipers story comes true from two completely different interpretations. The Pres has a wasting illness......... The colonials are not completly mad for listening to her.
For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see,
Saw the Vision of the world, and all the wonder that would be;
Saw the heavens fill with commerce, argosies of magic sails,
Pilots of the purple twilight dropping down with costly bales;
Heard the heavens fill with shouting, and there rain'd a ghastly dew
From the nations' airy navies grappling in the central blue;
The coincidences are darned startling, if you're in a ship with less than 50k survivors of your whole race, and every nutbar religious prediction has come true. Finding Kobol itself would probably be a shock as well.
Don't forget, the Colonials all seem to share the same religion... just on differing levels of actual belief on the prophicies.
Nephtys wrote:Don't forget, the Colonials all seem to share the same religion... just on differing levels of actual belief on the prophicies.
Thats the big thing to remember, While we have one planet and about 10,000 religions all against one another... They had 12 planets and (( seemingly )) One religion which was just interpreted on various levels. Gemini being the most ardent in it's beliefs.
When you have a set up like that, you know All people will have some bit of faith in the same religion, things like what the prez is doing become more believable.
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan Read "Tales From The Crossroads"! Read "One Wrong Turn"!
It would be somewhat ridiculous to conclude she's not a drugged up lunatic when we see she is, in fact, a drugged up lunatic.
Other then the minor fact that she's had many unexplainable incidents. Need I remind you of the vissions she had of the Cylon?
Now something else to consider. There gods need not be proper gods but could in be something else entirely. Maybe more like ascended Ancients from SG1 or some higher being like Exar Kun or Q.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Thats what they were in the original series wasnt it? Didnt one say, "we're men like you, but from a civilization vastly older" or something like that? It was the episode where Starbuck goes to stop a war on Terra.
Alyeska wrote:Notice how after being boarded by Cylons the Marines are all packing rifles instead of SMGs?
They are carrying CX-4 Storm rifles. Not really an improvement over the P-90 since they are either carrying .45 or 9mm pistol ammo.
We also saw an L-85 in the hands of the guys on Caprica, as well as an assortment of weapons. Including an H&K UMP and a pair of Skorpion vz.61. Couldn't tell what Helo was packing.
Those are the real weapons they are carrying, but its already been stated that the Colonial weapons are much more powerful. They fire a missile like round. Look at the damage Starbuck was doing to the building when she missed while firing at Six. Look what a single pistol (smallest yet seen) was able to do to Adama. Thats some impressive firepower.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."
"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
Alyeska wrote:Those are the real weapons they are carrying, but its already been stated that the Colonial weapons are much more powerful. They fire a missile like round. Look at the damage Starbuck was doing to the building when she missed while firing at Six. Look what a single pistol (smallest yet seen) was able to do to Adama. Thats some impressive firepower.
No, only one type of pistol fires the minirockets. Adama was shot with a 9mm pistol. Coddle was told this when he was about to treat Adama. The pilots are now using a new type of pistol that needs explosive rounds to take down Centurions.
