nBSG : "Home"

[xerex]

dude , what was the point of of even arguing this? you could have just asked "how do you know this?"

Like this?

They've mined once. It was for water. What evidence do you have to support them doing it periodically? You state it like fact.

Read first.

hey AS I quoted you. dont you think I know what I quoted. and if you cant see you post and its followups where all quite belligerent and accusative you need to check yourself.

[Crown]

Here's my question; where is Billy? I know that he is only a B character but still, he stayed onboard Galactica, so where is he

[xerex]

Here's my question; where is Billy? I know that he is only a B character but still, he stayed onboard Galactica, so where is he

if he's smart , keeping as low a profile as possible, if he's lucky he's staying with Dualla (sp?)

[StarshipTitanic]

More so then any traditional military.

Except I just pointed out that there had been 12 separate militaries a little over 40 years previously and there is a black market for buying military-grade equipment stored in government facilities. How do you reconcile these facts?

Do I get a responce to this or not?

[Alyeska]

More so then any traditional military.

Except I just pointed out that there had been 12 separate militaries a little over 40 years previously and there is a black market for buying military-grade equipment stored in government facilities. How do you reconcile these facts?

Do I get a responce to this or not?

I did not know that the colonies each had their own military. Though it begs the question, how did weapons of each colony reach Caprica, unless civilian owned.

[StarshipTitanic]

Except I just pointed out that there had been 12 separate militaries a little over 40 years previously and there is a black market for buying military-grade equipment stored in government facilities. How do you reconcile these facts?

Do I get a responce to this or not?

I did not know that the colonies each had their own military. Though it begs the question, how did weapons of each colony reach Caprica, unless civilian owned.

Aren't surplus weapons sold by the military fooled around with until they aren't military-grade? I admit I don't know much at all about it.

[Alyeska]

Do I get a responce to this or not?

I did not know that the colonies each had their own military. Though it begs the question, how did weapons of each colony reach Caprica, unless civilian owned.

Aren't surplus weapons sold by the military fooled around with until they aren't military-grade? I admit I don't know much at all about it.

Depends on the weapon system and the country. In the United States surplus small arms used to be sold unmodified and the US government still on ocassion sells off large stocks of vintage WW2 weapons. Higher level weapon systems such as aircraft and tanks have to be modified not to use weapons, though for a time Howitzers were sold unmodified. If the 1986 fully automatic ban had not been in place the US government would probably still be selling surpluss and out of date newer weapon systems that were just too worn out for military use.

[Durandal]

That priestess woman getting blown up was the high point for me. Her damage has already been done, but at least now she won't be able to continually poison Roselyn's mind with ramblings about scripture and chosen ones.

The mined tombstone should be a pretty damn clear indicator that the scriptures are full of shit and that the Cylons just set it all up to lure the religious fanatics in.

[phongn]

The mined tombstone should be a pretty damn clear indicator that the scriptures are full of shit and that the Cylons just set it all up to lure the religious fanatics in.

Equally, could not the Cylons have mined the existing tombstones, knowing well that the they might well be investigated (since the Cylons seem to know the scriptures as well as the Colonials)?

[InnocentBystander]

I sorta doubt that the scriptures are full of it, don't they predate the cylons? My guess would be that the Clyons did the leg work, and found the Tomb, but the orbiting basestar was destroyed before they could really fortify the region. Alternatively, the cylons could be just trying to follow scripture, any return to Kobol means someone has to die, they can make sure this happens, with only a few centurions.

On cylon armor strengths:
I watched the fight again, the first cylon to go down is hit in the shoulder, from what I saw. It didn't appear that it was hit in some critical area, it just looks like these centurions aren't quite as heavily armored. In season one, I seem to recall watching Helo put a sizeable hole in one with his pistol, but in the Cylon Boarding episode they're immunue to everything but HE rounds, then on Caprica during the assault to save Starbuck we see a centurion take a direct hit to the side from the Heavy Raptor's cannon, but don't see any penetration.
So we've got examples where they are almost as tough as tanks, and others where they are a little more toned down. Did anyone notice any difference between the boarder/Caprica med cylons? I don't recall any.

[Galvatron]

One thing I just don't understand about all the Roslin haters: what makes you so sure they're not going to validate every single action she's taken? Do you really expect Ron Moore to have them NOT find the way to Earth on Kobol?

And what other choice do they have? Kobol's occupied by the Cylons so they can't settle there. Adama has no idea if Earth really exists, much less where it is. They're fucked. Why not take a shot and see if the President is right?

[Skylon]

Here's my question; where is Billy? I know that he is only a B character but still, he stayed onboard Galactica, so where is he

I think Billy might be in limbo for awhile.

I remember hearing some talk that there were some rumblings he'd be leaving the cast for his own show, but the deal fell through and he'll be staying on BSG.

Maybe not soon enough though that the writers didn't plan on using him for a spell?

[Uraniun235]

One thing I just don't understand about all the Roslin haters: what makes you so sure they're not going to validate every single action she's taken? Do you really expect Ron Moore to have them NOT find the way to Earth on Kobol?

And what other choice do they have? Kobol's occupied by the Cylons so they can't settle there. Adama has no idea if Earth really exists, much less where it is. They're fucked. Why not take a shot and see if the President is right?

Roslyn is probably correct, from our perspective, in that the legend surrounding the Tomb of Athena should at least be explored, before heading out to the infinite depths of space.

However...

She did betray Adama's trust by doing an end-run around him. She did undermine his authority. She did establish a dangerous precedent of going around him whenever she feels like it.

She is tripping on drugs. Granted, we may know that this tripping is accurate to some degree (as she foresaw the spacing of the Cylon), but Adama doesn't know that.

The resources of Galactica are quite limited. The risks, the losses that could possibly be incurred in an expedition to Cylon-occupied Kobol are quite high in light of the fact that replacement equipment will be very scarce from now on and replacement personnel even moreso. To take on this risk pursuing a legend would probably strike most people as absurd.

From our perspective as the audience, Roslyn's actions will probably be justified to some degree; even so, they are still not without fault. And from Adama's perspective as an unbeliever, they are simply absurd.

[Uraniun235]

fuck, addendum

She is tripping on drugs. Granted, we may know that this tripping is accurate to some degree (as she foresaw the spacing of the Cylon), but Adama doesn't know that.

Neglected to mention that if she did tell Adama, he would probably think she was crazy.

[Durandal]

One thing I just don't understand about all the Roslin haters: what makes you so sure they're not going to validate every single action she's taken? Do you really expect Ron Moore to have them NOT find the way to Earth on Kobol?

Suspending disbelief and ignoring common storytelling conventions, Roselyn is a bat-shit insane religious fundamentalist by any reasonable account. And by the way, nBSG hasn't exactly been a show that follows conventions. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it did turn out to be nothing more than religious bullshit.

And what other choice do they have? Kobol's occupied by the Cylons so they can't settle there. Adama has no idea if Earth really exists, much less where it is. They're fucked. Why not take a shot and see if the President is right?

Because there are better things they could be doing? Like ... surviving?

[Alyeska]

Suspending disbelief and ignoring common storytelling conventions, Roselyn is a bat-shit insane religious fundamentalist by any reasonable account. And by the way, nBSG hasn't exactly been a show that follows conventions. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it did turn out to be nothing more than religious bullshit.

Moore has left the religious element deliberately clouded so that no one can say for sure one way or another. And doing so this early in the game and insulting characters for it is rather arrogant.

Something else to consider. D made a very good point about this with Adama. Adama set Rosilyn in motion when he gave that first motivational speech about finding Earth.

[Galvatron]

Suspending disbelief and ignoring common storytelling conventions, Roselyn is a bat-shit insane religious fundamentalist by any reasonable account. And by the way, nBSG hasn't exactly been a show that follows conventions.

I'm actually surprised that more people aren't critical of Adama's obstructionism, especially given the fact that both Starbuck and Apollo are rational and on board with Roslin's plans. I guess that says a lot about EJO's charisma as an actor. I find myself siding with him too, despite the fact that I'm pretty sure the president is right.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if it did turn out to be nothing more than religious bullshit.

I would. Ron Moore seems to be perfectly willing to deny some conventions, but he seems pretty beholden to the key story elements of the original show. Finding the way to Earth on Kobol seems to be one of them. But, hey, I've been wrong before...

And what other choice do they have? Kobol's occupied by the Cylons so they can't settle there. Adama has no idea if Earth really exists, much less where it is. They're fucked. Why not take a shot and see if the President is right?

Because there are better things they could be doing? Like ... surviving?

And then what? Granted, they just stocked up on tyllium and water, but how long can they survive just wandering aimlessly around the universe?

And, to everyone, here are the characters' names with correct spellings.

[Uraniun235]

Something else to consider. D made a very good point about this with Adama. Adama set Rosilyn in motion when he gave that first motivational speech about finding Earth.

Except she knew Adama was bullshitting about that. She was in on it the whole time. And then she turned around and backstabbed him.

And then what? Granted, they just stocked up on tyllium and water, but how long can they survive just wandering aimlessly around the universe?

So, what you're saying is that there's either an Earth or there's no hope at all whatsoever for humanity?

Theoretically, they could find a resource-rich asteroid field, lay low, and establish a space colony - I know someone around here was pimping asteroid colonies awhile back. IIRC, that was the premise behind one of the sequel novels based on the original BSG.

[Alyeska]

Future episodes will point out how establishing is not a good idea. Can't get any further then that.

[Uraniun235]

Yeah, but we don't know that now, therefore it's not a relevant in-universe criticism to any decisions made up to now.

[SecurityJames]

Personally, I like certain ironies about this season when compared to original BSG. In the orgininal BSG, Apollo and Starbuck were both openly contemptuos of the Council of Twelve and their abilities to lead the fleet. They even went so far as to suggest to Adama that a coup should be staged to keep him in command and Adama was aghast at the idea of supplanting the civillian government. Now in neo BSG, it's Adama who commits a coup and Apollo and Starbuck who support the civillian government. It's wonderful irony.

[Skylon]

One thing I just don't understand about all the Roslin haters: what makes you so sure they're not going to validate every single action she's taken? Do you really expect Ron Moore to have them NOT find the way to Earth on Kobol?

Suspending disbelief and ignoring common storytelling conventions, Roselyn is a bat-shit insane religious fundamentalist by any reasonable account. And by the way, nBSG hasn't exactly been a show that follows conventions. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it did turn out to be nothing more than religious bullshit.

Okay, just because the things written in the Colonial's holy-book don't make them unfounded and worthless religous crap. Some actual historical facts are interpreted from religous texts.

From the colonial standpoint, they could probably determine scientifically they are in fact alien to the 12 colonies (genetics, comparing their DNA to that of native creatures). If they find many of the structures on Kobol described in the holy-books, then they will have found their planet of origin. Again, whether-or-not the Arrow of Apollo does jack shit remains to be seen.

Whether or not literal "gods" lived on Kobol, I doubt it. I suspect two things on this account, Ron Moore will keep things ambiguous or possibly play the alien card if the show keeps running.

BTW: "The path was littered with gravestones"...well, shit there was one. Score one for the Colonial religous texts.

[HemlockGrey]

Were it not for the nebulous existance of the "Plan" the Cylons would be contenders for World's Worst Badguys. Not only have they failed to eliminate the Galactica on several occasions despite overwhelming numerical superiority, not only have they failed to eliminate a paltry resistance (with no base of support and no place to blend in) over which they have every advantage, they have now failed to kill a small Colonial landing team despite ambushing them, hitting them with mines, trapping them in a small valley and attacking from all directions.

Suspending disbelief and ignoring common storytelling conventions, Roselyn is a bat-shit insane religious fundamentalist by any reasonable account. And by the way, nBSG hasn't exactly been a show that follows conventions. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it did turn out to be nothing more than religious bullshit.

Well it could be a "self-fulfilling prophecy" thing. There were no gravestones, but the Cylons planted one, and so people died, and so another part of the scriptures were fulfilled. I don't know how it'll tie into the Tomb. My guess is that the Tomb will show them a high-tech map left by the 13th Colony.

[Skylon]

I don't know how it'll tie into the Tomb. My guess is that the Tomb will show them a high-tech map left by the 13th Colony.

I'm kinda expecting a map-room ala Raiders of the Lost Ark, only with star-charts.

[Knife]

I don't know how it'll tie into the Tomb. My guess is that the Tomb will show them a high-tech map left by the 13th Colony.

I'm kinda expecting a map-room ala Raiders of the Lost Ark, only with star-charts.

The starmap from KOTOR would be cool.