Palpatine vs. the God Emperor of Mankind (WH40K)

[Lord Zentei]

When has Palpatine showed not just the ability to dial down a force storm (He has shown that) but to make it far faster when it would need less energy?

The force storms is a quick combat power with low energy. Watch the movies and read the novelizations, for crying out loud.

You also didn't address the point of him not using it in a straight up hth fight with a comparable opponent, it's not really effective as a combat power, simple as that.

Not so. The times that he has been thwarted in its close combat use is against opponents proficient in the Force. Moreover, the only one who could easily rebuff his force storms in a close combat setting was Mace Windu, due to his special (and unique) talent (and that was only a low setting storm). Everyone else was exhausted pretty damn quickly, even at such low setting.

If Palpatine and the Thirster started on opposite continents and the Thirster had no ranged psychic ability then Palpatine would do it, but if the Thirster was anywhere near melee/hitting range then Palpatine would not have a chance.

Bloodthirsters require complex rituals to summon them into a daemonhost. They are not summoned instantaneously like lesser daemons. The scenario you describe where the daemon starts out in close proximity at the outset cannot occour.

Also, spoilers on a 60-70 year old series of books is a bit iffy, although I apologize for not thinking of it from your view.

Well, I was more thinking in terms of the movie, as not everyone has read the book, but meh.

Energy powered by pure hatred doesn't seem like it would be very effective against Khornate daemons.

Force lightning is pure hatred, so it's effectiveness against a being made of raw anger and bloodlust who's "maker" is empowered by hatred
(Or is that Nurgle? I think that Khorne being in "charge" of all negative angry and war related emotions would find hate part of his "power base").

Hatered is the portfolio of Malal, not Khorne. And though Khorne's daemons do possess anti magic talents, there is a limit to this depending on the power of the daemon, the degree of Khorne's power that it manifests.

[Currald]

The link between 40K and Fantasy has never been explicitly denied in any writing that I've seen. Hell, the new Liber Chaotica, supposedly penned by an inhabitant of the Empire on the Warhammer World, makes many references to the Chaos Marine Legions, Eldar, Mortarion, Dark Mechanicus, etc.
Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned makes no bones about it: the Warhammer World is a "lost" planet, cut off from the rest of the 40K galaxy by warp storms.

[technomage]

When has Palpatine showed not just the ability to dial down a force storm (He has shown that) but to make it far faster when it would need less energy?

The force storms is a quick combat power with low energy. Watch the movies and read the novelizations, for crying out loud.

You also didn't address the point of him not using it in a straight up hth fight with a comparable opponent, it's not really effective as a combat power, simple as that.

Not so. The times that he has been thwarted in its close combat use is against opponents proficient in the Force. Moreover, the only one who could easily rebuff his force storms in a close combat setting was Mace Windu, due to his special (and unique) talent (and that was only a low setting storm). Everyone else was exhausted pretty damn quickly, even at such low setting.

Is someone confusing Force Lightning with Force Storms again?

Lightning is when Palpatine screams with hatred and/or sadistic joy and shoots out purple bolts of electricity/materialized hatred (WTF?) and cooks someone alive. Force storms are what happens when he get really pissed off and decides to start ravaging cities, starships, or entire fleets.

That storm on Coruscant didn't eat an army, as far as I know, it only grabbed Luke Skywalker (and Artoo-Detoo), but I don't remember seeing his X-wing anywhere. And I doubt that the storm dragged him all the way to Byss, considering that Luke arrived there inside a Dungeon Ship.

[Lord Zentei]

Is someone confusing Force Lightning with Force Storms again?

Lightning is when Palpatine screams with hatred and/or sadistic joy and shoots out purple bolts of electricity/materialized hatred (WTF?) and cooks someone alive. Force storms are what happens when he get really pissed off and decides to start ravaging cities, starships, or entire fleets.

That storm on Coruscant didn't eat an army, as far as I know, it only grabbed Luke Skywalker (and Artoo-Detoo), but I don't remember seeing his X-wing anywhere. And I doubt that the storm dragged him all the way to Byss, considering that Luke arrived there inside a Dungeon Ship.

Sigh. It seems I suffered a momentary and horrendous lapse in cognition, and yes, a momentary confusion of the two. My apologies.

My other points remain. As for whether the time to summon a Force Storm is reduced when it is smaller, I stand by that simply by dint of its being plausible: if it takes a long time to summon a shitload of energy, it would take less time to summon a smaller ammount, no?

As to whether it is possible to summon it fast enough, well one would have to find figures for how long it took to summon such and such an ammount of energy with ideally two calibration points.

The precog aspect of the argument stands also, mind, so the relevance of the lapse is questionable.

[NecronLord]

The precog aspect of the argument stands also,

Chaos routinely defeats people who have precognition that is at least two orders of magnitude - and in some cases, even higher, one farseer saw things half a million years into the future - than Palpatine's.

[Lord Zentei]

The precog aspect of the argument stands also,

Chaos routinely defeats people who have precognition that is at least two orders of magnitude - and in some cases, even higher, one farseer saw things half a million years into the future - than Palpatine's.

"Routinely", I doubt that. Anyway, there is always more to a Chaos incursion than the Greater Daemon in a one on one.

[NecronLord]

"Routinely", I doubt that.

Do the craftworld Eldar look like they're winning?

[Lord Zentei]

"Routinely", I doubt that.

Do the craftworld Eldar look like they're winning?

If they were "routinely" defeated in battle, they would by now be extinct. They have been on the brink of extinction for 10000 years, for fuck's sake. And still they cling on by being two steps ahead of the opposition (except the Deceiver).

[NecronLord]

If they were "routinely" defeated in battle, they would by now be extinct. They have been on the brink of extinction for 10000 years, for fuck's sake. And still they cling on by being two steps ahead of the opposition (except the Deceiver).

No, the survival strategy of, for example, Ulthwe, basically boils down to running away from the Eye at full speed. They've only actually started making real progress and seizing the initiative in the last world campaign, and that was unexpected.

[Lord Zentei]

If they were "routinely" defeated in battle, they would by now be extinct. They have been on the brink of extinction for 10000 years, for fuck's sake. And still they cling on by being two steps ahead of the opposition (except the Deceiver).

No, the survival strategy of, for example, Ulthwe, basically boils down to running away from the Eye at full speed. They've only actually started making real progress and seizing the initiative in the last world campaign, and that was unexpected.

That is not what I meant. I was not referring to whether they were being proactive, but that they anticipated the moves of their opponents so as to improve their chances of success in acheiving whatever their objectives are at any given time. The strategic doctrine being applied is not relevant to that.

[NecronLord]

That is not what I meant. I was not referring to whether they were being proactive, but that they anticipated the moves of their opponents so as to improve their chances of success in acheiving whatever their objectives are at any given time. The strategic doctrine being applied is not relevant to that.

Not really, they are frequently defeated. This doesn't mean they are usually defeated, but that they do not always win. Chaos forces are able to overcome Eldar; Palpatine's precog isn't going to be much of an advantage in fighting their leaders.

[Lord Zentei]

That is not what I meant. I was not referring to whether they were being proactive, but that they anticipated the moves of their opponents so as to improve their chances of success in acheiving whatever their objectives are at any given time. The strategic doctrine being applied is not relevant to that.

Not really, they are frequently defeated. This doesn't mean they are usually defeated, but that they do not always win. Chaos forces are able to overcome Eldar; Palpatine's precog isn't going to be much of an advantage in fighting their leaders.

Ok, but I would interpret "routinely" as "usually", though.

As to this: the opponents of the Eldar are the Chaos Gods, not just a single greater daemon. It is they that thwart the Farseers when they are thwarted.