Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

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Murazor
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

I rather liked Donald Kingbury's interpretation of the whole thing in his "Psychohistorical Crisis". A book which I recommend, by the way.
And what is that?
Psychohistorical Crisis is a novel set in a sort of alternate Foundationverse, with names altered to avoid lawsuits (the Mule alternate being called Cloun-the-Stubborn, for example), and where the main difference is that there is no telepathy (the alternate psychohistorians have expanded mental capabilities through cybernetic implants, but no supernatural capabilities).

With no mental powers to fall back, the alternate Second Foundation has monopoly of psychohistory mathematics as its sole tool for galactic rule. Which they lose eventually, because of the events in the novels. Resulting in a horrible mess in a galactic scale, as all centers of political power develop their own predictive capacities through psychohistory and go to war with crazy levels of prediction and counter-prediction.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by chornedsnorkack »

Murazor wrote:13.
Mallow relaxed for almost the first time in six months. He was on his back in the sunroom of his new house, stripped to the skin. His great, brown arms were thrown up and out, and the muscles tautened into a stretch, then faded into repose.
...

Well, I just realized that apparently Hober Mallow is supposed to be a colored character, unless his arms are brown because of a tan.

Supposing that my interpretation is right, though, that's... mighty forward-thinking of Asimov, seeing that the novel was first published in 1951.

But that story was August 1944.
Murazor wrote:
"You wish to be coaxed? Well, then, what, for instance, did you do at Korell? Your report was incomplete."
"I gave it to you months ago. You were satisfied then."
"Yes," Sutt rubbed his forehead thoughtfully with one finger, "but since then your activities have been significant. We know a good deal of what you're doing, Mallow. We know, exactly, how many factories you're putting up; in what a hurry you're doing it; and how much it's costing you. And there's this palace you have," he gazed about him with a cold lack of appreciation, "which set you back considerably more than my annual salary; and a swathe you've been cutting -a very considerable and expensive swathe- through the upper layers of Foundation society."
"So? Beyond proving that you employ capable spies, what does it show?"
"It shows you have money you didn't have a year ago. And that can show anything -for instance, that a good deal went on at Korell that we know nothing of. Where are you getting your money?"
"My dear Sutt, you can't really expect me to tell you."
"I don't."
"I didn't think you did. That's why I'm going to tell you. It's straight from the treasure-chests of the Commdor of Korell."
Sutt blinked.
Mallow smiled and continued. "Unfortunately for you, the money is quite legitimate. I'm a Master Trader and the money I received was a quantity of wrought iron and chromite in exchange for a number of trinkets I was able to supply him with. Fifty per cent of the profit is mine by hidebound contract with the Foundation. The other half goes to the government at the end of the year when all good citizens pay their income tax."
"There was no mention of any trade agreement in your report."
"Nor was there any mention of what I had for breakfast that day, or the name of my current mistress, or any other irrelevant detail." Mallow's smile was fading into a sneer. "I was sent -to quote yourself- to keep my eyes open. They were never shut. You wanted to find out what happened to the captured Foundation merchant ships. I never saw or heard of them. You wanted to find out if Korell had nuclear power. My report tells of nuclear blasters in the possession of the Commdor's private bodyguard. I saw no other signs. And the blasters I did see are relics of the old Empire, and may be show-pieces that do not work, for all my knowledge.
"So far, I followed orders, but beyond that I was, and still am, a free agent. According to the laws of the Foundation, a Master Trader may open whatever new markets he can, and receive therefrom his due half of the profits. What are your objections? I don't see them."
The trade agreement detailed in chapter 5 turns out to be surprisingly lucrative for Mallow, who uses the benefits to build himself a bunch of factories, a palace and gain legitimacy through generous bribery with money to spare.
What surprise?

Going from 6 star systems of Korell, and Anacreon´s average of 760 million people per star system, Mallow has a personal monopoly to breakneck pace overhauling of an economy 30 times the size of Russia in 1991. Which means that he can expect profits hundreds of times of what Abramovich and his ilk got.
Murazor wrote:
"The primary reason for the development of trade and traders was to introduce and spread this religion more quickly, and to insure that the introduction of new techniques and a new economy would be subject to our thorough and intimate control."
He paused for breath, and Mallow interjected quietly, "I know the theory. I understand it entirely."
"Do you? It is more than I expected. Then you see, of course, that your attempt at trade for its own sake; at mass production of worthless gadgets, which can only affect a world's economy superficially; at the subversion of interstellar policy to the god of profits; at the divorce of nuclear power from our controlling religion: can only end with the overthrow and complete negation of the policy that has worked successfully for a century."
"And time enough, too," said Mallow, indifferently, "for a policy outdated, dangerous and impossible. However well your religion has succeeded in the Four Kingdoms, scarcely another world in the Periphery has accepted it. At the time we seized control of the Kingdoms, there were a sufficient number of exiles, Galaxy knows, to spread the story of how Salvor Hardin used the priesthood and the superstition of the people to overthrow the independence and power of the secular monarchs. And if that wasn't enough, the case of Askone two decades back made it plain enough. There isn't a ruler in the Periphery now that wouldn't sooner cut his own throat than let a priest of the Foundation enter the territory.
"I don't propose to force Korell or any other world to accept something I know they don't want. No, Sutt. If nuclear power makes them dangerous, a sincere friendship through trade will be many times better than an insecure overlordship, based on the hated supremacy of a foreign spiritual power, which, once it weakens ever so slightly, can only fall entirely and leave nothing substantial behind except an immortal fear and hate."
Note the existence of the exiles.

When Anacreon was put under interdict, Hardin boasted that he grounded all ships - remember, Anacreon had had ships 30 years ago, and Askone still had then 55 years later. Well, that was a few minutes after the surprise. The sinful nobles of 4 Kingdoms eventually did figure out how to fly their ships without divine approval, before Sermak´s priests showed up with peasants and pitchforks to confiscate their manors and ships - and the Four Kingdoms navies now armed by priests could not catch them.
Murazor wrote:
The mayor pounded monotonously for order, as the chamber lost its equilibrium and the gallery roared. In five million homes on Terminus, excited observers crowded their receiving sets more closely, and at the prosecutor's own bench, Jorane Sutt shook his head coldly at the nervous high priest, while his eyes blazed fixedly on Mallow's face.
There are apparently in the order of five million homes on Terminus at this point, suggesting a population somewhere in the double digits of millions for the planet. And probably low double digits, at that.
The population had grown 10 times in 50 years from 1 to 50 FE - some breeding, most must have been immigration - and mostly for inner Empire, very little from barbarian surroundings. Now, it has been about 20 times in 105 years. Still too much for breeding, and no immigration from Empire, but we hear of immigrants from 4 Kingdoms.

Since Anacreon was 19 milliards in 80 FE, thus about 60 milliards of 4 Kingdoms together, and population was then growing rapidly, 100 milliard subjects of Foundation at that point may not be an overestimate. The residents of Terminus - not clear whether all of them are given citizenship and vote - are outnumbered by their subjects 1 to 5000.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

Murazor wrote:
Boeing 757 wrote:
chornedsnorkack wrote:Seldon has no sense of scale.

19 billions is relatively reasonable. For 32 inhabited worlds, it means an average of 600 millions - less than that at the Fall. Comparable to the population of 1940-s India or China - and India showed how a large population could be ruled for far, far away even with 18th century technology. Thus Anselm haut Rodric, a "subprefect", may have been a governor of a world - similar to a viceroy of India.

But the Empire...

If the Empire had around a million prefectures, you´d expect higher administrative levels - province, sector, quadrant - to have some importance in the story. There are none. You never hear of a unit of over 30 systems mentioned.
And why exactly should it have any bearing on the story? Asimov didn't delve too much into this subject (and rightly so), but from that throwaway quote about "sectors" and "quadrants" being seemingly larger than "prefects" and "provinces", we can presume that they have their space divided into regions that hold much more than thirty systems. I hope I needn't go over why this makes sense. If they have a million prefectures it would make it infinitely harder for their governors to be held accountable by the Trantorian leadership, whereas splitting everything up into more expansive administrative units shall allow the emperor and his bureaucrats to implement laws quicker and in a more coordinated way. Somewhat of a necessity for a galactic empire spanning tens of millions of systems....
Second Foundation (the book) actually mentions that Sectors (capital S used in the text) have populations in the trillions during the Interregnum period.

This is obviously a huge range, but using 2 trillion for a low end, you'd still need 333 planets with Earth-like populations or 3333 planets with populations around the average planetary pop for the kingdom of Anacreon. And there are over two orders of magnitude of wiggle room, so I'd say that Sectors as administrative divisions that span anywhere from hundreds to many thousands of worlds has some support.
Well then, I think that that settles it. It appears that whether Asimov intented to do it or not, a sector likely contains many more systems than does a prefect or province. Additionally, I reckon that is safe to claim that not all sectors are made equal: that is, there must be some sectors that encompass more worlds than others owing to factors such as population, natural resources, military interests and political favor.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by chornedsnorkack »

Simon_Jester wrote:
...and somehow the Foundation had not even considered the possibility of the Empire still existing somewhere in the galaxy. How this is possible with the Empire still using hyperwave transmissions is anyone's guess.
Transmissions may damp out over long distances unless relayed.

As to the rest- I think you're reading a bit too much into Mallow's reaction. He may know, intellectually, that a rump-state version of the Empire still exists... and yet the mystique the Empire has for any galactic citizen of this era is still powerful.
We know that Hardin, during 80 FE, reflected on his complete ignorance on whether there was an Emperor or an Empire. And HE was the ruler of Terminus and the man in best position to gather any intelligence available anywhere in 4 Kingdoms and take it seriously. But no. All communications were cut 30 years ago. As far as Hardin in 80 FE or Mallow in 155 FE knew, the whole Empire could have gone on to fall into pieces no bigger than Anacreon or Korell in a few years after 50 FE.

What is odd is his emphasis that their world was now limited to 4 Kingdoms. We never hear of the barbarian kingdoms directly neighbouring Anacreon, Smyrno, Loris and the kingdom of Konom and Daribow on the other side. The 4 Kingdoms should have been able to maintain communications with at least them - even the dispossessed nobles of Four Kingdom were able to flee somewhere. And if warlike nobles like Wienis or his elder brother found the other Three Kingdoms too hard to crack - they were equally armed by Foundation - they could have used their newbuilt fleets to pursue safe conquests of the "barbarians" away from Foundation assistance.

No mention of them doing so.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

I'm pretty sure that they relay their hyperwave transmissions given that in Forward the Foundation Seldon communicates on Trantor in real time with an Imperial Admiral replying from Anacreon (~30,000 lightyears distance), and then a couple of decades later Terminus is not able to pick up or broadcast messages outside of the Periphery region. It's possible that once the Foundation and Periphery provinces lost their grasp on more advanced forms of power generation, they found themselves unable to propagate their transmissions beyond 500 lightyears as mentioned in the original Foundation book.

It has also been a while since I read Foundation and Empire, but as I recall the dying Empire still retained the ability to send transgalactic messages, since Bel Riose and Lord Brodrig were in constant communication with Trantor which is half a galaxy away from where their fleet was positioned. That may imply that their warships are able to broadcast via hyperwave without the use of a relaying station since none should have been available to them in the Periphery region at that time period.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Connor MacLeod »

It may also have to do with the nature of the signal itself - does the loss of range result from the signal being less focused/coherent, or less powerful? Or maybe they have different 'frequencies' that travel at different rates or speeds. I could think of alot of 'reasons' that may or may not be the case, and alot if it will depend on how the FTL comms work in universe. Note that wouldn't rule out relays or networks as you seem to suggest, but it would also mean they can do 'direct' point to point transmissions as well, given the right circumstances.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Batman »

I don't see why the loss of power generation should affect communications at the receiving end really as opposed to the transmitting station, but since we know jack all about how hyperwave/sub-ether communications work, it's possible (though wasn't one of the things that made the Foundation special the fact that they did not only retain, but improve on Empire level technology?)
As for Riose, as he still had Imperial Era ships at his disposal, might he have used some of them as relays? While I don't think we're ever told anything to that effect, it's possible that some of those ships, while being useless in a fight thanks to decayed guns, motors or screens, could still be gainfully employed in such a fashion as long as their long-range communications were still up to specs.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by chornedsnorkack »

The fleet of Bel Riose would at that poing have had small ships spread out between Siwenna and Foundation, which could have served as relays for ultrawave transmission. Also they had landed garrisons in Periphery, which could have included ultrawave relays.

But we have the problems about the practicability of travel through politically disunited Periphery. Bel Riose spent 1 month at Foundation. His absence of 4 months meant 3 months travel there and back. Probably rather longer time to travel there - he did not know exactly where he was bound although the last viceroy had left some records, nor did he know the conditions in the regions in between such as which of the Periphery kingdoms were hospitable, which were not, where he needed visas... while on his return he knew the way already.

During Ist Crisis, lord Dorwin arrived on Terminus 2 weeks after Pirenne called the meeting of Board of Trustees to announce his coming, and 2 and a half months after Anacreon rebellion. This does not tell much about the travel time - he must have been sent after the news of Anacreon rebellion, but may have been on his way when he decided the detour to Terminus.

But a point is - while Dorwin travelled during the fall of Periphery, when the routes were still open, Lord Chancellor of Empire inspired awe and many Periphery regions would have been holding their breath to see whether lord Dorwin was going to be accompanied or followed by Imperial cruisers, the separation of Periphery had become status quo in a hundred year. No one of the many Periphery kingdoms that Bel Riose travelled through did intercept the few suspicious ships trespassing through their space.

As for the Viceroy of Siwenna - note that somehow, the 5 giant warships he sent to Korell - again, trespassing across many other independent kingdoms on the way through. While these independent kingdoms would have been powerless to resist - Bel Riose was able to conquer many planets on his way to Foundation, the viceroy of Siwenna could have done the same, but chose not to - the passage of giant atomic ships did not cause panic and general alert in these independent kingdoms. Of course, the scouts and messengers to find out overall political situation, pick Korell, of all Periphery kingdoms, and negotiate the marriage also went through without alerting the neighbours being trespassed.

It also is highly odd that Mallow wandered to Siwenna - out of all the viceroyalties on the border of Periphery.

Or that none of these other viceroys had the same smart idea.

Also, the scouting trip of Mallow to Empire - it was so easy and fast. Many of the Merchants could have done the same. If they thought Empire no longer existed - Hari Seldon did tell it did to hundreds of witnesses after Second Crisis, but as far as they knew it might have fallen in the next 75 years - the densely settled worlds of inner Galaxy may have been expected to offer relatively wealthy markets even after the presumed fall of Empire.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

20. Conspirator
The city's sullen nighttime quiet, the darkened palace, intruder-occupied, were symbolic enough, but Captain Han Pritcher, just within the outer gate of the palace, with the tiny nuclear bomb under his tongue, refused to understand.
[...]
In the garden, Captain Pritcher consulted the radometer in the palm of his hand. The inner warning field was still in operation, and he waited. Half an hour remained to the life of the nuclear bomb in his mouth. He rolled it gingerly with his tongue.
The radometer died into an ominous darkness and the captain advanced quickly.
So far, matters had progressed well.
He reflected objectively that the life of the nuclear bomb was his as well; that its death was his death - and the Mule's death.
[...]
The small closed door of a private room was before him. Behind that door must be the mutant who had beaten the unbeatable. He was early - the bomb had ten minutes of life in it.
Five of these passed, and still in all the world there was no sound. The Mule had five minutes to live - So had Captain Pritcher-
He stepped forward on sudden impulse. The plot could no longer fail. When the bomb went, the palace would go with it - all the palace. A door between - ten yards between - was nothing. But he wanted to see the Mule as they died together.
In a last, insolent gesture, he thundered upon the door.
And it opened and let out the blinding light.
Captain Pritcher staggered, then caught himself. The solemn man, standing in the center of the small room before a suspended fish bowl, looked up mildly.
His uniform was a somber black, and as he tapped the bowl in an absent gesture, it bobbed quickly and the feather-finned, orange and vermilion fish within darted wildly.
He said, "Come in, captain!"
To the captain's quivering tongue the little metal globe beneath was swelling ominously - a physical impossibility, the captain knew. But it was in its last minute of life.
The uniformed man said, "You had better spit out the foolish pellet and free yourself for speech. It won't blast."
The minute passed and with a slow, sodden motion the captain bent his head and dropped the silvery globe into his palm. With a furious force it was flung against the wall. It rebounded with a tiny, sharp clangor, gleaming harmlessly as it flew.
Pritcher decides to go down swinging, using the miniature nuclear bomb described above in an attempt to blow up the Mule.

The weapon itself is of interest. It is a very small device that can be hidden under a man's tongue, doesn't weigh much at all, contains a timed detonator and has an explosive payload powerful enough to blow to smithereens a palatial residence. This last part implies rather high energy densities, somewhere between hundreds of megajoules to tens of gigajoules per cubic centimeter. This is also not some kind of cutting edge device, but rather a home-made explosive crafted by the members of a small conspiracy (though one with access to nuclear components).

As for the method used to deactivate the bomb, it might be something as simple as sabotage in the making (members of the conspiracy were already in the Mule's payroll at this point in time) or another use of the Mule's nuclear inhibitor.
Shouldering his way along and through the leaderless mob that was already leaving the city - destination unknown.
Making blindly for the various rat holes which were - which had once been - the headquarters for a democratic underground that for eighty years had been failing and dwindling.
And the rat holes were empty.
The Mule was surprisingly thorough. Not only did he get members of the political elite, but he also compromised and defanged the underground democratic opposition.
The next day, black alien ships were momentarily visible in the sky, sinking gently into the clustered buildings of the nearby city. Captain Han Pritcher felt an accumulation of helplessness and despair drown him.
Seeing that this seems to mean that the Mule's ships were hidden by the skyline of Terminus City, we probably aren't dealing with huge ships. Not up to Imperial standards, at least.
The room was well-kept, but not lavish. In one comer stood a decorative book-film projector, which to the captain's military eyes might easily have been a camouflaged blaster of respectable caliber. The projecting lens covered the doorway, and such could be remotely controlled.
The Fox followed his bearded guest's eyes, and smiled tightly. He said, "Yes! But only in the days of Indbur and his lackey-hearted vampires. It wouldn't do much against the Mule, eh? Nothing would help against the Mule. Are you hungry?"
[...]
His quick words had a jovial content, but were said in anything but a jovial tone - and his eyes were coldly thoughtful. He sat down opposite the captain and said, "There'll be nothing but a burn-spot left where you're sitting, if there's anything about you I don't like. Know that?"
Blasters can be adjusted for remote control and one "of respectable caliber" apparently can completely vaporize an adult human male.

Seeing that this kind of thing requires levels of firepower that are utterly wacky for hand-held weaponry, it is probably some kind of disintegration mechanism at work here.
The captain had finished eating. He leaned back, "If you have no organization here, where can I find one? The Foundation may have surrendered, but I haven't."
"So! You can't wander forever, captain. Men of the Foundation must have travel permits to move from town to town these days. You know that? Also identity cards. You have one? Also, all officers of the old Navy have been requested to report to the nearest occupation headquarters. That's you, eh?"
"Yes." The captain's voice was hard. "Do you think I run through fear. I was on Kalgan not long after its fall to the Mule. Within a month, not one of the old warlord's officers was at large, because they were the natural military leaders of any revolt. It's always been the underground's knowledge that no revolution can be successful without the control of at least part of the Navy. The Mule evidently knows it, too."
The Fox nodded thoughtfully, "Logical enough. The Mule is thorough."
Simple, logic and methodical. The Mule really is pretty efficient in this whole conquest business.
"You want my advice?"
"If you have any."
"I don't know what the Mule's policy is or what he intends, but skilled workers have not been harmed so far. Pay rates have gone up. Production of all sorts of nuclear weapons is booming."
"Yes? Sounds like a continuing offensive."
"I don't know. The Mule's a subtle son of a drab, and he may merely be soothing the workers into submission. If Seldon couldn't figure him out with all his psychohistory, I'm not going to try. But you're wearing work clothes. That suggests something, eh?"
"I'm not a skilled worker."
"You've had a military course in nucleics, haven't you?"
"Certainly."
"That's enough. The Nuclear-Field Bearings, Inc., is located here in town. Tell them you've had experience. The stinkers who used to run the factory for Indbur are still running it - for the Mule. They won't ask questions, as long as they need more workers to make their fat hunk. They'll give you an identity card and you can apply for a room in the Corporation's housing district. You might start now."
[...]
For two months, Captain Pritcher wore leaden aprons and heavy face shields, till all things military had been frictioned off his outer bearing. He was a laborer, who collected his pay, spent his evenings in town, and never discussed politics.
For two months, he did not see the Fox.
And then, one day, a man stumbled past his bench, and there was a scrap of paper in his pocket. The word "Fox" was on it. He tossed it into the nuclear chamber, where it vanished in a sightless puff, sending the energy output up a millimicrovolt - and turned back to his work.


I've seen folks argue that this somehow obviously proves that the Foundation uses fission. And never mind that Foundation explicitly states that use of fissile materials is paleolithic stuff.

*shrugs*

As far as I can tell, the lead apron and face shield only shows that Pritcher is working in a high rad environment.
The captain said, "It's a fundamental error. You live in the exploded past. For eighty years our organization has been waiting for the correct historical moment. We've been blinded by Seldon's psychohistory, one of the first propositions of which is that the individual does not count, does not make history, and that complex social and economic factors override him, make a puppet out of him." He adjusted his cards carefully, appraised their value and said, as he put out a token. "Why not kill the Mule?"
"Well, now, and what good would that do?" demanded the man at his left, fiercely.
"You see," said the captain, discarding two cards, "that's the attitude. What is one man - out of quadrillions. The Galaxy won't stop rotating because one man dies. But the Mule is not a man, he is a mutant. Already, he had upset Seldon's plan, and if you'll stop to analyze the implications, it means that he - one man - one mutant - upset all of Seldon's psychohistory. If he had never lived, the Foundation would not have fallen. If he ceased living, it would not remain fallen.
"Come, the democrats have fought the mayors and the traders for eighty years by connivery. Let's try assassination."
An interesting argument that would seem to explain why the democratic opposition has been so utterly ineffective in their campaign against the hereditary mayors, despite eighty years of dictatorship.
The captain said, slowly, "I've spent three months of thought on that with no solution. I came here and had it in five minutes." He glanced briefly at the man whose broad, pink melon of a face smiled from the place at his right. "You were once Mayor Indbur's chamberlain. I did not know you were of the underground,"
"Nor I, that you were."
"Well, then, in your capacity as chamberlain you periodically checked the working of the alarm system of the palace."
[...]
The man who had once been chamberlain picked up his cards, singly. "Sorry, captain. I checked the alarm system, but it was routine. I know nothing about it."
"I expected that, but your mind carries an eidetic memory of the controls if it can be probed deeply enough - with a psychic probe."
The chamberlain's ruddy face paled suddenly and sagged. The cards in his hand crumpled under sudden fist-pressure, "A psychic probe?"
"You needn't worry," said the captain, sharply. "I know how to use one. It will not harm you past a few days' weakness. And if it did, it is the chance you take and the price you pay. There are some among us, no doubt, who from the controls of the alarm could determine the wavelength combinations. There are some among us who could manufacture a small bomb under time-control and I myself will carry it to the Mule."
Apparently the Psychic Probe can even in the hands of a relatively skilled user cause days of weakness as a side-effect, but it can be used to obtain information that a subject only remembers somewhat vaguely/subconsciously.
"I understand," reasoned the viceroy, "that only three of the Independent Trading Worlds yet resist. They will not last much longer. It will be the last of all Foundation forces. You still hold out."
"Yes."
"Yet you won't. A voluntary recruit is the, most efficient. But the other kind will do. Unfortunately, the Mule is absent. He leads the fight, as always, against the resisting Traders. But he is in continual contact with us. You will not have to wait long."
"For what?"
"For your conversion.
"The Mule," said the captain, frigidly, "will find that beyond his ability."
"But he won't. I was not beyond it. You don't recognize me? Come, you were on Kalgan, so you have seen me. I wore a monocle, a fur-lined scarlet robe, a high-crowned hat-"
The captain stiffened in dismay. "You were the warlord of Kalgan."
"Yes. And now I am the loyal viceroy of the Mule. You see, he is persuasive."
Waste not, want not. And the mind control even improved the guy's fashion sense!

21. Interlude In Space.
The blockade was run successfully. In the vast volume of space, not all the navies ever in existence could keep their watch in tight proximity. Given a single ship, a skillful pilot, and a moderate degree of luck, and there are holes and to spare.
With cold-eyed calm, Toran drove a protesting vessel from the vicinity of one star to that of another. If the neighborhood of great mass made an interstellar jump erratic and difficult, it also made the enemy detection devices useless or nearly so.
And once the girdle of ships had been passed the inner sphere of dead space, through whose blockaded sub-ether no message could be driven, was passed as well. For the first time in over three months Toran felt unisolated.
Some interesting factoids in these lines:

1) You can hide from Foundation detection devices by staying close to great masses. This vaguely suggests that the technology is gravimetric in nature.
2) Though jumping in a gravity well makes jumps erratic, it is apparently possible to make jumps that end near other gravity wells.
3) It is possible to create communication blackouts in entire stellar regions through massive sub-etheric jamming.
"Rapid cruiser squadrons under Lieutenant General Sammin hit back hard today at the task force striking out from Iss-" The carefully expressionless face of the speaker upon the screen faded into the blackness of a space cut through by the quick swaths of ships reeling across emptiness in deadly battle. The voice continued through the soundless thunder
"The most striking action of the battle was the subsidiary combat of the heavy cruiser Cluster against three enemy ships of the 'Nova' class-"
The screen's view veered and closed in. A great ship sparked and one of the frantic attackers glowed angrily, twisted out of focus, swung back and rammed. The Cluster bowed wildly and survived the glancing blow that drove the attacker off in twisting reflection.
The newsman's smooth unimpassioned delivery continued to the last blow and the last hulk.
*shrugs*

We don't know how long the scene lasts, the masses involved or the relative speeds.

Nevertheless, that the Cluster is described as "bowing wildly" suggests good agility for sublight maneuvering, that it bothered to maneuver like that suggests that a succesful ramming would have been bad for the vessel and the whole thing suggests fighting at very close ranges.
The stars begin to cluster closely when the core of the Galaxy is penetrated. Gravitational fields begin to overlap at intensities sufficient to introduce perturbations in an interstellar jump that can not be overlooked.
Toran became aware of that when a jump landed their ship in the full glare of a red giant which clutched viciously, and whose grip was loosed, then wrenched apart, only after twelve sleepless, soul-battering hours.
Gravity disrupts hyperspace trajectories, which we already knew.

As for the incident with the red giant, no clue of how to interpret it. "Full glare" would suggest close proximity to the star, but it is not as if the gravitatory pull of a red giant should be a problem for a vessel that can generate multi-g accelerations without major issues. Any help?
With charts limited in scope, and an experience not at all fully developed, either operationally or mathematically, Toran resigned himself to days of careful plotting between jumps.
It became a community project of a sort. Ebling Mis checked Toran's mathematics and Bayta tested possible routes, by the various generalized methods, for the presence of real solutions. Even Magnifico was put to work on the calculating machine for routine computations, a type of work, which, once explained, was a source of great amusement to him and at which he was surprisingly proficient.
Self-explanatory. Here we have a good example of how (and why) effective speed decreases dramatically when you move outside the well charted routes.
So at the end of a month, or nearly, Bayta was able to survey the red line that wormed its way through the ship's trimensional model of the Galactic Lens halfway to its center, and say with satiric relish, "You know what it looks like. It looks like a ten-foot earth-worm with a terrific case of indigestion. Eventually, you'll land us back in Haven."
"I will," growled Toran, with a fierce rustle of his chart, "if you don't shut up."
"And at that," continued Bayta, "there is probably a route fight through, straight as a meridian of longitude."
"Yeah? Well, in the first place, dimwit, it probably took five hundred ships five hundred years to work out that route by hit-and-miss, and my lousy half-credit charts don't give it. Besides, maybe those straight routes are a good thing to avoid. They're probably choked up with ships. And besides-"
Another good section for calculation of ballpark figures for superluminal travel.

After approximately a month of travel through the boondocks, starting at the very edge of the galaxy (Haven's location), the ship is at this point half-way to the galactic center. Therefore, we have a trip of 25,000-30,000 light years in approximately 30 days, under poor conditions. This gives us a result around 300,000 c, which meshes pretty well for previous figures.
The lines of anxiety puckered the clown's face and tightened the skin whitely over the enormous bridge of his nose. "The instruments are behaving queerly, sir. I have not, in the knowledge of my ignorance, touched anything-"
In two seconds, Toran was in the pilot room. He said quietly to Magnifico, "Wake up Ebling Mis. Have him come down here."
He said to Bayta, who was trying to get a basic order back to her hair by use of her fingers, "We've been detected, Bay."
"Detected?" And Bayta's arms dropped. "By whom?"
"Galaxy knows," muttered Toran, "but I imagine by someone with blasters already ranged and trained."
He sat down and in a low voice was already sending into the sub-ether the ship's identification code.
Unclear whether this is the instruments reacting to someone pinging the ship with something or just someone hailing them after locating the vessel.
And Toran replied, grimly, "That was no Filian ship - and we're not leaving for a while. Come in here."
They gathered about him.
He said, whitely, "That was a Foundation ship, and those were the Mule's men aboard."
Ebling bent to pick up the cigar he had dropped. He said, "Here? We're fifteen thousand parsecs from the Foundation. "
"And we're here. What's to prevent them from making the same trip. Galaxy, Ebling, don't you think I can tell ships apart? I saw their engines, and that's enough for me. I tell you it was a Foundation engine in a Foundation ship."
This scene happens right after the previous one, so the timeframe still applies to the distance given here. Follows that the Mule's vessel covered ~49000 light years in a month, which means a travel speed of ~596.000 c. Also in line with previous figures.
"And how did they get here?" asked Bayta, logically. "What are the chances of a random meeting of two given ships in space?"
"What's that to do with it?" demanded Toran, hotly. "It would only show we've been followed."
"Followed?" hooted Bayta. "Through hyperspace?"
Ebling Mis interposed wearily, "That can be done - given a good ship and a great pilot. But the possibility doesn't impress me."
"I haven't been masking my trail," insisted Toran. "I've been building up take-off speed on the straight. A blind man could have calculated our route."
"The blazes he could," cried Bayta. "With the cockeyed jumps you are making, observing our initial direction didn't mean a thing. We came out of the jump wrong-end forwards more than once."
Some more is said in Foundation's Edge about the mechanics of hyperspace tracking. The most noteworthy here is that a ship's sublight vector at the moment of jumping determines its hyperspatial trajectory.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

Simon_Jester wrote:Hundreds of planets full of aristos could supply a LOT of tourism, you know... That's a pretty big upper class even if they only make up 0.1 or 0.01% of the population.
However, Kalgan is not just for the high and mighty. It specifically caters to tourists of the middle classes and Pritcher resided in the planet for a while under the assumed identity of a retired trader.
Many of the devices Anacreon owned in 50 F.E. would have been 'legacy' technology from Imperial times, probably equipment that is slowly falling apart and being cannibalized for spare parts.
Hardin mentions as much. In particular, he mentions that they had managed to do as much as they had by the time of the Second Crisis thanks to the "still workable relics" left behind by the Empire.
Boeing 757 wrote:I'm pretty sure that they relay their hyperwave transmissions given that in Forward the Foundation Seldon communicates on Trantor in real time with an Imperial Admiral replying from Anacreon (~30,000 lightyears distance), and then a couple of decades later Terminus is not able to pick up or broadcast messages outside of the Periphery region. It's possible that once the Foundation and Periphery provinces lost their grasp on more advanced forms of power generation, they found themselves unable to propagate their transmissions beyond 500 lightyears as mentioned in the original Foundation book.
While a relay network is a possibility, it is also possible that Seldon had better equipment to work with in Trantor than the small communicator mounted in Devers' tiny ship.
Connor MacLeod wrote:Or maybe they have different 'frequencies' that travel at different rates or speeds.
Like hyperjumping, hyperwave communication appears to be effectively instantaneous. Or, at least, so high that it is entirely possible to have real-time conversations with someone in the other side of the galaxy.
Note that wouldn't rule out relays or networks as you seem to suggest, but it would also mean they can do 'direct' point to point transmissions as well, given the right circumstances.
Riose mentions use of tight beam transmissions for military purposes, so I think that direct point to point transmission has reasonable backing.
It also is highly odd that Mallow wandered to Siwenna - out of all the viceroyalties on the border of Periphery.
Seeing that the local viceroy was the one supplying the ships, it likely was the closest province/sector to the Korell Republic. Mallow had outdated star charts, so he probably tried his luck with the sectors closest to Korell territory, until he found a planet still under imperial control.
Also, the scouting trip of Mallow to Empire - it was so easy and fast. Many of the Merchants could have done the same.
Thing is that the Traders aren't free agents as such. They apparently have to meet quotas in exchange for merchandise and until Mallow are politically subordinate to Terminus natives and Scientism, so they wouldn't be likely to go wandering far from home to do business.

After Mallow, of course, no Foundation agent would dare poke the sleeping dragon by showing up in Imperial territory.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by chornedsnorkack »

Murazor wrote:
"Even so. There are other armies and other leaders. You must go deeper. There is this Brodrig, for instance - no one more than he has the ear of the Emperor. He could demand hundreds of ships where Riose must struggle with ten. I know him by reputation."
"That so? What about him?" The trader's eyes lost in frustration what they gained in sharp interest.
"You want a pocket outline? He's a low-born rascal who has by unfailing flattery tickled the whims of the Emperor. He's well-hated by the court aristocracy, vermin themselves, because he can lay claim to neither family nor humility. He is the Emperor's adviser in all things, and the Emperor's too in the worst things. He is faithless by choice but loyal by necessity. There is not a man in the Empire as subtle in villainy or as crude in his pleasures. And they say there is no way to the Emperor's favor but through him; and no way to his, but through infamy."
"Wow!" Devers pulled thoughtfully at his neatly trimmed beard. "And he's the old boy the Emperor sent out here to keep an eye on Riose. Do you know I have an idea?"
"I do now."
"Suppose this Brodrig takes a dislike to our young Army's Delight?"
"He probably has already. He's not noted for a capacity for liking."
"Suppose it gets really bad. The Emperor might hear about it, and Riose might be in trouble."
"Uh-huh. Quite likely. But how do you propose to get that to happen?"
"I don't know. I suppose he could be bribed?"
The patrician laughed gently. "Yes, in a way, but not in the manner you bribed the sergeant - not with a pocket freezer. And even if you reach his scale, it wouldn't be worth it. There's probably no one so easily bribed, but he lacks even the fundamental honesty of honorable corruption. He doesn't stay bribed; not for any sum. Think of something else."
And Ducem Barr turns out to be hugely well informed about the Emperor's secretary, who proves instrumental through his actions in the resolution of the ongoing crisis, even though he later claims that he has never been in Trantor.

Nothing suspicious here. Move along, citizen.
That one is nothing suspicious. Emperor´s secretary is the National Politics of the Empire. An intelligent man with some leisure time and the basic means to collect gossip would be informed because that is the most important news there is.
Murazor wrote:
"My honest tradesman," he said, "I have a Psychic Probe of my own, one that ought to suit you peculiarly well. You see this-"
And between thumb and forefinger, held negligently, were intricately designed, pink-and-yellow rectangles which were most definitely obvious in identity.
Devers said so. "It looks like cash," he said.
"Cash it is - and the best cash of the Empire, for it is backed by my estates, which are more extensive than the Emperor's own. A hundred thousand credits. All here! Between two fingers! Yours!"
Which seems to suggest that the Trantorian Empire doesn't work with fiat money anymore. That or there are now a bunch of credits of different value, all of which are more or less broadly accepted.
Remember USA between 1837 and 1862. The Federal Government coined gold, silver and copper - and nickel silver after 1857 - but refused to issue paper money, and states are by constitution forbidden to make money. No national banks existed.

The paper money in circulation, and quite a lot was, was issued by state chartered banks. And it was a debt obligation of the specific banks. Many of them were sound. Many, however, were "wildcat banks". If the issuing bank was bankrupt, or expected to go bankrupt, its paper money was worthless.

Here, we have a rich landowner printing money - to represent his debt obligations backed by his property. One wonders whether in case of his execution - which Ducem confidently predicted, and recipients of his money may have thought of - the bills would actually be honoured, or whether the government might confiscate the estates and NOT honour the debts "backed" by them?
Murazor wrote:
Devers kept his voice rock-steady. "With transmutation he controls the economy of the whole set-up of your Empire. Mineral holdings won't be worth a sneeze when Riose can make tungsten out of aluminum and iridium out of iron. An entire production system based on the scarcity of certain elements and the abundance of others is thrown completely out of whack. There'll be the greatest disjointment the Empire has ever seen, and only Riose will be able to stop it. And there is the question of this new power I mentioned, the use of which won't give Riose religious heebies.
"There's nothing that can stop him now. He's got the Foundation by the back of the neck, and once he's finished with it, he'll be Emperor in two years."
"So." Brodrig laughed lightly. "Iridium out of iron, that's what you said, isn't it? Come, I'll tell you a state secret. Do you know that the Foundation has already been in communication with the general?"
Devers' back stiffened.
"You look surprised. Why not? It seems logical now. They offered him a hundred tons of iridium a year to make peace. A hundred tons of iron converted to iridium in violation of their religious principles to save their necks. Fair enough, but no wonder our rigidly incorruptible general refused - when he can have the iridium and the Empire as well. And poor Cleon called him his one honest general. My bewhiskered merchant, you have earned your money."
Besides the hogwash that Devers says, which may or may not be partially true, I am mostly surprised because the Empire still seems to work with a resource scarcity economy, despite having easy access to the natural resources of an entire galaxy.
No surprise about that. The Empire has "easy" access to the natural resources of 20 million planets which are inhabitable, where people can work without spacesuits and excessive clothing. And the population of those 20 million worlds has adjusted to available resources long ago. Empire "may" have some access to resources of uninhabitable planets... but the population of habitable planets would have adjusted to the total accessible resources of habitable and uninhabitable planets combined.

What IS surprising is that Foundation has resource scarcity economy. The 4 Kingdoms had about 60 milliard people as of IInd Crisis. Foundation had just 5 million homes as of IIIrd. As soon as Hardin and Sermak pulled off their coup, the voters of Foundation would have been expected to vote to impose policies on 4 Kingdoms which first of all transported to Terminus more metals than Terminus ever needed. And then other assets. They were, after all, dispossessing the nobility of 4 Kingdoms. Collectively stepping in their shoes, what you get is 12 000 people of 4 Kingdoms for each household on Foundation - as of 80 FE, more like 120 000 subjects for each Foundationeer. They could have imported labour-intensive goods, cheap domestic workers... optionally (depending on the negotiating power of their wives and in-laws) including duties in bed.
Murazor wrote:
"Well, that will be seen shortly. It is what I came here for. For instance, your ship will be searched for a personal force-shield. You have never worn one; yet all soldiers of the Foundation do. It will be significant evidence that there is information you do not choose to give me. Right?"
If I remember correctly, the global Foundation KIA figure of the Riose War is noted to be around half a million casualties. Some of these will have been crew of destroyed starships, but there is a definite implication here of the Imperials taking down Foundation ground troops, regardless of the shields. Wonder how they do that, whether they just keep throwing men into the meatgrinder until the shield runs out of juice or if they just call in airstrikes or such when they encounter shielded foes.
Half a million. Yep.
Quite reasonable number for a hard-fought, bloody war of a country that had 5 million total households as of 155 FE and, say, 10 millions as of 200 FE.

But remember that Bel Riose conquered outer planets of Loris, and eventually capital of Loris. We do not hear how far they got in other three Kingdoms, or Askone and Korell, or the other kingdoms Foundation had annexed since.

We are speaking of tens of milliards of people on conquered planets.

As Bel Riose tells, planets are hard to take and when taken such a rebellion rises that they are harder to keep than take - but they were kept and taken.

And that means milliards of people who fought and died for Foundation.

Of course, only these 500 000 who are from Terminus itself are human....
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Simon_Jester »

Murazor wrote:
Simon_Jester wrote:Hundreds of planets full of aristos could supply a LOT of tourism, you know... That's a pretty big upper class even if they only make up 0.1 or 0.01% of the population.
However, Kalgan is not just for the high and mighty. It specifically caters to tourists of the middle classes and Pritcher resided in the planet for a while under the assumed identity of a retired trader.
A trader of the Foundation (or the worlds immediately around Terminus, which by now are probably quite industrialized and refined) would probably have personal wealth that makes them an aristocrat by galactic standards.

Kalgan's status is a good indicator of what's possible for the middle class of a society whose technology nears the heights of the possible for the Galactic Empire or the Foundation. Not necessarily for the middle of the Fall itself, which has already in effect receded in Foundation-influenced space by the time the Mule shows up.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

Murazor wrote:
The blockade was run successfully. In the vast volume of space, not all the navies ever in existence could keep their watch in tight proximity. Given a single ship, a skillful pilot, and a moderate degree of luck, and there are holes and to spare.
With cold-eyed calm, Toran drove a protesting vessel from the vicinity of one star to that of another. If the neighborhood of great mass made an interstellar jump erratic and difficult, it also made the enemy detection devices useless or nearly so.
And once the girdle of ships had been passed the inner sphere of dead space, through whose blockaded sub-ether no message could be driven, was passed as well. For the first time in over three months Toran felt unisolated.
Some interesting factoids in these lines:

1) You can hide from Foundation detection devices by staying close to great masses. This vaguely suggests that the technology is gravimetric in nature.
Considering that they have a specialized sensory device called a "massometer" invented thousands of years before Trantor's rise, and whose primary function is to detect a ship's mass, I must agree. Ironically enough, it bears a striking similarity in ability and function to the crystal grav-field traps encountered in the Star Wars EU:
The Stars, Like Dust wrote: “…You know there is a such a thing as a massometer which will detect ships in space.”
“Yes, yes.”
“It is very sensitive to gravitational effects. You know what I mean?”
“Oh yes. Everything has gravity.” Hinrik was leaning toward Aratap, his hands gripping one another nervously.
“That’s good enough. Now naturally the massometer can only be used when the ship is close, you know. Less than a million miles away or so. Also, it has to be a reasonable distance away from any planet, because if it isn’t, all you can detect is the planet, which is much bigger.”
“and has much more gravity.”
“Exactly,” said Aratap, and Hinrik looked pleased.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Batman »

Technically the Crystal Gravfield Trap would be a massively more precise iteration of this technology, as it was assumed to be able to detect asteroids in close and deteriorating orbits around Coruscant in TTT.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

Murazor wrote:20. Conspirator
The city's sullen nighttime quiet, the darkened palace, intruder-occupied, were symbolic enough, but Captain Han Pritcher, just within the outer gate of the palace, with the tiny nuclear bomb under his tongue, refused to understand.
[...]
In the garden, Captain Pritcher consulted the radometer in the palm of his hand. The inner warning field was still in operation, and he waited. Half an hour remained to the life of the nuclear bomb in his mouth. He rolled it gingerly with his tongue.
The radometer died into an ominous darkness and the captain advanced quickly.
So far, matters had progressed well.
He reflected objectively that the life of the nuclear bomb was his as well; that its death was his death - and the Mule's death.
[...]
The small closed door of a private room was before him. Behind that door must be the mutant who had beaten the unbeatable. He was early - the bomb had ten minutes of life in it.
Five of these passed, and still in all the world there was no sound. The Mule had five minutes to live - So had Captain Pritcher-
He stepped forward on sudden impulse. The plot could no longer fail. When the bomb went, the palace would go with it - all the palace. A door between - ten yards between - was nothing. But he wanted to see the Mule as they died together.
In a last, insolent gesture, he thundered upon the door.
And it opened and let out the blinding light.
Captain Pritcher staggered, then caught himself. The solemn man, standing in the center of the small room before a suspended fish bowl, looked up mildly.
His uniform was a somber black, and as he tapped the bowl in an absent gesture, it bobbed quickly and the feather-finned, orange and vermilion fish within darted wildly.
He said, "Come in, captain!"
To the captain's quivering tongue the little metal globe beneath was swelling ominously - a physical impossibility, the captain knew. But it was in its last minute of life.
The uniformed man said, "You had better spit out the foolish pellet and free yourself for speech. It won't blast."
The minute passed and with a slow, sodden motion the captain bent his head and dropped the silvery globe into his palm. With a furious force it was flung against the wall. It rebounded with a tiny, sharp clangor, gleaming harmlessly as it flew.
Pritcher decides to go down swinging, using the miniature nuclear bomb described above in an attempt to blow up the Mule.

The weapon itself is of interest. It is a very small device that can be hidden under a man's tongue, doesn't weigh much at all, contains a timed detonator and has an explosive payload powerful enough to blow to smithereens a palatial residence. This last part implies rather high energy densities, somewhere between hundreds of megajoules to tens of gigajoules per cubic centimeter. This is also not some kind of cutting edge device, but rather a home-made explosive crafted by the members of a small conspiracy (though one with access to nuclear components).

As for the method used to deactivate the bomb, it might be something as simple as sabotage in the making (members of the conspiracy were already in the Mule's payroll at this point in time) or another use of the Mule's nuclear inhibitor.
I have two questions about this happenstance.

1. How big was the Mayor's palace?
2. When the narrator calls the weapon a "nuclear bomb," it raises some interesting issues. Is it even possible for a bomb of that size to be based on nuclear fission or fusion (at least as we understand it today)? And if so...what kind of damage could a nuclear bomb of that size be expected to bring about?
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Simon_Jester »

If you had a technique for preventing radioactive decay and stopping a sample from going critical, some of the transuranic elements have very small critical masses. Californium comes to mind. You might be able to get a blast equivalent to something like a one-ton bomb in a mouth-sized capsule that way, but you'd need technomagic to keep the bomb from killing you with radiation poisoning.

I think.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

The reason that I ask is because I get the sense that when these books were written in the 1950s Asimov had but a fleeting concept of what nuclear technology entailed, and so he butchered the science behind it horribly as a result. He admits to such by himself, of course, but be that as it may if we suspend our disbelief then it presents us the riddle of what exactly "nucleics" and "hyperatomics" are, and more specifically how much power they can produce. Despite being called nuclear, their stuff seems to incorporate capabilities and properties unnatural to our understanding of modern fission and fusion. Perhaps they use the term "nuclear" in a much broader sense to describe some other process obviously unfamiliar to us.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Simon_Jester »

Boeing, it is very clear to me that your last sentence is correct.

Another way to look at it is that many of these "nucleic" devices are to OUR concept of "nuclear power" as modern "electronic" devices are to an 1870s concept of "electricity." Telling someone that an iPad is an electronic device would make them feel very confused. To them, electricity is arcing and sparking and big copper coils, not a magic slab of glass that shows pictures of whatever you want and remembers more information than a hundred file cabinets!

Likewise, to us "nuclear power" is huge bombs and huge reactors, not walnut-sized power storage and bombs that fit under the tongue.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

Boeing 757 wrote:I have two questions about this happenstance.

1. How big was the Mayor's palace?
Unknown. The building contained a small internal garden, a large office, the Mayor's residence and some other dependencies, but we are not given any kind of good detail.

The best hint is that Pritcher at one point stops in the garden, because the alarm is still online. Right after he checks that the bomb has still half an hour before detonation, the alarm goes down and he starts walking towards the room of the Mule (actually the viceroy slash former warlord of Kalgan). He arrives in front of the door to the said room with ten minutes to spare.

So... a building large enough for someone who is trying to be sneaky to walk for twenty minutes?
2. When the narrator calls the weapon a "nuclear bomb," it raises some interesting issues. Is it even possible for a bomb of that size to be based on nuclear fission or fusion (at least as we understand it today)? And if so...what kind of damage could a nuclear bomb of that size be expected to bring about?
My knowledge of nuclear physics is "browses wikipedia" level, but what little I've been able to find suggests that even californium 252 (which of those listed by wiki appears to have the lowest critical mass) requires a ball several centimeters in diameter and several kilograms in weight which is much too big in both senses to satisfy the requirements of Pritcher's tiny bomb.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

22. Death On Neotrantor.
Two parsecs away, the sun of Old Trantor still shone and the Galaxy's Imperial Capital of the previous century still cut through space in the silent and eternal repetition of its orbit.
Men even inhabited Old Trantor. Not many - a hundred million, perhaps, where fifty years before, forty billions had swarmed. The huge, metal world was in jagged splinters. The towering thrusts of the multi-towers from the single world-girdling base were torn and empty - still bearing the original blastholes and firegut - shards of the Great Sack of forty years earlier.
[...]
For centuries would yet pass before the mighty works of fifty generations of humans would decay past use. Only the declining powers of men, themselves, rendered them useless now.
The millions left after the billions had died tore up the gleaming metal base of the planet and exposed soil that had not felt the touch of sun in a thousand years.
Surrounded by the mechanical perfections of human efforts, encircled by the industrial marvels of mankind freed of the tyranny of environment - they returned to the land. In the huge traffic clearings, wheat and corn grew. In the shadow of the towers, sheep grazed.
A brief explanation concerning the transition from Imperial Trantor to the much humbler Hame of later novels.

Interestingly, despite any number of centuries of neglect because of the lack of maintenance, the Great Sack (which apparently wrecked the place most thoroughly) and fifty years of near total abandonment, it seems that the infrastructure is expected to remain in condition for use for several centuries. Reminds me of the power plants built to last "for eternity" from the previous book.
But Neotrantor existed - an obscure village of a planet drowned in the shadow of mighty Trantor, until a heart-throttled royal family, racing before the fire and flame of the Great Sack sped to it as its last refuge - and held out there, barely, until the roaring wave of rebellion subsided. There it ruled in ghostly splendor over a cadaverous remnant of Imperium.
Twenty agricultural worlds were a Galactic Empire!
Dagobert IX, ruler of twenty worlds of refractory squires and sullen peasants, was Emperor of the Galaxy, Lord of the Universe.
Dagobert IX had been twenty-five on the bloody day he arrived with his father upon Neotrantor. His eyes and mind were still alive with the glory and the power of the Empire that was. But his son, who might one day be Dagobert X, was born on Neotrantor.
Twenty worlds were all he knew.
The final remnant of the first Galactic Empire, now a barbarian kingdom as small as the Four Kingdoms were once. Though unconfirmed in the text, it is likely that the twenty worlds mentioned here were the ones that acted as Trantor's granary.
Jord Commason's open air car was the finest vehicle of its type on all Neotrantor - and, after all, justly so. It did not end with the fact that Commason was the largest landowner on Neotrantor. It began there. For in earlier days he had been the companion and evil genius of a young crown prince, restive in the dominating grip of a middle-aged emperor. And now he was the companion and still the evil genius of a middle-aged crown prince who hated and dominated an old emperor.
So Jord Commason, in his air car, which in mother-of-pearl finish and gold-and-lumetron ornamentation needed no coat of arms as owner's identification, surveyed the lands that were his, and the miles of rolling wheat that were his, and the huge threshers and harvesters that were his, and the tenant-farmers and machine-tenders that were his - and considered his problems cautiously.
The air-car has been mentioned a number of times as an existing conveyance, but I think this is the first one we see onscreen.

In other considerations, for all that the Empire is less than a shadow of what it was, it seems to remain more advanced than the barbarian Periphery kingdoms of the early Fall period. At the very least, there are signs of advanced technology in use (such as the air-cars) and somewhat extensive mechanization. Industrial feudalism, so to speak.
"And, sire, since it is well-known that the friend of a conqueror is but the last victim, it would be but a measure of honest self-defense. For there are such things as psychic probes, and here we have four Foundation brains. There is much about the Foundation it would be useful to know, much even about the Mule. And then the Mule's friendship would be a trifle the less overpowering."
Presumably, the psychic probes mentioned are old Imperial tech that still happen to work.
It was with an almost superstitious sense of symbolism that Commason found a Personal Capsule waiting for him in his private study when he returned. It had arrived by a wavelength known to few. Commason smiled a fat smile. The Mule's man was coming and the Foundation had indeed fallen.
Remember that one quote in Foundation about a message capsule being teleported by the Commdor of the Korell Republic to Mallow's ship?

Well, this seems to be something of the same kind. This message arrives well before the Mule's representatives reach Neotrantor and the mention of arrival through wavelengths kind of precludes it being something carried by a courier.
For a moment, Dagobert IX looked like an emperor indeed as he rose and stood stiff-backed while, one by one, his visitors retreated backward through the door
—to where twenty armed men intervened and locked a circle about them.
A hand-weapon flashed-
To Bayta, consciousness returned sluggishly, but without the "Where am I?" sensation. She remembered clearly the odd old man who called himself emperor, and the other men who waited outside. The arthritic tingle in her finger joints meant a stun pistol.
Effects of a non-lethal stun weapon in use in Neotrantor, though Bayta recognizes the signs (which tells us that stun guns in the Foundation must work along the same lines).
She opened her eyes, and Toran's, which were upon her, showed open relief. He said, fiercely, "This banditry will be answered by the emperor. Release us."
It dawned upon Bayta that her wrists and ankles were fastened to wall and floor by a tight attraction field.
Self-explanatory. Seeing that there is no mention anywhere of magnetized manacles or some such thing, it is perhaps some kind of small scale manipulation of gravity.
Magnifico drew his fingers in rapid, rhythmic jumps from end to end of the multikeyed instrument - and a sharp, gliding rainbow of light jumped across the room. A low, soft tone sounded - throbbing, tearful. It lifted in sad laughter, and underneath it there sounded a dull tolling.
The darkness seemed to intensify and grow thick. Music reached Bayta through the muffled folds of invisible blankets. Gleaming light reached her from the depths as though a single candle glowed at the bottom of a pit.
Automatically, her eyes strained. The light brightened, but remained blurred. It moved fuzzily, in confused color, and the music was suddenly brassy, evil - flourishing in high crescendo. The light flickered quickly, in swift motion to the wicked rhythm. Something writhed within the light. Something with poisonous metallic scales writhed and yawned. And the music writhed and yawned with it.
Bayta struggled with a strange emotion and then caught herself in a mental gasp. Almost, it reminded her of the time in the Time Vault, of those last days on Haven. It was that horrible, cloying, clinging spiderweb of horror and despair. She shrunk beneath it oppressed.
The music dinned upon her, laughing horribly, and the writhing terror at the wrong end of the telescope in the small circle of light was lost as she turned feverishly away. Her forehead was wet and cold.
The music died. It must have lasted fifteen minutes, and a vast pleasure at its absence flooded Bayta. Light glared, and Magnifico's face was close to hers, sweaty, wild-eyed, lugubrious.
"My lady," he gasped, "how fare you?"
"Well enough," she whispered, "but why did you play like that?"
She became aware of the others in the room. Toran and Mis were limp and helpless against the wall, but her eyes skimmed over them. There was the prince, lying strangely still at the foot of the table. There was Commason, moaning wildly through an open, drooling mouth.
[...]
"What was it you played back there?"
The clown writhed, "I… I'd rather not say. I learned it once, and the Visi-Sonor is of an effect upon the nervous system most profound. Surely, it was an evil thing, and not for your sweet innocence, my lady."
"Oh, now, come, Magnifico. I'm not as innocent as that. Don't flatter so. Did I see anything like what they saw?"
"I hope not. I played it for them only. If you saw, it was but the rim of it - from afar."
"And that was enough. Do you know you knocked the prince out?"
Magnifico spoke grimly through a large, muffling piece of pie. "I killed him, my lady."
"What?" She swallowed, painfully.
"He was dead when I stopped, or I would have continued. I cared not for Commason. His greatest threat was death or torture. But, my lady, this prince looked upon you wickedly, and-" he choked in a mixture of indignation and embarrassment.
The Mule can use his powers of emotional manipulation to turn people into vegetables or outright kill, but it seems to be a difficult thing to do, seeing that he needed to spend some fifteen minutes playing the Visi-Sonor to get the effects he desired.

23. The Ruins Of Trantor.
The location of an objective upon the great world of Trantor presents a problem unique in the Galaxy. There are no continents or oceans to locate from a thousand miles distance. There are no rivers, lakes, and islands to catch sight of through the cloud rifts.
The metal-covered world was - had been - one colossal city, and only the old Imperial palace could be identified readily from outer space by a stranger. The Bayta circled the world at almost air-car height in repeated painful search.
So, for final confirmation, even the seas of Trantor (which do exist) are covered in metal for whatever reason.
From polar regions, where the icy coating of the metal spires were somber evidence of the breakdown or neglect of the weather-conditioning machinery, they worked southwards.
Self-explanatory. Mention of weather control technology which would have prevented the formation of ice in the past.
But it was unmistakable when it came. The gap in the metal coat of the planet was fifty miles. The unusual greenery spread over hundreds of square miles, inclosing the mighty grace of the ancient Imperial residences.
The Bayta hovered and slowly oriented itself. There were only the huge supercauseways to guide them. Long straight arrows on the map, smooth, gleaming ribbons there below them.
What the map indicated to be the University area was reached by dead reckoning, and upon the flat area of what once must have been a busy landing-field, the ship lowered itself.
This here is a tad odd.

Unless I remember wrongly, the Galactic Library where the Second Foundation has its HQ as of Foundation's Edge is mentioned in the Seldon prequels to be literally next to the Imperial palace itself.

One possible rationalization for this retcon is that instead of the Galactic Library proper, the guys here go check the library of the University of Streeling which IIRC is quite some distance away from the Imperial Palace and was the place where Seldon worked for most of his life.
"Sufficient; perhaps monotonous. We have fowl that supply eggs, and milk-yielders for our dairy products - but our meat supply rests upon our foreign trade."
"Trade." The young man seemed roused to sudden interest. "You trade then. But what do you export?"
"Metal," was the curt answer. "Look for yourself. We have an infinite supply, ready processed. They come from Neotrantor with ships, demolish an indicated area-increasing our growing space - and leave us in exchange meat, canned fruit, food concentrates, farm machinery and so on. They carry off the metal and both sides profit."
The start of the metal trade that eventually cleans the planet's entire surface, except for the Imperial Palace/Galactic Library complex which is preserved by influence of the Second Foundation.

24. Convert.
Magnifico taught himself how to use the projectors in the library reading room, and sat over adventure novels and romances to the point where he was almost as forgetful of meals and sleep as was Ebling Mis.
It'd be remarkable that the equipment still works after decades of it being abandoned... but it is commented that the Second Foundation saved the university, so they probably take care of doing some maintenance, too.

One does wonder where they were in this period, though, with the Mule living in their own world.
Pritcher accepted a cup, with a grave word of thanks. He looked at Toran with a clear strength as he sipped lightly. Then he said, "The Mule is a mutant. He can not be beaten in the very nature of the mutation-"
"Why? What is the mutation?" asked Toran, with sour humor. "I suppose you'll tell us now, eh?"
"Yes, I will. Your knowledge won't hurt him. You see - he is capable of adjusting the emotional balance of human beings. It sounds like a little trick, but it's quite unbeatable."
Bayta broke in, "The emotional balance?" She frowned, "Won't you explain that? I don't quite understand."
"I mean that it is an easy matter for him to instill into a capable general, say, the emotion of utter loyalty to the Mule and complete belief in the Mule's victory. His generals are emotionally controlled. They can not betray him; they can not weaken - and the control is permanent. His most capable enemies become his most faithful subordinates, the warlord of Kalgan surrenders his planet and becomes his viceroy for the Foundation."
"And you," added Bayta, bitterly, "betray your cause and become Mule's envoy to Trantor. I see!"
"I haven't finished. The Mule's gift works in reverse even more effectively. Despair is an emotion! At the crucial moment, keymen on the Foundation - keymen on Haven - despaired. Their worlds fell without too much struggle."
"Do you mean to say," demanded Bayta, tensely, "that the feeling I had in the Time Vault was the Mule juggling my emotional control."
"Mine, too. Everyone's. How was it on Haven towards the end?"
Bayta turned away.
Colonel Pritcher continued earnestly, "As it works for worlds, so it works for individuals. Can you fight a force which can make you surrender willingly when it so desires; can make you a faithful servant when it so desires?"
A brief description of the Mule's mental abilities, from the lips of a man who has been at the receiving end.
Bayta whirled on him. She had not touched her own tea. "But, by your very statement, your own emotions have been tampered with. You've got faith and belief in the Mule, an unnatural, a diseased faith in the Mule. Of what value are your opinions? You've lost all power of objective thought."
"You are wrong." Slowly, the colonel shook his head. "Only my emotions are fixed. My reason is as it always was. It may be influenced in a certain direction by my conditioned emotions, but it is not forced. And there are some things I can see more clearly now that I am freed of my earlier emotional trend.
As is revealed in Second Foundation, this is false. The emotional tampering is of such intensity, that even if a Converted individual could reason the need for the Mule's death they would be unable to do anything about it.

25. Death Of A Psychologist.
"Yes, he. He's discovered the Mule's mutation. He was here, Doctor, and told us."
"But that is nothing new. The Mule's mutation is straightened out." In honest astonishment, "Haven't I told you? Have I forgotten to tell you?"
"Forgotten to tell us what?" put in Toran, quickly.
"About the Mule's mutation, of course. He tampers with emotions. Emotional control! I haven't told you? Now what made me forget?" Slowly, he sucked in his under lip and considered.
Then, slowly, life crept into his voice and his eyelids lifted wide, as though his sluggish brain had slid onto a well-greased single track. He spoke in a dream, looking between the two listeners rather than at them. "It is really so simple. It requires no specialized knowledge. In the mathematics of psychohistory, of course, it works out promptly, in a third-level equation involving no more - Never mind that. It can be put into ordinary words - roughly - and have it make sense, which isn't usual with psychohistorical phenomena.
"Ask yourselves - What can upset Hari Seldon's careful scheme of history, eh?" He peered from one to the other with a mild, questioning anxiety. "What were Seldon's original assumptions? First, that there would be no fundamental change in human society over the next thousand years.
"For instance, suppose there were a major change in the Galaxy's technology, such as finding a new principle for the utilization of energy, or perfecting the study of electronic neurobiology. Social changes would render Seldon's original equations obsolete. But that hasn't happened, has it now?"
"Or suppose that a new weapon were to be invented by forces outside the Foundation, capable of withstanding all the Foundation's armaments. That might cause a ruinous deviation, though less certainly. But even that hasn't happened. The Mule's Nuclear Field-Depressor was a clumsy weapon and could be countered. And that was the only novelty he presented, poor as it was.
"But there was a second assumption, a more subtle one! Seldon assumed that human reaction to stimuli would remain constant. Granted that the first assumption held true, then the second must have broken down! Some factor must be twisting and distorting the emotional responses of human beings or Seldon couldn't have failed and the Foundation couldn't have fallen. And what factor but the Mule?
A good explanation about the two key assumptions of psycho-history and the ultimate reason for the existence of the Second Foundation. Since Seldon's predictions are only extrapolations based in known factors, rather than true foresight, you have to keep updating psychohistory when there are shifts in the technological paradigm.
"Very well - but, Ebling, doesn't he make you wonder? Do you hear me, Ebling? Doesn't he make you wonder?"
She jerked a chair close to his and stared at him as though to pull the answer out of his eyes.
Ebling Mis shook his head. "No. What do you mean?"
"I mean that Colonel Pritcher and you both say the Mule can condition the emotions of human beings. But are you sure of it? Isn't Magnifico himself a flaw in the theory?"
There was silence.
Bayta repressed a strong desire to shake the psychologist. "What's wrong with you, Ebling? Magnifico was the Mule's clown. Why wasn't he conditioned to love and faith? Why should he, of all those in contact with the Mule, hate him so.
"But… but he was conditioned. Certainly, Bay!" He seemed to gather certainty as he spoke. "Do you suppose that the Mule treats his clown the way he treats his generals? He needs faith and loyalty in the latter, but in his clown he needs only fear. Didn't you ever notice that Magnifico's continual state of panic is pathological in nature? Do you suppose it is natural for a human being to be as frightened as that all the time? Fear to such an extent becomes comic. It was probably comic to the Mule - and helpful, too, since it obscured what help we might have gotten earlier from Magnifico."
A good explanation, actually, and I wonder if the Mule himself had thought of this beforehand for his infiltration, in case folks discovered or identified his mental abilities.
"Foundation Number One was a world of physical scientists. It represented a concentration of the dying science of the Galaxy under the conditions necessary to make it live again. No psychologists were included. It was a peculiar distortion, and must have had a purpose. The usual explanation was that Seldon's psychohistory worked best where the individual working units - human beings - had no knowledge of what was coming, and could therefore react naturally to all situations. Do you follow me, my dear-"
"Yes, doctor."
"Then listen carefully. Foundation Number Two was a world of mental scientists. It was the mirror image of our world. Psychology, not physics, was king." Triumphantly. "You see?"
"I don't."
"But think, Bayta, use your head. Hari Seldon knew that his psychohistory could predict only probabilities, and not certainties. There was always a margin of error, and as time passed that margin increases in geometric progression. Seldon would naturally guard as well as he could against it. Our Foundation was scientifically vigorous. It could conquer armies and weapons. It could pit force against force. But what of the mental attack of a mutant such as the Mule?"
"That would be for the psychologists of the Second Foundation!" Bayta felt excitement rising within her.
[...]
"Ah," and Ebling Mis's thin face wrinkled thoughtfully, "is it that again? But the Second Foundation was a more difficult job than the First. Its complexity is hugely greater; and consequently so is its possibility of error. And if the Second Foundation should not beat the Mule, it is bad - ultimately bad. It is the end, may be, of the human race as we know it."
"No.
"Yes. If the Mule's descendants inherit his mental powers - You see? Homo sapiens could not compete. There would be a new dominant race - a new aristocracy - with homo sapiens demoted to slave labor as an inferior race. Isn't that so?"
"Yes, that is so."
And here we have an early broaching of a couple ideas explored in greater depth in Second Foundation and Foundation's Edge, whether mentalics are human or a separate subspecies, and the utter rejection by First Foundation people of the very idea of a ruling caste of mentalics.
Bayta, face frozen white, lifted her blaster and shot, with an echoing clap of noise. From the waist upward, Mis was not, and a ragged hole was in the wall behind. From numb fingers, Bayta's blaster dropped to the floor.
The "echoing clap" is something that isn't mentioned in other blaster incidents, as far as I remember, and perhaps is a sign of high setting usage.

In any case, this is one of the clearest examples of non-DET shenanigans at work. Close range vaporization of half an adult human being with leftover energy to blast a hole in a wall and no use of shields by the witnesses who were around Ebling Mis should have resulted in the steam cloud killing everyone else in the room. Since we don't have any of that, we are probably dealing with exotic disintegration phenomena here.

26. End Of The Search
Toran said harshly and with finality, "It's impossible. Look at the miserable creature. He the Mule? He doesn't even hear what we're saying."
But when his eyes followed his pointing finger, Magnifico was erect and alert, his eyes sharp and darkly bright. His voice was without a trace of an accent, "I hear her, my friend. It is merely that I have been sitting here and brooding on the fact that with all my cleverness and forethought I could make a mistake, and lose so much."
Toran stumbled backward as if afraid the clown might touch him or that his breath might contaminate him.
Magnifico nodded, and answered the unspoken question. "I am the Mule."
And the audience shits a brick.

The story really does quite a good job building the Mule as this enormous unseen threat, like Sauron in LotR (who is a surprisingly memorable villain for a guy who doesn't actually appear in the book except as a flaming eye), and the revelation is quite unexpected.
"The whole notion of my unusual power seems to have broken on me so slowly, in such sluggish steps. Even toward the end, I couldn't believe it. To me, men's minds are dials, with pointers that indicate the prevailing emotion. It is a poor picture, but how else can I explain it? Slowly, I learned that I could reach into those minds and turn the pointer to the spot I wished, that I could nail it there forever. And then it took even longer to realize that others couldn't.
"But the consciousness of power came, and with it, the desire to make up for the miserable position of my earlier life. Maybe you can understand it. Maybe you can try to understand it. It isn't easy to be a freak - to have a mind and an understanding and be a freak. Laughter and cruelty! To be different! To be an outsider!
[...]
He paused to glance at Bayta swiftly. "But I had a weakness. I was nothing in myself. If I could gain power, it could only be by means of others. Success came to me through middlemen. Always! It was as Pritcher said. Through a pirate, I obtained my first asteroidal base of operations. Through an industrialist I got my first foothold on a planet. Through a variety of others ending with the warlord of Kalgan, I won Kalgan itself and got a navy. After that, it was the Foundation - and you two come into the story.
"The Foundation," he said, softly, "was the most difficult task I had met. To beat it, I would have to win over, break down, or render useless an extraordinary proportion of its ruling class. I could have done it from scratch - but a short cut was possible, and I looked for it. After all, if a strong man can lift five hundred pounds, it does not mean that he is eager to do so continuously. My emotional control is not an easy task, I prefer not to use it, where not fully necessary. So I accepted allies in my first attack upon the Foundation.
"As my clown, I looked for the agent, or agents, of the Foundation that must inevitably have been sent to Kalgan to investigate my humble self. I know now it was Han Pritcher I was looking for. By a stroke of fortune, I found you instead. I am a telepath, but not a complete one, and, my lady, you were from the Foundation. I was led astray by that. It was not fatal for Pritcher joined us afterward, but it was the starting point of an error that was fatal."
The Mule offers some commentary about the limitations of his powers, such as the fact that emotional conditioning requires such effort that it is not something to be used in every circumstance, and the fact that he is "not a complete" telepath. Which probably means that even though he can read emotions and such, he cannot directly extract specific information or read thoughts as most fictional telepaths can.
"Through Pritcher, I met Dr. Mis, who brought me a Visi-Sonor, entirely of his own accord, and simplified my task immensely. Only it wasn't entirely of his own accord."
Bayta interrupted, "Those concerts! I've been trying to fit them in. Now I see."
"Yes," said Magnifico, "the Visi-Sonor acts as a focusing device. In a way, it is a primitive device for emotional control in itself. With it, I can handle people in quantity and single people more intensively. The concerts I gave on Terminus before it fell and Haven before it fell contributed to the general defeatism. I might have made the crown prince of Neotrantor very sick without the Visi-Sonor, but I could not have killed him. You see?
Self-explanatory. Though the Mule is not strictly limited to affecting a single individual at a time without the Visi-Sonor, his ability to multi-task the emotional control is not great and that made the Visi-Sonor exceedingly valuable for him.
"But it was Ebling Mis who was my most important find. He might have been-" Magnifico said it with chagrin, then hurried on, "There is a special facet to emotional control you do not know about. Intuition or insight or hunch-tendency, whatever you wish to call it, can be treated as an emotion. At least, I can treat it so. You don't understand it, do you?"
He waited for no negative, "The human mind works at low efficiency. Twenty percent is the figure usually given. When, momentarily, there is a flash of greater power it is termed a hunch, or insight, or intuition. I found early that I could induce a continual use of high brain-efficiency. It is a killing process for the person affected, but it is useful. The nuclear field-depressor which I used in the war against the Foundation was the result of high-pressuring a Kalgan technician. Again I work through others.
"Ebling Mis was the bull's-eye. His potentialities were high, and I needed him. Even before my war with the Foundation had opened, I had already sent delegates to negotiate with the Empire. It was at that time I began my search for the Second Foundation. Naturally, I didn't find it. Naturally, I knew that I must find it - and Ebling Mis was the answer. With his mind at high efficiency, he might possibly have duplicated the work of Hari Seldon.
"Partly, he did. I drove him to the utter limit. The process was ruthless, but had to be completed. He was dying at the end, but he lived-" Again, his chagrin interrupted him. "He would have lived long enough. Together, we three could have gone onward to the Second Foundation. It would have been the last battle - but for my mistake."
Leaving aside the nonsensical stuff about humans using only a fraction of our brain, it seems pretty self-explanatory.
"You, Toran, were under control. You never suspected me; never questioned me; never saw anything peculiar or strange about me. As for instance, when the 'Filian' ship stopped us. They knew our location, by the way, because I was in communication with them, as I've remained in communication with my generals at all times. When they stopped us, I was taken aboard to adjust Han Pritcher, who was on it as a prisoner. When I left, he was a colonel, a Mule's man, and in command. The whole procedure was too open even for you, Toran. Yet you accepted my explanation of the matter, which was full of fallacies. See what I mean?"
Toran grimaced, and challenged him, "How did you retain communications with your generals?"
"There was no difficulty to it. Hyperwave transmitters are easy to handle and eminently portable. Nor could I be detected in a real sense! Anyone who did catch me in the act would leave me with a slice gapped out of his memory. It happened, on occasion.
Even though this has nothing to do with emotions, the Mule can induce limited amnesia.

Also, hyperwave transmitters seem to have advanced a whole lot. When he left Kalgan, the Mule carried only the clothes he was wearing, so the device he used afterwards for communication with his forces has to be very small, probably not much bigger than a modern cell phone. In-teresting.

In any case, that's that for Foundation and Empire. Next I'll be doing a summary and give this a rest, before starting with Second Foundation.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by chornedsnorkack »

Murazor wrote:
And then Devers was on a huge terrace under the bright white sun, along which women chattered, children shrieked, and men sipped drinks languidly and listened to the huge televisors blaring out the news of the Empire.
Barr paid a requisite number of iridium coins and appropriated the uppermost member of a pile of newspapers. It was the Trantor Imperial News, official organ of the government. In the back of the news room, there was the soft clicking noise of additional editions being printed in long-distance sympathy with the busy machines at the Imperial News offices ten thousand miles away by corridor - six thousand by air-machine - just as ten million sets of copies were being likewise printed at that moment in ten million other news rooms all over the planet.
Iridium coins suggest that the Empire is using commodity money (a hundred tons of iridium a year were considered a reasonable tribute to get Riose to stop curbstomping the Foundation), which is a tremendously backwards way of doing things. However, the fact that Devers and Barr are throwing around money guaranteed by Brodrig makes things more uncertain.
Erm, US small change from 10 to 50 cents was silver until 1965. USA has not resumed fractional currency (paper notes under 1 dollar) after Civil War - even during Second World War what they resorted to was steel cent, not fractional currency.

But the value of iridium is problematic. These 100 tons per year would make, in 10 million newsrooms of Trantor, 10 grams of iridium coins per whole newsroom per year. And the population of 4 Kingdoms combined exceeded that of Trantor. By 200, the population of Anacreon may have exceeded that of Trantor.
Murazor wrote: I also like the quaint retro feel of the news-room with public televisions and print-on-demand newspapers. There is apparently one of these for every four thousand people living in Trantor, so it is an adequate set-up to keep people informed in a setting lacking an Internet equivalent.
He said, "I better leave it to you, doc."
Barr was calm, low-voice. "I tried to tell you, but it's hard to believe without seeing for yourself, I know that. Do you know how many people want to see the Emperor every day? About one million. Do you know how many he sees? About ten. We'll have to work through the civil service, and that makes it harder. But we can't afford the aristocracy."
"We have almost one hundred thousand."
"A single Peer of the Realm would cost us that, and it would take at least three or four to form an adequate bridge to the Emperor. It may take fifty chief commissioners and senior supervisors to do the same, but they would cost us only a hundred apiece perhaps. I'll do the talking. In the first place, they wouldn't understand your accent, and in the second, you don't know the etiquette of Imperial bribery. It's an art, I assure you. Ah!"
[...]
Barr shrugged, "You can't go fast on Trantor. If you try, you'll end up at the point of an atom-blaster, most likely."
"How long will it take?"
"A month, if we're lucky. A month, and our hundred thousand credits - if even that will suffice. And that is providing the Emperor does not take it into his head in the meantime to travel to the Summer Planets, where he sees no petitioners at all."
Barr claims that he has never been in Trantor. And yet he is something of an expert in court politics, "the etiquette of Imperial bribery" and the going rates for bribing Peers of the Realm and senior bureaucrats.

I am getting boring with my paranoia about this character, but the guy is really, really, really suspicious.
Young men are not only coming to Barr to ask for love potions. They are also/mostly asking about how to get appointed to offices - something that often involves trip to Trantor, greasing palms and depending on the position a stay in university. And how does Barr get this information? Mostly by questioning the people who went there and came back.

Personal trip to Trantor would be optional - an option he did not take. This kind of information and influence peddling would also provide a legitimate activity to cover up plotting revellion - and the reputation for wisdom and influence useful to persuade people to sign up to conspiracy.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by ryacko »

Many characters in the trilogy are likely agents of the Second Foundation.
But the value of iridium is problematic. These 100 tons per year would make, in 10 million newsrooms of Trantor, 10 grams of iridium coins per whole newsroom per year. And the population of 4 Kingdoms combined exceeded that of Trantor. By 200, the population of Anacreon may have exceeded that of Trantor.
Asimov wasn't considering scale. He was considering other scientific concepts
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Boeing 757 »

Simon_Jester wrote:Boeing, it is very clear to me that your last sentence is correct.

Another way to look at it is that many of these "nucleic" devices are to OUR concept of "nuclear power" as modern "electronic" devices are to an 1870s concept of "electricity." Telling someone that an iPad is an electronic device would make them feel very confused. To them, electricity is arcing and sparking and big copper coils, not a magic slab of glass that shows pictures of whatever you want and remembers more information than a hundred file cabinets!

Likewise, to us "nuclear power" is huge bombs and huge reactors, not walnut-sized power storage and bombs that fit under the tongue.
Outstanding point. And that is just one more reason why people shouldn't be so quick to draw a conclusion from a sci-fi work because an author happened to employ a particular term so loosely. If I had a dollar for every time that someone claimed that Foundationverse technology is powered by modern nuclear fission/fusion reactors, I would be a very rich man.
Murazor wrote:
Boeing 757 wrote:2. When the narrator calls the weapon a "nuclear bomb," it raises some interesting issues. Is it even possible for a bomb of that size to be based on nuclear fission or fusion (at least as we understand it today)? And if so...what kind of damage could a nuclear bomb of that size be expected to bring about?
My knowledge of nuclear physics is "browses wikipedia" level, but what little I've been able to find suggests that even californium 252 (which of those listed by wiki appears to have the lowest critical mass) requires a ball several centimeters in diameter and several kilograms in weight which is much too big in both senses to satisfy the requirements of Pritcher's tiny bomb.
Well, don't feel bad about that because I'm in that same club unfortunately.... Anyway, considering the size of this thing and hinging upon the size of that palace, I think a substance such as antimatter would almost certainly have been a more suitable candidate for what gives this bomb its potency. Too bad that Asimov hadn't thought of that as he wrote this book.
Omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium.

Kritisches Denken schützt vor Illusionen.

Παν μέτρον άριστον τῷ κρατίστῳ.
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Simon_Jester »

Murazor wrote:My knowledge of nuclear physics is "browses wikipedia" level, but what little I've been able to find suggests that even californium 252 (which of those listed by wiki appears to have the lowest critical mass) requires a ball several centimeters in diameter and several kilograms in weight which is much too big in both senses to satisfy the requirements of Pritcher's tiny bomb.
I truly wouldn't know.
Murazor wrote:It'd be remarkable that the equipment still works after decades of it being abandoned... but it is commented that the Second Foundation saved the university, so they probably take care of doing some maintenance, too.

One does wonder where they were in this period, though, with the Mule living in their own world.
They may have been able to hide themselves from him- or, just as easily, have left the planet entirely.
Leaving aside the nonsensical stuff about humans using only a fraction of our brain, it seems pretty self-explanatory.
The idea that the brain might be 'overclocked' isn't such nonsense; it's just that we don't have a way to do it.
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Murazor
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Re: Quantification for the Foundation [Foundation quotes]

Post by Murazor »

Foundation & Empire: Highlights


Size & demography

The Trantorian Empire, during the period of the Riose War, controlled "the inner third of the Milky Way" (Prologue) and still spanned "twenty million stellar systems" (On Trantor, I 9). Its exact population is not known, but it concentrated "three quarters of the [galactic] population" (Prologue). Slightly over a century later, following the fall of Trantor to the rebel leader Gilmer, the vestigial empire ruled by Dagobert IX from Neotrantor/Delicass was itself a barbarian splinter kingdom of "twenty worlds of refractory squires and sullen peasants" (Death On Neotrantor, II 22).

As for the Foundation, we only have vagueness in this book. The start of the Riose War marked a temporary end for a period of "forty years of expansion" (The Magicians, I 2), so it can safely be assumed that the Foundation was far larger than in Mallow's time, though the exact extent of growth is unknown. By the same token, of the Foundation under the hereditary mayors we only know that it was widely regarded as stronger than it was during the fourth crisis and that "the fear of [the name of the Foundation] ruled a quadrant of the galaxy with ruthless despotism" (Lieutenant And Clown, II 13).

Of the Association of Independent Traders we know a little more. It is a loose coalition/alliance of "twenty-seven independent Trading worlds" (Conference, II 16) with extremely limited populations. Extrapolation from the information known about Haven II (one of the three strongest Trading worlds, possibly the strongest) and Radole (the weakest) suggests a total population in the single digit millions, but considering the wildly variable conditions of these planets this assertion is extremely speculative.

For the galaxy as a whole, we only have vague statements that say that the global galactic population is in the quadrillions during the Mule period (Conspirator, II 20; End Of The Search, II 26).

-Planetary populations of interest

Little about specific figures for planetary populations.

Haven II is implied to have a population of "some hundred thousand Traders" (Bride And Groom, II 11).

Trantor seemingly kept a stable population of forty billions in the late Imperial period both during the Riose War and right until Gilmer's Great Sack ended Trantor as imperial throneworld (On Trantor, I 9; Death On Neotrantor, II 22). Afterwards, there were perhaps "a hundred million" (Death On Neotrantor, II 22) who started the long process of turning Tantor into an agrarian world.

And that's that.

Industry

The Trantorian Empire under Cleon II still has some industrial capacity worthy of the name and can do things like build ships-of-the-line, although the quality of the production is explicitly inferior to previous centuries and Riose thinks that there is no man in the galaxy capable of building a "first-rate hypernuclear motor" (The War Begins, I 5). Still, even the military governor of a remote and barbarian province is still capable of creating in a few months an extensive base of operations under the rocky surface of "a wandering sunless planet" in the interstellar void, with interstellar communications, hangars, healthcare facilities and semi-permanent habitats.

We are told nothing in the way of hard data about the other factions described in the book.
Nevertheless, by the time of the Mule War, although most ships in the Foundation's quadrant are "built by Foundation technicians" or "imitate Foundation design" (The Mutant, II 14), ship-building by non-Foundation nations is no longer a rarity. Particularly, the Kalgan Navy used by the Mule against the Foundation was built in Kalgan itself to a standard of quality high enough to compete with Foundation forces, and the Independent Traders manufactured themselves their thousand strong combined fleet over an unspecified length of time.

Communications

Sub-ether is all but confirmed to be just the same as hyperwave/ultrawave, but we also get a fair bit of interesting new data.

First, hyperwave has range limitations. The specifics are murky, but the fact is definite. This explains how Terminus in particular and the Periphery in general could be isolated from the Empire, despite it broadcasting "subetheric trimensional thrillers" (The Favorite, I 6). Particularly, during the Riose Wars, a range of five hundred light years was "extreme range" for the hyperwave communicator mounted in Lathan Devers tradeship (To Trantor, I 8).

Second, hyperwave communications can be intercepted and jammed, which brings us back to comments about sub-ether not being adequate for sensitive information made in the previous book. As a result, Bel Riose used coded messages and "tight beam" hyperwave to communicate with his fleet from his headquarters (The Dead Hand, I 3), Haven II was isolated from the rest of the galaxy when the blockading fleet jammed their insterstellar communications generating around the system an area of "dead space, through whose blockaded sub-ether no message could be driven" (Interlude In Space, II 21) and Personal Capsules come up every time someone wants to send someone else something even remotely sensitive.

Third, hyperwave technology seems to have improved considerably in the century between the Riose War and the Mule War. The Mule carried in his person at all times a hidden hyperwave transmitter which he describes as "easy to handle and eminently portable" (End Of The Search, II 26), which he used to stay in contact with his underlings while conducting his campaigns of mentalic attack against the Foundation and Independent Traders.

We also get some good info about Personal Capsules. All models seemingly require the "personal characteristic" of the addressee to be opened conventionally (To Trantor, I 8), though Imperial designs can be opened by Foundation technicians thanks to their superior technological skill. As for Foundation designs, in the Riose War period they are smaller in size, shielded against known methods of scanning and the message they contain self-destructs within a minute of the Capsule being opened (To Trantor, I 8). Also, they apparently can "arrive by wavelength" (Death On Neotrantor, II 22), which may be connected in some way to the teleport mentioned in Foundation.

Sensors

We only get a brief reference to sensor technology when Bayta and Toran escape the blockade of Haven II. They do this by staying in proximity to stars and hyperjumping from star to star, since "the neighborhood of great mass" makes enemy sensors "useless or nearly so" (Interlude In Space, II 21). Considering this and the existence in the distant past of the setting of gravity based scanners or massometers, it is likely that the aforementioned detection devices are gravitometric in nature.

Space travel & spacecraft

-Fleets & Ship Counts

GALACTIC EMPIRE

Apparently, over two centuries of civil war "more than half" of the Grand Fleet of the Trantorian Empire was destroyed (The War Begins, I 5). Nevertheless, Bel Riose (who was a general without the favour of the Court and whose appointment as military governor of Siwenna was effectively an exile) commanded the 20th Border Fleet of the Empire (The Favorite, I 6), a force described in some detail in the text.

The 20th Border Fleet was formed by "ten ships of the line" "with a full complement of auxiliary vessels" (The Emperor, I 4). Two of these ships of the line used engines cannibalized from older ships of the Grand Fleet, another had a "battery of power artillery" from the same source and the rest were modern vessels built within the previous fifty years. Of the auxiliary vessels we know next to nothing regarding numbers or capacity, except for the fact that one of them was the Starlet, a patrol ship (The Dead Hand, I 3), and that Riose used "light cruiser" type vessels without enough firepower to reliably bring down the defenses of Foundation trade ships (Bribery, I 7).

It is also mentioned that Brodrig, as favorite of the Emperor, could demand "hundreds of ships" (Bribery, I 7) and though this specific figure is unconfirmed, Riose received five "smooth and strong" ships of the line as reinforcements with more stated to be "on the way" (Bribery, I 7), once Brodrig became the second in command of the Imperial side during the Riose War.

From the above, we can infer that Trantor during the reign of Cleon II has several hundred ships of the line guarding its borders and possibly a naval reserve of hundreds more, plus an unknowable number of lesser vessels. However, two centuries before the Riose War, it used to have over twice the nominal naval strength of Riose's day and with ships of greater quality, since Riose himself thought that the ships worth in his time weren't "worth anything" (The War Begins, I 5).

FOUNDATION - RIOSE WAR

It is somewhat unclear whether the Foundation had a warfleet as such during the Riose War or if the Merchant Princes merely used their fleets of armed trade ships, since trade ships are said to be speedier than anything in the Empire (On Trantor, I 9) and that their shields can take "all the beating an [Imperial] light cruiser [can give]" (Bribery, I 7). In any case, total Foundation losses for the Riose War are noted to have been of "half a thousand ships" (Captain And Mayor, II 12).

---

ASSOCIATION OF INDEPENDENT TRADERS

Initially preparing for open conflict with the Foundation itself, the Independent Traders managed to form an international flotilla of "nearly a thousand ships" with the worlds of Haven II, Iss and Mnemon representing "about half" of this military force (Conference, II 16). Also, at least Mnemon sent "most" of its fleet to the flotilla, but kept around a "Home Squadron" formed by "a few ships" (Conference, II 16).

FOUNDATION - MULE WAR

Not too much information here, either.

It was formed by at least ten fleets (Fall Of The Foundation, II 18) of unknown strength and composition. Overall, it was believed by everyone that the fleet of the Independent Traders was "much weaker" than the Foundation navy (Start Of The Search, II 19).

The only specific figure we are given concerns the battle of Horleggor, a major battle in which a Mule fleet of a hundred and ten ships defeated a numerically weaker Foundation fleet. The surrender of twenty undamaged Foundation ships in the middle of the battle forced the rest of the Foundation forces to withdraw from the battlefield (The Visi-Sonor, II 17).

THE MULE - KALGAN NAVY

As noted above, the Mule commited one hundred and ten warships to the battle of Horleggor, losing ten of them (Conference, II 16), but capturing twenty Foundation vessels in exchange.
Other than this, we are told that the Mule forces attacked Mnemon and destroyed its Home Squadron, but lost half of the ships of that attack force (Conference, II 16); that they beat the Foundation four more times after Horleggor and were beaten twice by the Traders (Fall Of The Foundation, II 18); and that following the occupation of Terminus over ninety nine percent of the Foundation Navy surrendered to the Mule and were added to his fleet (Start Of The Search, II 19).

---

OTHER

Kalgan, a major center of interstellar tourism, has a rare institution known as the Hangar which combines the function of spaceport and hotel. The facility is several square miles in size and has a number of wings, with a single one of these normally containing "hundreds of ships" (The Mutant, II 14), generally privately owned vessels of small size.

-Slower-Than-Light travel

During the Riose War, Riose stated that Foundation trade ships had the speed to "escape at choice" (Bribery, I 7), Devers "knew" that the Imperials didn't have a ship that could match the speed of his (Bribery, I 7) and stated that there was "no Imperial ship that could follow him anywhere" (On Trantor, I 9).

Sadly, no specific distance and time figures that could be used to calculate acceleration curves are given in the book. The only vaguely calcable incident involves the Bayta ending a hyperjump under "the full glare of a red giant" (Interlude In Space, II 21) and this one is problematic.

Problematic because 1) we don't know the physical properties of the red giant making any calc rest upon assumptions and 2) the whole thing seems to me to be non-sensical to begin with. Red giants tend to have extremely low surface gravities (as in like 1/100th of Earth's) and any ship that can do multi-g accelerations ought to be able to escape from the gravity well of one easily enough. So unless "the full glare" actually means that they reappeared inside the red giant (an interpretation I don't make) this... simply doesn't make sense.

-Faster-Than-Light travel

Thanks to a number of instances in which we know roughly the interstellar distances covered and the rough timeframes involved, we can calculate effective speeds for long-range hyper travel.

*Toran & Bayta's honeymoon trip (& The Personal Capsule):

As mentioned in The Mule, Toran and Bayta went to Kalgan from Haven, spent four days there, went from Kalgan to Terminus, where they were arrested. After being arrested, they somehow sent to Haven a Personal Capsule for Toran's uncle. This capsule crossed the war zone of the ongoing Foundation-Mule conflict and upon reaching Haven was redirected to Radole, where it arrived a month after Bayta and Toran's initial departure from Haven II.

We don't know how long the Terminus-Haven II-Radole part of this trip took and we don't know how long after their arrest the Capsule was dispatched. Nevertheless, we know that Kalgan is roughly seven thousand parsecs from both Terminus and Haven II and that's good enough to calculate a low end figure. So with a distance of 14,000 parsecs (45,662.86 light years) crossed in 26 days, the spaceship must have crossed 1,756.26 light years per day, minimum. Meaning that the low end speed for this trip was of 641,036.41 times the speed of light.

For further context, this was a trip done through the galactic periphery (where hyper-travel is faster, because gravity wells are not as concentrated as in the central regions of the galaxy) and following a well charted route.

*Toran & Bayta's escape from Haven II:

Nearly a month after leaving Haven II, following a very wavy route and reaching regions in which stellar density (and poor star charts) forced the protagonists to devote days to plotting their next jumps, their ship was approximately halfway to the galactic core. Since Haven II is described like Terminus to be in the very edge of the galaxy, the minimum distance covered in this month-long trip if of 25,000 light-years. Therefore, the spaceship must have crossed 833.33 light years per day or whereabouts, at least, for an average speed of 304,166.66 c.

*Captain Pritcher's trip from Terminus:

Some time after being arrested on Terminus, Pritcher was put on a Mule spaceship that followed Toran & Bayta to a point located 15,000 parsecs from Terminus. If Pritcher's ship abandoned Terminus at the same time Bayta & CO left Haven II, they'd have covered 48,924.5 light years in a month (1,630.81 light years per day) requiring an average speed of 595,245.65 c.

This final figure rests in unconfirmed assumptions, although they are reasonable ones (since the Mule ship was following them according to the Mule's own orders and hence cannot have started heading towards the galactic center before their leaving Haven II).

The above calculations all seem broadly consistent with each other and the long distance trips we have seen earlier in the series. We have speeds in the low hundreds of thousands of c through difficult and poorly charted areas, while easily navigated sectors with well known routes present high hundreds of thousands (and potentially higher) speed figures.

Besides the speed, we also get a number of details of interest. It is, for example, hinted that Foundation ships can jump longer distances than their Imperial counterparts or, more exactly, that Imperial vessels don't "outrange" Foundation trade ships of the Riose War period (To Trantor, I 8). Also, we are told that with a good ship and expert pilot it is possible to follow through hyperspace ships that aren't "masking their trail" (Interlude In Space, II 21), which apparently involves extrapolation based on the followed ship's sublight direction prior to jumping.

In addition to this, we get some detail about how gravity makes hyperjumping "erratic and difficult" (Interlude In Space, II 21). Lathan Devers comments that blind-jumping to escape their pursuers could have ended with them landing "in a sun's belly" (To Trantor, I 8) and perturbations caused by gravity left Toran and Bayta's spaceship "in the full glare of a red giant" (Interlude In Space, II 21). In the same vein, in order to escape from Imperial craft, Lathan Devers did an emergency hypershift barely "two thousand miles above the surface of Trantor" (On Trantor, I 9) and this extreme proximity to a planetary mass resulted in the ship's passengers suffering great pain and unconsciousness (supposing Trantor to have Earth like physical properties, the force of gravity at that distance from the surface would be approximately 4.33 m/s^2 or 0.44 g).

Weapons Technology

-Handheld Weaponry

Blasters or blast-guns remain enormously deadly weapons against everyone who is hit and doesn't wear a personal forcefield. A Imperial design (Bel Riose's personal weapon) instantly killed a man and made him "collapse in blasted ruin" (Bribery, I 7), while the Foundation blasters used by Devers opened a hole in a wall and caused a man's head to fall after making the torso it was previously attached to disappear (On Trantor, I 9). Blasters of the Mule period still had similar effects, with a blaster of "respectable caliber" being allegedly capable of vaporizing a person whole, leaving "nothing but a burn spot left" (Conspirator, II 20), and Ebling Mis was disintegrated from the waist up to prevent him from revealing the secret location of the Second Foundation.

Other weapons observed or referenced include neut-guns (implied to be exceedingly lethal if pointed at one's own head), stun guns which cause temporary unconsciousness and apparently come in several power levels (Lieutenant And Clown, II 13; Death On Neotrantor; II 22) and electric whips which seem to be crowd control devices (Lieutenant And Clown, II 13).

-Explosives

A resistance group within the Foundation can manufacture with stolen components a tiny nuclear bomb with a time detonator. This device was small and light enough to be carried under a man's tongue, but was still expected to be powerful enough to destroy a palace, "all the palace" (Conspirator, II 20). Depending on the specifics of this destruction, the energy densities required for the device to perform its function would be somewhere between the hundreds of megajoules and the tens of gigajoules.

-Naval Weaponry

Foundation ships during the Riose War appear to have used two different types of ship-mounted weapon, energy projectors and some manner of solid projectile launcher (The Favorite, I 6). Meanwhile, Imperial vessels in the same conflict used an unidentified kind of weapon that caused its targets to "shrivel in atomic disintegration" (The Favorite, I 6).

Later, during the Mule War, the Independent Traders of Mnemon used "nuclear weapons" of unidentified nature (Conference, II 16) and that's about all we have about ship-to-ship combat in the period, except for the Mule's wonder weapon, the Nuclear Field Depressor. This technology is first seen used against the traders of Mnemon to incapacitate the nuclear weapons of their Home Squadron and is later used to deactivate all nuclear technology in Terminus City by orbiting spaceships (Fall Of The Foundation, II 18), but afterwards it is said to be a "clumsy" and easily counteracted weapon of little impact overall.

-Forcefields

Imperial warships of the period of the Riose War still used forcefields for defensive purposes and, depending on interpretation of a particular quote, used power generators weighing fifty million tons for this purpose (Search For Magicians, I 1). Comparatively, Foundation trade ships all had the already mentioned defensive screens, which were apparently good for combat against anything smaller than a light cruiser (Bribery, I 7).

During the Mule period, there is a mention of protective screens being something that "only a Foundation ship could possess" (The Mutant, II 14), although the context refers to vessels parked in Kalgan's Hangar (meaning small, privately owned spaceships) and is therefore possible that non-Foundation warships also have forcefield defenses.

In regards to personal shields, "all soldiers of the Foundation" were equipped with one (Bribery, I 7). In spite of the fact that these shields were effective against Imperial small arms (On Trantor, I 9), the Foundation lost "half a million men" during the Riose War (Captain And Mayor, II 12) and it follows that there must have been something in the Imperial arsenal up to the task of killing shielded foes. Oddly enough, personal scale shielding is neither seen nor mentioned during the Mule War.

Other Technology

As in Foundation, there are a number of technologies seen or referenced in the book that are of no great relevance for our purposes, such as aircars, the strange vanishing doors in the Imperial Palace, Trantor's weather control machinery or the disintegrator slash paper shredder built in Mayor Indbur's desk. And the Visi-Sonor is only interesting in regards to its capacity for direct manipulation of the visual centers of the brain and the way it enhances mentalic manipulation (something explored in more detail in the next section). However, there is another type of mind affecting technology that deserves greater scrutiny.

-Psychic Probe

This is old technology already known to both Foundation and Empire during the Riose War and seemingly used to read minds and memories (though the specifics remain somewhat elusive). The Foundation used one during interrogation of the crew of a captured Imperial starship (The Magicians, I 2) and Bel Riose owned "an old, superannuated one" (The Favorite, I 6), which was apparently a bit of a rarity. Repeated mention is made of its dangers with the Mule claiming that one could be used to "drain the mind and leave an empty skull" (The Visi-Sonor, II 17) and mention of it causing "a few days' weakness" even when used by a skilled operator (Conspirator, II 20). Moreover, a number of ways of fooling the Probe are presented in the book. Lathan Devers resisted Riose's thanks to one of his devices, Brodrig claimed that his bodyguards didn't "even make sense to a Psychic Probe" (Bribery, I 7) and the Mule gave Ebling Mis false memories when scanned (The Visi-Sonor, II 17), although he was only examined with a Surface Probe which is implied to be a far less invasive form of the technology.

Mental Powers

In the book, the Foundation encounters mental powers for the first time, in the form of the Mule's mutation.

We are given a good oversight of his capabilities, particularly in chapter 26, but let's make a rundown of our own for the sake of thoroughness.

The Mule claims to be "a telepath, but not a complete one" (End Of The Search, II 26) and his mutation is described as the power to manipulate emotion (Convert, II 24; Death Of A Psychologist, II 25). This means that he can sense the emotional makeup of other human minds and alter it in whatever way he deems convenient (End Of The Search, II 26), with the changes he operates being permanent if he so desires (Convert, II 24). He cannot, however, read specific memories or thoughts, which is why he initially assumed Bayta and Toran to be Foundation agents sent to Kalgan and why he couldn't simply read Ebling Mis' mind to learn the secret of the Second Foundation before he was killed (End Of The Search, II 26).

With the Visi-Sonor, the Mule claims that he could "handle people in quantity and single people more intensely" (End Of The Search, II 26) and that the instrument allowed him to kill with emotional torture (Death On Neotrantor, II 22), since normally "he might have made the crown prince of Neotrantor very sick" at most. This does not mean, however, that the Mule requires the Visi-Sonor to affect more than one individual at the same time. As seen during the fall of Terminus, he was able to inflict a feeling of overwhelming despair on the hundreds present in the Time Vault without his instrument (Fall Of The Foundation, II 18). However, emotional control is something that seems to require quite a bit of effort and the Mule by preference doesn't use it, except when completely necessary.

Finally, the Mule shows two additional abilities not directly related to emotion manipulation: he is capable of removing memories which he claims to have done several times to preserve the secret of his continued communications with his followers and he can make the brains of other human beings operate at higher than normal efficiency, a process which eventually kills the victim but grants enhanced mental performance in the interim (End Of The Search, II 26).

Psychohistory

To finish, the book gives us a somewhat better understanding of psychohistory and its limitations, as well as the need for a Second Foundation. Leaving aside events capable of altering the collective emotional reactions of mankind (such as the Mule), Seldon made forecasts according to the science and knowledge of his time. As a result, paradigm-altering technological advances (such as a new form of energy usage, improved understanding of neurobiology or -less probably- new kinds of weaponry) can potentially make Seldon's original equations useless and the Plan must be continuously updated for it to remain valid.

And... that was all, folks.

See you next book.
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