Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[Crossover_Maniac]

From the official The Official FAQ for alt.tv.andromeda:

In lieu of shields, the Andromeda uses her battle blades as a last-ditch defense against incoming enemy fire. The Battle Blades are those scythe-like projections you sometimes see swinging out around the central hull as they prepare to go into battle. They serve two functions. First, they mount powerful anti-gravity generators that can fling aside incoming missiles, causing them to miss their target. Second, they are a physical barrier. Missiles that strike the Battle Blades are converted into plasma, which causes less damage to the central hull than an intact missile would. As a sort of stand-off armor, they can be quite effective.

Given the fact that the Battle blades are affective enough to protect the Andromeda Ascendent from relativistic missiles, it should be an affective shield from turbolasers bolts.

[omegaLancer]

The fact is that The Andromeda targeting systems are easily confused by ECM. In "D minus Zero" she engaged in a missiles duel with a Restor Destroyer.. The entire battle The Restors had jam The Andromeda targeting sensors and during the battle the Andromeda was force to hide in the Corona of a star to avoid being destroyed..

In " Dance of the mayflie" Than fighters were able to employ ECM to negate the Andromeda Defensive missiles, allowing to close to range of the fighter energy weapons..

Another factor is the fact that the main Offensive missile of the Andromeda have a range of 1 to 2 light minute...

There is a reference to "space units" as a measure of range from the "Behind The Magic" CD. The BTM CD says that turbolasers have a max range of 75 space units, compared to the Death Star's 100-space-unit range. The SWTJ gives the max DS range as 47,060,000km, so one space unit (using both of these sources)=470,600km.

So a star destroyer turbo batteries would allow her to exchange boardside against the standard KE offensive missiles...

Even using the Flack setting a Turbo laser, any near misses would cripple, if not destroy Andromeda or any other common wealth vessel

[Crossover_Maniac]

The fact is that The Andromeda targeting systems are easily confused by ECM. In "D minus Zero" she engaged in a missiles duel with a Restor Destroyer.. The entire battle The Restors had jam The Andromeda targeting sensors and during the battle the Andromeda was force to hide in the Corona of a star to avoid being destroyed..

In " Dance of the mayflie" Than fighters were able to employ ECM to negate the Andromeda Defensive missiles, allowing to close to range of the fighter energy weapons..

Jamming technology is not that reliable or else the Andromeda's missiles would be jammed every single time it entered battle. Also, the Andromeda has sensor drones that can guide offensive missiles to their targets.

Another factor is the fact that the main Offensive missile of the Andromeda have a range of 1 to 2 light minute...

There is a reference to "space units" as a measure of range from the "Behind The Magic" CD. The BTM CD says that turbolasers have a max range of 75 space units, compared to the Death Star's 100-space-unit range. The SWTJ gives the max DS range as 47,060,000km, so one space unit (using both of these sources)=470,600km.

Please, even if the ISD's turbolaser bolts are effective at that distance, the turbolaser don't have the accuracy. There were numerous times in TESB that an ISD were close enough to the Falcon to be seen by the naked eye and still missed it. Now, you're trying to hit a target 1 light-minute away (18 million kilometers)? Besides, the range is several light-minutes, this usually means a minimum of three, which leaves a range of (54 million kilometers).

So a star destroyer turbo batteries would allow her to exchange boardside against the standard KE offensive missiles...

Even using the Flack setting a Turbo laser, any near misses would cripple, if not destroy Andromeda or any other common wealth vessel

This assumes the turbolasers bolts aren't stopped by the anti-gravity fields of the battle blades, which are used to block relativistic projectiles. I doubt they'd ever touch the Andromeda.

[His Divine Shadow]

Given the fact that the Battle blades are affective enough to protect the Andromeda Ascendent from relativistic missiles, it should be an affective shield from turbolasers bolts.

Not unless it's blackhole like gravity, SW turbolasers and laser cannons are required to be in close proximity to the Yuuzhan Vong's black hole shields, and even so, they might slip through anyway.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Given the fact that the Battle blades are affective enough to protect the Andromeda Ascendent from relativistic missiles, it should be an affective shield from turbolasers bolts.

Not unless it's blackhole like gravity, SW turbolasers and laser cannons are required to be in close proximity to the Yuuzhan Vong's black hole shields, and even so, they might slip through anyway.

They work exactly the opposite of Yuuzhan Vong black hole shields. The antigravity field will push the turbolaser bolts away rather pull them towards them. And remember, the Battle Blades are effective enough to push away relativistic projectiles though not as effective as the defensive missiles.

[Renewed_Valour1]

They work exactly the opposite of Yuuzhan Vong black hole shields. The antigravity field will push the turbolaser bolts away rather pull them towards them. And remember, the Battle Blades are effective enough to push away relativistic projectiles though not as effective as the defensive missiles.

An even bigger thing to mention is the AG fields totally surround the ship so in order to hit the ship you have to get through them

[Typhonis 1]

Fine then we starve the Commonwealth ships by attacking there fleet resuply vessels after all even Andromeda needs ammo and spare parts and how vulnerable will the transports be?Even with Slipstream they will need to work out transfer points and the ships wont be moving while being supplied ,escorts will have to do the work but still they can blow up the freighters .

[omegaLancer]

There has never been show that the battle blades can deflect energy weapons, as in "dance of the mayflies" Than fighters had no problem hitting with any of their energy weapons...

the same goes for the Ships AG fields.. If this was the Case the DSX would not have added Cold Plasma to defend against against energy weapons.

As for the Effective of ECM, first the Drones need to communicate to the missiles to make course adjustments. If the communication channels are jam, the missiles go dumb. ECM also work against Drones tooo...

[Renewed_Valour1]

Fine then we starve the Commonwealth ships by attacking there fleet resuply vessels after all even Andromeda needs ammo and spare parts and how vulnerable will the transports be?

They don't need it....


High Guard vessels can harvest materials to build missiles and spare parts from asteroid belts. They also have machine shops that given a little time can construct nearly any part they need. They can refuel from gas giant or a star. In regards to food they have a fully stocked hydroponics bay and enough nanotech to take advantage of water materials in making new meals.

[Renewed_Valour1]

the same goes for the Ships AG fields.. If this was the Case the DSX would not have added Cold Plasma to defend against against energy weapons.

Double Helix: Harper used the AG fields to deflect shots from a plasma cannon.

If I recall correctly a turbolaser is basically a type of plasma cannon rather than a laser.

[omegaLancer]

Turbo laser are not plasma weapons, this is stated in The latest Cross section book for Attack of the Clones. From the what it said, it a electro magnetic radiation ( and from the energy invovle it must be a Gaser, Gamma ray laser).

So the AG field would not help......

[His Divine Shadow]

They work exactly the opposite of Yuuzhan Vong black hole shields. The antigravity field will push the turbolaser bolts away rather pull them towards them. And remember, the Battle Blades are effective enough to push away relativistic projectiles though not as effective as the defensive missiles.

Prove it, I see no proof that because they can push missiles that they can push MASSLESS beams.

[His Divine Shadow]

They work exactly the opposite of Yuuzhan Vong black hole shields. The antigravity field will push the turbolaser bolts away rather pull them towards them. And remember, the Battle Blades are effective enough to push away relativistic projectiles though not as effective as the defensive missiles.

An even bigger thing to mention is the AG fields totally surround the ship so in order to hit the ship you have to get through them

Useless since this is totally unworkable in the first place.

Sigh, because it affects a missile moving at relavisitic speeds doesn't mean it's going to affect a massless beam moving at C.

Jeez, I'm suprised that not a soul figured that out, the fallacy of the whole idea just reeks.

We don't see them bending light away now do we?

[His Divine Shadow]

the same goes for the Ships AG fields.. If this was the Case the DSX would not have added Cold Plasma to defend against against energy weapons.

Double Helix: Harper used the AG fields to deflect shots from a plasma cannon.

If I recall correctly a turbolaser is basically a type of plasma cannon rather than a laser.

I believe you refuse to recall the simple truth, they are massless beams moving at C.
There is a big thread on this already in the pure sw forum.

[His Divine Shadow]

Sorry, I'm annoyed at the notion that massless beams will be diverted away by gravitic forces less than what is required to distort light.

[Crossover_Maniac]

They work exactly the opposite of Yuuzhan Vong black hole shields. The antigravity field will push the turbolaser bolts away rather pull them towards them. And remember, the Battle Blades are effective enough to push away relativistic projectiles though not as effective as the defensive missiles.

Prove it, I see no proof that because they can push missiles that they can push MASSLESS beams.

Massless beams move at c. Go back and read the turbolaser commentary. The turbolaser bolts are subluminal. IOW: particles with mass.

[omegaLancer]

unfortuntily the Turbo laser commentaries are neither Cannon or offical, but a work attempting to explain the why and the hows of what are observed in the movies..

The "The Star War Cross Sectional Book for attack of the Clone" is and it explain that the visible bolt is not the true Turbo laser, which is invisible and travel at C, the visible bolt travel down the length of the Beam and is not the damaging potion of the Beam itself..This is also back by other works like the star war Commentaries and from observed behavior of the TL bolt striking meteor in the Hoth field...

The bolt may be a plasma residue from the Tribanna gas, which is excited by laser to Emitted the turbo laser energy and is ejected in order for fresh blaster gas to be inject into the Cannon...

From the SWIC for AOC we also get the figure of 200 Gigaton for the yield of a turbo laser ( 1 shot from the Quad turbo laser batteries)

[Typhonis 1]

My question is this Omegalancer How long will it take for them to replenish the missle supply and fabricate spare parts ,remeber they will be fighting an enemy on his hoime turf with short supply lines.Also those parts that cant be fabricated will be needed like Slipstream cores,also how do they process the "fuel" they get from gas giants and starts how long does it take to fill the tanks??as for Food how much can hydroponics supply and the nanobots make??these are serious concerns I mean what if to replenish a Glorius Heritage cruiser its out of action for a month????? that would be bad for the Commonwealth given they may be outnumbered and what if the system they choose to do the supplying in is occupied by hostile foreces??Another thing replacement personell and occupation troops will have to come from somewhere and THOSE ships can be ambushed .Yes Andromed has those nice droids and only a crew of five .but here the ships will bve fighting seasoned foes on there home turf which the SC has very little knowledge of Telescopes only tell you so much.

[omegaLancer]

First i donot rule out the possibilties of Empire invading the Common wealth, with Hyper space technology it is possible to travel from the milky way to the Andromeda galaxy in a period of 21 days, maybe less...

As for supply situation

Well we know that like star destroyer, the XMS class contains facilities to manfacture, missiles, spare parts and the such.. all that is required is a nice asteroid field and time... My biggest concern is the fuel supply, Anti protons (AP)...since All common wealth vessels use it to generate power, and also it used by their missiles, fighters and AP cannons, I can see the CW finding themselves short of AP after a major engagement..

Generating AP would require a high density power source, solar power would take to long and anti protons are not a minable resource..it must be manufactor..

I have possed the question about AP and the fact that In no show do we ever see the Andromeda refueling, on the Andromeda Forums, the Rommies followers donot think this a major problem even throught they have stated that the writter say that the Andromeda only carry a 6 month supply of AP. The AP cannons do eat up AP faster and if used continuily would easily drain this supply, as would manufactoring new missile, each require enought AP to propell it to 95 psl..


A CW task force do include cargo ships, so they must carry spare AP , missiles and other consumable.

But the Empire would be in the same situation, it should take several months for a star destroyer to reach a CW held galaxy ( if no worm hole existed) it too would require Blaster gas for turbo lasers ( this can be mined in the corona of sun and gas giants), spare parts for shield generator and burn out turbo lasers.. I can see a imperial invasion force bringing a world destroyer to use as a mobile maunfacture facility ( but it would be easier for it to eat asteriods instead of worlds) and several hunderd clone tubes ( with those nice little force resistant lizard that allow you to rapidily clone)....

such cross invasion would have long supply long for both sides, and I foresee both sides attempting to take systems with infrastructor to support their warships.....

[Renewed_Valour1]

First i donot rule out the possibilties of Empire invading the Common wealth, with Hyper space technology it is possible to travel from the milky way to the Andromeda galaxy in a period of 21 days, maybe less...

Except we know that slipscouts have explored most galaxies around the area that was Commonwealth space. They even went out as far as the Virgo Galactic Cluster. They never encountered the Empire so they're going to have to be out further than that. So really a hyperspace mounted invasion if they could even get out of their own galaxy would take months in reality more likely years to reach Commonwealth space. That's a very long supply train and even a peskier invasion to pull off.

My biggest concern is the fuel supply, Anti protons (AP)...since All common wealth vessels use it to generate power, and also it used by their missiles, fighters and AP cannons, I can see the CW finding themselves short of AP after a major engagement..

We saw in the start of "Double Helix" that Andromeda can resupply her AP by skimming through and mining the surface of a star or gas giant. She was just wrapping up a refueling operation and for all intents and purposes I doubt she was in the area for more than a day considering she failed to detect Nietzschean or Than activity in the area. In "Exit Strategies" the Maru ran totally out of fuel and Beka refueled her by skimming the surface of a star in a slingshot maneuver. At most it might have taken the Maru can hour or few hours to tank backup and return to the Andromeda. Any Commonwealth vessel would be better equipped than the Maru to pull in enough supplies to make their AP so it shouldn't even take them as long as the Maru.

Also those parts that cant be fabricated will be needed like Slipstream cores,

Well they shouldn't be using up slipstream cores and vessels like the GHC have two cores. They could easily setup a rendezvous in an other nearby galaxy outside of Imperial control. Once they had some slippaths blazed there the supply ships could wait there while High Guard ships make the few hour to days jump there.

Also how do they process the "fuel" they get from gas giants and starts how long does it take to fill the tanks??

From stars or gas giants. The Maru refueled her tanks with a single slingshot maneuver around the surface of a star in "Exit Strategies".

What if to replenish a Glorius Heritage cruiser its out of action for a month?????

Hardly maybe days at most. Even in "All Too Human" when Hunt depleted Andromeda's all ready low stock of missiles fighting the Basilic(sp) he didn't seem overly concerned. All he stated was don't worry Andromeda after this is all over we'll find you an asteroid belt so you can restock on missiles. Considering all that the Andromeda did in her first season and the fact that we know from the writers that the time between episodes is a few weeks and a season is considered a year none of her replenishment operations could have taken that long.

But here the ships will bve fighting seasoned foes on there home turf which the SC has very little knowledge of Telescopes only tell you so much.

A seasoned fighting force of a brutal Empire that isn't exactly loved by many of it's citizens or neighbors. The Rebellion would jump through hoops to give the Commonwealth all the information they had on the Empire. Imagine the potential ally the Commonwealth would be for them; it's nearly as large as the Empire, months to years away from Imperial reach, and it has an affinity toward hating and overthrowing dictatorships. The reaction of the Empire should be priceless when they have to deal with the Commonwealth who now has their too big advantages FTL sensors and shields. At that point the Empire is going to be slowly whittled away by the Commonwealth.

[His Divine Shadow]

Massless beams move at c. Go back and read the turbolaser commentary. The turbolaser bolts are subluminal. IOW: particles with mass.

Go out and buy a clue will you.

Pg. 3: Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt" is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed...
(ref: Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections)

[His Divine Shadow]

[Q]A seasoned fighting force of a brutal Empire that isn't exactly loved by many of it's citizens or neighbors. The Rebellion would jump through hoops to give the Commonwealth all the information they had on the Empire.[/Q]

The rebellion would have to be alive for that to happen, the only reason they survived in the movies was because of extreme luck and the Emperors convoluted plan to get Skywalker on his side, now priorities will change, the rebellion will be quickly extuingished, and then there is the problem of the rebels contacting the CW, or them actually wanting to help the Commonwealth, why on Earth would they want to help an unknown extra galatic force to attack the Empire? Especially if the Commonwealth goes and uses those nova-bombs or maxim charges.
The rebels, whatever small portion of them that might be alive still, are not going to magically see an great hope to bring down the Empire, they are going to see a murderous extra-galactic threat that is destroying worlds, they are going toally with the Empire, just like they did in Truce at Bakura.

[Q]Imagine the potential ally the Commonwealth would be for them; it's nearly as large as the Empire,[/Q]

The commonwealth is 1/50th the size of the Empire or so, remember rommie saying 1.5 million worlds or so? The Empire has 51 million worlds.

[Q]months to years away from Imperial reach, and it has an affinity toward hating and overthrowing dictatorships. The reaction of the Empire should be priceless when they have to deal with the Commonwealth who now has their too big advantages FTL sensors and shields.[/Q]

Hardly, since it's unlikely to ever happen, nor is it probable that they can just slap it on like that, or that they have the power generation required to keep them functional at any effective level.

[Q]At that point the Empire is going to be slowly whittled away by the Commonwealth[/Q]

Hardly since the commonwealth doesn't has enough firepower to meet imperial ships except when they outnumber them quite a bit, they are going to have a helluva tough time doing JS to the Empire.

Their range advantage isn't all that either, especially not with Imperial jamming and the fact that PSP's are not that bad at hitting their ships either(propagates at .4-5c or so), and they are slow compared to turbolasers.
It's going to be a slaughter for the CW and I most sincerely doubt they are going to have any major victories except when they meet lone small ships.

[His Divine Shadow]

Note, bring back editing for cripes sake.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Go out and buy a clue will you.

Kiss my ass.

Pg. 3: Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt" is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed...
(ref: Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections)

Actually, in the movies, the invisible part of the turbolaser seldom ever outraces the visible bolt and only by a small margin. And as you know, in canon, movies trumps technical manuels. But even if it the turbolasers uses massless particles, the AG fields of the CW vessels can counter the gravity of a black hole (though, not completely, otherwise, Dylan would have never been trapped in the black hole in the first place). So, the AG fields can provide some protection.

[omegaLancer]

Cool move, except suns donot produce anti protons. They do product protons (1/2) of what needed..