Your thoughts on the Gundam series

[DPDarkPrimus]

That reminds me, what would SEED have been like if Kira had actually died where he presumably should have?

What would SEED be like if Kira got caught by L?

[Ford Prefect]

Kudos DP.

I've given it some thought, and as un-likely to fly past executive producers as it may be, I think a Corperate villian might be a nice place to start.

Don't worry, basically all my ideas wouldn't pass muster themselves (though they actually share some similarities with your own in places). For the purposes of this thread Kill 'Em All's sunglasses give you powers that meddling executives would never have dreamed off.

That reminds me, what would SEED have been like if Kira had actually died where he presumably should have?

It would probably have been widely praised for its massive set of balls, I guess.

At least that makes sense in terms of Macross. The sticks are supposed to double as manual arm controls.

Frontier has been really good with making this explicit, and the addition of the master-slave ex-gear give their controls surprising plausibility.

Up until Char's Counterattack and a lot of the AU designs, most Gundam cockpit control schemes were way too sparse.

I wonder how far it could be taken before it just got too silly? I've always been fond of the Gunbuster Machine Weapons and their cockpit designs, with their gauges and stuff plastering every surface. Thinking of the cockpits, I've been struck recently by how Gundam 00 tended to give the real Gundams inferior looking visual set-ups - three screens compared to the fairly panoramic cockpits of a Flag or Enact. I suppose it's supposed to be a concession to earlier designs or something like that.

Probably the weirdest disconnect between what the controls do and what we see on screen was in 08th MS team where one of the guerrilla guys is in Shiro's Gundam and he pulls one throttle which makes the head turn.

[Vehrec]

-Killing off half the main cast by the pen-ultimate episode. Including the best character.

Gee, only half the main cast? And you'll wait until the penultimate epsiode?

You've got a ways to go before you're called the new "Kill Em All Tomino".

Its a gradual killing-off. People die on and off from the first episode to the last, and it should be rare to have a combat that doesn't end with casualties on both sides.

[Commander 598]

That reminds me, what would SEED have been like if Kira had actually died where he presumably should have?

It would probably have been widely praised for its massive set of balls, I guess.

Think about it: Without Kira there is no need for a Freedom Gundam, there is no need for THREE somewhat comparable drug addicted pilots, there would likely be no melee specializing Justice Gundam without a super long-range firepower Freedom to balance it, and the Three Ship's Alliance/Clyne Faction would never happen without their Death God. It basically fixes most of SEED's major problems.

Up until Char's Counterattack and a lot of the AU designs, most Gundam cockpit control schemes were way too sparse.

Honestly, I don't think so. All the most basic functions that take up 95% of screen time can easily be given "press buttan" functionality by way of automation. Arm controls would probably accessed through a sub-system/menu in the MS's HUD, sort of a manual mode or something. Add in the dozens of other switches present in your average OYW cockpit and it looks like plenty to me.

Char didn't kick the Gundam with his Zaku because he had manual control of the foot, he kicked the Gundam probably because his Zaku's onboard computer systems recognized that it was about to collide with an object and reoriented itself in the best possible way to take minimum damage on impact, or he already had it oriented the right way and the computer recognized that it was about to "step" on an object and took measures to ensure minimal damage.

Similarly, Karen Joshua didn't manually hurl her Gundam backwards in 08th Team when trying to shoot a Dom that had just boosted over her, she probably used the control that handles direction/facing(Left stick/throttle, IIRC) to lean it back as far as possible while possibly tapping the "gas pedal" which would in turn would cause it to jump backwards since that's really the only place it could go.

The right stick/throttle supposedly controls which way your weapon is pointing which could have some semi-manual implications with a melee weapon.

The only flaw, is that I'm not sure how the "throttle" style controls work. Sticks work perfectly fine, but the throttles don't. This would be retconned out in my nMSG. I'm assuming that Sunrise/Tomino noticed which is why they seem so rare in any post OYW/AU setting. (Except SEED)

[Commander 598]

Also:

-AI operated units rebel against their masters and turn the tide of the war.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b329/ ... 902655.jpg

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

That reminds me, what would SEED have been like if Kira had actually died where he presumably should have?

It would probably have been widely praised for its massive set of balls, I guess.

Think about it: Without Kira there is no need for a Freedom Gundam, there is no need for THREE somewhat comparable drug addicted pilots, there would likely be no melee specializing Justice Gundam without a super long-range firepower Freedom to balance it, and the Three Ship's Alliance/Clyne Faction would never happen without their Death God. It basically fixes most of SEED's major problems.

Even if Kira had died, ZAFT would have still built the Justice and Freedom Gundams anyway, Patrick Zala would have still made his messy power grab (thus triggering the defection of the Clyne Faction), and the Earth Alliance would have still proceeded with its Extended Human project. You're only treating one symptom of the overall disease.

At that point in the series, I think that the simplest solution would have been not to have Kira die, but to have Kira kill Athrun instead. Kira gets picked up by the Archangel and angsts about the fact that he killed his childhood friend for a while, but he gets slapped back to reality in a timely manner. Without the acquisition of Freedom, Kira will just have to pwn everyone the old-fashioned way, with the Strike Gundam; when the Clyne Faction does defect, Kira will have some actual practical experience under his belt when he does start piloting Freedom. Hopefully, knowing how to kill things manually will teach him to use Freedom and the METEOR more responsibly (read: not beam-spamming anything that looks hostile).

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Didn't Gundam already do the AI thing with Blue Destiny?

[Commander 598]

It would probably have been widely praised for its massive set of balls, I guess.

Think about it: Without Kira there is no need for a Freedom Gundam, there is no need for THREE somewhat comparable drug addicted pilots, there would likely be no melee specializing Justice Gundam without a super long-range firepower Freedom to balance it, and the Three Ship's Alliance/Clyne Faction would never happen without their Death God. It basically fixes most of SEED's major problems.

Even if Kira had died, ZAFT would have still built the Justice and Freedom Gundams anyway, Patrick Zala would have still made his messy power grab (thus triggering the defection of the Clyne Faction), and the Earth Alliance would have still proceeded with its Extended Human project. You're only treating one symptom of the overall disease.

At that point in the series, I think that the simplest solution would have been not to have Kira die, but to have Kira kill Athrun instead. Kira gets picked up by the Archangel and angsts about the fact that he killed his childhood friend for a while, but he gets slapped back to reality in a timely manner. Without the acquisition of Freedom, Kira will just have to pwn everyone the old-fashioned way, with the Strike Gundam; when the Clyne Faction does defect, Kira will have some actual practical experience under his belt when he does start piloting Freedom. Hopefully, knowing how to kill things manually will teach him to use Freedom and the METEOR more responsibly (read: not beam-spamming anything that looks hostile).

I was talking mostly story wise, you know, like what purpose does a pair of super-MS with basically exact opposite characteristics serve in the story line if there aren't two super-pilots, etc.

If the Clyne Faction did do it's thing anyway, it would either be in a much less beam spammy way or it would die in very short order at the hands of GINN swarms without Kira there to save them with Freedom, like he did. Also, no Justice/Freedom, no Eternal (It was built specifically for those two Gundams, IIRC) and no Eternal = No METEOR. Also, I may be remembering wrong, but part of the Zala power grab was enabled by Kira absconding with one of ZAFT's super-secret projects courtesy of the Chairman's daughter, right? I don't think you can find a faster way to lose your power short of shooting someone the public really, really likes with no good excuse.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Think about it: Without Kira there is no need for a Freedom Gundam, there is no need for THREE somewhat comparable drug addicted pilots, there would likely be no melee specializing Justice Gundam without a super long-range firepower Freedom to balance it, and the Three Ship's Alliance/Clyne Faction would never happen without their Death God. It basically fixes most of SEED's major problems.

Even if Kira had died, ZAFT would have still built the Justice and Freedom Gundams anyway, Patrick Zala would have still made his messy power grab (thus triggering the defection of the Clyne Faction), and the Earth Alliance would have still proceeded with its Extended Human project. You're only treating one symptom of the overall disease.

At that point in the series, I think that the simplest solution would have been not to have Kira die, but to have Kira kill Athrun instead. Kira gets picked up by the Archangel and angsts about the fact that he killed his childhood friend for a while, but he gets slapped back to reality in a timely manner. Without the acquisition of Freedom, Kira will just have to pwn everyone the old-fashioned way, with the Strike Gundam; when the Clyne Faction does defect, Kira will have some actual practical experience under his belt when he does start piloting Freedom. Hopefully, knowing how to kill things manually will teach him to use Freedom and the METEOR more responsibly (read: not beam-spamming anything that looks hostile).

I was talking mostly story wise, you know, like what purpose does a pair of super-MS with basically exact opposite characteristics serve in the story line if there aren't two super-pilots, etc.

If the Clyne Faction did do it's thing anyway, it would either be in a much less beam spammy way or it would die in very short order at the hands of GINN swarms without Kira there to save them with Freedom, like he did. Also, no Justice/Freedom, no Eternal (It was built specifically for those two Gundams, IIRC) and no Eternal = No METEOR. Also, I may be remembering wrong, but part of the Zala power grab was enabled by Kira absconding with one of ZAFT's super-secret projects courtesy of the Chairman's daughter, right? I don't think you can find a faster way to lose your power short of shooting someone the public really, really likes with no good excuse.

The Freedom Gundam was the super-secret ZAFT project that Kira stole with Lacus' help. They had already built Freedom, and it would be reasonable to assume that the Justice Gundam, the Eternal, and the METEOR weapons packs were either complete or in the final stages of construction at that time as well; had things proceeded without Kira and Lacus' interference, all they needed to do was to do some final touch-up work, assign crews, and test their capabilities. Of course, Kira's theft of Freedom and the subsequent coup by Patrick Zala made what would be a reasonable estimate of ZAFT's standard procedure a moot point anyway.

That said, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Kira didn't steal Freedom. With Siegel Clyne still in power and stonewalling the hardliners, maybe Patrick Zala and his guys would have been the ones to defect instead.

[Commander 598]

Even if Kira had died, ZAFT would have still built the Justice and Freedom Gundams anyway, Patrick Zala would have still made his messy power grab (thus triggering the defection of the Clyne Faction), and the Earth Alliance would have still proceeded with its Extended Human project. You're only treating one symptom of the overall disease.

At that point in the series, I think that the simplest solution would have been not to have Kira die, but to have Kira kill Athrun instead. Kira gets picked up by the Archangel and angsts about the fact that he killed his childhood friend for a while, but he gets slapped back to reality in a timely manner. Without the acquisition of Freedom, Kira will just have to pwn everyone the old-fashioned way, with the Strike Gundam; when the Clyne Faction does defect, Kira will have some actual practical experience under his belt when he does start piloting Freedom. Hopefully, knowing how to kill things manually will teach him to use Freedom and the METEOR more responsibly (read: not beam-spamming anything that looks hostile).

I was talking mostly story wise, you know, like what purpose does a pair of super-MS with basically exact opposite characteristics serve in the story line if there aren't two super-pilots, etc.

If the Clyne Faction did do it's thing anyway, it would either be in a much less beam spammy way or it would die in very short order at the hands of GINN swarms without Kira there to save them with Freedom, like he did. Also, no Justice/Freedom, no Eternal (It was built specifically for those two Gundams, IIRC) and no Eternal = No METEOR. Also, I may be remembering wrong, but part of the Zala power grab was enabled by Kira absconding with one of ZAFT's super-secret projects courtesy of the Chairman's daughter, right? I don't think you can find a faster way to lose your power short of shooting someone the public really, really likes with no good excuse.

The Freedom Gundam was the super-secret ZAFT project that Kira stole with Lacus' help.

What part of my post led you to believe that I was unaware of that fact thus leading you to use italics and point out to me something that I already knew?

They had already built Freedom, and it would be reasonable to assume that the Justice Gundam, the Eternal, and the METEOR weapons packs were either complete or in the final stages of construction at that time as well; had things proceeded without Kira and Lacus' interference, all they needed to do was to do some final touch-up work, assign crews, and test their capabilities. Of course, Kira's theft of Freedom and the subsequent coup by Patrick Zala made what would be a reasonable estimate of ZAFT's standard procedure a moot point anyway.

You're still missing the part where there's no point in even writing Freedom in the story if there's no one to pilot them, and without Freedom it would be pretty hard to justify the all melee Justice Gundam as well as well as pretty much everything else relating to the godly technicolor rape machine that is the Freedom Gundam. And I forgot - No Freedom/Justice, no need for nuclear power, so no NJC.

Going back to one of your previous comments:

You're only treating one symptom of the overall disease.

It's a pretty major part of it though. Storywise, Freedom + Justice required the three Druggies to attempt to balance things out. Without them, it's very easy to scale back the giant backpack and moar beamz syndrome that things suffered from after the midway point of SEED.

Another: Without Freedom to fly all the way from lunar orbit and miraculously show up just in time to save the Archangel's ass in Alaska, they either die, find some creative escape route, or you have to write out that super weapon (Cyclops wasn't it?) in exchange for something more creative like an actual battle with a winner and loser.

You could also find a more interesting use for Fllay with the gap in the Archangel's crew Kira's death would create other than continuing to do pretty much nothing of value only on someone else's ship until death.

[Ford Prefect]

Didn't Gundam already do the AI thing with Blue Destiny?

I think Blue Destiny is closer to 'that Evangelion thing', what with the EXAM system contained a soul and could go berserk.

[VF5SS]

The Superior Gundam's ALICE system was a true AI that could take over the MS when it needed to.

[Ford Prefect]

The Stargazer has an AI as well, which was expected to replace the pilot entirely. However, I'm not so sure about the merits of a rebelious AI plot in a hypothetical Gundam series, simply because it's one of those things which has gotten pretty old.

[Ford Prefect]

EDIT: At least, certainly not in the sort of significant numbers that you'd expect for an actual rebellion. Slightly more complex motivations like those of Sharon Apple (which wasn't realy an AI rebellion) are different.

[Icehawk]

Brand new extended trailer for MS IGLOO 2: Gravity's Battlefront available. [url=mms://ach.sri.jp/ach/igloo2_pv02_l.wmv]HERE (High quality)[/url] and [url=mms://ach.sri.jp/ach/igloo2_pv02_s.wmv]HERE (Low Bandwidth)[/url]

Hot DAMN, much improved CGI, battles look to be mighty kickass. Wow, the poor Earth Feddies. Their hulking new AT missile is gonna need some work it seems.

[Ford Prefect]

I think the original Gundam was an AI* too. There was a lot of discussion about how the Gundam's computer would learn from previous battles to make it more effective later. It fits in beautifully with the highly automated control set - the pilot gives broad instructions then leaves the details to the computer.

Even so, I think it would have to be considered different from something like the S Gundam, which is able to control itself without any sort of pilot input.

This would also help to explain why it did so well in early battles with its n00blar pilot: the computer was really the special thing all along. Of course, later on, we were meant to believe it was all because of Amuro's new type abilities. I'm not a big fan of focus on Newtypes; I really prefer the AI explanation, which also fits in with how I expect space combat would be most realistically done.

Personally, I tend to put much more stock into the actual capabilities of the pilots. For example, Char wasn't awesome because Char was a Newtype, Char was just that good. It was only until later that being a Newtype was all that important, what with the heightened spatial awareness allowing to coordination of the massively overpowered power of bits/funnels.

[VF5SS]

Hot DAMN, much improved CGI, battles look to be mighty kickass. Wow, the poor Earth Feddies. Their hulking new AT missile is gonna need some work it seems.

Hooray it failed. Now that Zaku is gonna KICK SOME ASS! Hopefully this will have more Federation bashing because why change the status quo?

[Ryushikaze]

Didn't Gundam already do the AI thing with Blue Destiny?

I think Blue Destiny is closer to 'that Evangelion thing', what with the EXAM system contained a soul and could go berserk.

More accurately, it was someone's consciousness at least partly uploaded into the computer of the unit, with their body managing to survive mostly on autopilot due to some sort of newtype skullduggery. And the machine didn't go berserk, though they thought it had (the mind stuck inside the computer was acting rather rationally in the interest of its own self preservation).

Did they ever translate more than the first volume of Blue Destiny? I rather liked it.

[VF5SS]

I think there's only one volume. You have to play the Sega Saturn games to get the full story. Or you could play the G-Generation game that features the Blue Destiny story. Nothing this deadly has even been this cute

[Ryushikaze]

I think there's only one volume. You have to play the Sega Saturn games to get the full story. Or you could play the G-Generation game that features the Blue Destiny story. Nothing this deadly has even been this cute

I could have sworn there was at least a second volume, though I did know the story finished in the games.
I'll have to hunt them down then. I don't suppose the G Gen game got an English release? I'm not holding my breath on the Saturn game.

[Commander 598]

Even so, I think it would have to be considered different from something like the S Gundam, which is able to control itself without any sort of pilot input.

True.

Personally, I tend to put much more stock into the actual capabilities of the pilots.

I'd like to think it is a combination: the pilots decide which target to attack and when, then the computer finishes the job.

In fleet action, this could be the most important thing. Do I go after that random fighter closing on me or ignore him and hit the battleship? The pilot makes that decision, then the computer carries it out.

Knowing when to shoot or swing is also the pilot's decision, and may make a difference in 1v1 fights too. This is where I'd expect a guy like Char to shine. He knows just how to time his move for best effect (and has his 3x faster Zaku to implement it with minimal lag).

If you have ever played the Federation vs Zeon video game on the PS2, it actually is very similar to what I have in mind. I bitch at the game for not allowing me manual aiming since its auto aiming is a bit of a pain, but the general idea of its gameplay is close to what I'm thinking about.

For example, Char wasn't awesome because Char was a Newtype, Char was just that good.

I can get behind this

What do you mean by "carries it out"? What's there to carry out? Just put your crosshair on the target and press the trigger. The most your average automation has been insinuated to do beyond the most basic is adjusting to dodge or block incoming fire as well as handling just wear your melee weapon goes when you pull the trigger, though like I said you may have some level of control there since you would still be using the same control that points your weapons in whatever direction.

[Ford Prefect]

Well, curiosity got the better of me, and so I went and watched the first two episodes of SEED Destiny. And you know what? It was better than the first two epsidoes of SEED ... sort of.

First of all, the opening part of it almost had the same sort of impact as 00's opening. Bam, an island is being invaded, hell is breaking loose, people are getting their ruined. Run nuclear family, run! Otoh-san, what's your prognosis? They'll probably focus their attacks on military targets first, but let's get the fuck out of here regardless. Gundams in the air - hey, it's Kira. Oh snap, Mayu's phone, presumably with some sort of irreplacable sentimental value (or otherwise she's just retarded). Shinn Asuka reacts instantly, given me the first impression of a dude who does not mess around. Too bad that it was a totally futile act.

NOW WE WITNESS THE HUMAN SUFFERING CAUSED BY THE ABUSE OF BEAM SPAM.

Seriously, this is basically genius. In one fell move, everything wrong about kicking ass in giant robots is revealed. It harkens to the collateral damage which was a minor plot-point in the Azadistan arc on 00. It gives our man Shinn a driving motive. Great. Cue OP. Not so great. Admittedly it's not a bad OP, just pretty generic. No problem. Cue episode proper.

At this point, I can only really sumarise what I've noticed, simply because my memory of the order of the events is foggy already. First of all, Gilbert Durandal is one sexy beast (though not this sexy, or even this sexy), and Mu's mask is actually really awesome. And that's probably the only time you'll here praise from me when it comes to character design for SEED.

The first two episodes are all focussed around the three drug addicts and their version of the raid fromt he first two episodes of SEED. This is actually pretty ironic, and it got a smile out of me. The fact that the green-haired one's name is Sting is actually pretty awesome. Not so their fucking crazy attack. While I actually have no problem with engineered MS pilots being ludicrously killy, and in principle I have no problem with them pulling some crazy shit (like basically everything Spinzaku does in Geass, at which I don't even bat an eye). But this was just ... weird. Holy shit, Sting actually holds his dual carbines like John Prestons holds his handguns in Equilibrium! Auel or whatever actually replicates Trinity in the Matrix! And then Dante from Devil May Cry! And meanwhile Stellar is flying through the air with her scary knife!

I can't tell you exactly why, but rather than being badass (which it frankly should have been), it's just plain silly. Really silly. Sillier than a ZAFT helmet, goddammit. And their new Gundams are fairly silly looking as well, but they're not awful (Gaia Gundam could have done without being able to transform, though). The best part of this was that it forced Athrun to get the fuck in a Zaku, and start kicking ass. Oh, my bad, ZAKU. Why would you make ZAKU an acronym? You fucks.

Anyway, this eventually leads to the brand new red white and blue Gundam being unleashed: Impulse Gundam. Impulse Gundam is crap. I was shaking my head throughout the entire launching sequence. I'm fine with transforming. I'm fine with strap on missiles and cannons and shit. I am even fine with combining (Big Gunbuster fan). I am not fine with the legs of a Gundam flying through the air independantly to link up with the other parts above a battlezone. Everything about this whole thing is wrong, though it's titanic beam sabers are pretty cool. But worst of all is its pilot.

Shinn was fine at the beginning of the series. Yeah, gets shit done, tragic past, fine. Then he shows up towards the beginning of the first episode to grope Stellar's tits. Yeah, par for the course in anime, I know. It happens accidentally to everyone. Except this accident didn't even have thin justification like Rei pulling you over by the glasses or running into some turbulence in your variable fighter. They walk into each other and Shinn is cupping her breasts. He apparently doesn't realise it (and she doesn't really seem to care), which makes him look totally without clue, without coordination and without balls. Stellar's not exactly Sumeragi here, but c'mon. He basically doesn't appear until Impulse Gundam appears (they attempt to make it mysterious, but it's obvious). And then he endears himself to us all by screaming his ideals at Sting and his crew. Yea,h okay, we get it, Jesus Yamoto killed your family. War killed your family. Undoubtedly you joined the military to enact vengeance or ... something, I'm not going to try and fathom it out exactly. If the only thing missing from Kira's introduction was a reference to how enormous his penis is, the only thing missing from Shinn's appearance was some Linkin Park music. I'm glad that they learnt how to handle that sort of personal theme by the time of 00; I don't think I could have handled it if Setsuna or Lockon were actively obnoxious when it came to their opinions and reactions on war/terrorism.

I seriously hope that this thread actually influences me to go watch some good Gundam soon.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, curiosity got the better of me, and so I went and watched the first two episodes of SEED Destiny. And you know what? It was better than the first two epsidoes of SEED ... sort of.

First of all, the opening part of it almost had the same sort of impact as 00's opening. Bam, an island is being invaded, hell is breaking loose, people are getting their ruined. Run nuclear family, run! Otoh-san, what's your prognosis? They'll probably focus their attacks on military targets first, but let's get the fuck out of here regardless. Gundams in the air - hey, it's Kira. Oh snap, Mayu's phone, presumably with some sort of irreplacable sentimental value (or otherwise she's just retarded). Shinn Asuka reacts instantly, given me the first impression of a dude who does not mess around. Too bad that it was a totally futile act.

Part of the issue for me with this scene was that they weren't doing anything sane. Yeah, horrors of war, but I have to shake my head at the family whose emergency evac route takes them in the direction of the major battle. Also, if you watch longer, you'll find that Shinn is very big on doing utterly futile things based on unconstrained emotion. There's a reason I call him a bad Xerox of Camille.

NOW WE WITNESS THE HUMAN SUFFERING CAUSED BY THE ABUSE OF BEAM SPAM.

It's been awhile since I watched the first ep, but I thought it was someone other than Kira who fired the killing shot, Kira and Beamspam gundam just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not that I disagree that beamspam is stupid, I just didn't recall this being directly caused by it (indirectly, very yes. He led the suit over towards the Island, IIRC).

Seriously, this is basically genius. In one fell move, everything wrong about kicking ass in giant robots is revealed. It harkens to the collateral damage which was a minor plot-point in the Azadistan arc on 00. It gives our man Shinn a driving motive. Great. Cue OP. Not so great. Admittedly it's not a bad OP, just pretty generic. No problem. Cue episode proper.

At this point, I can only really sumarise what I've noticed, simply because my memory of the order of the events is foggy already. First of all, Gilbert Durandal is one sexy beast (though not this sexy, or even this sexy), and Mu's mask is actually really awesome. And that's probably the only time you'll here praise from me when it comes to character design for SEED.

That's because it's the only time in SEED that the character design is different.

I can't tell you exactly why, but rather than being badass (which it frankly should have been), it's just plain silly. Really silly. Sillier than a ZAFT helmet, goddammit. And their new Gundams are fairly silly looking as well, but they're not awful (Gaia Gundam could have done without being able to transform, though). The best part of this was that it forced Athrun to get the fuck in a Zaku, and start kicking ass. Oh, my bad, ZAKU. Why would you make ZAKU an acronym? You fucks.

Because EVERYTHING is an acronym in the Seed-verse. GUNDAM (which is what, three different acronyms? Four?), SEED, etc.

Anyway, this eventually leads to the brand new red white and blue Gundam being unleashed: Impulse Gundam. Impulse Gundam is crap. I was shaking my head throughout the entire launching sequence. I'm fine with transforming. I'm fine with strap on missiles and cannons and shit. I am even fine with combining (Big Gunbuster fan). I am not fine with the legs of a Gundam flying through the air independantly to link up with the other parts above a battlezone. Everything about this whole thing is wrong, though it's titanic beam sabers are pretty cool. But worst of all is its pilot.

That was a major part of what killed Destiny for me. It was obvious in both Seed and Destiny that they were trying to recapture the spirit of 0079, and not doing it quite right. Impulse's mid air connect hearkens back to Amuro doing emergency refits and part swaps during battle in the original series, but that was an emergency thing, not a standard operating procedure. If they assembled it in-ship, then launched, it would have been so much less blah.
Even V gundam had the three different parts be individually usable and piloted when separated.

Shinn was fine at the beginning of the series. Yeah, gets shit done, tragic past, fine. Then he shows up towards the beginning of the first episode to grope Stellar's tits. Yeah, par for the course in anime, I know. It happens accidentally to everyone. Except this accident didn't even have thin justification like Rei pulling you over by the glasses or running into some turbulence in your variable fighter. They walk into each other and Shinn is cupping her breasts. He apparently doesn't realise it (and she doesn't really seem to care), which makes him look totally without clue, without coordination and without balls. Stellar's not exactly Sumeragi here, but c'mon. He basically doesn't appear until Impulse Gundam appears (they attempt to make it mysterious, but it's obvious). And then he endears himself to us all by screaming his ideals at Sting and his crew. Yea,h okay, we get it, Jesus Yamoto killed your family. War killed your family. Undoubtedly you joined the military to enact vengeance or ... something, I'm not going to try and fathom it out exactly. If the only thing missing from Kira's introduction was a reference to how enormous his penis is, the only thing missing from Shinn's appearance was some Linkin Park music. I'm glad that they learnt how to handle that sort of personal theme by the time of 00; I don't think I could have handled it if Setsuna or Lockon were actively obnoxious when it came to their opinions and reactions on war/terrorism.

And on top of all that, Shinn only got more irritating as the show wore on.

I seriously hope that this thread actually influences me to go watch some good Gundam soon. :D

I'd jokingly suggest ZZ or G savior, but I think both of those are better than Destiny, so hey, might as well.

[Black Admiral]

Frankly what annoyed me most about Destiny is the irritating self-righteousness of a lot of the ZAFT characters; this reaching a peak with Talia and the Minerva's Chief Medical Officer show absolutely no problems with handing over a prisoner of war for vivisection.

Ryushikaze: I'm fairly sure Kira's the one responsible for killing Shinn's family, however accidentally. IIRC the damage came from beam shots angled down, and at that moment Kira was the only one shooting down.

[Saxtonite]

That reminds me, what would SEED have been like if Kira had actually died where he presumably should have?

the Archangel would be either shot down by ZAFT or caught in CYCLOPS and destroyed at JOSH-A, Orb would fall quicker, and ZAFT might have a better defense when retreating from Earth due to Freedom and Justice being still controlled by ZAFT (possibly, or the Clyne Faction stil steals them). And the Earth Alliance would have a better chance of winning as they would have nuked all the PLANTs and possibly have enough force after GENESIS hits to destroy Jachin Due.