T:SCC 2x22 "Born To Run"

[Stark]

Why? It doesn't take a brilliant plan to throw hooks at nerds and see what sticks - if there's one thing we should learn from nBSG it's that you can almost write a TV show based on fan responses to the random shit you insert into episodes. I'm not saying this is that bad, but that I can't take seriuosly any attempt at 'detective work' to try and understand what the writers are planning when they probably have no idea themselves. The whole meta thing is useless when there's nothing to discover.

[PREDATOR490]

What was she gonna do, without a gun? Attack Weaver with her fists?

This is the same woman who was going to attack Crom. with the edges of a tin can in desperation. Obviously attacking her is out but a bit more verbal commentary would have been sensible.
Instead Weaver just tramples over Sarah Connor - which personnaly I find quite cool for Weaver to do - and Sarah just takes it.

Given Sarahs wild fanatic hatred of Skynet I would have expected more than a single snap followed by her promptly sitting back so the scene can progress to the 'jump in time'
It's not like she just accused Weaver of building the very thing she has hunted for and is trusting the fate of her son in a time machine built by Weaver going to noone knows where with whatever is waiting on the other side. Realistically, one would have expected Sarah to pull John back and get answers from Weaver NOW. It's not like time is at stake when your sitting with a time machine.

John would not have followed his mother, being in this state and he is far away from his mother being able to pull him back.

John is stubborn and reckless but as Cameron pointed out he does listen and has demonstrated an ability to think rationally. At least trying to get more information out of Weaver would have made sense, instead she decides to trust the fate of her son and the fucking world to someone she has little reason to trust. Nevermind John is being a selfish prat by literally throwing the fate of the entire world away to save his lifesized fantasy lovedoll.

She actually isn't a T-888. I wonder why you continue to bring that one up despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

... The model that interogated Allison Young was a T-888 was it not ?

No. Actually, we do not know if that one was Cameron.

The episode makes it fairly obvious Cameron is the one doing the interogation.

The T-888 asks Allison about the braclet and Allison gives her a BS story.
Later in the episode Cameron comes back and specifically says 'You Lied to ME, you told me your sister gave you that bracelet'
Additonally, we see Cameron changing from the voice of the T-888 to Allison's on screen.

Conclusion. Cameron is that Terminator and if that thing is a T-888 - which the CGI remains consistant towards, then Cameron is a T-888 originally.

That Terminator is then revealed to be Cameron after she assumes Allison's visage, no ?
That thing looked exactly the same as the CGI Terminators scene in the first season.

And yet Cameron is always described as an unknown model by T-888s.

As stated, the scene does not state she is an unknown model. This of course dosent bring up the simple fact that Skynet Terminators might not be programmed to identify other models of Terminator as standard.

Cameron has been storing spare parts from T-888s to repair herself, 'Cyberdyne Skynet' stole John Henry's identity and targeted Cameron as the same model to tell Thug dude to pull her chip. John Henry also asks Ellison if Cameron is like him to which the answer appears yes. This strikes me as fairly indicative she is phyiscally a T-888.

No, she is not. Otherwise the spare parts would fit without having to be modified and she would be actually be recognized as a T-888. Finally, her HUD and her interface is completely different.

John Henry was asking if she was a machine with that comment. I wouldn't read too much into that.

How would she be recognised as a T-888 if Skynet T's dont have the programming to do so, they are designed to kill humans not engage each other normally ?
Cameron could be programmed different due to being part of a different faction of T's and we know she was reprogrammed by Connor. Her interface and hud remain utterly irrelevant to proving wether or not she is a T-888 by SOFTWARE unless we get a shot of her HUD BEFORE she was captured or in the T resistance.

The software isnt the issue here, it's the HARDWARE. To which she clearly started out as physically similar to a T-888. There is also the simple fact that Cameron was apparantly by Connor's side for some time and may have required chop shop maintenance from Connor which will cause Skynet T's to be unable to identify her to 'standard factory defaults'.

The thing that makes her unique is her programming and experiences. Her eyes being blue seems like a really dodgey basis to claim she is different when apparantly her eyes are now standard red. There is no other indication she has physical differences from standard T-888s that I am aware.

As others have said, her eye might have been replaced or just have been outfitted with a different lens. Colour vision and her HUD are other differences.

Then whats to say that blue lens was the original in the first place ?
We see her interogate Allison with a red eye and after coming back from Connor Camp she has blue. Hence, someone changed her eyes to blue.
As for the 'colour vision' - this dosent indicate complete model hardware changes. This could simply be the lens in the eye or a result of the re-programming of John Connor.
We dont know if this was her original HUD and colour before her capture or during her tenure as Rebel T.

[Thanas]

Why? It doesn't take a brilliant plan to throw hooks at nerds and see what sticks - if there's one thing we should learn from nBSG it's that you can almost write a TV show based on fan responses to the random shit you insert into episodes. I'm not saying this is that bad, but that I can't take seriuosly any attempt at 'detective work' to try and understand what the writers are planning when they probably have no idea themselves. The whole meta thing is useless when there's nothing to discover.

C'mon Stark. Do you know the writers of this show or their previous work? Did you see this show?

Basically, you are assuming that there is nothing to discover...except that this show does indeed have plots that have been running over two seasons now. And yes, allegedly, Friedman wrote the general plot before pushing the show.

So frankly, forgive me if I cannot share your viewpoint.

[Stark]

I'm speaking in a generally cynical way, since to me the TSSC threads and the nBSG threads look pretty much the same (with the emotional investment and aimless speculation). Once the show dies without having a proper end, you'll see. Even worse, the climax and point the writers wanted to make could turn out to be DAFT even if they did have an idea. Remember, Moore appaerntly knew what he wanted to do with nBSG too, but he still shuffled and emphasised based on what 'stuck' with fans.

EDIT - I'll stop cluttering up the thread with my amatuer nerd sociology, though.

[Thanas]

What was she gonna do, without a gun? Attack Weaver with her fists?

This is the same woman who was going to attack Crom. with the edges of a tin can in desperation. Obviously attacking her is out but a bit more verbal commentary would have been sensible.
Instead Weaver just tramples over Sarah Connor - which personnaly I find quite cool for Weaver to do - and Sarah just takes it.

Any long verbal bitchfest would have just distracted from the story at that moment IMO.

John is stubborn and reckless but as Cameron pointed out he does listen and has demonstrated an ability to think rationally. At least trying to get more information out of Weaver would have made sense, instead she decides to trust the fate of her son and the fucking world to someone she has little reason to trust. Nevermind John is being a selfish prat by literally throwing the fate of the entire world away to save his lifesized fantasy lovedoll.

Meh. When Weaver started the clock, it was either go or get left behind. Weaver obviously wasn't going to tell them where John Henry went. Besides, it was Sarah who decided to leave him behind - she did have the option of going with him.

The episode makes it fairly obvious Cameron is the one doing the interogation.

The T-888 asks Allison about the braclet and Allison gives her a BS story.
Later in the episode Cameron comes back and specifically says 'You Lied to ME, you told me your sister gave you that bracelet'
Additonally, we see Cameron changing from the voice of the T-888 to Allison's on screen.

Conclusion. Cameron is that Terminator and if that thing is a T-888 - which the CGI remains consistant towards, then Cameron is a T-888 originally.

She is not. For example, the Fox site states:

A reprogrammed Terminator, Cameron poses as John's sister. Her model number is a mystery. However, she is an advanced cyborg unlike any we have ever seen; with uniquely human characteristics and drop-dead looks, she is the most lethal and convincing infiltrator yet. Cameron's origins and relationship with John Connor in the future remain unknown, but her mission in the present is quite clear: relentlessly, she must protect John Connor at all costs.

Do I have to actually go and get the producers to confirm that she is not a T-888?

As stated, the scene does not state she is an unknown model. This of course dosent bring up the simple fact that Skynet Terminators might not be programmed to identify other models of Terminator as standard.

Contradicted in Episode 4 of Season 1, in which Cameron was able to identify Carter as a T-888.

As for the 'colour vision' - this dosent indicate complete model hardware changes. This could simply be the lens in the eye or a result of the re-programming of John Connor.

Why would the resistance reprogram her with colour vision, being strapped for resources as they are?

I'm speaking in a generally cynical way, since to me the TSSC threads and the nBSG threads look pretty much the same (with the emotional investment and aimless speculation). Once the show dies without having a proper end, you'll see. Even worse, the climax and point the writers wanted to make could turn out to be DAFT even if they did have an idea. Remember, Moore appaerntly knew what he wanted to do with nBSG too, but he still shuffled and emphasised based on what 'stuck' with fans.

EDIT - I'll stop cluttering up the thread with my amatuer nerd sociology, though.

Ah, so you cynically assume the worst despite ample evidence to the contrary. This show is not nBSG. And Friedman has gone out and said in his blog that he knew fans wouldn't like the decision he made regarding the funeral episode but he decided to do so nevertheless.

[Strandwolf]

This is the same woman who was going to attack Crom. with the edges of a tin can in desperation. Obviously attacking her is out but a bit more verbal commentary would have been sensible.

Don't forget that Sarah is not at the top of her game right now. She has lost Charley and Derek to Skynet. She probably is ill (lost weight, thinks she might have cancer). She fears that Cameron takes her place in her son's life - or even worse, that her son has "feelings" for metal. Simply put, Sarah might have reached her breaking point.

Conclusion. Cameron is that Terminator and if that thing is a T-888 - which the CGI remains consistant towards, then Cameron is a T-888 originally.

I've always had the impression that the T-888 shown in that scene wasn't the one doing the interrogation, but merely a guard. Besides, it would be difficult to fit a standard T-888 chassis inside Summer Glau

[eyexist]

Do I have to actually go and get the producers to confirm that she is not a T-888?

Just to add: Cameron cannot do CAT scans, which T888's have been observed to do (Gnothi Seauton). She's only been able to identify Ts by body language (The tower is Tall but the Fall is Short), structural points (Heavy Metal, Vick's Chip), or archived data for known skin sheaths (Self Made Man).

On Alison From Palmdale I also got the impression that there were at least two Termies in the room Interrogating her. Whenever Cameron would talk the camera would zoom in on the lamp, which is all Alison would see from her perspective. As we've seen from from stereotypical movie interrogations shining a light into your prisoner's eyes is a tactic the bad guys use to conceal their identities. With Cameron being the interrogator it wouldn't make much sense for her to to reveal her identity (Which could be a partially complete skin sheath of Alison) to her. When Cameron's skin is complete she stands beside the lamp, for Alison to see her.

[PREDATOR490]

What was she gonna do, without a gun? Attack Weaver with her fists?

This is the same woman who was going to attack Crom. with the edges of a tin can in desperation. Obviously attacking her is out but a bit more verbal commentary would have been sensible.
Instead Weaver just tramples over Sarah Connor - which personnaly I find quite cool for Weaver to do - and Sarah just takes it.

Any long verbal bitchfest would have just distracted from the story at that moment IMO.

Or added to it by giving some situation information. Instead it is left entirely to speculation and wonder.
Just like the majority of the series and yet it was stated this ending would explain events of this season.

John is stubborn and reckless but as Cameron pointed out he does listen and has demonstrated an ability to think rationally. At least trying to get more information out of Weaver would have made sense, instead she decides to trust the fate of her son and the fucking world to someone she has little reason to trust. Nevermind John is being a selfish prat by literally throwing the fate of the entire world away to save his lifesized fantasy lovedoll.

Meh. When Weaver started the clock, it was either go or get left behind. Weaver obviously wasn't going to tell them where John Henry went. Besides, it was Sarah who decided to leave him behind - she did have the option of going with him.

Sarah made the better choice IMO and frankly this decision on John's part relegates him back to the selfish asshole status.

The episode makes it fairly obvious Cameron is the one doing the interogation.

The T-888 asks Allison about the braclet and Allison gives her a BS story.
Later in the episode Cameron comes back and specifically says 'You Lied to ME, you told me your sister gave you that bracelet'
Additonally, we see Cameron changing from the voice of the T-888 to Allison's on screen.

Conclusion. Cameron is that Terminator and if that thing is a T-888 - which the CGI remains consistant towards, then Cameron is a T-888 originally.

She is not. For example, the Fox site states:

A reprogrammed Terminator, Cameron poses as John's sister. Her model number is a mystery. However, she is an advanced cyborg unlike any we have ever seen; with uniquely human characteristics and drop-dead looks, she is the most lethal and convincing infiltrator yet. Cameron's origins and relationship with John Connor in the future remain unknown, but her mission in the present is quite clear: relentlessly, she must protect John Connor at all costs.

Do I have to actually go and get the producers to confirm that she is not a T-888?

By all means do so.
Regardless, the CGI scene clearly depicts a T-888 appearance and that T-888 is implied to be Cameron.

The only way this makes sense is if the changes to Cameron are internal or superficial. A.K.A She has the physical characteristics of a T-888 but has a better CPU, motherboard, harddrive, graphics card blah blah blah.
Cameron could be a T-888 body with a reprogrammed CPU that makes her a T-889 or be a T-900 with faster internet connection and SLI compatability. Either way, the overall point is, inorder to get her back Connor needs to somehow build another body or get the old one.
If she is as 'unique' then there will be no way to get her back unless you find the people with her system specs. And like this episode implied. Changing the hardware can ultimately change the nature of the AI.
New body for Cameron = Different Cameron

As stated, the scene does not state she is an unknown model. This of course dosent bring up the simple fact that Skynet Terminators might not be programmed to identify other models of Terminator as standard.

Contradicted in Episode 4 of Season 1, in which Cameron was able to identify Carter as a T-888.

This example is irrelevant.
Cameron's ability to identify other T's cannot be used as evidence that normal T's can identify other T's.
1) Cameron is a Rebel T
2) Cameron is a Reprogrammed T by Connor
3) Cameron has been serving as a protector to John for an unknown period of time thus would need to identify potential T attackers.

Unless you can provide evidence that ANY Skynet T can identify other models by visual ID as standard then this is not proof that Vick was unable to identify Cameron because she was a different model.

As for the 'colour vision' - this dosent indicate complete model hardware changes. This could simply be the lens in the eye or a result of the re-programming of John Connor.

Why would the resistance reprogram her with colour vision, being strapped for resources as they are?

Why would Skynet program them with colour vision ?
Maybe the programmer liked Blue rather than red ?
Maybe they wanted to match the lens with her hud ?
Regardless, Cameron had red eyes and somehow got blue ones then has red ones again.
The times we see with red are when her eyes are exposed, the ones with blue are with her meat shell. The blue eyes could simply be a 'pass' like the bracelet to identify her from infiltrators looking like her in the future ?
Fuck knows...

[Singular Intellect]

I find it hard to believe anyone is seriously under the impression the T-888 that grabbed Alison's arm and tattooed her was the chasis that became Cameron.

The Cameron machine that was interrogating Alison made it abundantly clear she was confronting more than one machine there:

Alison: "My name? Why should I tell you?"
Voice: "If you don't, we'll give you one."
Alison: "Go ahead. I'm dying to hear it."

Then we see the T-888 approach her and laser tattoo her arm by force. Additionally, we know what Cromartie's voice sounded like when he had lost his living tissue component, and it sounds nothing like the asexual Cameron voice that Alison was hearing.

[Thanas]

Or added to it by giving some situation information. Instead it is left entirely to speculation and wonder.
Just like the majority of the series and yet it was stated this ending would explain events of this season.

It did explain Weaver and her goals.

Sarah made the better choice IMO and frankly this decision on John's part relegates him back to the selfish asshole status.

Of course he is a selfish asshole. Everyone is a selfish asshole when he is in love. He was following his instincts and while I agree with you that this is not smart thinking, I also have to say that he was right so far.

Do I have to actually go and get the producers to confirm that she is not a T-888?

By all means do so.
Regardless, the CGI scene clearly depicts a T-888 appearance and that T-888 is implied to be Cameron.

The only way this makes sense is if the changes to Cameron are internal or superficial. A.K.A She has the physical characteristics of a T-888 but has a better CPU, motherboard, harddrive, graphics card blah blah blah.
Cameron could be a T-888 body with a reprogrammed CPU that makes her a T-889 or be a T-900 with faster internet connection and SLI compatability. Either way, the overall point is, inorder to get her back Connor needs to somehow build another body or get the old one.
If she is as 'unique' then there will be no way to get her back unless you find the people with her system specs. And like this episode implied. Changing the hardware can ultimately change the nature of the AI.
New body for Cameron = Different Cameron

Singular Intellect has already pointed out that the thing is not as clear cut as you think. Finally, do not make the mistake that what is true about John Henry is also true about a much more advanced hardware.

This example is irrelevant.
Cameron's ability to identify other T's cannot be used as evidence that normal T's can identify other T's.
1) Cameron is a Rebel T

Prove this.

2) Cameron is a Reprogrammed T by Connor
3) Cameron has been serving as a protector to John for an unknown period of time thus would need to identify potential T attackers.

John Connor is famous for using terminators. Therefore, it makes sense that Skynet Ts can do so.

Unless you can provide evidence that ANY Skynet T can identify other models by visual ID as standard then this is not proof that Vick was unable to identify Cameron because she was a different model.

He tries to identify her and is able to recognize that she is a terminator. Why would he spend time doing that unless identifying her would lead him to gain information about her that would be useful in combat?

Indeed, the moment the identification fails, he runs.

[Peptuck]

And like this episode implied. Changing the hardware can ultimately change the nature of the AI.
New body for Cameron = Different Cameron

Except the "only unique" thing in a Terminator is the processor chip. That chip contains the entire personality, memory, and experiences of the Terminator. "Vick's Chip" made this explicitly clear.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to insert Cameron into the LA traffic control network without it completely changing her personality.

The body of the Terminator is just that: a body. It doesn't do any of the processing work or contain any of the personality or memory of the actual AI. That is contained exclusively within the chip.

[Oskuro]

Again, interesting episode. I won't wax poetic over it, seeing how everyone agrees, I will instead point out the parts I didn't like that much.

Firstly, the Weaver reveal. I hated it. I would have preferred a more subtle approach, with Weaver hiding her true identity during the meeting, until either the inconsistencies make the Connors suspect her, or she reveals herself to prove a point. I would have loved to see the reaction of the Connors to a T-1k.

Also, for me, part of Weaver's appeal was her ambiguous nature. By so clearly protecting the Connors, and flat-out stating her goals, she lost that. I would have preferred to leave her intentions a bit ambiguous, with her message to Cameron being a massive hint, but still not being too revealing.

Oh, and Cameron speaks some shitty spanish. You'd guess a machine would be able to replicate languages flawlessly, although, on the other hand, the first T models had that weird austrian accent, so maybe it's a software issue


A couple things not mentioned that I liked:

For one, the reference to T-1 when the Waterboy goes to the gunshop (I was half expecting him to ask for a plasma rifle).

Also, how weaver incapacitates the Waterboy by using ther body to transfer electricity, also demosntrating a T-1k cannot be shut down that way. Although I'd nitpick that T-2's T-1k never impaled Uncle Bob with his own body, wich I took to mean he didn't have the power to do so. Maybe that's part of why Weaver is an improved version? She can both pierce armored terminators, and efectively contain the explosive force of a crashing drone.

Now, for my interpretation of several points:

-I doubt the "Will you join us" message triggered a pre-programmed routine, but rather revealed to Cameron who Weaver was, thus upseting her (her cute robot reaction being to ask John if he was upset). Remember that Cameron was aware of the Jimmy Carter's mission, and she was familiar with that message.

-The "I'm sorry John" line seemed like a pre-programmed message. I'm of the opinion that both Cameron and john Henry are sharing the chip, hence why Weaver is so adamant on jumping forward to find Jonh Henry (She knows he's gone, and cares nothing for the hardware anymore), and John Connor is not stupid enough to go after Crom's body if he thought Cameron's mind was in the Turk.

[Thanas]

In other news, Michael Ausiello has reported that T:SCC was cancelled (again).

Response from the producers:

Waiting for Michael Åusiello to tell me what I'm supposed to do now with my career.

Remember when he was reporting this before Season 2? And the middle of Season 2? Time for Ausiello's semi-annual SCC termination report. False again. (Remember "sets were destroyed" report? Now you know context, people).If you have time, search on all his SCC scoops. Post them. Should make for amusing reading.

[Thanas]

And a great new interview with Brian Austin Green.

[Kon_El]

That said, I am rather curious to know what Weaver feels like. Will she FEEL human, have a pulse, generate body heat, what about her hair ?
Granted, by the time someone gets close enough to discern this they will most likely be dead.

The scenes with Savannah siting on her lap would tend to indicate little difference from a normal person.

[Thanas]

A bit colder, though.

[Imperial Overlord]

And a great new interview with Brian Austin Green.

Thanas, have I told you recently that you're awesome? You're awesome.

[tezunegari]

I just watched the episode again and found something interesting: Why was Weaver naked after traveling through time? (though technically speaking she actually is naked all the time) Also the T-1k from T2 was naked too when he arrived in the past...

They both mimic the effect of flesh that allows time travel. So unless either their flesh-field generators or the time displacement field frakk up their ability to form clothing there is no reason for them ending up naked.
--------------------------------------------------
Furthermore this episode has shown us something about the time travel machines:
In the pilot we learned that the there was an explosion at the bank when John, Sarah and Cameron traveled through time but here we have Sarah and Ellison standing right at the TDD bubble and they apparently survive.
So that could mean that the TDD from the pilot

• 1 - was either faulty due to lack of the correct materials or the material quality being lower than required, the engineer who built it made a mistake somewhere in its creation
• 2 - was designed as a single-use version with a self-destruct mechanism that ensured that the technology did not fall into the hands of pre-Skynet military and by proxy into the hands of Skynet prematurely
• 3 - somehow interacted with the fired anti-Terminator weapon and this triggered the explosion

Going by Camerons statement that it was meant to be a way home for the Tech-Com agents and the fact that in the pilot it had a weapon being fired as the bubble contained them I would go with #3.

[Thanas]

Added hilarity:

Michael Ausiello (smug jackass who works for EW) has been crowing reporting the cancellation of the show every four months now. He did it in the middle of S1, at the end of S1, in the middle of S2 and at the end of S2. So far, he has always been wrong.

Now, EW also has another person called Kristen working for them, and she recently contacted Josh Friedman with this message:

Email us at tvdiva@eonline.com anytime you want to talk about the future of your show...

His reply:

[D]on't ask me. It's been proven that I know less than Ausiello does. Right now he's at my therapist talking about my childhood.

Ooh, burn.

I just watched the episode again and found something interesting: Why was Weaver naked after traveling through time? (though technically speaking she actually is naked all the time) Also the T-1k from T2 was naked too when he arrived in the past...

This has already been speculated upon in this thread - to avoid immediately being identified as a terminator in case they stumble upon humans.

[neoolong]

Furthermore this episode has shown us something about the time travel machines:
In the pilot we learned that the there was an explosion at the bank when John, Sarah and Cameron traveled through time but here we have Sarah and Ellison standing right at the TDD bubble and they apparently survive.
So that could mean that the TDD from the pilot

• 1 - was either faulty due to lack of the correct materials or the material quality being lower than required, the engineer who built it made a mistake somewhere in its creation
• 2 - was designed as a single-use version with a self-destruct mechanism that ensured that the technology did not fall into the hands of pre-Skynet military and by proxy into the hands of Skynet prematurely
• 3 - somehow interacted with the fired anti-Terminator weapon and this triggered the explosion

Going by Camerons statement that it was meant to be a way home for the Tech-Com agents and the fact that in the pilot it had a weapon being fired as the bubble contained them I would go with #3.

I think 2 might actually be better. If they all went home, they'd probably not want to leave advanced tech behind in case something like T2 happens with the T-800 being reverse engeineered.

[Oskuro]

By the way, I rewatched the episode, and noticed a couple things.

Firstly, Weaver states that Cameron gave her chip to John Henry, and that he traveled throught time, wich means the Time Displacement equipement on the basement caused no damage to the desk, or the items lying about, or even Cameron's body, so I'm leaning on the idea that items that can't go through simply don't, and stay behind. Of course this doesn't explain the lack of empty clothing around, or how the heck did Cromartie's head go through the first time.

Secondly, after the drone crashes, I was wondering what that piece of liquid metal that joins Weaver was. My first impression was that she had lost some mass because of the impact, and it was rejoining, but on the second watching I noticed that it was actually the eel contained in the water tank. Why was she keeping a piece of herself posing as an eel?

[Peptuck]

Secondly, after the drone crashes, I was wondering what that piece of liquid metal that joins Weaver was. My first impression was that she had lost some mass because of the impact, and it was rejoining, but on the second watching I noticed that it was actually the eel contained in the water tank. Why was she keeping a piece of herself posing as an eel?

Security. Someone tries to sneak into your office to plant a bug or steal something, thinking no one's around, and....

[Old Plympto]

.... or how the heck did Cromartie's head go through the first time.

I read this somewhere that the production team wanted to show the actor's head fly through the bubble, but the higher-ups nixed it because they deemed it too gory. So they had the flying metal skull shot instead and they rationalized it (grudgingly, I'd bet) with the flesh burning off immediately after it went through as an after effect of the explosion in the bank vault.

I can't find the link to the interview now. Maybe on Newsarama or somewhere.

[eyexist]

.... or how the heck did Cromartie's head go through the first time.

I read this somewhere that the production team wanted to show the actor's head fly through the bubble, but the higher-ups nixed it because they deemed it too gory. So they had the flying metal skull shot instead and they rationalized it (grudgingly, I'd bet) with the flesh burning off immediately after it went through as an after effect of the explosion in the bank vault.

I can't find the link to the interview now. Maybe on Newsarama or somewhere.

You got it right. Freidman talked about it on the S1 DVD extras

[Shroom Man 777]

I just realized something. In the original TSCC timeline, Martin Bedell is a big Resistance honcho who can command chumps like Derek what to do and can decide to ignore Connor's commands since he's a total hardass. In the new "John-less" timeline, Martin Bedell is presumably STILL gonna be a big Resistance honcho and what's more is that he had his ass saved in the past by Young John. Imagine his surprise when he meets Young John again, totally unaged, and the guy tells him what's happened! Ha-ha!

And there's the Fields Girl, whatshername!

Things ain't yet so screwed for Young John's Further Future Adventures.