Predator vs. Boba Fett

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-01-12 03:35pm

Durandal wrote:
The Dark wrote:Ah. OK. That would certainly make Pred's hunt more difficult. I'd been wondering about that. Fett really is a paranoid social pariah, then, if he's unwilling to remove his armor in public .
He was always picked on in high school. Of course, those jock assholes got some hefty prices on their heads after graduation when they couldn't pay their student loans off ... Fett had to start somewhere.

But the thing that is most impressed upon about Fett is that he's completely devoid of all emotion. He doesn't care about anything other than collecting his bounty in a timely fashion and getting paid.

C'mon, he's a clone, and his 'dad' got killed right before his eyes by a dude with a lightsaber. This doesn't produce well-adjusted children, folks.

Darth_Nader · Post by **Darth_Nader** » 2003-01-12 03:45pm

actually the main predator in the second movie was a "Light" predator, their are classes of of rank in the predator society. the highest a predator can get is called a "Ancient" (Primal Hunt), he carries most of all weapons that a predator can carry and full body armor from head to toe, plus better hunting skills.

Darth_Nader · Post by **Darth_Nader** » 2003-01-12 03:48pm

thats what makes Fett cool being a Anti-social badass

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-12 04:03pm

This is what pred has done strenght wise in pred 2.

Picked one person up one-handed on his spear and threw him into the air. (Guy was also carrying a large gas tank with liquid nitrogen.)
Ripped thru serval doors and a wall, and an elavator door.
Took serval shotgun shots and was ether out for a few secounds or playing dead.
Got his arm cut off.

And still has danny at his knees at the end of the movie, if he didn't stand there and relised his victory he would of won. Same with Anuld. Neither had any reason to suspect that there victims had something up there sleeves.

Older preds in the comics and novels can jump 30ft in the air and I've heard dodged bullets.

But after hearing everything said I'll say Fett wins tech wise and long range while the pred wins hth and melee wise.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-01-12 05:43pm

Got his arm cut off.

Historically in Graphic novels as well, limb loss like that hasnt been a debilitating injury for Preds, I imagine its pretty fucking painful, but Preds have fought on regardless.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-12 05:53pm

white_rabbit wrote:
Got his arm cut off.
Historically in Graphic novels as well, limb loss like that hasnt been a debilitating injury for Preds, I imagine its pretty fucking painful, but Preds have fought on regardless.

Still, the fact that it happens means they let their enemies get way too close for comfort, either through overconfidence, stupidity, or incompetence.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-01-12 06:21pm

[/quote]
Still, the fact that it happens means they let their enemies get way too close for comfort, either through overconfidence, stupidity, or incompetence.[/quote]

Oh, it can be all three at times, they like beating people up too much for their own good.

The older they get, the smarter they get though, and they usually ignore all the honour shit when they have too.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-12 06:28pm

white_rabbit wrote:
Got his arm cut off.

Historically in Graphic novels as well, limb loss like that hasnt been a debilitating injury for Preds, I imagine its pretty fucking painful, but Preds have fought on regardless.

Exactly, and he still beat Danny one-armed. Even threw him across the room. And he got hit by a lightning bolt unharmed.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-12 06:53pm

I'm still waiting for a reason as to why we should consider the graphic novels/comics admissible material.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-01-12 06:58pm

Durandal wrote:I'm still waiting for a reason as to why we should consider the graphic novels/comics admissible material.

Hmm, they dont actually have a canon policy AFAIK.
But since the alien Queen head in P2 is actually a Nod to the graphic novels...I consider that at least a basis for allowing the Graphic novels to be admissable.

And they dont exactly massively contradict the films.

Movies
Graphic Novels/comics
books

Would seem to be a good ranking.

Except IIRC, several of the Graphic novels are actually made from the books, as opposed to the books being written from the Comics.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-12 07:55pm

As I said, if you admit that stuff, then you must also deal with the EU Boba Fett, and all of his toys, tricks, and techniques. Predatory is even more dead if you don't want to stick to the movies.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-01-12 08:58pm

white_rabbit wrote:
Durandal wrote:I'm still waiting for a reason as to why we should consider the graphic novels/comics admissible material.

Hmm, they dont actually have a canon policy AFAIK.
But since the alien Queen head in P2 is actually a Nod to the graphic novels...I consider that at least a basis for allowing the Graphic novels to be admissable.

And they dont exactly massively contradict the films.

Movies
Graphic Novels/comics
books

Would seem to be a good ranking.

Except IIRC, several of the Graphic novels are actually made from the books, as opposed to the books being written from the Comics.

Predator 2 came out before the graphic novels and comics, didn't it?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-12 10:37pm

I believe so, given that Dark Horse has recieved their initial stuff before some releases.

Though also if we do admit them, then we deal with all EU Fett's hardware, which makes him nastier to many more leagues then the Pred comics are by a long shot.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-01-12 10:59pm

Durandal wrote:
The Dark wrote:I would think the Predator and Boba Fett would each be smart enough to try to go after the other when they're not expecting it. Whoever catches the other off-guard will win, unless someone wants to make the claim that the Predator can win bare-handed against Boba Fett or that Fett wears the rebuilt Mandalorian armor all the time.
Fett does wear that armor all the time.

Next on Mystery Date: Boba Fett and Samus Aran!

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-12 11:03pm

Hmmm...I wonder how you would get to do her anally?

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-12 11:15pm

My take on it:

The Pred will win. Mainly because I despise Fett fan-bois-ism.

But, lets be reasonable here. Fett undoubtedly does have the superior fire-power, but lets also remember that Predators in the movies and in the comics have been mainly equipped for hunting humans, who, at the best of times aren't great prey. As such they could well be under-equipped and we do know from the history of Predator literature that they have some truly funky tech to back them up...

But, who really brings a spear to a gunfight? A Predator does, but when do we really ever see the Predators giving their opponent a sporting chance? Its their way that they eliminate all of the "distractions" then slowly wear down their opponent, destroying their equipment and morale. Just look at the commandoes in Predator 1, within a day they have no weapons to speak of and hardly anyone is left. All due to the Predators hunting. So don't argue that a Predator wouldn't attack Fetts observed weakness - the Jet Pack.

Oh, as for the arguement that the Predator cannot have the mobility of Fett with Jet Pack, we have seen the Predator climb very rapidly and IIRC one of the comics/novels made reference to a climbing device or sorts that allowed for an amazingly rapid ascent... And I'm not referring to the grappling hook from the games.

What I visualise here is a days or even weeks long battle between the Predator and Boba all across a section of Coruscant.

Both have observed strengths and weaknesses, but I'd have to say, based on what we see that the Predators are the better hunters and I'll hand this one to them.

And one point that EVERYONE has overlooked. A Predator on Coruscant can hide in plain sight. There are aliens a-plenty, noone would react that strangely to a Yautja walking the streets, unlike current day LA... Think about it.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-01-12 11:28pm

Durandal wrote:
SAMAS wrote:Only when hunting Kaiju.

Predator Sniping depends on the situation. If going after a group, or minor targets, Sniping seems to be an acceptable way to start off. But the majority of kills, particularly of the primary targets, are done close-up.
All his kills were within 50 to 100 meters. Modern snipers go from 2 kilometers.

And? Short-range sniping, since you want to get prissy about it.

Anyway, on to things I missed:

Predator Canon -- Remmeber, Canon is determined by the creators, and only when they choose to clearly define them. Otherwise, it should be generally concidered that the primary sources are the highest on the ladder, so to speak. For Predator, that means both the movies and the Graphic Novels. Things like Paperback Novels and the Video games are usually considered secondary, as they most likely draw from the higher forms as well(And the toys are Right Out).
Where is the evidence for any of this?

None. Just going by Common Sense. The first movie was the original scource of information, so is definitely Canon. But the Graphic Novels (I think the first AvP graphic novel came before part 2) are the most recent, and detailed. The rest should be obvious.

That is, of course, unless Fox and Dark Horse say otherwise. Remember, not everything sticks to the Star Wars model of Canon.

Track Record -- Both Fett and the Predators have had both good moments and bad ones. Fett's EU legacy and the fact that for Predators, hunting Xenomorphs with limited weaponry is like a basketball game is to us Vs. the Sarlacc and the Movies and numerous crossovers. On the other hand, compare the circumstances.

The Predators have faced, even though they lost, everything from Hollywood Action Heroes(Ahnuld and Glover) to Superheroes such as Batman, Tarzan, and even Superman. In all but one case(I'll leave you to guess which one), the Predator was a serious threat to these heroes, even when they were at the top of their game, all the way up until the very end of the final confrontation.
Hollywood action heroes are a copout.

Then would you prefer Plot Induced Stupidity/Weakness? Or perhaps intervention from the Script Gods? It's the same as the Sarlacc incedent, only with less Dumb Luck.

Boba, on the other hand, was "taken out," as it were, by what has been proven to be a sore point about Mandalorian armor: The Jetpack. A lucky, and not very hard at all, hit to his pack sent him careening out of control, eventually dumping him rather unceremoniously into the pit.
Unless you're seriously claiming that the Predator has working knowledge of emergency firing switches on Boba Fett's jetpack, I fail to see how this makes any difference. If you're relying on this for the Predator to win, you might as well concede. There are no conveniently located Sarlaac pits on Coruscant.

So what you're saying is that while it's okay for you to depend on the Jetpack being there, it's wrong for the Predator to try to take it out?

What I was stating was the difference between getting hit by a tree then blowing yourself up, or getting gutted by your own weapon the one time you drop your guard in your moment of triumph, and Plain Dumb Luck.

(And there's a big difference between Ahnuld and Glover's(And Tarzan's and Batman's...) come-from-behind victories after a good two minutes of getting stomped after five minutes of more even fighting, and: "Boba Fett? Where?")
Really? And what would that be? Boba Fett was taken out through sheer luck. The Predators' defeats were due to incompetence.

They were due to luck in each case. Both times, the Hero happened to be next to the object that give him the win, and he would've been a trophy had he been ten feet to the left.

And since Fett Fans like to use them interchangably, Let's look at his father Jango. Let's face it, while Jango managed to hang with Obi-Wan for a few minutes of fighting, he was losing overall until Boba interfered with Slave I's guns, and their later fall off the platform. Against a true Jedi Master(Windu), his life span was measured in seconds.
If you're seriously suggesting that losing to a Jedi Master is some sort of indication of incompetence, then you're even dumber than I previously thought.

No, but when others are claiming he beat them up, or stood up to Windu, the record must be set straight.

Oh, and sitting on a rooftop to snipe the Predator only has a chance of working on one condition: Fett manages to track the Predator to his lair without it knowing, and has the sniping weapon on him at the time. Otherwise, he's just going to wait him out(it is his ship, after all), or go out through the back door and come from behind(side, below, above, whatever).
Um ... if Fett tracks him with the intent to snipe him from afar, I think there's a good chance that he'd equip himself with a sniper rifle. You also forgot that Fett may simply throw a thermal detonator into the Predator's lair and be done with it.

Then comes the problem of doing it without the Predator's knowledge. If you track the Pred to it's ship, then you've been led there. Tossing a Thermal Detonator will only blast one room of the ship, likely not the one the Pred is in, and incite him to make a trip to the Armory.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-12 11:31pm

weemadando wrote:
And one point that EVERYONE has overlooked. A Predator on Coruscant can hide in plain sight. There are aliens a-plenty, noone would react that strangely to a Yautja walking the streets, unlike current day LA... Think about it.

*pictures a Yautja in a Coruscant bar*

cool ....

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-12 11:39pm

SAMAS wrote:
And? Short-range sniping, since you want to get prissy about it.

50-100m isn't sniping. It's well within infantry combat range.

Then would you prefer Plot Induced Stupidity/Weakness? Or perhaps intervention from the Script Gods? It's the same as the Sarlacc incedent, only with less Dumb Luck.

WTF is your point exactly with this? I've also responded to your previous post, do I have to repeat myself?

So what you're saying is that while it's okay for you to depend on the Jetpack being there, it's wrong for the Predator to try to take it out?

Please state how an emergency firing switch can help the Predator, considering there is nothing else for Boba to be aiming at, and no Sarlaac pit a few metres below him.

What I was stating was the difference between getting hit by a tree then blowing yourself up, or getting gutted by your own weapon the one time you drop your guard in your moment of triumph, and Plain Dumb Luck.

For one thing, the Predator's defeats are worse, in case you didn't notice. Especially in the case of Danny Glover, that Predator was a big pussy.

They were due to luck in each case. Both times, the Hero happened to be next to the object that give him the win, and he would've been a trophy had he been ten feet to the left.

Arnold lured the Predator to the traps and then quickly improvised to bag the Predator. Fine. Danny Glover kicked the Predator's ass, straight up.

No, but when others are claiming he beat them up, or stood up to Windu, the record must be set straight.

Regardless, this doesn't help your case.

Dodge · Post by **Dodge** » 2003-01-13 04:41am

I watched Predator 1 and thought, "That's an interesting plot idea. A ruthless hunter versus a crack team of soldiers. I can buy that."

Later, I watched Predator 2 and thought, "Nah. The first film was definitely better. This version (2) is crap; the 'hunter versus hunted' theme is out of the window here. Everything happening in a harsh (city) environment doesn't feel right to me. A poor sequel."

I suppose that if we ignore Predator 2, then the contest would be Fett to win. His equipment is superior, and he's just as ruthless a hunter. Some of us believe that he would be able to see the Predator cloaked with his helmet viewer, and that would be the Predator's advantage lost.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-13 07:40am

Well, unfortantly I can't be like you Vympel and ingnore onscreen evidence (like the fact the danny did not kick the pred's ass straight up) Why you choose to ingnore me telling you that danny was on his knees and for intents beaten is beyound me. I guess you can't belive anyone can beat Fett, not even a guy that can throw people across a room one-armed. Prehaps when I find the dvd like I want to, I'll send you pictures of your Danny getting his ass handed to him. Alwell.

On the matter of Preds cloaking. Pred 2 came on last night. And yes we see shots richcey off his shoulder pads, however before this he had drew a bead on the pred's midsection (which we could see in heat vision). Obviosy protection of somekind is involded in that claok in the second movie. Darth Wong has pointed out that bent gravity would kill people around the Pred, so since it has been stated as a fact that he does that maybe the.ve learned a way of harnessing it to act as protection. I'm hoping to find a script of pred 2 and see what it says.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-13 07:54am

Darth_Shinji wrote:Well, unfortantly I can't be like you Vympel and ingnore onscreen evidence (like the fact the danny did not kick the pred's ass straight up)

What onscreen evidence have I ignored? Maybe the slow-ass plasma bolts (observed twice- the first against the Jamaican, the second against Gary Busey)

Why you choose to ingnore me telling you that danny was on his knees and for intents beaten is beyound me. I guess you can't belive anyone can beat Fett, not even a guy that can throw people across a room one-armed. Prehaps when I find the dvd like I want to, I'll send you pictures of your Danny getting his ass handed to him. Alwell.

Oh really? What part of shooting out his shoulder cannon, blasting him with a shotgun, knocking him off a building, CUTTING OFF HIS ARM, watching the Predator run away like a little bitch, and then having Danny Glover gut him like a fish on his own home turf is not a straight up fight?! It doesn't matter if Danny Glover was 'on his knees', because the Predator was looking right fucking at him when Glover gutted his ass.

On the matter of Preds cloaking. Pred 2 came on last night. And yes we see shots richcey off his shoulder pads, however before this he had drew a bead on the pred's midsection (which we could see in heat vision). Obviosy protection of somekind is involded in that claok in the second movie. Darth Wong has pointed out that bent gravity would kill people around the Pred, so since it has been stated as a fact that he does that maybe the.ve learned a way of harnessing it to act as protection. I'm hoping to find a script of pred 2 and see what it says.

You certainly won't find an idea like 'the Predator's bulletproof cloak' in the script.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-13 08:00am

The only way I see that cloak working from observed and feasible effects is either by therm-optic effects like micro-ultrasonic sirens around the suit or a special layer of intelligent particles that mimic the environment around the wearer.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-13 08:08am

Boba Fett's helmet (from original Visual Dictionary)

1: Swing down targeting rangefinder
2: Macrobinocular viewplate
3: [/b]Motion/Sound Sensor System

Clearly, the Predator's cloaking system will not make him immune to detection. That helmet is not a straight eye-piece.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-01-13 08:10am

Vympel wrote:Boba Fett's helmet (from original Visual Dictionary)

1: Swing down targeting rangefinder
2: Macrobinocular viewplate
3: [/b]Motion/Sound Sensor System

Clearly, the Predator's cloaking system will not make him immune to detection. That helmet is not a straight eye-piece.

Even without the heat-sig that the Pred will have, a SONAR or bog standard motion detector will help if it gives 180 degrees protection, 360 best case.