What If: United States Is Transported Back in Time to 1776?

[Rabid]

I agree it would be easy to make a woodship burn, but I'm not really comfortable with the idea of letting them enough time afloat that they could still try to take a few shots at my ship.

... However if I shoot at them outside of their own guns' effective range and maneuver to stay out of it the point is moot...

[PeZook]

I agree it would be easy to make a woodship burn, but I'm not really comfortable with the idea of letting them enough time afloat that they could still try to take a few shots at my ship.

... However if I shoot at them outside of their own guns' effective range and maneuver to stay out of it the point is moot...

A wooden ship that's on fire will be too busy trying to not die to try and catch you, and you can easily poke hundreds of holes in the enemy from a kilometer or more with a simple mama deuce.

If you have a 75mm gun in addition, it's just...not a contest. Especially since you don't care about wind at all, and the gun is breech-loaded and has a rotating mount.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Use armour-piercing rounds and aim below the waterline. Aim for the magazine and you'll total the ship if the rounds are powerful enough.

[PeZook]

To give some perspective: 1776 is an age where ships of the line still fought side by side, because contemporary shells would often not penetrate wooden planks from anything but point blank. Boarding was still a viable battle tactic as far as Nelson's time.

An encounter with a ship that can fire shells, accurately, from as far away as a kilometer and knock out a frigate with two or three hits will be an existential shock to any naval commander of the era.

The biggest, meanest ships of 1776 would be absolutely helpless against a single armed merchant. Modern ships might as well be bombarding them from orbit, and their biggest problem might be that the shell fuses are not sensitive enough and the shells go through both sides of the enemy ships too easily

[Eternal_Freedom]

Hence, aim for the waterline, that way at least they'll start taking on water. And you might just hit the gunpowder magazine and finish their day with a bang.

[spaceviking]

, and their biggest problem might be that the shell fuses are not sensitive enough and the shells go through both sides of the enemy ships too easily

This was even a problem for American Tanks in the Persian Gulf war, when they used armour penetrating shells.

[Chirios]

Okay, we've concluded so far that 2011!USA will try and purchase Mexico from the Spaniards in order to build oil fields. Questions:

1) Who will they put in charge of Mexico?
2) Will they try and get natural gas etc. from Canada?
3) What will their policy towards the Middle East/ Africa be?

[Mr Bean]

Okay, we've concluded so far that 2011!USA will try and purchase Mexico from the Spaniards in order to build oil fields. Questions:

1) Who will they put in charge of Mexico?
2) Will they try and get natural gas etc. from Canada?
3) What will their policy towards the Middle East/ Africa be?

1. The State and Interior Department. A Governor of Mexico will be selected and give a four or six year term to govern the territory in the US's name

2. No because that gas is a pain in the ass to get to, Natural gas requires pipelines period and those just vanished. In fact mining Natural gas mining outside the US is done for the foreseeable future.

3. Conquest!

*Edit
To put 3 in more prospective I'm guessing since your talking about pure nomadic tribes at this point we will give the tribes lavish gifts and buy everyone's friendship via small scale projects. People are still fighting over water rights at this point in history so something like a Seawater distillation plant will be worth a hundred times it's weight in gold.

But as already mentioned our contact must be strickly limited because we have modern day plagues to devastate them and they have ye-old fashion plagues to devastate us.

[Molyneux]

Okay, we've concluded so far that 2011!USA will try and purchase Mexico from the Spaniards in order to build oil fields. Questions:

1) Who will they put in charge of Mexico?
2) Will they try and get natural gas etc. from Canada?
3) What will their policy towards the Middle East/ Africa be?

On 3), hopefully we'd see about actual nation building - or at least, preventing the destruction of any self-sufficient African nations that still existed at that time.

I like to think that the US diplomatic corps would see it as a way to prevent the climate of our current situation from developing again.

[Chirios]

3. Conquest!

*Edit
To put 3 in more prospective I'm guessing since your talking about pure nomadic tribes at this point we will give the tribes lavish gifts and buy everyone's friendship via small scale projects. People are still fighting over water rights at this point in history so something like a Seawater distillation plant will be worth a hundred times it's weight in gold.

But as already mentioned our contact must be strickly limited because we have modern day plagues to devastate them and they have ye-old fashion plagues to devastate us.

Actually no. There were several surviving African kingdoms at this point, some of which were at war with the Europeans. Wene wa Kongo, Mwene Mutapa, Lunda, Luba, Bachwezi etc. These kingdoms consisted largely of permanent farming settlements, and in the case of Mwene Mutapa, walled cities. There were concrete power systems that the USA could negotiate with.

[KrauserKrauser]

The US would not be able to utilize the oil in the middle.eastfor probably at least 5 years. There is simply no infrastructure even if you able.to start pumping.

Meico.and Canada have a good enough supply to get us through but even then it would a race.against time.

The old world.markets would be thrown into chaos. Salt production alone will cause massive upheavals. salt was a valuable.commodity at that. Point. Industrial production find't start for many more years so our ability to makeassove.quantities of.salt on demand will be another tool.

[Mr Bean]

Actually no. There were several surviving African kingdoms at this point, some of which were at war with the Europeans. Wene wa Kongo, Mwene Mutapa, Lunda, Luba, Bachwezi etc. These kingdoms consisted largely of permanent farming settlements, and in the case of Mwene Mutapa, walled cities. There were concrete power systems that the USA could negotiate with.

I'm talking about Middle East, at a minium we want access to all that "useless" desert land and actually nice land that's home of the UAE to set up bases and shipping yards looking towards the future. Africa has lots we want but first twenty years we are probably not going to be exploiting anything but diamond and gold mines. OAN the question is does America go Iraq 1 on Britian and the other global powers since they are actively hostile to us at this point, sinking or ceasing their fleets would be sufficient to break their military and something even 30% off the US Navy could accomplish being immune to counter battery fire and able to out-run with ease any attempt at boarding or ramming. The question is would we try for a treaty or keep the war going. If we kept the war going do we annihilate the British Navy or annihilate a portion and then stop capturing every ship and crew we can lay hands on to our ends. Sailing vessels are not exactly high tech but they can still carry goods.

[Molyneux]

Actually no. There were several surviving African kingdoms at this point, some of which were at war with the Europeans. Wene wa Kongo, Mwene Mutapa, Lunda, Luba, Bachwezi etc. These kingdoms consisted largely of permanent farming settlements, and in the case of Mwene Mutapa, walled cities. There were concrete power systems that the USA could negotiate with.

I'm talking about Middle East, at a minium we want access to all that "useless" desert land and actually nice land that's home of the UAE to set up bases and shipping yards looking towards the future. Africa has lots we want but first twenty years we are probably not going to be exploiting anything but diamond and gold mines. OAN the question is does America go Iraq 1 on Britian and the other global powers since they are actively hostile to us at this point, sinking or ceasing their fleets would be sufficient to break their military and something even 30% off the US Navy could accomplish being immune to counter battery fire and able to out-run with ease any attempt at boarding or ramming. The question is would we try for a treaty or keep the war going. If we kept the war going do we annihilate the British Navy or annihilate a portion and then stop capturing every ship and crew we can lay hands on to our ends. Sailing vessels are not exactly high tech but they can still carry goods.

Oh, shit. I just had a disturbing thought.
Who precisely controlled Israel in 1776?

What do you bet are the chances that right wingers/much of the Jewish population would move to annex the region entirely?

[Ahriman238]

At this time, that would still be the Ottoman Turks, who were considered fairly enlightened as far as religion went. I don't think Israel is quite that dear to the right-wing, though it's certainly a possibility with some of the Jewish population.

Which brings up a larger issue. With our knowledge of science and technology, it would be simple enough for any American to run off and set himself up as king (or god) in some godforsaken corner of the world he's relatviely sure hte rest of us won't follow for some time. Or go to Europe and be able to name his price to become a "court technician."

Now, however will we deal with that? No Prime Directive in the American tradition (except, of course, through TV) and I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to exploit less advanced cultures no matter our historical shame for having done so in the past.

[spaceviking]

Oh, shit. I just had a disturbing thought.
Who precisely controlled Israel in 1776?

What do you bet are the chances that right wingers/much of the Jewish population would move to annex the region entirely?

I believe they were still a part of the Ottoman Empire.

Pretty low, at least initially. The U.S is going to have to act pragmatically. I can see them being pressured to preempt any progroms, but creating a Jewish state is going to pretty low on their priorities.

[RogueIce]

Which brings up a larger issue. With our knowledge of science and technology, it would be simple enough for any American to run off and set himself up as king (or god) in some godforsaken corner of the world he's relatviely sure hte rest of us won't follow for some time. Or go to Europe and be able to name his price to become a "court technician."

Now, however will we deal with that? No Prime Directive in the American tradition (except, of course, through TV) and I'm sure you can find plenty of people willing to exploit less advanced cultures no matter our historical shame for having done so in the past.

It'll deal with itself. It's not like any Tom, Dick or Jane will have access to a ship capable of transoceanic voyages, and the skillset for the "old school" navigation without our GPS constellation would be required as well. That and the whole resource rationing thing at first. It's doubtful terribly many people will be going anywhere outside of the Americas, and even within just our hemisphere it wouldn't be an easy trek to get too far away from civilization.

At least at first. Once things are stabilized it may be more of a problem. But if somebody does set themselves up as King in some remote corner the nation as a whole isn't likely to go to anytime soon...sucks for the natives, but if we're not going there how would we even know there's a problem that needs fixing? Even assuming the USG or population will care enough to take action, people still have to find out about it first.

[KrauserKrauser]

I think there is no worry if any one setting themselves up as kings. 0% chance.of that.

European powers would pay greatly for the materials science. Weapons tech but honestly there is only so much one can do as the infrastructure in 1776 is simply comparably non existent. We are well before the industrial revolution so there is going to only be cottage industry to work. Definitely a.chance for an experienced engineer to set themselves up in a fishy role in any of the European powers but honestly there will be no instakings just because you know oil is valuable, etc.

Agriculture would receive a.huge boost. Potatoes were just being popularized and chocolate was still be marketed as an alternative to coffee. Steel plows, modern crops etc if adopted in 1776 would likely help to avoid a lot of the turmoil that took place at that time. The French monarchy would likely live on a bit longer due the increased availability of food.

While the US is going to obviously be the global hegemony due to the tech gap they won't be able to move as fast as many will want. Coming from a instant gratification instant return society to extwremly austere and resource limited will be a very drastic change.

The resources of the world would be layed bare to us. But the infrastructure to move them back to us would take years too put in place.

[KrauserKrauser]

Posting from my phone is still fun to try and read.

If the weather patterns stay identical we would have a rough guesstimate of what to expect and a much more accurate picture in about 50 years as farmer's almanacs will start being relevant. Major hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes etc should be mostly documented so there would be some saved lives as a result of that. Though the butterfly effect could easily alter weather patterns as there would be large amounts of change from a modern US producing industrial byproducts on a scale that dwarfs the 1776 world output likely in a week's or month's time.

The smartest move would be to consolidate all of North America into a new super-US. The power structures in Canada and Mexico are still highly fungible at this state and such a consolidation should be relatively easy to arrange without having to resort to hostilities. Carribean area would be a bit stickier as the colonists there will be very resistant to forgo the use of slaves and the slaves will very much want to killfuck their masters. Haiti is already a basket case at this point and the rest of the islands are not much better. Ideally a naval blockade of the region would be able to stop the incoming slave ships but the abrupt ending of the slave trade will crash the European economies that have been benefitting greatly from the slave trade.

I could definitely see a bunch of Cubans forming flotillas to go back home. Cuba would be an easy addition but as there is no oil there would be of limited strategic value.

Oil remains the key. Canada has some but alot of it is locked up in shales that we would not be able to easily access. Mexico has a ton and the border allows us easy access to it. 1776 Mexico is still a solidly Spanish colony. It could probably be bought from Spain for something relatively minor to us. Agriculture would be an easy one but likely Gold would be the easiest commodity to use.

That's another thing to think of. We have basically added 50% or so to the discoverable gold in the world. All of the gold held in the US by foreign nations would revert to us and the discoveries in South Africa, etc have yet to be made. The silver in Mexico is mostly mined out by now but gold is the trump in 1776 economics.

Buy Mexico for some amount of Gold? Plausible and hopefully the population there would be amenable to it once they saw the vast benefits of joining the US.

Once the Canadian and Mexican territory is added or at least the resources are made available, then the US could start looking for the other world resource stockpiles in the Middle East, China, Russia, South Africa, Australia, etc. Doing that before establishing supplies domestically is a fools errand as the US is not up to the task of large infrastructure building required to access those resources in a short period of time. Mexico could be producing oil within months, the Middle East would be years at a minimum.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Heck, I'm betting we could buy the entire Russian Far-East if we really wanted to.

[PeZook]

We have a winner.

As a reward, I hereby declare that transplanted modern USA will attempt to prevent the Second Partition from taking place in Pezookistan.

That's...pretty easy to do, actually, though I don't know what sort of strategic sense it makes for the modern US to get involved in that mess. I'm sure Poland might try and suck up just to get theirhands on sweet, sweet bolt-action rifles and ammo for them, but that would inevitably result in war in central europe, and more to the point, 1776 Poland has fuck all to offer the modern US in exchange

[Simon_Jester]

I'm actually just joking around. Sorry.

[PeZook]

I'm actually just joking around. Sorry.

Dude, I know.

I'm not that humorless

[Simon_Jester]

But do I know that you know that I know that you know that I... you know what? Nevermind. Show's over, move along...

I really wonder how the shock of seeing a large republic pop out of nowhere will alter the European political dynamic. What would, say, Voltaire think?

(Not that that particular man would be doing any traveling to go see, at his age)

[Chirios]

But do I know that you know that I know that you know that I... you know what? Nevermind. Show's over, move along...

I really wonder how the shock of seeing a large republic pop out of nowhere will alter the European political dynamic. What would, say, Voltaire think?

(Not that that particular man would be doing any traveling to go see, at his age)

A large and powerful republic, that wouldn't be exactly pleased at many of the actions of 1776!Europe.

[Iosef Cross]

What if the United States and all of its unincorporated territories were suddenly transported back in time through to 1776? The US's satellite communications systems will not be transported, nor will its overseas bases and military personnel.

What would happen in "our" reality, and what would happen in the new reality that split off at the moment of 1776?

Any large modern country transported back to the 18th century would become instantly the most powerful country in the world and become global hegemons instantly. That applies even to countries that today depend greatly on external trade such as Argentina or Canada (as economies that depend greatly on international trade today would be badly affected by the lack of any modern economies to trade with), and major countries such as USA, Brazil or China, would have a profound impact on the development of the world.

The technology, economy and society of the rest of the planet would surely advance hugely and perhaps in a century the entire planet would be modernized to the point of reaching our present state of civilization in around 1880.