SG1 9x04 (Ties the Bind) & SGA 2x04 (Duet) Discussion Th

[TheDarkling]

I believe it was Carter who said that they tried dialing multiple addresses, but until they got the map and compensated for stellar drift, Earth could only dial Abydos. Even going with random dialing, at least one address should have worked.

Earth dialled the planet where the four races used to meet up, without a DHD.

[Zac Naloen]

The Stargate can't do these things because its not a computer. You need the DHD because it contains all of those components. Carter has said as much. The DHD is the key to making everything work. Without the DHD you don't have the computer system designed to run the gate and dialing becomes very difficult. If your going to manualy dial you have to dial the closest planets. The DHD is the computer the computes, its the system that dials the gates (and BTW can dial all of the gates, ala correlative update), its the power source, it has a built in computer system, etc...

Except the DHD doesn't create the actual wormhole. which is what has changed. If we go with the software update, its not an update to the dialling software. Its an improvement upon whatever software within the gate dictates and controls the creation of the wormhole. Perhaps the change is that it now burrows deeper into subspace than before, creating faster transit between gates, or some other technobabble explanation.

[Alyeska]

The Stargate can't do these things because its not a computer. You need the DHD because it contains all of those components. Carter has said as much. The DHD is the key to making everything work. Without the DHD you don't have the computer system designed to run the gate and dialing becomes very difficult. If your going to manualy dial you have to dial the closest planets. The DHD is the computer the computes, its the system that dials the gates (and BTW can dial all of the gates, ala correlative update), its the power source, it has a built in computer system, etc...

This is no way supports your made up idea that the DHDs are autoupdated with potentially new software when connected to other ones.

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

[Akaramu Shinja]

This is no way supports your made up idea that the DHDs are autoupdated with potentially new software when connected to other ones.

Wasn't that the entire premise of Avenger 2.0?

Virus != Operating System in the DHD (DHD doesn't even need one or most likely have one, gates can dial without them) that updates older DHDs it connects to, potentially changing a potentially seen wormhole effect while travelling through the wormhole in the form of energy.

[Akaramu Shinja]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

Good counter argument to everything else presented against you. Oh wait, it has nothing to do with that. In any case, see above post.

[Zac Naloen]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

Good counter argument to everything else presented against you. Oh wait, it has nothing to do with that. In any case, see above post.

i recommend seeing my post, it makes more sense


Either way, i just watched duets.. that episode is pure unplot driven hilarity. Possibly the funniest atlantis episode.

I'd hope to see some adaptation of that wraith transporter in future episodes. Think about it... Want to colonise a planet? no need for HUGE city ships. load your population up into a few of those hubs and have you go. instant population for your new colony.

[Alyeska]

The Stargate can't do these things because its not a computer. You need the DHD because it contains all of those components. Carter has said as much. The DHD is the key to making everything work. Without the DHD you don't have the computer system designed to run the gate and dialing becomes very difficult. If your going to manualy dial you have to dial the closest planets. The DHD is the computer the computes, its the system that dials the gates (and BTW can dial all of the gates, ala correlative update), its the power source, it has a built in computer system, etc...

Except the DHD doesn't create the actual wormhole. which is what has changed. If we go with the software update, its not an update to the dialling software. Its an improvement upon whatever software within the gate dictates and controls the creation of the wormhole. Perhaps the change is that it now burrows deeper into subspace than before, creating faster transit between gates, or some other technobabble explanation.

Potentialy a more stable wormhole less likely to cause events like Red Sky from season 5?

[Alyeska]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

Good counter argument to everything else presented against you. Oh wait, it has nothing to do with that. In any case, see above post.

I am sick and tired of your attitude. Shut the fuck up you fucking noob. You aren't trying to contribute, your trying to attack those who disagree with you.

You've been on the forum for less then a month and you think your king shit already and that you can barge into threads with other people who've discussed and known the topic for quite some time.

Get that stick out of your ass and fucking discuss the issue rather then try and act like an ass.

[Zac Naloen]

The Stargate can't do these things because its not a computer. You need the DHD because it contains all of those components. Carter has said as much. The DHD is the key to making everything work. Without the DHD you don't have the computer system designed to run the gate and dialing becomes very difficult. If your going to manualy dial you have to dial the closest planets. The DHD is the computer the computes, its the system that dials the gates (and BTW can dial all of the gates, ala correlative update), its the power source, it has a built in computer system, etc...

Except the DHD doesn't create the actual wormhole. which is what has changed. If we go with the software update, its not an update to the dialling software. Its an improvement upon whatever software within the gate dictates and controls the creation of the wormhole. Perhaps the change is that it now burrows deeper into subspace than before, creating faster transit between gates, or some other technobabble explanation.

Potentialy a more stable wormhole less likely to cause events like Red Sky from season 5?

along those line yes, the further away from realspace you are the less of an effect the wormhole shall have on it.

The fact that in the old effect you can blatantly see the outside galaxy suggests they aren't burrowing particularly deep, you get a less clearer view now.

Whoever came up with this wormhole analogy is a fucking genius, its a perfect way to describe these things.

[SirNitram]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

How does one go from 'Updating the coordinates of all gates' to 'Overhauling the connection methods'? Really, that's just silly.

[Akaramu Shinja]

i recommend seeing my post, it makes more sense

Yeah if I were to go with it updating the software of some kind, it would have to be the gate. But I'm still against the idea of it even happening, since, you know, there is no proof what the gate travel looks like in universe. :p

Then Alyeska tried to say people were "aware" when travelling. But eluding to what he means. If that means seeing, well how? We presented arguments against that, but he just ignored them and restated that people are "aware". He's a clever guy really. So he then rolls with this unproven theory and adds another theory, which he then continues to repeat, as if it will come true magically some day.

In any case, as you said, the DHD is unrelated to the formation of the wormhole. See all alternate DHD devides. They're probably more of a navigation computer than anything. ref: Jumpers, handheld DHDs, Nox using their "magic" etc. And as we already know, even humans (probably with computer aid) can calculate the same if they have a base to work from.

[Alyeska]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

How does one go from 'Updating the coordinates of all gates' to 'Overhauling the connection methods'? Really, that's just silly.

The gate itself isn't a computer. How can it be the element of updates? The DHDs are clearly the involved aspect of the gate update system. From there the DHD would update the gates firmware and then order it to change the method of how it dials.

[Alyeska]

i recommend seeing my post, it makes more sense

Yeah if I were to go with it updating the software of some kind, it would have to be the gate. But I'm still against the idea of it even happening, since, you know, there is no proof what the gate travel looks like in universe. :p

Then Alyeska tried to say people were "aware" when travelling. But eluding to what he means. If that means seeing, well how? We presented arguments against that, but he just ignored them and restated that people are "aware". He's a clever guy really. So he then rolls with this unproven theory and adds another theory, which he then continues to repeat, as if it will come true magically some day.

In any case, as you said, the DHD is unrelated to the formation of the wormhole. See all alternate DHD devides. They're probably more of a navigation computer than anything. ref: Jumpers, handheld DHDs, Nox using their "magic" etc. And as we already know, even humans (probably with computer aid) can calculate the same if they have a base to work from.

When I said something, you attacked me, called me arogant, and insulted me. When other people said the same thing I said, you merely talked to them.

You have a fucking hardon for me or something?

[Zac Naloen]

One thing we haven't considered is the way its pictured in the movie, we see jackson dematerialise and then the camera follows him travelling through the gate, kind of suggesting thats what jackson is seeing.

of course we'll never actually know, its never specifically explained, nor will it be.

[Akaramu Shinja]

I am sick and tired of your attitude. Shut the fuck up you fucking noob. You aren't trying to contribute, your trying to attack those who disagree with you.

I'll ask again, is this now your counter argument? An attack against the person, good job.

You've been on the forum for less then a month and you think your king shit already and that you can barge into threads with other people who've discussed and known the topic for quite some time.

So now because I'm new, my points are invalid? Another point for Alyeska's debating skills. You're appealing to your own false recognition on the subject. Because you've debated similar topics before, you're now an SG expert and your crap can't be challenged?

Get that stick out of your ass and fucking discuss the issue rather then try and act like an ass.

Discuss the issue? Like you have? I've presented my case. Where is your counter argument? Oh right, it's not there.

[SirNitram]

I guess you haven't watched the season 7 episode Avengers 2.0. The entire premise of that was talking about how the DHDs themselves were involved in the correlative updates.

How does one go from 'Updating the coordinates of all gates' to 'Overhauling the connection methods'? Really, that's just silly.

The gate itself isn't a computer. How can it be the element of updates? The DHDs are clearly the involved aspect of the gate update system. From there the DHD would update the gates firmware and then order it to change the method of how it dials.

I'm sorry, this is still a massive leap in logic.

[Alyeska]

One thing we haven't considered is the way its pictured in the movie, we see jackson dematerialise and then the camera follows him travelling through the gate, kind of suggesting thats what jackson is seeing.

of course we'll never actually know, its never specifically explained, nor will it be.

Probably has to do with the buffer. Someone has to entirely enter the event horizon before dematerialization. Afterall, wouldn't be too healthy to dematerialize someones hand and then the person pulls their arm back out. I'm not sure how the gate works entirely in that regard. We have the incident with Ford in the SGA espide 38 minutes where his leg was sticking out of the event horizon of the wormhole and people pulled him out. He was unaware of the passage of time while the majority of his body was inside.

[Akaramu Shinja]

When I said something, you attacked me, called me arogant, and insulted me. When other people said the same thing I said, you merely talked to them.

You have a fucking hardon for me or something?

Show me. Your bullying techniques, ignoring techniques and now attempt to make character an issue isn't going to kill my argument. Sorry.

[TheDarkling]

Virus != Operating System in the DHD (DHD doesn't even need one or most likely have one, gates can dial without them) that updates older DHDs it connects to, potentially changing a potentially seen wormhole effect while travelling through the wormhole in the form of energy.

The virus was part of the dialling program.

FELGER: "W-w-well, uh, the truth is, uh, we don't know how the virus was transmitted. If it piggybacked with the automatic correlative update, that means it's buried somewhere within the dialing program itself. We're talking thousands of lines of code...you know, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack."

They weren't just altering the coordinates they were altering the program which governs how the DHD operates (it's OS).

They also believe that the entire program can be over written.

FELGER: "So, we can do that here. Instead of trying to tweak the DHD program back to it's original form, why don't we just upload everything from our dialing computer?"

CARTER: "Our program is nowhere near as sophisticated as the one that exists in the DHDs. It's completely jerry-rigged."

FELGER: "It doesn't have to be perfect, as long as the coordinate system is accurate. The DHD will automatically make all the necessary adjustments."

That indicates to me that it is possible to modify who the DHD's work by the correlative update.

[Alyeska]

How does one go from 'Updating the coordinates of all gates' to 'Overhauling the connection methods'? Really, that's just silly.

The gate itself isn't a computer. How can it be the element of updates? The DHDs are clearly the involved aspect of the gate update system. From there the DHD would update the gates firmware and then order it to change the method of how it dials.

I'm sorry, this is still a massive leap in logic.

DHDs were listed as being involved in the correlative updates thanks to Avenger 2.0. Now as to your question. Think of this. Think of the Stargate as a Router. Think of the DHD as the computer the Router is connected to. Router does what its been designed to do. Setup connections. Now if someons is wrong with the Router or a change in the function of the router is desired, one uses the computer to update the information of the router. Often times you gain this information to update the router by using the router (get on the internet). You can change more then just basic information, you can change how the router works (open and close ports, NAT settings, etc).

The Stargates have certain capabilities, and certain limitations emplaced on them. This is clear from the Red Sky episode where the Earth computer was able to make the gate do something normaly not done. Using the DHD one can change how the gate functions. In 48 hours a DHD was able to turn on a stargate without a wormhole even. DHD recieves a software update, it then feeds this information into its Stargate.

[Akaramu Shinja]

*snip*

Yes, I completely agree with all of that. The DHD is a power source and navigation computer. It doesn't mean to say the DHD controls the make up of the wormhole, and thus potentially the way it looks.

[SirNitram]

DHDs were listed as being involved in the correlative updates thanks to Avenger 2.0. Now as to your question. Think of this. Think of the Stargate as a Router. Think of the DHD as the computer the Router is connected to. Router does what its been designed to do. Setup connections. Now if someons is wrong with the Router or a change in the function of the router is desired, one uses the computer to update the information of the router. Often times you gain this information to update the router by using the router (get on the internet). You can change more then just basic information, you can change how the router works (open and close ports, NAT settings, etc).

The Stargates have certain capabilities, and certain limitations emplaced on them. This is clear from the Red Sky episode where the Earth computer was able to make the gate do something normaly not done. Using the DHD one can change how the gate functions. In 48 hours a DHD was able to turn on a stargate without a wormhole even. DHD recieves a software update, it then feeds this information into its Stargate.

You're still leaping from 'They can change how they interperate the symbols', which is what is actually shown in Avenger 2.0, to 'They can completely change how they form the wormhole mechanically, massively changing it's appearance and overhauling stability' with.. Nothing to support it.

[Alyeska]

When I said something, you attacked me, called me arogant, and insulted me. When other people said the same thing I said, you merely talked to them.

You have a fucking hardon for me or something?

Show me. Your bullying techniques, ignoring techniques and now attempt to make character an issue isn't going to kill my argument. Sorry.

Actualy you started the character issue, so don't dodge this. You made accusations against me yesterday.

Now just discuss the damned thread. And don't single me out when other people are making the same statements.

[Akaramu Shinja]

*snip*

Okay, whatever you say.

How do people see while travelling through the wormhole as energy? Remember that discussion I keep putting forward and you keep dodging away from?

[Alyeska]

DHDs were listed as being involved in the correlative updates thanks to Avenger 2.0. Now as to your question. Think of this. Think of the Stargate as a Router. Think of the DHD as the computer the Router is connected to. Router does what its been designed to do. Setup connections. Now if someons is wrong with the Router or a change in the function of the router is desired, one uses the computer to update the information of the router. Often times you gain this information to update the router by using the router (get on the internet). You can change more then just basic information, you can change how the router works (open and close ports, NAT settings, etc).

The Stargates have certain capabilities, and certain limitations emplaced on them. This is clear from the Red Sky episode where the Earth computer was able to make the gate do something normaly not done. Using the DHD one can change how the gate functions. In 48 hours a DHD was able to turn on a stargate without a wormhole even. DHD recieves a software update, it then feeds this information into its Stargate.

You're still leaping from 'They can change how they interperate the symbols', which is what is actually shown in Avenger 2.0, to 'They can completely change how they form the wormhole mechanically, massively changing it's appearance and overhauling stability' with.. Nothing to support it.

And its a leap to assume that an old gate can change how the wormhole forms withouth a mechanical intervention.

How does the Stargate itself change wormhole creation styles without a mechanical influence? Well it has to be a software issue. We know the DHD itself is critical in the wormhole creation process and I've just listed two primary examples of this. Both from season 5. Red Sky and 48 hours. Furthermore we know the DHDs are constantly talking to each other. They would be the means of spreading the information. DHD sends the stargate updated information, Stargate then changes its method in establishing the wormhole. Short of mechanical intervention (which is unlikely), software is how the entire thing works.

And the DHD being critical in this process is also supported by the minor fact that when Earth dialed Peagasus we didn't get this information spreading throughout the system. Earth has no DHD to use to spread any potential information and the Earth gate still had the old effects throughout season 8.