nBSG S2:04: "Resistance"

[Trytostaydead]

Question: Was Adama right to so quickly try to remove Rosalyn from office? Is the President of the Colonies the Commander in Chief as well?

Though from the previews, it looks like Adama is going to continue opposing her.

[Zed Snardbody]

[Stofsk]

It's interesting the number of people tearing into the Prez for her pursuing prophecy and scroll promises.

Who started the people down this road? Adama, and his speech on Earth, how it was real, and how he knew the secret.

He got that ball rolling.

That's an excellent point.

Adama, who doesn't believe in the prophecies and all that bullshit, helped create this situation with his "Let's go to Earth, so say we all" speech at the end of the miniseries.

People who are bitching at Roslyn neglect to consider what caused her faith to assert itself. She wasn't a believer until very recently. And Billy points out the whole "stop it with the drugs mmmkay" and if it weren't for Adama and his speech...

Oh man, I love this show.

[Utsanomiko]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ ... dy/555.jpg

I'd prefer "Ellen Tigh: The enemy you can't simply push out the airlock."



So...
When do people think Hector & Vector will show up?

[StarshipTitanic]

So...
When do people think Hector & Vector will show up?

After Ellen is eaten by the Ovions.

[Grasscutter]

Just saw the episode. Next Friday can't come fast enough...

Just saw Resistance. Good episode, was disappointed with the rampant budgeteering on Caprica B though- no effort whatsoever made to make those real-life weapons (Czech scorpions, British L85s etc) look different for the cameras- took me right out of SoD. It can't be that hard to have the prop master play around with them like the others.

I second that. That New York Times article posted in this thread mentioned Moore went with nukes and bullets as opposed to ray guns so the audience had a physical threat they could relate with, and I think it works. But those guns really looked out of place.

Why is it that everything that Ellen "suggests" to Col. Tigh places him in a worse position that compromises his authority and standing with the fleet? Shouldn't she be giving him confidence and helping him solidify his power? It can't be that she's stupid... Further proof she's a Cylon? Or was she trying to push things to the point where civil war would break out and then shack up with Zerrik?

On that note, my vote's for "Ellen Tigh: Does Bill Adama Have to Choke a Bitch" .

[Skylon]

Question: Was Adama right to so quickly try to remove Rosalyn from office? Is the President of the Colonies the Commander in Chief as well?

Though from the previews, it looks like Adama is going to continue opposing her.

Technically, but Adama never recognized Roslin as someone capable of making military decisions. All goes back to the fact that she's a bloody school teacher. In the mini-series they agree that Roslin is in charge of the fleet, but military decisions are in Adama's hands. However the line seems shakey.

In "33" for example Adama defers to Roslin on final authority to destroy the Olympic Carrier, probably because it was a civilian ship. Later in "You Can't Go Home Again" he notes whatever Roslin felt about the search for Starbuck and how unwise it was, was "crap", because the recovery of a pilot was a military matter.

In any case, she violated that pact when she goaded one of Adama's pilots into stealing the Raider when it was being prepared to be used as a weapon. After they'd spoken about it and Adama said he wouldn't use the Raider for waht she wanted.

[18-Till-I-Die]

My i suggest...

Ellen Tigh: Bitch please, you trippin'.

[unigolyn]

Can't let that Zarek campaign ad go...

[img=left]http://www.kojinshugi.com/wp-content/voteforbill.jpg[/img]

[xerex]

Can't let that Zarek campaign ad go...

LOL aint that the truth. some choice-- benevolent fundie, , pragmatic miltary dictator , oppurtunistic revolutionary

Isnt it funny that if SD.netizens were citizens of galactica , most of us would be rooting for a military dictator ?

[unigolyn]

Isnt it funny that if SD.netizens were citizens of galactica , most of us would be rooting for a military dictator ?

Personally, I don't think anyone on the ragtag fleet is a 'citizen' - until they escape the Cylons and form a permanent colony somewhere, they're refugees and keeping up the pretense of a democratic society is a completely dumbass move of self-deception. Which Roslyn's little religious escapade that turned into a total clusterfuck (total breakup of morale, 4 civilians dead already, Zarek poised to make a move) amply proves.

If I'm ever stuck in a fleet being chased by vastly superior enemies, I want a military commander in charge, not the Secretary of Education. Not to mention some opportunistic Che Guevara wannabe - military operations and delusions of egalitarianism don't mix. Plenty of time to round up the bourgeoisie into space gulags when the Cylon danger is dealt with.

[Vympel]

Quite well put I think. I'm surprised they didn't declare martial law from the start. Tigh may have fucked it up, but his premise was correct: the delivery of supplies to Galactica is not optional. Frankly, you'd have to be off your fucking rocker to even contemplate starving your only protection from the Cylons of anything whatsoever. Just insane.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well i dont agree a military dictator is the best route...they tend to get 'grabby' when it comes to power, and dont like to give it up 'when the danger is passed'.

Ceasar, anyone?

BUT i completely agree that starving Galactica of resources in the middle of a running war with alien psychic walking calculators is lunacy. I mean, what the hell were they thinking? Does any Colonial ship but Galactica even have guns let alone anything comperable to a Cylon Basestar?

[unigolyn]

Well i dont agree a military dictator is the best route...they tend to get 'grabby' when it comes to power, and dont like to give it up 'when the danger is passed'.

It's hardly a perfect route, but they're hardly in a normal situation. It's a purely military operation. It's Adama's job to protect the Colonies, and that means its completely in his mandate to commandeer civilian vessels and ensure that the largest possible number of people and resources survive. Militaries exist for a reason, and the concept of martial law exists for a reason - as the disobeying civilian commanders showed, they are making completely asshatted decisions endangering ALL of them - Vipers were ordered to conserve fuel because some idiot decided his 'right' to have a 'voice in government' superceded the survival of the human race. I would personally ensure that the moron sucked vacuum.

Ceasar, anyone?

Caesar is hardly an apt comparison - Rome was more of an oligarchy than a democracy - Caesar simply ended the rule of a wealthy elite and replaced it with the rule of one man. The average Roman would have benefitted nothing whatsoever from the status quo continuing, whereas Caesar undoubtedly benefitted the Roman Empire as a whole.

[Knife]

Why is it that everything that Ellen "suggests" to Col. Tigh places him in a worse position that compromises his authority and standing with the fleet? Shouldn't she be giving him confidence and helping him solidify his power? It can't be that she's stupid... Further proof she's a Cylon? Or was she trying to push things to the point where civil war would break out and then shack up with Zerrik?

She's a powermonger, nothing more. *I hope*. If she's a Cylon, I'm going to gag, and be very pissed off at Moore. As I've said before, the tension in universe of 'everyone may be a Cylon' give the show an edge, but that edge will be blown if they start B&B-ing it and making major characters Cylon's for a cheap thrill.

It would be infinately better if they 'charge' her as a Cylon and kill her then to find out she wasn't.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Ok maybe the Ceasar referrence was incorrect (probably). But my point is military dictators rarely, if ever, see the danger as 'passed'. Who would disagree, seeing as they have the big hunk of armor and guns on their side. But of course you are correct about the stupid, stupid RETARD decision to try and fuck with the Galactica's systems during a running war with the psychic-toaster-people.

[Chmee]

Look at the decision to withhold supplies from the perspective of the civilian ships.

They know Adama ... maybe they like him, maybe they don't, but he saves their asses and gets them all away from the Cylons. They're in a relatively 'safe' position for the moment ....

Then rumors start to run through the fleet -- violence on Galactica, Cylon infiltrators, the President arrested, Adama killed ... no, not killed, but maybe about to die any minute ... Tigh takes command, begins issuing odd orders, throws Adama's son in the brig ... and then declares himself ruler of the Fleet!

And you expect civilians to neatly line up behind that? Imagine how bad the rumors are outside Galactica! "Tigh must be a Cylon, sent to destroy our way of life!"

It's no surprise at all that some ships said "Whoaaa, hold on there, let's talk about this 'President in jail, I'm in charge' shit, Tigh ..."

It might have all worked out if Tigh had followed through on his intention of getting the major ships together for a conference to dispel the rumors and explain his actions ... then Ellen goads him into more bombastic 'Do what I say or else' statements and more ships quite naturally say 'Uh, no, screw you' as a consequence.

[unigolyn]

Ok maybe the Ceasar referrence was incorrect (probably). But my point is military dictators rarely, if ever, see the danger as 'passed'. Who would disagree, seeing as they have the big hunk of armor and guns on their side.

Again, we're not talking about a society here. Imagine the scenario as an aircraft carrier and a bunch of cruise ships with civilians on board after the entire world has been nuked to kingdom come. Even if Seceretary of Education Charo is the only surviving cabinet member and becomes President by default, there's nothing to preside over and Captain Stubing should obey the commander of the carrier until such a time as whoever did the nuking is completely destroyed or it's a certainty that they won't return.

Their resources are very finite, and all of them must be devoted to ensuring survival. Once they find somewhere safe to actually build a society and a functioning economy, Adama has no mandate or reason to dictate the colonists. If he wants to turn into a Noriega at that point, by all means, revolt.

[Knife]

Ok maybe the Ceasar referrence was incorrect (probably). But my point is military dictators rarely, if ever, see the danger as 'passed'. Who would disagree, seeing as they have the big hunk of armor and guns on their side. But of course you are correct about the stupid, stupid RETARD decision to try and fuck with the Galactica's systems during a running war with the psychic-toaster-people.

Your think like this is a military dictatorship for a country. It isn't. This is more like a military operation, really a operation of survival. Escape and Evade, if you will.

Adama himself pretty much stated that he doesn't want to manage the civilian population when he did not want to use the Marines as a police force. Rosiln and the Quarom should be managing the civilian population but not trying to run a civilization. At this point, there isn't one.

When the fleet gets to a place where they do set up a new colony, then the civilian population should enact a goverment to rule them. Till then, the civilian body should manage itself but really just follow the military who are trying to save their silly ass.

[unigolyn]

And you expect civilians to neatly line up behind that? Imagine how bad the rumors are outside Galactica! "Tigh must be a Cylon, sent to destroy our way of life!"

That makes no sense at all - if Tigh was a Cylon, he wouldn't declare martial law, he'd promptly lead basestars in to destroy the fleet. Keep in mind that the general public doesn't know anything about the ambiguous behavior of Cylons - they think the Cylons want to simply kill every last man, woman, and child.

It's no surprise at all that some ships said "Whoaaa, hold on there, let's talk about this 'President in jail, I'm in charge' shit, Tigh ..."

It might have all worked out if Tigh had followed through on his intention of getting the major ships together for a conference to dispel the rumors and explain his actions ... then Ellen goads him into more bombastic 'Do what I say or else' statements and more ships quite naturally say 'Uh, no, screw you' as a consequence.

They're really not in any sort of position to issue demands, and Tigh was well within his rights as military dictator (martial law being a completely legitimate order of things during all-out-war) to do so.

Tigh's mistake was to send in small contingents of marines with inept commanders, instead of, say, firing over the bows of the disobeying ships and telling them to stop questioning his legitimate authority and risking the lives of every last survivor, or be prepared to be boarded with overwhelming force (all marines onto one ship, get supplies, retreat, go to next ship).

[unigolyn]

For the record, I think RDM is slightly dropping the ball with this whole Ellen Tigh business - it would be much better in my opinion to have Tigh fuck up simply because he's not used to crowd control and considering collateral damage, and because he's a self-loathing, self-doubting alcoholic, rather than have the clichéd proverbial devil on his shoulder. I hope they space that caricature before the middle of the season.

[NecronLord]

He should have gotten her evaluated as unfit to hold public office due to lunacy, degenerating health and drug addiction, not just thrown in the brig. In technical terms, that is treason even despite the practical need for military leadership. As it is at the moment, Roslin's actions seem to make sense. As I recall, she described and saw the opera house before knowing what or where it was, as well as saw the cylon and his 'spacing' ahead of time. There seems to be one logical explanation for this, that the cylons are interfering with her mind, and one illogical explanation - she's really a prophet.

[Alyeska]

None of the commanding officers knows of her drug addiction.

[TheDarkling]

He should have gotten her evaluated as unfit to hold public office due to lunacy, degenerating health and drug addiction, not just thrown in the brig.

As Alyeska said they didn't know about her drug addiction, I am also unsure whether Adama knew that she was dying (I don't think he did but I could be wrong).

All Adama had on the President was that she had ordered a military mission, which as President she probably has the right to do anyway (the agreement she and Adama reached has no legal basis since Adama only had the threat of an illegal coup to stop her ordering the military around anyway) and that she seemed to believe in some of the prophecies which given the seemingly highly religious nature of the colonial population wouldn't be accepted as proof of mental instability.

Adama may or may not have made the right decision but legally or even politically he hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ ... dy/555.jpg

I'd prefer "Ellen Tigh: The enemy you can't simply push out the airlock."

Frankly, I wouldn't let a little thing like her being human stop me...

So...
When do people think Hector & Vector will show up?

Right after Muffit the robo-daggit saves everybody from a fire in the rec-room by tracking the smell of mushies from the bridge.