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The Dark
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Re: revivised calcs

Post by The Dark »

PainRack wrote:Here's a revivised calculation of Clan Wolf Omnimech replenishment rate, this time, assuming that Clan Wolf attempted to replenish all Omnimechs in all 4 Clan galaxies at the same time.

Gamma description are more vague than Alpha and Delta, with units using both Omnimechs and battlemechs. Alternatively, the 103rd Striker Cluster uses Battlemechs and Elementals in their trinaries, with no unit count. Since such a revisied calc was meant to estimate the upper limit on Clan Wolf rearmament effort, the calcs have been deliberately pitched towards counting the maximum number of battlemechs that could be potentially replaced. As such, elementals in "mixed" units have been discounted and replaced by battlemechs so as to produce an upper limit.

Such an absurdly high count reveals a potential 230 battlemechs to be replaced , added on top of the tweaked count from Alpha and Beta,that's 425 Omnimechs in less than two years.
Alpha and Beta Galaxies should be fully equipped with Omnimechs within a year,Gamma and Delta Galaxy less than a year after that. Within the year, Clan Wolf also expects to field two full Garrison Galaxies, with a third the following year.
The limited mention of Clan Wolf in the FedCom Civil war suggests that Clan Wolf has reached this target strength and increased upon her garrison component.

For those who eschew the deliberate bombastic calcs from above, there are some assumptions I made with regards to the units that can provide a lower mech count.
A more..... "realistic" approach to rearmament counts may use the typical Clan Wolf cluster as a guide to unit composition.
The Average Clan Wolf Cluster currently includes a Command Trinary of SuperNova, one Mech Trinary, one fighter Binary or Trinary and one Elemental Trinary, organized according to a variety of schemes.
The Wolf Clan also fields an abundance of aerospace units; as the Refusal War was fought primarily on the ground, aerospace assets suffered markedly fewer losses than ground units.
The 103rd Striker Cluster also includes a Trinary of Ice Hellion warriors which have been stripped of their Omnimechs, so, that suggest that at least 1 trinary of battlemechs in the cluster. Assuming parity in terms of mechs/elementals, for the remainding 4 trinaries, that's another 30 battlemechs in this cluster, to a total of 45.

The 7th Battle Cluster was formed around a surviving binary from the old cluster, and has received a Binary of Omnimechs and two mixed trinaries from the Harvest trials. While the 10 elements may comprise of battlemechs, as per the unit composition, more aerospace fighters are available, thus, these 10 elements are assumed to be non battlemech.

The 3rd Wolf Lancers has been counted as a primarily mech unit, in this case, assuming that it only consist of one Mech trinary and this mech trinary is comprised of battlemechs(not unusual since Delta galaxy is Sigmoid galaxy, a garrison unit), that give us only 15 battlemechs in this unit.

The 2nd Wolf Lancers mixed trinaries have been counted as purely battlemechs, assuming parity in elementals and battlemechs, that give us only 15 battlemechs for this unit.

The "realistic" count would thus be 120 Battlemechs from Gamma and Delta galaxy, added on top of the 45 in Alpha/beta, to yield 165 Omnimechs in less than 2 years. In lieu of the much higher battlemech count in Gamma and Delta, it appears likely that Clan Wolf was attempting to rearm all 4 of its galaxies simulatenously. Therefore, a "realistic" approach to Clan Wolf rearmament would have them being able to replace 165 Omnimechs in less than 2 years, as opposed to 45 Omnimechs in 1.
Going out to 3062 to follow up on the assessment you have:
Khan Vlad has rebuilt all four of his front-line Galaxies since the Refusal War, using salvage taken on Wotan and promoting entire units of upper-quality garrison troops. Delta Galaxy, newly created from an entire garrison Galaxy plus front-line troops, has gone from just above second-line to front-line quality within the past two years under the able leadership of Galaxy Commander Katya Kerensky. The Wolves currently field four front-line Galaxies and two full garrison Galaxies, with a third being built.
Since the Refusal War began in 3057, it took under five years to complete the rebuilding of Clan Wolf, including the time during which it was Clan Jade Wolf.
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Post by RhoOmicronMu »

Block wrote: The novels is more what I meant. I liked the whole Fed-Lyran civil war series, found it pretty interesting, if not always well written.
The Founding of the Clans Trilogy of Classic Battletech Novels are being released in electronic form only (unless you can read German). They're being released serially at first as part of BattleCorps, but I believe you will be able to buy them entirely after they have finished.
ClassicBattletech.com wrote:BattleCorps is extremely excited to announce the coming electronic publication of the Founding of the Clans novel trilogy, for the first time in English!
BattleCorps has some good stuff on it besides that including a novel length story about the Clan Wolverine Annihilation.
eyl wrote: Exactly.

These were later removed from the BattleTech technical readouts (e.g., you can find them in TR3025, but not in the revised edition) due to the copyright flap, and hence became known as the Unseen, until the reappeared (with new artwork) in TR Project Pheonix.
They're going to put the old mech variants with new fluff but without art into the back of the new TRO: 3039.
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Post by PainRack »

During the Clan invasion of the Inner Sphere, two of the Inner Sphere's largest weapons manufacturers, Kallon Industries and General Motors, made a bold decision. Realizing that the Inner Sphere might not be able to produce enough refitted BattleMechs to stem the Clan thrust, they decided to devote some resources to producing new conventional vehicles. Apparently, they reasoned that the greater ease and lower costs of manufacturing vehicles would enable the Great House armies to flood the battle fields with them and overwhelm the Clan OmniMechs by their sheer numbers. Many existing vehicles received field refits or minor modifications as part of this effort.
Challenger X TRO 3058.
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Post by MJ12 Commando »

So is there anything on the Manei Domini or the new Celestial series omnimechs?

And does anyone have an opinion on their ingame use? Personally I've found them usable when deployed in teams-the Deva Invictus's GR+3 Light PPC armament gives it good range (although it has an extra heatsink it doesn't need and a retractable blade which is just silly for a sniper), it's got a Heavy Duty Gyro which, combined with its heavy armor and long range loadout, should keep it viable even perched way in the back using C3i to take extreme range shots with no mods.

The Seraph is pretty fun with the ability to jump 5 at once, and the Archangel I've found is, ironically, the spotter of the group. What else do you do with an assault mech outgunned by several IS Mediums but doesn't frigging die? :p

I'll admit, the Dominus config is surprisingly heavily armed for an omnimech with TWENTY FIVE tons of pod space-2 Heavy PPCs and a snub-nose PPC, as well as a pair of lasers. I have no idea, for the life of me, how they managed to fit 3 PPCs into 25 tons and enough sinks to make use of them quite well. :p

It's really an overgrown Awesome.

I've had one survive three rounds tangling with two Clan assaults, long enough for my Devas to kill one and tear the gyro out of the other. Contributing to this may have been that Manei Domini pilots start off with 3/4 minimum and generally will have VDNI + Pain Shunt, which effectively reduces them to 2/3s that don't take pilot damage from overheat or ammo explosions. Combine that with dermal armor and they don't take pilot damage period.

But I'm curious about the fluff of these guys-my experience is pretty much on the gamist end, not the fluffy end-how good are Manei Domini and the Celestials in fluff, and if you've used them what do you think?
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Post by PainRack »

All of these units have been purchased through the AFFS, which has an exclusive five-year contract on the entire Musketeer production run. Estimates indicate that by the time the contract is up, Corean will have manufactured more than four regiments of these vehicles.
TRO 3067, Musketeer.
I'm too lazy to refer to House Davion vehicle organisation, so using the barebones calculation as opposed to a regiment with command lance/company attached, this suggests a vehicle production of a min 86 vehicles a year.
With such limited numbers, this begs the question of why the Inner Sphere is still so fond of introducing new designs. The Salamander for example has only 12 operational examples after a year, introducing new designs so rapidly apparently had the drawback of limited production, so called lead time. If this drawback applies even to vehicles(although production here may had been delayed due to the RAC), it really makes no sense to keep introducing a plethora of new designs as opposed to upgrading older designs.
Which would explain TRO upgrades as well as the plethora of non standard mech designs in Dark Age, while rushing through designs for the Marksman.
It would also be a reversal of the trend to design new models taken during the 3050s, when House Kurita led the lead towards introducing utterly new mech designs. (TRO 3050)

The Inner Sphere R&D capabilities have also dramatically improved. Upon the advent of a new technology(RAC), it took approximately 5 years for Corean Enterprise to debut a vehicle design incorporating new tech. Compare this to the debut of new technology. It took approximately one and a half decade for the Double Heat Sink at Hoff to go into general production. The Devastator, a design that was based from recovered library data took over 2 decades to go into production(McCarron Cavalry met a prototype design during their campaign to destroy various fortresses in the Federated Commonwealth, depicted in their scenario pack, TRO 3055 mentions that the design made full production in 3049... Presumably after Norestorm rehabilated their facillity, which further suggest the delay in retooling lines)
Similarly, the Bushwhacker which saw prototypes fighting in the Clan invasion entered full scale production only in 3058.
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Post by PainRack »

Odd. I could had sworn I posted this before. Oh well
Drawn by the fighting in the streets, troops from both sides flocked to the growing battle in the upscale Coordinator's Cabal neighborhood. Scores of mansions, owned by the richest members of Prosperina's citizenry, were blasted to nothingness in the corse of a mere 30 minutes, with the fighting quickly spilling over into other middle-class neighborhoods. Within two hours, the fight blasted its way into the heart of a business district, leveling massive office buildings and even bringing a 65-story high rise down.
FedCom Civil War, Prosperina Flashpoint.
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Post by PainRack »

The first appearance of Zeus 'Mechs in significant numbers was during the recapture of Sakhalin. Elements of the 15th Lyran Commonwealth's Guard attacked an equal force of Draconis Combine's 32nd Dieron Regulars. Composed mostly of Zeus 'Mechs and a few Commandos, the Lyran force moved toward and captured a high ridge overlooking two large forests and a grassy plain beyond. The Dieron Regulars were made up of an even mix of BattleMasters and Dragons, which failed in their attempt to storm the ridge because of the concentrated LRM, laser, and autocannon fire it encountered. This, coupled with flanking attacks staged by the Lyran Commandos, forced the Combine forces to resign themselves to the flat plain for the night. The Lyran Guards did not pursue, making it clear that they were content to wait it out on the ridge. At nightfall, a heavy rain began.

During the night, the Lyran forces silently moved down from the ridge and spaced their Zeus 'Mechs evenly between the narrow gap separating the two forests. At sunrise, the surprised Dieron Regulars immediately charged the distant row of 'Mechs, but their attack had neither plan nor sense. The weight of the lumbering BattleMasters and Dragons soon turned the grassland into a sea of mud. Because of it, 'Mechs in the rear of the advance had difficulty keeping up, which caused the formation to spread out.

When the enemy advanced far enough into the funnel created by the two forests, the Lyran commander ordered the line of Zeus 'Mechs to open fire. 'Mechs in front of the enemy advance could fire back at the Lyran 'Mechs, but those in the rear could not. Worse yet, the stumbling about was making the already bad footing impossible. Some of the BattleMasters and Dragons tripped and fell, creating further confusion and a growing panic among the Regulars. The Commandos hiding in the woods chose that moment to open fire with their SRMs.

The rout was on. 'Mech stumbled over 'Mech in the rush to escape the Steiner trap. Those 'Mechs that had fallen were often permanently disabled by their comrades stepping on them to avoid stumbling in the mud. In all, the 32nd Dieron Regulars suffered a loss of eight BattleMasters and five Dragons, while the 15th Lyran Guards lost only one Zeus and three Commandos.
TR0 3025, Zeus
A more realistic assessment of battlemech tactics. including the all important morale issue, denying the Tactical Handbook claim that the insulation of mechwarriors protected them from the effects of rout suffered by infantry.
Though the Rim Worlds Republic might be at a disadvantage because they had not been using BattleMechs for long, what they were skilled at was construction of large, heavily armed tanks and hovercraft. These tanks, along with their crews detailed knowledge of the planetary terrains, more than made up for the League's superiority in Mechs.
As a result, the Star League forces often found themselves at the mercy of tanks that seemed to appear from nowhere to cut down a Mech before melting back into the terrain. In another error of judgment, the League commanders had not provided for infantry support, believing it would not be necessary
House Steiner Manual
The Lyran Commonwealth early adoption of mechs and it success against Kuritian tanks appears to had a detrimental effect on combined arms tactics. The Star League commander attached also failed to plan properly for the League invasion of the Reunification war. The Terran Hegemony focus on space warships, technical advantages in mechs as well as diplomatic/strategic superiority was probably what gave it its political power in the Star League and the Age of War, not the tactical genius of its army. Alternatively, politics interefered early on with the formation of the SLDF, although the SLDF manual suggests that the incompetence of the SLDF was league-wide, difficulties in the early exercises held before the Reunification War gave a hint of how poorly the SLDF would later fare in the conflict.
There was more death in this war, than in the entire Age of war.
House Steiner Manual
If I can only find that damn text which shows that the adoption of battlemechs accelerated the rush towards chivalry and small scale battles, replacing large mass armies.............

Certainly, the claim that the Ares convention changed warfare in the Inner Sphere requires more documentation. There exists data to show that the adoption of "chivalry" not only affected war politically, it also altered tactics significantly. The use of maneveur warfare in the Succession wars was attributed to the Ares convention, where formalised battles would dictate victory based on the strategic superiority of forces. When the Inner Sphere once again adopted the Ares convention, scarce material would then had provided the justification of withdrawal and retreats when faced with a militarily bad position.

However, there's also the issue of hyperbolic and general statements, since we also learn that the Ares convention did not prevent House Steiner from using neutron bombs.
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Battlemech first combat

Post by PainRack »


When the pre-dawn light revealed to him a number of giant BattleMechs waiting like so many armored towers, the Marik was stunned speechless. All he could do was mutely signal the order to begin the barrage.

The first outpouring of artillery shells turned the air into a rain of dirt. For a moment, the general almost believed that he had succeeded in killing the giants, but as the dirt and smoke cleared in the stiffening breeze, he saw it was otherwise. His antipersonnel artillery had exploded properly against the armor of the Lyran Mechs, but had left barely a scratch.

With a rising sense of panic, the general ordered his armor ahead and his artillery units to use armor-piercing shells. In response, the BattleMechs came forward, too, to engage his tanks with lasers, missiles, and particle beam weapons. Fifteen minutes later, the field was strewn with a regiment

s worth of overturned tank hulks, crushed remnants of missile barrage vehicles, and just one Lyran Mech.

Despite his own fear, neither retreat nor surrender entered the general's mind. Ordering in the last of his reserves, he sought to bring his armed troopships down to add to his artillery. The combined ferocity of the Marik infantry, the armor-piercing shells, the aircraft and laser blasts from the whale-like troopships managed to slow the Lyran BattleMechs, but it did not stop them. Seven hours later, in the blazing heat of the noonday sun, the commander of the Lyran Mech company broadcast his demand for General Marik's surrender.
House Steiner Manual
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Re: Battlemech first combat

Post by Chris OFarrell »

The wank is strong with this one.
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Re: Battlemech first combat

Post by PainRack »

Chris OFarrell wrote:The wank is strong with this one.
The tanks probably aren't using the later autocannons, but rather conventional weaponery. After all, the Merkava test already establish the effectiveness of battlemech armour against normal AP rounds.

Too bad nobody I knows has the Northwind Highlander scenario pack anymore.
Thanks to Nebfer for helping me back up the sources on this one
The Jade Falcons, thanks to their presence on the Jaguar capital of Huntress, were among the first to obtain access to this new weapon system after the Jaguars' fall, enabling them to jump-start an experimental ProtoMech development program of their own months ahead of many of the others. However, the Falcons' legendary traditionalism, coupled with their own firsthand observation of the Inner Sphere victory on Huntress and the poor performance of Falcon ProtoMechs against the Lyran Alliance, led a very unimpressed Khan Marthe Pryde to terminate the entire ProtoMech experiment in 3064.
Combat equipment
The Pinion is not only part of an experiment, it is a bit of a dumping ground as well. In 3064 Khan Pryde put a halt to all of the Clan’s ProtoMech development and creation, keeping existing ProtoMechs in the Touman but ending any further construction or training. In her eyes, the ProtoMech test was a failure, as proven both by Clan Smoke Jaguar’s annihilation and the reportedly poor performance of ProtoMechs in the Falcon’s actions against the Alliance. This left quite a few micro weapons lying around unused. The Pinion was chosen to make use of them.
TRO 3067, Pinion.
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Re: Battlemech first combat

Post by Chris OFarrell »

PainRack wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:The wank is strong with this one.
The tanks probably aren't using the later autocannons, but rather conventional weaponery. After all, the Merkava test already establish the effectiveness of battlemech armour against normal AP rounds.
Yes. The wank is strong with this universe.
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Post by PainRack »

Probably what happens when changes to armour concided with ineffective weapons.
The VTOL lurched and pitched its left side down.One of its weapons turret looked for,locked on,and spat a missile that sped unerringly toward the tank. The tank exploded with a flash of light and a dull thud.
House Steiner Manual, incident in 2378,during the Steiner civil war. Conventional one-shot missiles were still capable of scoring mission kills. We also learn that heat-seeking missiles from US were effective against the hovertanks of the CAAN regiment. This suggest that no major advances in weapons or protection had occured during the previous 3-4 centuries. At best, the presence of heat decoys on hovertanks show mild evolution of present day defences.
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Post by PainRack »

The Swarm Missile was designed to be fired indirectly at a designated target identified by a forward observer/spotter (either in another 'Mech or not). Each Swarm Missile contains 100 submunitions, which separate when the missile reaches the target area. A barrage of 20 such missiles from half of the Bombardier's long-range racks can devastate a large area. Thunder Missiles are similar in design to Swarm Missiles, except that they contain 5 mines that spread out in the path of advancing BattleMechs. These mines have enough explosive force to damage the legs of many 'Mechs. The Bombardier can carry other missile types in different combat situations.
TRO 2750, Bombardier.
I took this from Solaris7, however, another electronic copy I had of the TRO didn't mention the specific number of mines and missiles........
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Post by PainRack »

Once we knew for certain that the ion storm had driven us off course into the Periphery, everyone aboard the Demeter knew it was only a matter of time.
Apparently, Ion storms can affect jumpship navigation. Hmmm..... I really should try to find battlespace and correlate some of the btech quotes I got....
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Post by PainRack »

Once we knew for certain that the ion storm had driven us off course into the Periphery, everyone aboard the Demeter knew it was only a matter of time.
Accessory to the Periphery, butte hold incident.
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Post by Swindle1984 »

I'm a huge Battletech fan and know a few Commandos, so I may be able to help locate some of the more scarce source material if you'd like.

Unfortunately, all my pdf copies of the old TRO's, the old level 3 rulebook, and the original Master Rule Book got deleted when my computer shit itself over a year ago. :? All I've got is the supplement to the Mechwarrior RPG and the TRO: RE in dead tree format. But as I said, I know quite a few people with access to some of the harder-to-find source material.





As an aside, I know that the ranges and such for Battletech weaponry have been severely neutered in the tabletop game for game balance purposes (and the fact that if the ranges were realistic then nobody would able to play since there aren't tables large enough to hold a decent battlefield), so how would Battletech compare to Warhammer 40k in terms of ground combat, both neutered and "realistic"? Obviously they'd get their asses raped in space, so I'm only interested in ground combat.
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Post by PainRack »

Swindle1984 wrote:As an aside, I know that the ranges and such for Battletech weaponry have been severely neutered in the tabletop game for game balance purposes (and the fact that if the ranges were realistic then nobody would able to play since there aren't tables large enough to hold a decent battlefield), so how would Battletech compare to Warhammer 40k in terms of ground combat, both neutered and "realistic"? Obviously they'd get their asses raped in space, so I'm only interested in ground combat.
WH40k wins in terms of numbers, infantry firepower and the like. Their battlemechs compare favourably with Wh40k light tanks and vehicles but when lasguns can come up with firepower equivalent to small lasers,much higher when they do dial up the firepower such as Comissionar Cain does against that icecave, that's not going to help them much.
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Post by Swindle1984 »

What sort of firepower do Battletech infantry lasers have then? I recall Justin Allard's laser hidden in his prosthetic hand was capable of slicing off the lower half of a multi-ton door made of solid bronze, and it certainly wasn't as powerful as an infantry laser rifle.



And it amazes me that Clan Wolf, one of the most powerful Clans, fields as few Galaxies as it does. Considering that even during the 3025 era the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere fielded dozens of mech regiments (108 mechs) as well as many, many more vehicle and infantry regiments, how the fuck did they manage to invade so deeply into the Inner Sphere and how did the Inner Sphere forces, especially when combined, not drive them out again entirely? The tech advantage the Clans share isn't that great, especially by the 3060's when the IS has not only partially caught up in terms of weapons tech, but even has weapons the Clans never thought of.

Heck, even in terms of tactics the IS has the Clans largely beaten. The Clans do their retarded duels and bidding system and, except for the Hell's Horses don't even field combined-arms units. Except for Elementals (and the later battle armor suits), the only time they field infantry is when they need a suicide attack to throw their elderly and shamed warriors at the enemy to buy time. The Inner Sphere wages total warfare (with all that it involves) and fields ungodly numbers of tanks, VTOL's, and infantry, as well as far more numerous mechs. The Clans don't even use artillery for pete's sake. Even when facing level 1/3025 tech exclusively, it's still amazing that the Clans managed to conquer so much considering how small their numbers are. And they couldn't even dedicate their entire military to invading, they had to keep at least some at home so other Clans wouldn't get uppity and try to conquer them.

With the technology the Inner Sphere has by 3067 and the advantage of numbers, I fail to see how they haven't driven the Clans out of the IS entirely.
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Post by Coalition »

Swindle1984 wrote:And it amazes me that Clan Wolf, one of the most powerful Clans, fields as few Galaxies as it does. Considering that even during the 3025 era the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere fielded dozens of mech regiments (108 mechs) as well as many, many more vehicle and infantry regiments, how the fuck did they manage to invade so deeply into the Inner Sphere and how did the Inner Sphere forces, especially when combined, not drive them out again entirely? The tech advantage the Clans share isn't that great, especially by the 3060's when the IS has not only partially caught up in terms of weapons tech, but even has weapons the Clans never thought of.
I got bored one time, and made a post on the classicbattletech.com Forum about this. Essentially, all the Clans together, all Castes, total less than 2 billion people. Luthien (the capital of the Draconic Combine) has 6 billion. The first wave was four Clans. Assuming military production per person for the Inner Sphere was about the same as the Clans, Luthien alone would have been able to send enough forces to stop the first four Clans. So the second wave of Clans comes in (another 3). Tharkad (the capital of the Lryan half of the Federated Commonwealth) stops them. Just the cpaital's forces, nothing else. From there, Rasalhague proceeds to smash the invaders. The rest of the Inner Sphere never notices them.

Of course, this is assuming military production per capita in the Inner Sphere is similar to the Clans.
Swindle1984 wrote:Heck, even in terms of tactics the IS has the Clans largely beaten. The Clans do their retarded duels and bidding system and, except for the Hell's Horses don't even field combined-arms units. Except for Elementals (and the later battle armor suits), the only time they field infantry is when they need a suicide attack to throw their elderly and shamed warriors at the enemy to buy time. The Inner Sphere wages total warfare (with all that it involves) and fields ungodly numbers of tanks, VTOL's, and infantry, as well as far more numerous mechs. The Clans don't even use artillery for pete's sake. Even when facing level 1/3025 tech exclusively, it's still amazing that the Clans managed to conquer so much considering how small their numbers are. And they couldn't even dedicate their entire military to invading, they had to keep at least some at home so other Clans wouldn't get uppity and try to conquer them.
The Clans have been adapting as well, and only use their honor rules if the opponent is willing to use them as well. As to the rest of it, the Inner Sphere seems to be going back to its regular job of killing each other, rather than the Clans. Not to mention the Clans will have to digest the massive amount of population and territory they have just taken.

Also, for the older PDFs of the original House Books
House Davion through Steiner, text only, in pdf form.
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Post by white_rabbit »

PainRack wrote:
Once we knew for certain that the ion storm had driven us off course into the Periphery, everyone aboard the Demeter knew it was only a matter of time.
Apparently, Ion storms can affect jumpship navigation. Hmmm..... I really should try to find battlespace and correlate some of the btech quotes I got....
Isn't there a time travel incident somewhere in Battle-tech fluff related to ion storms and jump drives ?
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Post by Imperial Overlord »

white_rabbit wrote:
PainRack wrote:
Once we knew for certain that the ion storm had driven us off course into the Periphery, everyone aboard the Demeter knew it was only a matter of time.
Apparently, Ion storms can affect jumpship navigation. Hmmm..... I really should try to find battlespace and correlate some of the btech quotes I got....
Isn't there a time travel incident somewhere in Battle-tech fluff related to ion storms and jump drives ?
No. There is a misjump incident relating to that.
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Post by PainRack »

white_rabbit wrote: Isn't there a time travel incident somewhere in Battle-tech fluff related to ion storms and jump drives ?
Misjump using the new 40 ly jump drive. SLDF warship sweeping the rear of Kerensky Exodus jumps forward 300 years into the future, appearing over a SJOZ world.

Incidently, we can also point to this and the perception of time during the jump even though no actual transit time occurs to show that some form of time dilation and distance does occur during a KF jump.
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Post by PainRack »

Swindle1984 wrote:What sort of firepower do Battletech infantry lasers have then? I recall Justin Allard's laser hidden in his prosthetic hand was capable of slicing off the lower half of a multi-ton door made of solid bronze, and it certainly wasn't as powerful as an infantry laser rifle.
It depends...... Using the RPG calcs though, the laser rifle would probably be in the KJ at best. It depends on how you calc the power point, using the gasoline generator from MW3 or the like. The power requirements MAY be lower though, since solar generators can be used to recharge laser rifles quickly.
And it amazes me that Clan Wolf, one of the most powerful Clans, fields as few Galaxies as it does. Considering that even during the 3025 era the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere fielded dozens of mech regiments (108 mechs) as well as many, many more vehicle and infantry regiments, how the fuck did they manage to invade so deeply into the Inner Sphere and how did the Inner Sphere forces, especially when combined, not drive them out again entirely? The tech advantage the Clans share isn't that great, especially by the 3060's when the IS has not only partially caught up in terms of weapons tech, but even has weapons the Clans never thought of.
The Clans tactics, training and technology combine to give them that edge. Again, the average IS mechwarrior using game mechanics misses 1/3 of the time. Any "real" situation means that a mechwarrior misses over 50% of the time, and probably 75% once range and movement is factored in.

In terms of population though, the "official" figures are problematic. The Clans birth thousands of genetic babies yearly. Once freeborn babies and normal population growth are included, the official population statistics from bean-counting are off. Probable explainations are the strict society and limitations on population growth by lack of resources, caste restrictions and marriage/growth, and the Dark Caste. Militarily wise, the Touman consist of 3 tier of forces. Frontline, Secondline/PGC forces and militia/paramilitary units. The last are explictly stated not to be included in Touman descriptions and Steel Viper probably uses conventional infantry garrisons to help man those paramilitary units. I'm not very happy with the merging of the RPG secondline forces with the PGCs. If you read Invading Clans, the PGCs were explictly stated to be cluster forces designed for garrison purposes. Subsequent fleshing out of the Clans now merged the RPG secondline forces(old rejects and rejected trueborn) into the PGCs and garrison units. The Secondline Mechwarrior RPG class was then merged into the garrison forces and PGCs were no longer "special". Of course, it does make one wonder why bringing in PGCs were considered both so problematic as well as done so easily, if they were considered part of the Clan normal military. Easily, cause said units would had broken the Clan bid, difficult as Ghost Bear and other Clans were hesitant to bring in such specialised forces, although they were perfectly willing earlier on to bid secondline forces to invade the Inner Sphere.

And in terms of troops... Clan Smoke Jaguar and Ghost Bear committed 12 mixed galaxies to the battle, both secondline and frontline forces. Even if one discount the SJ "smaller" galaxies, that's 60 clusters worth of troops and equivalent to approximately 30-45 mech regiments using the "standard" clan configuration. That's comparable to the FWL and CC central forces in 3050 and considering Clan training and equipment, comparable to their frontline units as well.
Heck, even in terms of tactics the IS has the Clans largely beaten. The Clans do their retarded duels and bidding system and, except for the Hell's Horses don't even field combined-arms units.Except for Elementals (and the later battle armor suits), the only time they field infantry is when they need a suicide attack to throw their elderly and shamed warriors at the enemy to buy time.
Wrong. The Clans are more intergrated in combined arms than any other major power other than the Comguards, ELH and to a certain extent, the FC RCTs. Their air and infantry units are organic and intergral to any major combat operation. Unlike the IS, infantry units are not set aside as "secondary" forces, even though Elementals are prized less highly than Mechwarriors. Similarly, they actually have a higher ratio of aerospace fighters to ground element than the IS variant(a "lean" mech unit could count on 10 aerospace fighters to 30 battlemechs, compared to the IS "standard" doctrine of 6 fighters to 36 battlemechs. Larger mech units may have more mech points than fighter points, but a standard fighter point ALREADY contains 2 aerospace fighters. Using the "standard" organisation of 5 binaries, that means 20 aerospace fighters may be contained in a "standard" cluster.)
Even when we compare actual order of battle, the Clans intergrate aerospace and infantry units tighter and have a higher percentage than the IS. The sole difference is that the IS maintains a significantly larger component of free aerospace, conventional VTOL/ fighter and infantry contingent, and lastly, they include armour units whereas the Clans don't.

As for suicide infantry, that's the Jade Falcon trilogy. Conventional infantry garrisons exist in the Steel Viper as mentioned in Invading Clans. Furthermore, committing suicide for the sake of suicide does not earn glory and entry into the genepool. A SUCCESSFUL suicidal attack does. Which is no different from how Clan mechwarriors are willing to suffer higher rates of losses in training, as well as combat tactics that would result in higher casualties in order to win victories whereas the Inner Sphere won't.
The Inner Sphere wages total warfare (with all that it involves) and fields ungodly numbers of tanks, VTOL's, and infantry, as well as far more numerous mechs.
Errr... The Clan equivalent of the regiment is a Galaxy. This contains more aerospace fighters, more battlemechs and depending on how you play with the organisation chart, similar numbers of infantry units as armoured infantry.
The Inner Sphere has more troops and more worlds, that's why any Clan invasion after Tukayid was doomed to fail. But thats their strategic advantages.
The Clans don't even use artillery for pete's sake.
For fuck sake, no, no, no. Look up Von Strang World and how Clan Jade Falcon used artillery bombardment(Arrow IVs) and elementals to crack open Von Strang series of fortifications.

At best, the Clans don't use Snipers and Thumpers and dedicated Long Tom vehicles are no longer in their arsenal.
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Post by Swindle1984 »

PainRack wrote:
white_rabbit wrote: Isn't there a time travel incident somewhere in Battle-tech fluff related to ion storms and jump drives ?
Misjump using the new 40 ly jump drive. SLDF warship sweeping the rear of Kerensky Exodus jumps forward 300 years into the future, appearing over a SJOZ world.

Incidently, we can also point to this and the perception of time during the jump even though no actual transit time occurs to show that some form of time dilation and distance does occur during a KF jump.
When the fuck did THAT happen? :shock:


Reminds me of Far Country, the only novel featuring aliens. Not one, but two ships misjumped and ended up in the same place. Whether this was just some far-off location in uncharted space or an alternate dimension, no one seems to know.

Most fans pretend Far Country never happened.
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Post by Coalition »

Swindle1984 wrote:
PainRack wrote:Misjump using the new 40 ly jump drive. SLDF warship sweeping the rear of Kerensky Exodus jumps forward 300 years into the future, appearing over a SJOZ world.

Incidently, we can also point to this and the perception of time during the jump even though no actual transit time occurs to show that some form of time dilation and distance does occur during a KF jump.
When the fuck did THAT happen? :shock:
FASA book 1646, "Living Legends"

The Star League ship had an experimental drive on board to make it jump 40 ly instead of the standard 30 ly max. It took a bit longer than usual to arrive at its destination.

Of course, the crew on board that ship is a bit unusual. Basically, Kerensky gave the glory-seeking commander (Captain Cromwell) an entire crew of glory seekers, and sent them into the worst battles. They amazingly survived, and were finally assigned to test this engine, then meet Kerensky on the Exodus. They arrived late, met a Smoke Jaguar force, who looked in their records and found that Kerensky hated Captain Cromwell.

Oh, and the book is an RPG supplement, so the players just got shoved straight in that mess.
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