Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[omegaLancer]

Cross over, one of the rules of these us vs them discussion, is that both sides are limited to the technology that they normally possess. No backward engineering capture ships or gifts from enemy of the parties involve in the conflict..

The Magog swarm ship was found after the CW had fallen ( but it was suggested that the technology was a gift from the magog SOTA), and would not be technology normally possess by the CW ( no PSP cannon) while the tessact Tech would be allowable...

But as i remember it, the agents of the Spirit of the Abyss could not strike/ attack when out of phase ( if this the proper term for the effect). While they could not be attack, they could not attack in kind...I know that part about the magog larva, but only part of her must have been out of phase ( yet this too could not be correct. chuck it up to mystery of writer logic)..

But as the fight scene show, Tear and Charlemain was able to have a mexican standoff with that one assassin.

So your statement about the CW ship attacking while in that state would not seem valid...

[omegaLancer]

Cross over, one of the rules of these us vs them discussion, is that both sides are limited to the technology that they normally possess. No backward engineering capture ships or gifts from enemy of the parties involve in the conflict..

The Magog swarm ship was found after the CW had fallen ( but it was suggested that the technology was a gift from the magog SOTA), and would not be technology normally possess by the CW ( no PSP cannon) while the tessact Tech would be allowable...

But as i remember it, the agents of the Spirit of the Abyss could not strike/ attack when out of phase ( if this the proper term for the effect). While they could not be attack, they could not attack in kind...I know that part about the magog larva, but only part of her must have been out of phase ( yet this too could not be correct. chuck it up to mystery of writer logic)..

But as the fight scene show, Tear and Charlemain was able to have a mexican standoff with that one assassin.

So your statement about the CW ship attacking while in that state would not seem valid...

[Crossover_Maniac]

Yes thank you

"Kinetic energy at this speed would be 1.56E14 joules per kilogram or 37 kilotons per kilogram that 16,000 gigatons for a collision with an asteroid 40 meters in diameter with a density of 7000 kg/m^3. Considering how dense the Hoth asteroid field was, there would have been a minimum of hundreds of collisions per second. Putting ballistics aside, this would have overwelm even ISD shields in the energy department. An ISD's would have been overwelmed the instant it when the Hoth asteroid field."

Since the average turbo laser has a yield of 200GT, a boardside ( assuming a minuim of 30 Turbolaser ) would mean a minium damage of 6000 GT, and this does not take into the account that the HVY turbo laser (6 per boardside) would be at least 10x the power of 200GT. Add 12000 GT we would see that a star destroyer would be able to withstand a minium of 18000 GT. Getting hit by one good size meteor would have been close to over loading the shield.. Even at 1/2 the stated Velocity ( since you said it was not a straight out chase), we still see strikes in the 100's of gigatons

Now we see how and why of the famous Hoth Asteriod chase, and why the Ke missiles of Andromeda would be a joke in comparison .

Thanks for proving my point

I was actually disproving it. Remember the Mike Wong shield commentary. The sudden force from impacts will do more damage than a pure energy weapon even if they have the same amount of energy. Also, the shields would be overloaded by hitting one of them (just on a kinetic energy level). The Hoth asteroid field is rather dense. Even at relatively slow speed (1000 m/s relative to the average speed of the Hoth asteroids), there was an average of collision per second. Plowing through the asteroid field at 10,000 times that speed would have overload the shields within a fraction of a second. This would like a single ISD receiving a broadside from hundreds of ISD's. And that's just from the KE alone. The physical stress on the ship would succeeded even the forces produce by the acceleration of an ISD by a factor of almost a million.

velocity of Hoth asteroid relative to ISD after 5 minutes of 3000 g acceleration=8,820,000 m/s

Distance between shield and wall of the ship=10 meters.

v^2=2*aceleration*distance

acceleration=v^2/(2*distance)=8,820,000^2/(2*10)=3.89E12 m/s^2.

Mass of asteroid 40 meters on the side with a density of 7000 kg/m^3=40^3*7000=448E6 kg

Force necessary to stop Hoth asteroid at that speed=m*a=4.48E8*3.89E12=1.74E21 Newtons of force on the ship.

Assuming Mike Wong's estimates on the mass of the Executioner is correct, the mass of the Executioner=35E12 kg.

acceleration=Force/mass
acceleration=1.74E21/35E12=4.97E7 m/s^2 or 5,000,000 g's. This is 1600 times greater than the 30,000 m/s^2 acceleration estimate that for the fleet in RotJ. And that's for the Executioner. The accelerations on the other ships will be far more servere since they are 1/500 of the size, meaning 500 times the acceleration or 830,000 times more than what their engines are capable of. This far exceeds the structural capacity of any of the SW vessels. The only conclusion we can draw from this is the ships weren't flying through the Hoth asteroids at relativistic or even within 0.01c.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Cross over, one of the rules of these us vs them discussion, is that both sides are limited to the technology that they normally possess. No backward engineering capture ships or gifts from enemy of the parties involve in the conflict..

If that's the rule, then no stealing tech. Although, the ability on the part of CW to figure out and use alien technology has been shown in the series was the point I was making.

But as i remember it, the agents of the Spirit of the Abyss could not strike/ attack when out of phase ( if this the proper term for the effect). While they could not be attack, they could not attack in kind...I know that part about the magog larva, but only part of her must have been out of phase ( yet this too could not be correct. chuck it up to mystery of writer logic)..
...

However, a mercenary, as a part of a deal with Harper, used tesseracting to remove some of the Magog larva from Harper's body (with the rest removed once they got what they wanted). So, there can be some interactions between tesseracted and non-tesseracted objects, enough to allow a person to reach in and remove something within a person's body. Scaled up, that could mean a bomb planted on a Imperial warship by a tesseracted slipstream fighter.

[omegaLancer]

Actually mike was showing why Kinectic damage was so effective against Star trek vessel. As he show that Ramming attacks by small Jerhad ship totally destroy Star fleet ships , and klingon vessels..

The deflector dish of a Federation ship does not have the advance engineering shown by Empire.

No star war ship has ever been destroyed in this manner as long as the shields where up.

Even in the shield commentary M wong stated his believe that the shield were down when the meteor struck.

you remember later scenes show star destroyer pursuing the Falcon being struck by dozen of meteors, no shield failure here, but also they had just begun the chase, both the falcon and the ISD were not flooring it this time. Cause unlike the scene where the Falcon enter the Field ( remember Han was not paying attention to where he was going, he was too occupy on getting the hyperdrive working and avoiding the pursuing ISD), he was well aware of the danger and only was attempting to clear the field to perform a hyper jump.


In "Slave Ship" Bracket for turbo laser are design to withstand multi gigaton reactive forces generated when each gun was fire. So the I find it hard to believe that similar mounts would not be made for the shield Generators..

That means any forces or momentum generated by reactive force of stopping the object would press the relay against the neutronium cladded main hull ( which should be able to withstand pressure) un like the deflector dish of ST Vessel..


The fact is you stated that the meteor striking the ISD were going slow. The fact is that when the fleet first enter the Field they must have been traveling at a hi rate of speed ( you stated 6psl max) even if they travel slower they still were travel at high speed and the first few minutes would have been the most damage would have occured...

Since the It appears that the ISD struck in the bridge had no shield up at the time ( Many say it was due to using the Holo transmitted), it apparent that the shield must have been damage when they first enter the field..

No wonder Neela made his comment to Vader about the danger of the field.. ( It was a brave act on his part), but even with that no order for slowing down or avoiding the field was made.

The fact is that you state that SW vessel ould not stand up to the CW missiles cause they were scare of entering the field, and you agree that if the ship were pursuing the Falcon in a full out chase, then they must have been traveling at close to low relatitivic speed, this was the danger of that Neela fear ( also 3ceepo). a good size meteor( at even a 1/2 PSL) would have easily over load the stronger generator

The fact is that Star war ship uses inertial damper ( like Star trek) which behave like AG fields of Andromeda, and it been show that even the MF can withstand 100000's of G generated by a Nuetron star. Also the Particle shields are design to strengthen the Molecular Bonds of Material of the hull.

As seen in the chase scene near Hoth, two Star destroyer colliside with no ill effects. Proton torpedoes make 72000 G turns, Milleum falcon drop deep in the Gravitational fields of Neutron stars, so the statement of the nature of Structural limits is not valid. SW ships have demostrated that they can withstand unbelievable stress, even those generator in stoping hi speed projectiles....

[omegaLancer]

as you stated

However, a mercenary, as a part of a deal with Harper, used tesseracting to remove some of the Magog larva from Harper's body (with the rest removed once they got what they wanted). So, there can be some interactions between tesseracted and non-tesseracted objects, enough to allow a person to reach in and remove something within a person's body. Scaled up, that could mean a bomb planted on a Imperial warship by a tesseracted slipstream fighter.

If such arrange could have been done, would not the SOA had done this for the Maggog Swarm ships, since he possessed the technology before the common wealth did... What chance would the Common wealth had have against a fleet of Magog ship that could ignore barrages of missiles and then plant Maggogs or bombs within CW ships... ( Humm maybe they already can do it)..

It seem that while the SOA has a much better handle on Tesseracting, then CW ( hell Harper almost destroy all time space with his little experiment) it would seem that they are not at the SOA level of command of the Technology.

They can make planet disappear, rip holes in time space, but even in the Episode with the Tarn Vedan, Her grasp of Tesseract tech was not to the stage where she was immune to harm ( did she not get seriousily wounded, and lose her mates), and I doubt tha hight of the common wealth, such a mastery of this techology would have existed,at least one that could have allow them to use it as a weapon...

Maybe the next season we get a better handle on the limits and capabilities of Tesseract Technology, but as it stand is seem that the commonwealth would not have been able to make Phased strike fighters..

[His Divine Shadow]

Let me see… Losing to teddy bears, a motley band of rebels and a farm boy

Teddy bears, pretty much like the Magog from what I've seen of them.

It would attract attention but one or two sighting of a slipstream capable vessel isn't going to send the Empire into a full wartime alert.

No but you can expect a Star Destroyer coming there to investigate a new alien species with an unknown form of propulsion-

Then there is the detail that several sections of the galaxy are outside the control of the Empire. Sure there might be some questions asked but in the end they wouldn't have much to go on other than someone is snooping around. The other is that Argosy Spec Ops isn't going to cruise around in a slipstream equipped vessel they're going to acquire a local vessel and do so in the most convert means.

And thats what the Imperials will do too, well assuming this works out as you think, I don't, because I think the connection is a wormhole between the galaxies.
It all depends on

A question.
I've never understood how the Force which is directly linked to midi-chlorian are supposed to affect or detect others from outside the Star Wars Galaxy… It's not exactly like hard to detect the things a simple blood test can do it so they must not be there for other major Sci-fi powers. Considering the Vong are from outside the galaxy and we see how well they get along with the Force I don't think it's predicable to say how the Force would detect a given group.

I've never understood how people can misunderstand the concept of midichlorians so easily?
I think it's on purpose, Midichlorians does not create the force, they allow individuals to sense them, but all organic life has midichlorians, it's something basic, like carbon in organic life.

And the Vong fallacy again I see... If you really understood this you wouldn't bring out that fallacy wich has been so thouroughly destroyed.

The Vong being extra-galactic has nothing todo with them being undetectable in the force, infact Jaina used the force to talk to the organic brain of her stolen YV ship, Luke used the force to communicate with a Yammoskk, both extra-galactic creatures.

And Tahiri, the Jedi apprentice who was kidnapped by the Vong and brainwashed into thinking like a Vong, she can on purpose start to think like a Vong if she wants and then she dissapears from the force senses of others, just like if she was a Yuuzhan Vong, yet she still has midi-chlorians and everything and she's not even Extra-Galactic.

A small comment on the Emperor this is the same guy who managed to get his Empire destroyed, two Death Stars destroyer, his best Legion of Stormtroopers beat by Teddy Bears and then tossed down a shaft while supposely being able to sense the slightest of details? Then we have the small question of why Vader had to call in so many Bounty Hunters when the Emperor shouldhave just been able to say they are here…

And these are relevant in what way? Oh no way whatsoever, thank you for trying but irrelevant slandering like that just doesn't work in arguments.

It's called distance and for once I can call it the lovely thing that is the ICS. We know from the Widening Gyre that Commonwealth Slipscouts have explored out to the Virgo Galactic Cluster. In case you don't know that would place it roughly 66,000,000 light years from Commonwealth Space. Now we'll be real conservative and say for example the Commonwealth has done enough scouting out to 20,000,000 light years that the Empire can't be that close. Considering the speeds that ships in slipstream can travel at you have a very conservative number there. According to a tidbit I picked up now in several places the ICS the Acclamator only has an operational range of 250,000 light years. Let's be mega generous and say ISDs have fives times the operational range or 1,250,000. That would place them at the capability to cross about 1/20th of that 20,000,000 light years or 1/66th the capability to reach out the range where we know slipscouts have explored.

No, they are connected by a wormhole and much much farther apart I say, so that argument is null and void, if you seriously think I am going to let you dictate a disgustingly pro-CW scenario like this you're insane.
Oh and you forget the fact that they already have the capability to traverse those distances, the outbound flight project? Does it say anything to you? It didn't take them much to modify the ship to traverse intra-galatic distances.
And with estimated hyperdrive speeds of 50 million C they can cross 66 million LY's in 3 weeks.

Imperial Capital Ships are puddle jumpers compared to your average Commonwealth scoutship.

Irrelevant because you're trying to dictate the situation to your advantage, I'm not going to follow on that leash, I say they are so far apart that the only way they can cross over is to use a wormhole.

The other answer is that they have very little information to know where the Commonwealth is and a lot of space to explore. Then they have to cross that space and take all that time. It's an operation that will take years at very least to manage to pull off between gathering supplies and then sending out scouts.

The Commonwealth meanwhile has a lot of time to implement Imperial technology into their vessels and launch an invasion of their own. There's an idea leak the location of the Commonwealth and then hit the Imps while most of their fleet is millions of light years from anything. Considering there are plenty of people or ships that the Commonwealth can get their hands on to acquire new technology they'll have a head start on integrating it into their own vessels.

Oh, too bad, they don't anymore.
And there is no proof the CW are the ones who detect the Empire anyway.
There is a wormhole, the Empire finds it and sends through scouts, they blockade it and send through scouts.
And now the Empire has plenty of time to implement CW technology and devise defenses against and so on, and all the time they are building
See how easy it is to swing the table, there is no way I am going to follow your scenario.

Well if you want the Commonwealth to stick to their own technology than they just break out the Vedran toys, While the Imperial fleet is stuck out in deep space for a very long time they simply start mass producing tesseracting technology that they never had time to implement because of the Fall. The Imps arrive and can't find the Commonwealth because their worlds are in shadow dimensions. Then they get hit by Glorious Heritage Cruisers and other High Guard ships that their weapons simply pass right through.

You have to prove the Vedrans have any godamn toys whatsoever at this time period.

Oh well we'll just bring out the Emperor and he'll make the Tarn Vedra solar system or planet explode, or we'll use Centerpoint station and drag Tarn Vedra into hyperspace and leave it there, y'know the funny thing about hyperspace is that if the thing not dragged in there has a special energy shield covering it, it will be destroyed, buh bye.

Hey I'm not the only one who can make these outrageous claims.

You're the one dismissing information because it doesn't suit you. The Sabra Jaguar signed into the RSC as a single faction. If they had signed on each of their worlds as a member world Hunt's Commonwealth would have been founded that day. The Sabra-Jaguar were able to raise a fleer, hold off, and combat the Drago Kasov Successfully when the Dragans have been stated to control hundreds of world. It would also explain why factions like the Than who controlled over 100 worlds managed to enter the Commonwealth as one group. Then there's the fact that the Kalderans are also referred to as a single governing faction in the Commonwealth known as the Kaldera Commune and so were the Persieds.

No I am not, I am saying it how it is, the CW had 1.5 million _worlds_ total, not 1.5 million _factions_, they had a couple of dozen factions or so in the Commonwealth, you KNOW this, they have clearly differentiated between factions and member worlds, so don't try and bullshit me with this anymore.

[His Divine Shadow]

And just how does the Empire conduct fleet battles without communications with each other or do they drop their shields in the middle of battle?

Note the words holo-com, not all other com, they can use short range comms too, but not holos or anything like that, for Vader to have that conference of his he needed to use the holo system.

And you haven't offered up any proof he was only referring to the small support ships. Drop this red herring.

You drop your bullshit fallacies, and since you can't prove he was talking about the ISD's you can go shove it, your assumptions are worthless.

How fast was the slugs going? How big is 'bigass'?

It's a railgun, they fire slugs at near C velocities, that gun was a huge weapon visible from space and it had it's own theatre shields and everything, conservative estimations are 1000kg slugs at .9c or faster.

One Sun Crusher vs. hundreds of thousands of Nova Bombs.

Or hundreds of thousands of galaxy Gun missiles who can fire all

When has Centerpoint station ever moved a planet across millions of light-years?

When it created the Corellian system.

The High Guard is only the elite branch of the larger Home Guard.

And so if the Imperial Navy with it's 25k ships.

Seems a little odd to me that the Empire would use light-speed communications when FTL communications are available to them.

It seems excrutiangly dumb to me that they would not use all aviable mediums aviable, but they do, a multitude of sensors allows for greater diversity and resistance to enemy ECM.

That's okay. ISD turbolasers had trouble hitting the Falcon when it was less than a kilometer away.

You fail to understand what was being done, those flakbursts being called misses is highly assumptions, they where hitting the MF with flakbursts because a direct hit could kill them, wich it nearly did later on when they where accidentially hit, they where trying to capture them.

And you still haven't convince me turbolaser bolts can travel at c. Just watch any of the SW movies and note the time delay between the turbolaser firing and the target being hit.

I don't give a shit what you think, I know the truth, you can block it out if you wish.
Let me note something you have obviously missed.

1. where is it stated that the impact of a TL on a shield must result in an visible explosion when the shield is infact capable of absorbing energy.

2. The bolts are physical, it is much easier to deflect them than absorb them, so while the invisible beams are being absorbed, the bolts are being deflected, giving the illusion that the bolts carry the damage.

Why should we stick to just CW tech? In the episode "All Too Human", a colony of humans was able to gain Magog technology from finding one of their swarm ships intact and used the technology to destroy a planet controlled by AI's with PSP's. Of course, why would we want their tech anyway. One good roadmap of the SW galaxy and the Empire is in flame within a year

ROFL, the delusions are strong in this one, within one year the invading CW fleet is nothig but debris in space, all the while the Imperials have built up defenses and planetary shields and defensive weaponry over every two-bit planet and the Empire is now focused on destroying the extra-galactic alien menace that tried to invade.
The next month Tarn Vedra is hit by a gigantic repulsor beam exiting from hyperspace that blows it all the way to hell.

[His Divine Shadow]

Incase anyone wonders, a single HTL shot is worth about 125,000 OM-5 missiles.

[omegaLancer]

Well shadow said it all, the Hyper velocity Cannon not only fire heavy slugs than 1kg pay load, it also fired it a 90psl... The major problem cross over is that you are not basing your agruement on official or cannon Statement..

While mike's Shielding comment are enlighting, he base it on the meteor striking at 150 kt, while the Novel about Empire strike back and Anakin the story of Vader have meteors hitting a pursuring star destroyer in the megaton ranges ( 7.5 X more powerful than Wong's caluations), and not just a single strike but multiples strikes repeatily.... That Destroyer and captain escape the incident unharm ( well the captain didnot, but that was Vaders doing). Also his Agruement was gear toward the weaker less advance federation. The Empire not only have better mechanical engineering skill, but also can use their shield technology to strenghten already dense hull ( Hull alloy with Nuetronium). Even a relative weak vessel like the Falcon can surivive the massive tidal forces of a nuetron star ( coming far closer than any federation vessel could of).

As discuss earily the intial chase would have left the falcon and ships chasing her at high speed, high enought that any large meteor would have over loaded the shields of ISD's. Even after they had slow down to scan the field, they were still expose to constant strikes over period of days, with out any chance of repairs.

We also know that concussion missiles dulpicate KE attack when striking shields, producting physical shock waves... but these missile are used as Armor piecing devices, the true shield buster are Proton Torpedoe that act as Atomic shape charge concertating Hi yield fusion blast into a small area..

As for who would be invading who, it depend on the circumstance that both side met. And it Doubleful that a Convert Ops team would be sent on a first contact mission ( it would either be a scientist team or a XMS carrying a special first contact team). Since the Rebel were mostily on the run when the empire was at it height, most likily it would be the Imperial they would contact first, and it would be guantee that the Emperor or his rep, would paint a picture of a stable law abiding galactic civilation, with happy contented poeple. By the time the CW learn different the Empire would be gear into meeting the CW at the Empire favor...

[Crossover_Maniac]

As seen in the chase scene near Hoth, two Star destroyer colliside with no ill effects.

It also took several second for the two star destroyers to cross the entire length of their ships, so they couldn't have been going more than a few hundred meters per second relative to each other.

Proton torpedoes make 72000 G turns

Modern day technology allows for electrons to be placed inside of artillery shells with similar accelerations and still function. No big deal here.

Milleum falcon drop deep in the Gravitational fields of Neutron stars, so the statement of the nature of Structural limits is not valid.

That depends, how close was the Falcon to the neutron star?

SW ships have demostrated that they can withstand unbelievable stress, even those generator in stoping hi speed projectiles....

So far, no SW ship except for the artillery pieces has in excess of 3000 g's, far short of what I calculated for the impact with the Hoth asteroids at relativistic velocity.

[His Divine Shadow]

It was within 1000km, read MW's page on it.

[His Divine Shadow]

You know, if we conservatively assume only 1000kg slugs for a planetary railgun and said it only fired at that NR cruiser for 10 seconds it would impart about 460 gigatons of Kinetic energy.
And the shields held and this is lowend.

A GHC or XMC or whatever puts out 6.4GT a second or 64GT a second.
It would require over 5 XMC's per cruiser at this rate, the scales are definitly tipped in SW's favor.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Let me see… Losing to teddy bears, a motley band of rebels and a farm boy

Teddy bears, pretty much like the Magog from what I've seen of them.

Teddy bears several times stronger than a human and sprays paralysing poison, and not to mention those nasty set of claws. A Magog will make a quick meal of an Ewok if the Ewok is lucky. If not, it's becomes baby Magog food.

It's called distance and for once I can call it the lovely thing that is the ICS. We know from the Widening Gyre that Commonwealth Slipscouts have explored out to the Virgo Galactic Cluster. In case you don't know that would place it roughly 66,000,000 light years from Commonwealth Space. Now we'll be real conservative and say for example the Commonwealth has done enough scouting out to 20,000,000 light years that the Empire can't be that close. Considering the speeds that ships in slipstream can travel at you have a very conservative number there. According to a tidbit I picked up now in several places the ICS the Acclamator only has an operational range of 250,000 light years. Let's be mega generous and say ISDs have fives times the operational range or 1,250,000. That would place them at the capability to cross about 1/20th of that 20,000,000 light years or 1/66th the capability to reach out the range where we know slipscouts have explored.

No, they are connected by a wormhole and much much farther apart I say, so that argument is null and void,

You're forces are bottle-necked by this one solitary passage to the CW galaxies (and only one galaxy, the CW is stretched out across several galaxies). If the wormhole is destroyed or captured, the Empire cannot invade. OTOH: the CW is not depended on the wormhole for extragalactic travel. I believe it's quite relevant.

if you seriously think I am going to let you dictate a disgustingly pro-CW scenario like this you're insane.

Why should we give the Empire any special advantage in the fight? The person who first posted this fight never said the two would meet via wormhole. Since, the initial post for this thread never said there was a wormhole, there is no wormhole.

Oh and you forget the fact that they already have the capability to traverse those distances, the outbound flight project?

Intergalatic travel:
Empire: outboud flight project
Commonwealth: routine travel made by freighter pilots

Does it say anything to you? It didn't take them much to modify the ship to traverse intra-galatic distances.
And with estimated hyperdrive speeds of 50 million C they can cross 66 million LY's in 3 weeks.

Mother of all things big and small, do you know what 'C' means. It means the speed of light. If you're going 50 million C, it takes you one year to cross a distance fo 50 million light years. It'll take about one year and four months to cross 66 million light years. The Andromeda cross that distance in only 13 months flying blind through random slipstream portals.

Imperial Capital Ships are puddle jumpers compared to your average Commonwealth scoutship.

Irrelevant because you're trying to dictate the situation to your advantage, I'm not going to follow on that leash, I say they are so far apart that the only way they can cross over is to use a wormhole.

No, only the Empire can cross that distance is by wormhole. The Commonwealth ships can make that sort of distance easily.

The other answer is that they have very little information to know where the Commonwealth is and a lot of space to explore. Then they have to cross that space and take all that time. It's an operation that will take years at very least to manage to pull off between gathering supplies and then sending out scouts.

The Commonwealth meanwhile has a lot of time to implement Imperial technology into their vessels and launch an invasion of their own. There's an idea leak the location of the Commonwealth and then hit the Imps while most of their fleet is millions of light years from anything. Considering there are plenty of people or ships that the Commonwealth can get their hands on to acquire new technology they'll have a head start on integrating it into their own vessels.

Oh, too bad, they don't anymore.
And there is no proof the CW are the ones who detect the Empire anyway.
There is a wormhole, the Empire finds it and sends through scouts, they blockade it and send through scouts.
And now the Empire has plenty of time to implement CW technology and devise defenses against and so on, and all the time they are building
See how easy it is to swing the table, there is no way I am going to follow your scenario.

As I said earlier, who said anything about a wormhole?

Well if you want the Commonwealth to stick to their own technology than they just break out the Vedran toys, While the Imperial fleet is stuck out in deep space for a very long time they simply start mass producing tesseracting technology that they never had time to implement because of the Fall. The Imps arrive and can't find the Commonwealth because their worlds are in shadow dimensions. Then they get hit by Glorious Heritage Cruisers and other High Guard ships that their weapons simply pass right through.

You have to prove the Vedrans have any godamn toys whatsoever at this time period.

Where have we seen this argument before? Oh, yeah. Trekkies claiming the DS was some sort of revolutionary jump in technology. The Vedrans tesseracted their homeplanet immediately after sneak attack by the Nietzscheans on their homeworld.

Oh well we'll just bring out the Emperor and he'll make the Tarn Vedra solar system or planet explode, or we'll use Centerpoint station and drag Tarn Vedra into hyperspace and leave it there, y'know the funny thing about hyperspace is that if the thing not dragged in there has a special energy shield covering it, it will be destroyed, buh bye.

If Centerpoint station is so powerful, then why the hell did the Empire bother with the Death Star? The use of Centerpoint station is probably very limited.

Hey I'm not the only one who can make these outrageous claims.

So, what else did you said on this thread that was outrageous?

You're the one dismissing information because it doesn't suit you. The Sabra Jaguar signed into the RSC as a single faction. If they had signed on each of their worlds as a member world Hunt's Commonwealth would have been founded that day. The Sabra-Jaguar were able to raise a fleer, hold off, and combat the Drago Kasov Successfully when the Dragans have been stated to control hundreds of world. It would also explain why factions like the Than who controlled over 100 worlds managed to enter the Commonwealth as one group. Then there's the fact that the Kalderans are also referred to as a single governing faction in the Commonwealth known as the Kaldera Commune and so were the Persieds.

No I am not, I am saying it how it is, the CW had 1.5 million _worlds_ total, not 1.5 million _factions_, they had a couple of dozen factions or so in the Commonwealth, you KNOW this, they have clearly differentiated between factions and member worlds, so don't try and bullshit me with this anymore.

Renewed_Valor has just showed you proof directly from the TV series that member worlds can be composed of more than one system, and you're calling it 'bullshit'? If you're argue against using canon material from the show, why don't you just say the GHC hulls are made of cardboard or Nova bombs just cause a star to just cause a really large solar flare instead of creating a supernova event?

[His Divine Shadow]

[Q]Teddy bears several times stronger than a human and sprays paralysing poison, and not to mention those nasty set of claws. A Magog will make a quick meal of an Ewok if the Ewok is lucky. If not, it's becomes baby Magog food.[/Q]

Did you watch the show? The magog are nothing like what they are harked up to be, Dylan's friend in one ep. wrestles with one and wins, Tyr and Harper killed them by the dozens.

[Q]You're forces are bottle-necked by this one solitary passage to the CW galaxies (and only one galaxy, the CW is stretched out across several galaxies). If the wormhole is destroyed or captured, the Empire cannot invade. OTOH: the CW is not depended on the wormhole for extragalactic travel. I believe it's quite relevant.[/Q]

The galaxies are not that far away from what I can recall, and it doesn't matter if it only comes out into one galaxy, they can get to the others even if they where 66 million light years away.

[Q]Why should we give the Empire any special advantage in the fight? The person who first posted this fight never said the two would meet via wormhole. Since, the initial post for this thread never said there was a wormhole, there is no wormhole.[/Q]

And it sure ain't your way either, we're not giving the CW any advantages in this fight either, and you just pointed out that a wormhole would not be giving the Empire any real advantage since there are 2 more galaxies.

[Q]Intergalatic travel:
Empire: outboud flight project
Commonwealth: routine travel made by freighter pilots[/Q]

Irrelevant, they have the technological capability

[Q]Mother of all things big and small, do you know what 'C' means. It means the speed of light.[/Q]

I know it perfectly, it was a small error I missed.

[Q]If you're going 50 million C, it takes you one year to cross a distance fo 50 million light years. It'll take about one year and four months to cross 66 million light years. The Andromeda cross that distance in only 13 months flying blind through random slipstream portals.[/Q]

About the same then.
My error came in me confusing hours with days.

[Q]No, only the Empire can cross that distance is by wormhole. The Commonwealth ships can make that sort of distance easily.[/Q]

Thats a nice load of unsupported crap.

[Q]As I said earlier, who said anything about a wormhole?[/Q]

Who said anything about the CW being the first and traversing the distance normally?
No one.

[Q]Where have we seen this argument before? Oh, yeah. Trekkies claiming the DS was some sort of revolutionary jump in technology. The Vedrans tesseracted their homeplanet immediately after sneak attack by the Nietzscheans on their homeworld.[/Q]

No, you have to prove at wich point in time this is, but you know, it's true, tesseracting is a new and revolutionary jump in technology in the Andromeda universe, I wonder why tesseracting wasn't used before like when fighting the magog or nietszcheans.

[Q]If Centerpoint station is so powerful, then why the hell did the Empire bother with the Death Star? The use of Centerpoint station is probably very limited.[/Q]

Because nobody knew what it really was until about 16-18 years after ANH, and then somebody broke it.

[Q]So, what else did you said on this thread that was outrageous?[/Q]

I have said nothing, I merely respond.

[Q]Renewed_Valor has just showed you proof directly from the TV series that member worlds can be composed of more than one system, and you're calling it 'bullshit'? If you're argue against using canon material from the show, why don't you just say the GHC hulls are made of cardboard or Nova bombs just cause a star to just cause a really large solar flare instead of creating a supernova event?[/Q]

Renewed Valor tried to claim that by member worlds they mean factions and that rommie didn't include all the worlds in her listing.

I find that ludicrous, we've never even seen that many factions or species, I don't see how that changes anything since even if they admit a faction as one it's member worlds are still added too and counted, I say Andromeda did state how many worlds they had, not factions, I don't see why she should have answered to another question when she was asked how many worlds the CW had.

[Crossover_Maniac]

And just how does the Empire conduct fleet battles without communications with each other or do they drop their shields in the middle of battle?

Note the words holo-com, not all other com, they can use short range comms too, but not holos or anything like that, for Vader to have that conference of his he needed to use the holo system.

Let me get this straight. They're in the middle of a very dense asteroid field. They're in constant danger from a catastropic collision. They need to communicate withe Vader's flagship. Now, instead of using another form of communication that keeps them out of danger, they use the holo-com that requires their shields to be dropped leaving them vulerable to attack. This is either complete BS or Imperial ISD's are morons.

And you haven't offered up any proof he was only referring to the small support ships. Drop this red herring.

You drop your bullshit fallacies, and since you can't prove he was talking about the ISD's you can go shove it, your assumptions are worthless.

And explain why the burden of proof is on me?

How fast was the slugs going? How big is 'bigass'?

It's a railgun, they fire slugs at near C velocities, that gun was a huge weapon visible from space and it had it's own theatre shields and everything, conservative estimations are 1000kg slugs at .9c or faster.

1). The measurement in size that is relevant for a railgun is the lenght of barrel.

2). Why are you making estimations? Wasn't the mass of the projectiles, their speed and rate of fire mentioned?

One Sun Crusher vs. hundreds of thousands of Nova Bombs.

Or hundreds of thousands of galaxy Gun missiles who can fire all

So, the galaxy gun can hit a planet in another galaxy 66 million light-years away minimum without any knowledge of where their targets are. Sure

When has Centerpoint station ever moved a planet across millions of light-years?

When it created the Corellian system.

Are you saying Centerpoint station moved planets from one galaxy to the next?

The High Guard is only the elite branch of the larger Home Guard.

And so if the Imperial Navy with it's 25k ships.

That makes them about even in ship number.

Seems a little odd to me that the Empire would use light-speed communications when FTL communications are available to them.

It seems excrutiangly dumb to me that they would not use all aviable mediums aviable, but they do, a multitude of sensors allows for greater diversity and resistance to enemy ECM.

That's like people using smoke signals, pony express, and telegraphs to communicate in modern society.

That's okay. ISD turbolasers had trouble hitting the Falcon when it was less than a kilometer away.

You fail to understand what was being done, those flakbursts being called misses is highly assumptions, they where hitting the MF with flakbursts because a direct hit could kill them, wich it nearly did later on when they where accidentially hit, they where trying to capture them.

Why flakbursts? Why not go to lower settings on the light turbolasers and score a direct hit?

And you still haven't convince me turbolaser bolts can travel at c. Just watch any of the SW movies and note the time delay between the turbolaser firing and the target being hit.

I don't give a shit what you think,

And yet you're arguing with me on this messageboard.

I know the truth, you can block it out if you wish.
Let me note something you have obviously missed.

1. where is it stated that the impact of a TL on a shield must result in an visible explosion when the shield is infact capable of absorbing energy.

There was a time delay between the turbolaser firing and the Hoth asteroids vaporizing either though the distance was less than a kilometer. That can only happen if turbolasers bolts, visible and invisible portions, travel at c, unless of course the Hoth asteroids have shield generators.

2. The bolts are physical, it is much easier to deflect them than absorb them, so while the invisible beams are being absorbed, the bolts are being deflected, giving the illusion that the bolts carry the damage.

So, Jedis are absorbing the invisible portions of a blaster bolt while deflecting the harmless, visible portion of the beam with their lightsabers. Sort of make using a lightsaber redunant.

Why should we stick to just CW tech? In the episode "All Too Human", a colony of humans was able to gain Magog technology from finding one of their swarm ships intact and used the technology to destroy a planet controlled by AI's with PSP's. Of course, why would we want their tech anyway. One good roadmap of the SW galaxy and the Empire is in flame within a year

ROFL, the delusions are strong in this one, within one year the invading CW fleet is nothig but debris in space, all the while the Imperials have built up defenses and planetary shields and defensive weaponry over every two-bit planet and the Empire is now focused on destroying the extra-galactic alien menace that tried to invade.
The next month Tarn Vedra is hit by a gigantic repulsor beam exiting from hyperspace that blows it all the way to hell.

My delusions can never be stronger than yours. The Empire capital ships that with a maximum speed of only 50,000,000 c covering a distance of 66 million light-years in three weeks, using a superweapon that can move and destroy planets across galatic distances, which was completely abandomed in favor of a slow moving moon-size planetkiller that has to be within 50 million kilometers of its intended target, outranging ships that can hit targets accurately within 1.5 light-minutes away even though they couldn't hit a ship less than one ship's lenght away. And being lead to victory by a man who lost his empire dispite his gigantic space fleet and two superweapons to a farm boy, a smuggler, two droids, and a couple of teddy bears.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Let me get this straight. They're in the middle of a very dense asteroid field. They're in constant danger from a catastropic collision. They need to communicate withe Vader's flagship. Now, instead of using another form of communication that keeps them out of danger, they use the holo-com that requires their shields to be dropped leaving them vulerable to attack. This is either complete BS or Imperial ISD's are morons.

I meant to say, "This is either complete BS or Imperial ISD captains are morons." My kingdom for the ability to edit my messages.

[His Divine Shadow]

Let me get this straight. They're in the middle of a very dense asteroid field. They're in constant danger from a catastropic collision. They need to communicate withe Vader's flagship. Now, instead of using another form of communication that keeps them out of danger, they use the holo-com that requires their shields to be dropped leaving them vulerable to attack. This is either complete BS or Imperial ISD's are morons.

If you'll actually bother to watch the movie you can see they had chosen a quite asteroid free portion of the belt compared to other sections.

And explain why the burden of proof is on me?

It's not on me thats for sure, your the one who is saying he talked about ISD's you dolt, I say you can't prove that and that there 20 ships total, that is 15 other unknown ships, and that fighters would also count in, and in lieu of the ICs and all other evidence presented I have an iron-clad case.

1). The measurement in size that is relevant for a railgun is the lenght of barrel.

It was a huge planetary railgun big enough that it had it's own shield generator of the same strenght as Hoth.
lenght of the barrel? They have railguns on the AT-TE's that aren't long at all.

2). Why are you making estimations? Wasn't the mass of the projectiles, their speed and rate of fire mentioned?

Only estimations we can make are low-end figures we can be sure are in the low-end, in order to appease the anti-warsies.

So, the galaxy gun can hit a planet in another galaxy 66 million light-years away minimum without any knowledge of where their targets are. Sure

Just move it through the wormhole.

Are you saying Centerpoint station moved planets from one galaxy to the next?

Not that I know of, no reason it couldn't, the problems would be in accuratly getting the planets position, then again they could also move it.

That makes them about even in ship number.

Not when we count in the little ships like frigates and small cruisers.

That's like people using smoke signals, pony express, and telegraphs to communicate in modern society.

No it's not, it's millitary protocoll, anything else would painfully stupid, we still use wires and couriers today in the millitary even though we have radio.
Plus they have optical sensors too.
Plus we know they use it, Leia talked about lightspeed transmission limitations when she was talking to people on a planet not far away, they have both.

Why flakbursts? Why not go to lower settings on the light turbolasers and score a direct hit?

Did you see that? It almost killed them, flakbursts are the only safe way they can disable them.

And yet you're arguing with me on this messageboard.

There are other people watching.

There was a time delay between the turbolaser firing and the Hoth asteroids vaporizing either though the distance was less than a kilometer. That can only happen if turbolasers bolts, visible and invisible portions, travel at c, unless of course the Hoth asteroids have shield generators.

Allow me to explain some basics to you, the time it took was a small fraction of a second, this is enough time to heat the asteroid so that it either violently explodes or is vaporized, dwell time.

So, Jedis are absorbing the invisible portions of a blaster bolt while deflecting the harmless, visible portion of the beam with their lightsabers. Sort of make using a lightsaber redunant.

Ugh
Blasters are plasma weapons.

My delusions can never be stronger than yours.

You've just proven yourself wrong.

The Empire capital ships that with a maximum speed of only 50,000,000 c covering a distance of 66 million light-years in three weeks,[/Q]

I see, this is where you publicly display your stupidity?
Too bad there is a wormhole.

[Q]using a superweapon that can move and destroy planets across galatic distances, which was completely abandomed in favor of a slow moving moon-size planetkiller that has to be within 50 million kilometers of its intended target

Now you have displayed incredible idiocy because no one knew of Centrepoints stations true power then.

outranging ships that can hit targets accurately within 1.5 light-minutes away even though they couldn't hit a ship less than one ship's lenght away.

Repeatedly proven wrong like the drivel it is.

And being lead to victory by a man who lost his empire dispite his gigantic space fleet and two superweapons to a farm boy, a smuggler, two droids, and a couple of teddy bears

And thats this evenings portion of "help I can't debate so I'll ignore the facts and throw feces that will only show what a weak case I have". See you tomorrow.

[Crossover_Maniac]

The galaxies are not that far away from what I can recall, and it doesn't matter if it only comes out into one galaxy, they can get to the others even if they where 66 million light years away.

[Q]Why should we give the Empire any special advantage in the fight? The person who first posted this fight never said the two would meet via wormhole. Since, the initial post for this thread never said there was a wormhole, there is no wormhole.[/Q]

And it sure ain't your way either, we're not giving the CW any advantages in this fight either, and you just pointed out that a wormhole would not be giving the Empire any real advantage since there are 2 more galaxies.

Irrelevant to whether it's fair or not. The orginial post never specified a wormhole giving access to the CW galaxies. This is considered outside assistance.

[Q]Intergalatic travel:
Empire: outboud flight project
Commonwealth: routine travel made by freighter pilots[/Q]

Irrelevant, they have the technological capability

It is when you need supplies and troops to replace those lost in battle. It's called logistics. Wars have been won and lost over it.

[Q]No, only the Empire can cross that distance is by wormhole. The Commonwealth ships can make that sort of distance easily.[/Q]

Thats a nice load of unsupported crap.

Renewed_Valour1 stated in a previous post Beka made the trip from the Orion Arm of the Milky Way to the Triangulum galaxy within 2 to 3 minutes of piloting. That's 100,000 light-years in period of minutes.

[Q]As I said earlier, who said anything about a wormhole?[/Q]

Who said anything about the CW being the first and traversing the distance normally?
No one.

So, the Emperor's deep exploration vessels radios to the Empire about the CW. One year and four months later, a fleet of ISD's invade the CW. And notice, only ISD's. The older and smaller SW capital ships can't travel as fast and will lag behind taking years to get to the CW galaxies.

[Q]Where have we seen this argument before? Oh, yeah. Trekkies claiming the DS was some sort of revolutionary jump in technology. The Vedrans tesseracted their homeplanet immediately after sneak attack by the Nietzscheans on their homeworld.[/Q]

No, you have to prove at wich point in time this is,

At the fall of the CW, 300 years before the timeline of the TV series, at least, before they develop the ability to tesseract an entire planet. I'd doubt they went from tesseracting people to tesseracting their homeworld in one day.

but you know, it's true, tesseracting is a new and revolutionary jump in technology in the Andromeda universe, I wonder why tesseracting wasn't used before like when fighting the magog or nietszcheans.

The Vedrans kept their best technology to themselves. They were only attacked by the Nietszcheans at the beginning of the Fall of the Commonwealth because it was surprise attack, and their entire empire was falling apart before before they could take action to prevent due to an internal enemy, the Nietszcheans.

[Q]If Centerpoint station is so powerful, then why the hell did the Empire bother with the Death Star? The use of Centerpoint station is probably very limited.[/Q]

Because nobody knew what it really was until about 16-18 years after ANH, and then somebody broke it.

More examples of Imperial incompetents. And I thought the Russians had a Micky Mouse operation for losing a few suitcase nukes.

[Q]So, what else did you said on this thread that was outrageous?[/Q]

I have said nothing, I merely respond.

[Q]Renewed_Valor has just showed you proof directly from the TV series that member worlds can be composed of more than one system, and you're calling it 'bullshit'? If you're argue against using canon material from the show, why don't you just say the GHC hulls are made of cardboard or Nova bombs just cause a star to just cause a really large solar flare instead of creating a supernova event?[/Q]

Renewed Valor tried to claim that by member worlds they mean factions and that rommie didn't include all the worlds in her listing.

I find that ludicrous, we've never even seen that many factions or species, I don't see how that changes anything since even if they admit a faction as one it's member worlds are still added too and counted, I say Andromeda did state how many worlds they had, not factions, I don't see why she should have answered to another question when she was asked how many worlds the CW had.

Factions vary in size. A space station was considered a member (much to my surprise), as was a few individual planets. But the evidence pointed out by RV1 proves individual members can consist of more than one world.

[His Divine Shadow]

Irrelevant to whether it's fair or not. The orginial post never specified a wormhole giving access to the CW galaxies. This is considered outside assistance.

And the original post didn't specify the CW getting access to Sw either.

It is when you need supplies and troops to replace those lost in battle. It's called logistics. Wars have been won and lost over it.

And thats what your riding your argument on.

Renewed_Valour1 stated in a previous post Beka made the trip from the Orion Arm of the Milky Way to the Triangulum galaxy within 2 to 3 minutes of piloting. That's 100,000 light-years in period of minutes.

So? slipstream varies greatly.
Hyperdrive doesn't and is therefore very good when it comes to strategy on a galactic level

So, the Emperor's deep exploration vessels radios to the Empire about the CW. One year and four months later, a fleet of ISD's invade the CW. And notice, only ISD's. The older and smaller SW capital ships can't travel as fast and will lag behind taking years to get to the CW galaxies.

And that only works if you will get your twisted pro-cw version of the scenario, wich you won't.

At the fall of the CW, 300 years before the timeline of the TV series, at least, before they develop the ability to tesseract an entire planet. I'd doubt they went from tesseracting people to tesseracting their homeworld in one day.

Or the other way around.

The Vedrans kept their best technology to themselves. They were only attacked by the Nietszcheans at the beginning of the Fall of the Commonwealth because it was surprise attack, and their entire empire was falling apart before before they could take action to prevent due to an internal enemy, the Nietszcheans.

And they didn't have when they fought the magog, strangely, I guess it will have to take place sometime before the magog invasion or else the CW will collapse from within by itself.

More examples of Imperial incompetents. And I thought the Russians had a Micky Mouse operation for losing a few suitcase nukes.

The Imperials never used it, the Empire wasn't there then, it was a bunch of rebels who found out what it really did.

Factions vary in size. A space station was considered a member (much to my surprise), as was a few individual planets. But the evidence pointed out by RV1 proves individual members can consist of more than one world.

But I see no reason why rommie should list factions when she was listing worlds, the evidence on the Empire atleast clearly separates this and provides both numbers.

[consequences]

Do we have any evidence as to the potential crash building rates of the Commonwealth? We know the empire can build the equivalent volume of a billion star destroyers worth of construction with little effort and without dedicated shipyard facilities from the second death star. We also know that star wars technology can produce ships that need incredibly small crews, from the droid control ships in TPM, and can avoid a great deal of the problems normally associated with a massive military mobilisation, like, say, crewing a billion star destroyers.
There is nothing stopping an Imperial scouting mission from dropping hypercom relay stations back along their path of travel, thus allowing near instant reports back to the emperor, an ability the Commonwealth lacks.
If the Empire has any sort of warning, then the Empire can start this sort of massive buildup nearly instantaneously across its entire domain. Meanwhile, the Commonwealth is going to spend at least a couple of months warning the galaxies which didn't make the initial contact.
Also, what exactly are the rules we are following in regards to known intelligence, do both sides start completely unaware, do they both have a basic understanding of each others capabilities, what?
In terms of fairness, the easiest way is to start each side of with control of 1 wormhole leading into the others space, that the other is unaware of the existence of.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Let me get this straight. They're in the middle of a very dense asteroid field. They're in constant danger from a catastropic collision. They need to communicate withe Vader's flagship. Now, instead of using another form of communication that keeps them out of danger, they use the holo-com that requires their shields to be dropped leaving them vulerable to attack. This is either complete BS or Imperial ISD's are morons.

If you'll actually bother to watch the movie you can see they had chosen a quite asteroid free portion of the belt compared to other sections.

Funny, it looked pretty crowded to me.

And explain why the burden of proof is on me?

It's not on me thats for sure, your the one who is saying he talked about ISD's you dolt, I say you can't prove that and that there 20 ships total, that is 15 other unknown ships, and that fighters would also count in, and in lieu of the ICs and all other evidence presented I have an iron-clad case.

You haven't proven crap. You offered no proof he was talking about the smaller support ships and fighters only.

1). The measurement in size that is relevant for a railgun is the lenght of barrel.

It was a huge planetary railgun big enough that it had it's own shield generator of the same strenght as Hoth.
lenght of the barrel? They have railguns on the AT-TE's that aren't long at all.

Too bad, because the velocity of a projectile is proportional to the square root of the lenght of the barrel.

2). Why are you making estimations? Wasn't the mass of the projectiles, their speed and rate of fire mentioned?

Only estimations we can make are low-end figures we can be sure are in the low-end, in order to appease the anti-warsies.

Based on what? I gave you the values and equations. All you give is your Warsie wet-dream. Put the numbers up where I can see them.

So, the galaxy gun can hit a planet in another galaxy 66 million light-years away minimum without any knowledge of where their targets are. Sure

Just move it through the wormhole.

What wormhole? You're only person I know on this thread that mentioned anything about a wormhole.

Are you saying Centerpoint station moved planets from one galaxy to the next?

Not that I know of, no reason it couldn't, the problems would be in accuratly getting the planets position, then again they could also move it.

And there's no reason why Darth Vader couldn't fire force lightening out of his ass or Yoda could crush the Death Star by thinking about it. Show some proof that Centerpoint Station has the range of millions of light-years.

That makes them about even in ship number.

Not when we count in the little ships like frigates and small cruisers.

Slower ships, lagging years behind the star destroyers.

Allow me to explain some basics to you, the time it took was a small fraction of a second, this is enough time to heat the asteroid so that it either violently explodes or is vaporized, dwell time.

It's funny how dwell time always last as long as it takes the visible portion of the turbolaser bolt to hit it.

Ugh
Blasters are plasma weapons.

Let's go to the official star wars website and see:

The basic blaster technology of intensifying a beam of light into a deadly bolt is scalable, and largely the same despite the differences in weapon types and sizes. The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles. A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.

My delusions can never be stronger than yours.

You've just proven yourself wrong.

The Empire capital ships that with a maximum speed of only 50,000,000 c covering a distance of 66 million light-years in three weeks,[/Q]

I see, this is where you publicly display your stupidity?

66 million ly in three weeks traveling at 50 million c, and you got the nerve to say I was displaying my stupidity? Go back to fourth grade and learn to divide.

And thats this evenings portion of "help I can't debate so I'll ignore the facts and throw feces that will only show what a weak case I have". See you tomorrow.

Mad because I showed everyone how the Emperor got old and senile in his twilight years? Tough. Don't get mad at me because the Empire has incompetent leaders.

[MagicHateBall]

Actually, that 3 week travel time was in the ballpark.
Using Wong's speed calcs from the Behind the Magic CD-ROM, that puts hyperdrive in the neighborhood of 50 million c.
If it is that fast, it would take approximately 7 weeks to travel 66 million light years.
Of course, that begs the question of why there haven't been more extragalactic expeditions...

[Renewed_Valour1]

Teddy bears, pretty much like the Magog from what I've seen of them.

The Ewoks have a Worldship that would make the Death Star look like a pebble? They can fling around blackholes as weapons? They can destroy an entire galaxy?

Wow I know Warsies have gotten pretty confident since the ICS came out but claiming Ewoks are impressive as the Magog now that takes it to new levels of idiocy…

No but you can expect a Star Destroyer coming there to investigate a new alien species with an unknown form of propulsion-

And it's going to find what…. It's not exactly like they can track a slipstream capable vessel.

No, they are connected by a wormhole and much much farther apart I say, so that argument is null and void, if you seriously think I am going to let you dictate a disgustingly pro-CW scenario like this you're insane.

Are you the thread starter? Do you see any mention of a wormhole mentioned? Therefore there is no wormhole so get over it and stop crying I dictate it when there is not even a mention of one existing in the thread.

Oh and you forget the fact that they already have the capability to traverse those distances, the outbound flight project? Does it say anything to you? It didn't take them much to modify the ship to traverse intra-galatic distances.

Yeah it says a lot to me. That a fully combat capable vessel isn't going to be able to make that trip. You might be able to do it if you strip the entire vessel down to just fuel and supplies. The Imperial Navy and their other military forces are still up the creek without a paddle.

Irrelevant because you're trying to dictate the situation to your advantage, I'm not going to follow on that leash, I say they are so far apart that the only way they can cross over is to use a wormhole.

You say? I don't see you as the thread starter for some odd reason. You're the one dictating terms in a thread that clearly doesn't say a wormhole exits. Distance is irrelevant to slipstream. Now get over it, grow up, and admit the Imperial Fleet is pathetically short legged and slow compared to even a Commonwealth Scout Vessel.

Of course if you want to admit the Empire needs you to create a Deus Ex Machina in the form of a wormhole to beat the Commonwealth then carry on with your ranting.

You have to prove the Vedrans have any godamn toys whatsoever at this time period.

The reason Tarn Vedra was cutoff from the slipstream is because the Vedrans tesseracted the ENTIRE solar system into a shadow dimension. Watch "The Fair Unknown" the Vedrans had the capability to tesseract an entire solar system out of existence at the time of the fall. As for why they didn't use it against the Magog; the Magog had it a hell of a lot longer time than the Vedrans. The SOA seems to be tesseracting in his natural state. It would be akin to the Vedrans tesseracting being a Sherman Tank while the Magog/Enigma tesseracting would be akin to a M1A2 Abrams. Their technology was just no match yet for that of Spirit of the Abyss. Of course compared to tesseracting the Empire is armed with stones so a couple Shermans would slaughter them.

So the Imps still get stomped by the tesseracted High Guard and can't find any of the Commonwealth because their worlds are tesseracted.

We'll use Centerpoint station and drag Tarn Vedra into hyperspace and leave it there, y'know the funny thing about hyperspace is that if the thing not dragged in there has a special energy shield covering it, it will be destroyed, buh bye.

The Empire never even managed to control the Centerpoint Station and were so stupid they never figured out what it was until it was too late. And they wouldn't even be able to find Tarn Vedra because it wouldn't be in the same dimension.

No I am not, I am saying it how it is, the CW had 1.5 million _worlds_ total, not 1.5 million _factions_, they had a couple of dozen factions or so in the Commonwealth, you KNOW this, they have clearly differentiated between factions and member worlds, so don't try and bullshit me with this anymore.

Well I guess I just have to break out the quotes
"Rose in the Ashes": Rommie
"Actually Counselor there were one million twenty two thousand three hundred and forty seven member worlds in the Systems Commonwealth"

Notice the key word "member". I all ready proved that the entire sphere of space under the control of the Sabra Jaguar joined as a single member world. At several other points during the series Hunt has referred to the Commonwealth as being made up of a millions of worlds. Please note the s on the end of million and please note that there is no mention of member. Now if you must insist I'll go pull out quotes concerning that.

{lapse into Radical Warsie Logic}
Oh the Empire only has one million member worlds. So let's get rid of all the other worlds because they aren't member worlds. Therefore the Commonwealth and the Empire are the same size and in fact the Empire is smaller because they only have a million. {End lapse into Radical Warsie Logic}

OW that hurt my head….

So? slipstream varies greatly. Hyperdrive doesn't and is therefore very good when it comes to strategy on a galactic level

That jump was an undeveloped sliproute the hardest type of jump a slippilot has to me. Beka performed it in a few minutes. Face it hyperdrive is just pathetically slow relative to slipstream and you're sounding as silly as people who claim warp is as fast as hyperdrive.

[consequences]

Nice to be ignored, guess this means the Commonwealth has no chance of matching the Empire's potential building rates.