Predator vs. Boba Fett

[Vympel]

Boba Fett's helmet (from original Visual Dictionary)

1: Swing down targeting rangefinder
2: Macrobinocular viewplate
3: [/b]Motion/Sound Sensor System

Clearly, the Predator's cloaking system will not make him immune to detection. That helmet is not a straight eye-piece.

Even without the heat-sig that the Pred will have, a SONAR or bog standard motion detector will help if it gives 180 degrees protection, 360 best case.[/quote]

From the AOTC Visual Dictionary: he has a Pineal Sensor on his helmet to look behind him.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Boba Fett's helmet (from original Visual Dictionary)

1: Swing down targeting rangefinder
2: Macrobinocular viewplate
3: [/b]Motion/Sound Sensor System

Clearly, the Predator's cloaking system will not make him immune to detection. That helmet is not a straight eye-piece.

Even without the heat-sig that the Pred will have, a SONAR or bog standard motion detector will help if it gives 180 degrees protection, 360 best case.

From the AOTC Visual Dictionary: he has a Pineal Sensor on his helmet to look behind him.[/quote]

Ah, just as good, I wish I had my DK Star Wars books and the technical guides with me now.

[Darth Servo]

Slightly off topic question. All the skulls in the Pred ship at the end of Predator 2, one is clearly one of the aliens from the 'Alien' movies. Are any of the others lifted from other sci-fi/monster flicks?

[Darth_Shinji]

Well, unfortantly I can't be like you Vympel and ingnore onscreen evidence (like the fact the danny did not kick the pred's ass straight up)

What onscreen evidence have I ignored? Maybe the slow-ass plasma bolts (observed twice- the first against the Jamaican, the second against Gary Busey)

Thats nice, change the subject.

Why you choose to ingnore me telling you that danny was on his knees and for intents beaten is beyound me. I guess you can't belive anyone can beat Fett, not even a guy that can throw people across a room one-armed. Prehaps when I find the dvd like I want to, I'll send you pictures of your Danny getting his ass handed to him. Alwell.

Oh really? What part of shooting out his shoulder cannon, blasting him with a shotgun, knocking him off a building, CUTTING OFF HIS ARM, watching the Predator run away like a little bitch, and then having Danny Glover gut him like a fish on his own home turf is not a straight up fight?! It doesn't matter if Danny Glover was 'on his knees', because the Predator was looking right fucking at him when Glover gutted his ass. [/quote]
Oh where to start. Lets see first Danny was running away when the pred chased after him and admittedly stuby into the shotgun shots wich only put him uncounses for serval secounds (something I want to see fett do without body armour). Then he threw Danny across the room, knocking him down and he was finished till the other guy hit the pred with liquid nitrogen (which annoyed the pred). After pred fininshed that guy off Danny ran away and hide on the roof. Then after a short game of cat and mouse Danny having nothing else to do charged and threw himself and the pred off the building, pred graps dannys leg and danny finds the disc after it was implaed in the concert. He then cut the preds arm off when the pred is totally imbolized. Then he lands on a pipe and goes threw a wall. Sugging that off, he preforms on the site medical aid, then rips threw the biulding going back to his ship PREHAPS FOR BETTER MEDICAL HELP! THE DUDE HAS SIX SHOTGUN HOLES IN HIM, AN ARM CUT OFF, AND JUST WENT THREW A WALL, AND YOU CALL THAT RUNNING AWAY INSTEAD OF GETTING MEDICAL ATTENTION? I WANT TO SEE FETT DO THOSE THINGS AND STAY AROUND LIKE AN IDOIT TO FIGHT. Then Pred fights danny, rips dannys stomach and proceeds to relise his victory for a second which danny takes advantage of. How you can see that as those going at it hth with no plot coming in the way is beyound me. And yes pred made many mistakes and fett mightbe able to take this one on. Though it would be the preds mistakes that give him the victory, not his skills. And other preds are wiser and would of killed danny in a secound.

On the matter of Preds cloaking. Pred 2 came on last night. And yes we see shots richcey off his shoulder pads, however before this he had drew a bead on the pred's midsection (which we could see in heat vision). Obviosy protection of somekind is involded in that claok in the second movie. Darth Wong has pointed out that bent gravity would kill people around the Pred, so since it has been stated as a fact that he does that maybe the.ve learned a way of harnessing it to act as protection. I'm hoping to find a script of pred 2 and see what it says.

You certainly won't find an idea like 'the Predator's bulletproof cloak' in the script.[/quote] Your opionion only. Not based on anything like say facts.

[Darth Wong]

Burden of proof is on you to show that this bulletproof cloak exists, not on us to show that it doesn't. Nothing is presumed to exist without evidence.

And if this were an intrinsic characteristic of the cloak, you would have to explain Predator 1, which you can't without cheesy evasions like "well, the Pred2 cloak was different".

And finally, the Predator's superior physical strength is worth precisely dick in a sniper-fight.

[SirNitram]

I love these excuses. An older predator wouldn't have made the mistake. He was running away to be treated. Fett should fight without armor(That's the gist I'm getting from the latest spittle-covered post, but I'm assuming it's not honestly meant).

Of course, if we ever do a straight up comparison, the Predator loses. Jango gets trampled by an animal the size of a minivan and suffers no injury. He fights an opponent with precognition and telekinesis to a standstill. He uses flight tactically and strategically. He displays superior firepower and accuracy than the Predator. Throw in the near-invincible Boba Fett from the comics to combat the claims of the Predator comics and the Slave I to handle any nonsense with the hunting ships, and this one's obvious.

[Durandal]

And? Short-range sniping, since you want to get prissy about it.

50 to 100 meters is infantry range, unless you'd like to say the soldiers fighting in trenches in World War I were sniping.

Where is the evidence for any of this?

None.

Concession accepted.

Just going by Common Sense. The first movie was the original scource of information, so is definitely Canon. But the Graphic Novels (I think the first AvP graphic novel came before part 2) are the most recent, and detailed. The rest should be obvious.

Oh that's interesting. Unfortunately, you have no evidence at all for your position, by your own admission. Why don't I just make up an arbitrary canon policy, too?

That is, of course, unless Fox and Dark Horse say otherwise. Remember, not everything sticks to the Star Wars model of Canon.

So, until Dark Horse and/or Fox show your claim to be incorrect, they are correct? I smell a "proof of a negative" fallacy ...

Hollywood action heroes are a copout.

Then would you prefer Plot Induced Stupidity/Weakness? Or perhaps intervention from the Script Gods? It's the same as the Sarlacc incedent, only with less Dumb Luck.

No, I would prefer incompetence in the case of the Predators, because that is the most accurate description of their losses in the films. Boba Fett was temporarily neutralized by dumb luck. The Predators were killed because of their incompetence. There's a world of difference.

So what you're saying is that while it's okay for you to depend on the Jetpack being there, it's wrong for the Predator to try to take it out?

It's wrong for you to claim that this has any sort of bearing on the fight, because such scenarios here do not include dumb luck. They include competence, and Boba Fett has consistently shown himself to be a competent bounty hunter in the EU and films. The Predators showed themselves to be disastrously incompetent, not killing their prey after numerous chances had been presented.

What I was stating was the difference between getting hit by a tree then blowing yourself up, or getting gutted by your own weapon the one time you drop your guard in your moment of triumph, and Plain Dumb Luck.

Yes, the first two are results of incompetence, and the last is simple luck.

They were due to luck in each case. Both times, the Hero happened to be next to the object that give him the win, and he would've been a trophy had he been ten feet to the left.

Complex cause fallacy. "The heroes got lucky that the villain was incompetent, so the villain's defeat wasn't due to incompetence." This is just priceless.

No, but when others are claiming he beat them up, or stood up to Windu, the record must be set straight.

Who claimed that Jango had defeated Mace Windu? He certainly stood up to Obi-Wan, and he also plugged a Jedi Council member.

Then comes the problem of doing it without the Predator's knowledge. If you track the Pred to it's ship, then you've been led there. Tossing a Thermal Detonator will only blast one room of the ship, likely not the one the Pred is in, and incite him to make a trip to the Armory.

Thermal detonators bring down skyscrapers. See Shadows of the Empire.

[Durandal]

Complex cause fallacy. "The heroes got lucky that the villain was incompetent, so the villain's defeat wasn't due to incompetence." This is just priceless.

This was more like a complex/false/insignficant cause fallacy. He denies the Predator's incompetence, saying that it was more due to dumb luck than incompetence, because the heroes got lucky that the Predator was incompetent.

[Hotfoot]

Technically, sniping can mean shooting from concealment, not simply long-range sniping. Problem is, short-range sniping doesn't work terribly well in real-life applications, so long-range sniping is the most common application.

But since it has been established that Predator's cloak wouldn't hide him from Fett, short-range sniping is going to be impossible.

[beyond hope]

I'm assuming it's obvious from my Avatar where my sympathies lie. Whoever wins, this would *NOT* want to be a battle I was anywhere near.

We usually assume that both parties know each other's capabilities in a match-up like this, correct? If that is the case, why is the Predator going to engage Boba Fett on nice, open ground where the advantages of both range and mobility are in Boba's favor? If I were the Predator and I knew Boba Fett's capabilities, I'd stalk him until he was in some sort of enclosed area surrounded by other people who would serve as camoflage against the motion sensor in his helmet. The first warning Boba would have of an attack would be a spear rammed through his back or the disc weapon slicing him in half at the waist. Corridors and hallways present all kinds of opportunities for an ambush at close range: think about how ubiquitous they are in an urban environment. It also depends on who's hunting who: if Boba Fett is after the Pred, its best bet is to stay in the lower levels where his jetpack is less useful and the ranges are close. Note also that even if the shoulder cannon and various melee weapons can't penetrate his armor, Boba Fett's armor does not provide 100% coverage. Boba's arms are exposed from the bottom of the shoulder to the bottom of the elbow, his waist is exposed, his neck is exposed, and his legs are almost unarmored save for the knees. The shoulder cannon clearly has enough power to punch a fist-sized hole though a man's chest and amputate another man's arm in the original movie, and the bolt keeps traveling after hitting both locations. A hit on Boba in any unarmored spot would give the same result. Assuming the Pred did get a lock, we see in the second film that the shoulder cannon will continue to track a target even when the target is behind the Pred: it can dodge and manuever while firing.

Incidently, the novelization of Predator 2 states that the Predator was on his way back to the ship after having his arm severed so he could have it regrown and continue the hunt. I don't know what that counts for in terms of "canon" but I thought it deserved mention.

[Durandal]

I'm assuming it's obvious from my Avatar where my sympathies lie. Whoever wins, this would *NOT* want to be a battle I was anywhere near.

We usually assume that both parties know each other's capabilities in a match-up like this, correct?

No, we assume that for large fleet engagements. Right now, we're simply assuming what would probably happen. The Predator would probably go to Coruscant to seek out prey, since that's what his race seems to do. He just happens to run across Boba Fett.

If that is the case, why is the Predator going to engage Boba Fett on nice, open ground where the advantages of both range and mobility are in Boba's favor?

Because Boba Fett controls where the battle takes place. He has superior mobility and range. Furthermore, the Predator will begin by hunting him.

If I were the Predator and I knew Boba Fett's capabilities, I'd stalk him until he was in some sort of enclosed area surrounded by other people who would serve as camoflage against the motion sensor in his helmet.

There's no reason to assume that the Predator has any clue about Fett's capabilities, just as there is no reason to assume that Fett has any idea of the Predator's capabilities. They don't receive a dossier on people before they go out hunting; they just go out and hunt

The first warning Boba would have of an attack would be a spear rammed through his back or the disc weapon slicing him in half at the waist.

This is highly unlikely, given that Fett has 360 degree vision and motion sensors through his helmet. If those fail, he's wearing armor that can withstand lightsaber strikes and being trampled by a creature the size of a rhino without so much as a scratch. The Predator's spear and disc weapon would be utterly useless.

Corridors and hallways present all kinds of opportunities for an ambush at close range: think about how ubiquitous they are in an urban environment. It also depends on who's hunting who: if Boba Fett is after the Pred, its best bet is to stay in the lower levels where his jetpack is less useful and the ranges are close. Note also that even if the shoulder cannon and various melee weapons can't penetrate his armor, Boba Fett's armor does not provide 100% coverage.

And the Predator has almost no armor to speak of. Fett could literally roast him with his flamethrower or leash his ass and take him for a jetpack ride. I've been over all this before. Please read the thread.

Boba's arms are exposed from the bottom of the shoulder to the bottom of the elbow, his waist is exposed, his neck is exposed, and his legs are almost unarmored save for the knees. The shoulder cannon clearly has enough power to punch a fist-sized hole though a man's chest and amputate another man's arm in the original movie, and the bolt keeps traveling after hitting both locations. A hit on Boba in any unarmored spot would give the same result. Assuming the Pred did get a lock, we see in the second film that the shoulder cannon will continue to track a target even when the target is behind the Pred: it can dodge and manuever while firing.

The shoulder cannon has a limited turn radius, and it may be able to turn fast enough to track a man running, but all Fett has to do is shoot off in a random direction with his jetpack. Also, the Predator's shoulder cannon gives its locks away visually with three red dots that tend to stay on you for upwards of 5 seconds before firing.

Incidently, the novelization of Predator 2 states that the Predator was on his way back to the ship after having his arm severed so he could have it regrown and continue the hunt. I don't know what that counts for in terms of "canon" but I thought it deserved mention.

The novels would probably count, but in the absence of some sort of official policy on the graphic novels or comics, that's about all.

[Lord Pounder]

My take on it:

The Pred will win. Mainly because I despise Fett fan-bois-ism.

But, lets be reasonable here. Fett undoubtedly does have the superior fire-power, but lets also remember that Predators in the movies and in the comics have been mainly equipped for hunting humans, who, at the best of times aren't great prey. As such they could well be under-equipped and we do know from the history of Predator literature that they have some truly funky tech to back them up...

<snip>

I'm gonna have to stop you there. I must point that in the Predator movies Men are considered the ultimate Prey and Hunters of them get all the toys. This is stated in the 1st AVP book when broken tooth is outraged that his trainee Predators are attacking a human camp.

[Darth Wong]

If I were the Predator and I knew Boba Fett's capabilities, I'd stalk him until he was in some sort of enclosed area surrounded by other people who would serve as camoflage against the motion sensor in his helmet.

Solution presumes total element of surprise on one party. That's unreasonable. The Predator's ability to locate Fett and begin stalking him without detection (as opposed to the other way around) has not been established. And given Fett's familiarity with the terrain of Coruscant and the huge importance of flight capabilities in Coruscant's multi-km tall cityscape, this is simply no contest. Fett bags him from 2km up, down through the top of his head.

[SAMAS]

If that is the case, why is the Predator going to engage Boba Fett on nice, open ground where the advantages of both range and mobility are in Boba's favor?

Because Boba Fett controls where the battle takes place. He has superior mobility and range. Furthermore, the Predator will begin by hunting him.

If I were the Predator and I knew Boba Fett's capabilities, I'd stalk him until he was in some sort of enclosed area surrounded by other people who would serve as camoflage against the motion sensor in his helmet.

There's no reason to assume that the Predator has any clue about Fett's capabilities, just as there is no reason to assume that Fett has any idea of the Predator's capabilities. They don't receive a dossier on people before they go out hunting; they just go out and hunt

Then there is no control of where or when. The Predator is not going to be stupid enough to move out into the open unless absolutely necessary, and if Fett goes after him, he's going to have to get into a more crowded area.

The first warning Boba would have of an attack would be a spear rammed through his back or the disc weapon slicing him in half at the waist.

This is highly unlikely, given that Fett has 360 degree vision and motion sensors through his helmet. If those fail, he's wearing armor that can withstand lightsaber strikes and being trampled by a creature the size of a rhino without so much as a scratch. The Predator's spear and disc weapon would be utterly useless.

Thermal and Impact damage is different from the Cutting and Piercing damage of the Combi Stick and Smart Disk. Remember, the Reek also hit Windu before it went after Jango.

Corridors and hallways present all kinds of opportunities for an ambush at close range: think about how ubiquitous they are in an urban environment. It also depends on who's hunting who: if Boba Fett is after the Pred, its best bet is to stay in the lower levels where his jetpack is less useful and the ranges are close. Note also that even if the shoulder cannon and various melee weapons can't penetrate his armor, Boba Fett's armor does not provide 100% coverage.

And the Predator has almost no armor to speak of. Fett could literally roast him with his flamethrower or leash his ass and take him for a jetpack ride. I've been over all this before. Please read the thread.

Oh yeah, I forgot those.

Flamethower: A little too slow to do more than piss the Predator off. In addition, if you're close enough to use it, you're close enough for the Predator to really fuck your day up.

Grapple Line: The Predator carries how many blades? Not to mention that idea failed miserably the last time it was used. And again, the problem of close combat with the Predator means that he's close enough to hurt you, too.

Boba's arms are exposed from the bottom of the shoulder to the bottom of the elbow, his waist is exposed, his neck is exposed, and his legs are almost unarmored save for the knees. The shoulder cannon clearly has enough power to punch a fist-sized hole though a man's chest and amputate another man's arm in the original movie, and the bolt keeps traveling after hitting both locations. A hit on Boba in any unarmored spot would give the same result. Assuming the Pred did get a lock, we see in the second film that the shoulder cannon will continue to track a target even when the target is behind the Pred: it can dodge and manuever while firing.

The shoulder cannon has a limited turn radius, and it may be able to turn fast enough to track a man running, but all Fett has to do is shoot off in a random direction with his jetpack. Also, the Predator's shoulder cannon gives its locks away visually with three red dots that tend to stay on you for upwards of 5 seconds before firing.

Wasn't there a scene in the first movie(I think) where the Predator fired several shots at Arnie to force him to scatter?

[Darth Wong]

Then there is no control of where or when. The Predator is not going to be stupid enough to move out into the open unless absolutely necessary, and if Fett goes after him, he's going to have to get into a more crowded area.

Nonsense. Fett can stay high and look down for him.

The first warning Boba would have of an attack would be a spear rammed through his back or the disc weapon slicing him in half at the waist.

This is idiotic. You have two combatants, one of whom can fly and has a range advantage. If combatant #1 sees #2 first, he won't be close enough to do anything to him and he lacks the speed and mobility to track him as he moves through the city. If combatant #2 sees #1 first, #1 is dead. This is a grotesquely one-sided scenario that you're trying to imbalance by assuming #2 won't use his superior mobility and will get seen first.

Thermal and Impact damage is different from the Cutting and Piercing damage of the Combi Stick and Smart Disk. Remember, the Reek also hit Windu before it went after Jango.

Wrong. The Reek almost hit Windu, but he turned him away with his lightsabre, chopping off one tusk. He lost his grip on the lightsabre, but he never took a body hit from the Reek. Please watch the movie before inventing one in your head.

Grapple Line: The Predator carries how many blades? Not to mention that idea failed miserably the last time it was used. And again, the problem of close combat with the Predator means that he's close enough to hurt you, too.

Which is why Boba will simply shoot him from a km up.

Wasn't there a scene in the first movie(I think) where the Predator fired several shots at Arnie to force him to scatter?

From a range of less than 50 metres. Oooooh.

[DocHorror]

This isn't even funny...

Boba Fett can fly, has a huge range of gadet & advanced tracking systems...

The Predator has crap dreds & gets beaten by Mel Gibsons bum buddy...

But seriously...Fett can pop the Predator from a greater distance & can probably see through (no pun intended) the preds cloak...

The predator has a limited visual range (yes I know in P2 it changes, but it still looked blood useless) & on a world like Courusant would be quite fucked by his lack of mobility...

[Admiral Valdemar]

How long does that rocket pack last for? We've only really seen it in mini-skirmishes, I'm curious what fuels it.

[Slartibartfast]

So what you're saying is that while it's okay for you to depend on the Jetpack being there, it's wrong for the Predator to try to take it out?

What I was stating was the difference between getting hit by a tree then blowing yourself up, or getting gutted by your own weapon the one time you drop your guard in your moment of triumph, and Plain Dumb Luck.

Take it out != Turn it on by accident while it's pointed at a deadly place.

[Slartibartfast]

Arnold lured the Predator to the traps and then quickly improvised to bag the Predator. Fine. Danny Glover kicked the Predator's ass, straight up.

Danny > Predator > Arnold

[Durandal]

Then there is no control of where or when. The Predator is not going to be stupid enough to move out into the open unless absolutely necessary, and if Fett goes after him, he's going to have to get into a more crowded area.

What's so stupid about going out in the open? As others have pointed out, the Predator doesn't look all that exotic on a world like Coruscant. Maybe he was walking through a bar and flung a spitball at Fett's helmet and they began fighting. There, does that make you happy?

Thermal and Impact damage is different from the Cutting and Piercing damage of the Combi Stick and Smart Disk. Remember, the Reek also hit Windu before it went after Jango.

The Reek never hit Windu. Even if it did, you're forgetting that Windu is a Jedi Master, and that Jedi can survive very long falls (i.e. lots of physical force). I can't believe you're seriously contending that if the Reek hit Windu and he survived, it must not be as massive as everyone being thrown aside by it would suggest.

Oh yeah, I forgot those.

Flamethower: A little too slow to do more than piss the Predator off. In addition, if you're close enough to use it, you're close enough for the Predator to really fuck your day up.

What's he going to do? Swipe at Fett's helmet with his knives in vain while he's being cooked alive? This is getting ridiculous. When one person has a flamethrower and the other has some knives in a fight, the person with the flamethrower is going to win.

Grapple Line: The Predator carries how many blades? Not to mention that idea failed miserably the last time it was used. And again, the problem of close combat with the Predator means that he's close enough to hurt you, too.

How did it fail miserably? Fett dragged Obi-Wan around, and Obi-Wan just happened to be resourceful enough to bring Fett down. What if Fett simply decides to fly straight up with the Predator and just drop him? As for the Predator cutting the line, you obviously didn't read my calculations on how strong it is. He'd probably be able to saw through it eventually, but then what? Drop a few hundred meters to his death?

Wasn't there a scene in the first movie(I think) where the Predator fired several shots at Arnie to force him to scatter?

Yes, and that was without locking on, as I recall. The Predator was pissed and just started firing at random shit.

[Slartibartfast]

Oh where to start. Lets see first Danny was running away when the pred chased after him and admittedly stuby into the shotgun shots wich only put him uncounses for serval secounds (something I want to see fett do without body armour). Then he threw Danny across the room, knocking him down and he was finished till the other guy hit the pred with liquid nitrogen (which annoyed the pred). After pred fininshed that guy off Danny ran away and hide on the roof. Then after a short game of cat and mouse Danny having nothing else to do charged and threw himself and the pred off the building, pred graps dannys leg and danny finds the disc after it was implaed in the concert. He then cut the preds arm off when the pred is totally imbolized. Then he lands on a pipe and goes threw a wall. Sugging that off, he preforms on the site medical aid, then rips threw the biulding going back to his ship PREHAPS FOR BETTER MEDICAL HELP! THE DUDE HAS SIX SHOTGUN HOLES IN HIM, AN ARM CUT OFF, AND JUST WENT THREW A WALL, AND YOU CALL THAT RUNNING AWAY INSTEAD OF GETTING MEDICAL ATTENTION? I WANT TO SEE FETT DO THOSE THINGS AND STAY AROUND LIKE AN IDOIT TO FIGHT. Then Pred fights danny, rips dannys stomach and proceeds to relise his victory for a second which danny takes advantage of. How you can see that as those going at it hth with no plot coming in the way is beyound me. And yes pred made many mistakes and fett mightbe able to take this one on. Though it would be the preds mistakes that give him the victory, not his skills. And other preds are wiser and would of killed danny in a secound.

So, in other words, Danny kicked the pred's ass so bad that he was running and screaming "medic!" while trying to lick his wounds. He even has time to open a first aid kit and perform surgery on himself, because he was so badly injured by Mel Gibson's sidekick. Wow, Danny's so baddass that he survived having his stomach ripped by the predator!

[Slartibartfast]

You certainly won't find an idea like 'the Predator's bulletproof cloak' in the script.

Your opionion only. Not based on anything like say facts.

In the first movie, when the bald black guy spots the pred he fires at him with the gatling and (missing 99% of the shots) injures him, making him bleed all over the place. The predator was cloaked at that time, so that proves that the cloak is not bulletproof.

Furthemore, there's no canon policy that says anywhere that the games aren't part of the Predator continuity, and in the games the cloak isn't bulletproof either.

[Slartibartfast]

Thermal and Impact damage is different from the Cutting and Piercing damage of the Combi Stick and Smart Disk. Remember, the Reek also hit Windu before it went after Jango.

You simply assume that the Combi or Disc WILL penetrate armor like it wasn't even there, like "piercing" or "cutting" was some kind of magic property that allows a weapon to ignore any protective materials.

And the Predator has almost no armor to speak of. Fett could literally roast him with his flamethrower or leash his ass and take him for a jetpack ride. I've been over all this before. Please read the thread.

Oh yeah, I forgot those.

Flamethower: A little too slow to do more than piss the Predator off. In addition, if you're close enough to use it, you're close enough for the Predator to really fuck your day up.

Sure, the flamer is useless if you make a Jedi jump a la Windu to get out of reach, but I didn't see Pred dodging even a simple liquid nitrogen hose. In other words, in terms of speed, Flamethrower > Predator.

Wasn't there a scene in the first movie(I think) where the Predator fired several shots at Arnie to force him to scatter?

He fired wildly, because he panicked at the fact that he couldn't even spot Arnold while being hit by explosive arrows. He didn't fire *at* Arnie.

[Darth_Shinji]

Burden of proof is on you to show that this bulletproof cloak exists, not on us to show that it doesn't. Nothing is presumed to exist without evidence.

Proof of which I've provided and rebuttal objections too. You forgot I provided evedence to you? It was originaly in a reply to you.

And if this were an intrinsic characteristic of the cloak, you would have to explain Predator 1, which you can't without cheesy evasions like "well, the Pred2 cloak was different".

And why not? However, its obvios that the pred in pred 2 has more tech, often its been explained that Pred 2 was younger and more inexperainced then pred 2 and used more tech to make up for it. Why couldn't it be apart of the deal?

And finally, the Predator's superior physical strength is worth precisely dick in a sniper-fight.

True, but this is just more than a sniper fight, in reality this could go either way depending on the Pred in question. While I'll admit that Fett seems to have the tech advanate on the movie preds, movie preds are better figters. Fett might win most of the time but can you honestly say he could beat any pred in the entire race? Even EU fett? And by the way I have a comic of EU fett getting his ass handed to him, so he isn't always as badass as you think. How much of EU looks like actaully ability and how much is character sheild and plot driven stuff? Stuff that is not addmissable in this discution.

[SirNitram]

We'll ignore Fett's Character Shield(rated just below Ripped Shirt Kirk) when you admit the Pred was straight up beaten by 20th century humans.