How long could Mass Effect last against the Federation?

[Stargazer]

With the Federation only committing 1/10 of their forces at a time as per the OP, I don't think the Federation can bring the whole Mass Effect galaxy to defeat. In direct space combat, the Federation doesn't have a tremendous firepower advantage, and 1/10 of Federation forces should actually be quite outnumbered by the Council fleets. The Feds have the advantage of FTL scanning and combat, but mass relays limit that advantage. I can see the situation as laid out by the OP coming a stalemate.

What time period this supposed to be, anyways? Are we talking 24th century or 23rd century?

[Junghalli]

-Federation doesn't want to exterminate ME people (would be hard to justify given their background)

So is randomly invading somebody else. The OP has them acting pretty out of character already.

With this I can bypass the whole tricky ship vs ship comparisons that don't give anything really sure and say that two things can happen:

-ME fleet pwns federation's (my favourite, I highly doubt feds will be able to employ decent tactics) and case closed.
-Feds win space war but then find themselves pwned by ME's childrens with slings when try to land ground troops to actually seize control the planets. So they cannot really conquer a damn thing and either retreat immediately or keep suffering casualities until they decide to retreat.

Both situations seem to give Feds not winning.

3) The Federation destroys critical infrastructure with (relative) precision strikes then offers humanitarian aid and relatively generous surrender terms, ME guys decide that beats starving and living in Third World conditions?

[Stargazer]

How would the Feds destroy critical infrastructure? Both those infrastructure locations and the mass relays used to get to them will likely be defended.

[Junghalli]

How would the Feds destroy critical infrastructure? Both those infrastructure locations and the mass relays used to get to them will likely be defended.

He was talking about a scenario where the Feds win in space, and suggesting they couldn't really win anyway because they wouldn't be able to take ME on the ground. I pointed out that if you have space supremacy there are possible ways to win besides total extermination or direct invasion.

[Star Wars 888]

3) The Federation destroys critical infrastructure with (relative) precision strikes then offers humanitarian aid and relatively generous surrender terms, ME guys decide that beats starving and living in Third World conditions?

A Federation fleet doing that would still have to sustain themselves. Landing would cause them to come into conflict with the far superior and larger Mass Effect ground forces. Staying in orbit will cause them to run out of supplies.

If they decide to act super out of character and perform a mass bombing campaign of a planet, then they'd still run out of supplies and die.

[Junghalli]

A Federation fleet doing that would still have to sustain themselves. Landing would cause them to come into conflict with the far superior and larger Mass Effect ground forces. Staying in orbit will cause them to run out of supplies.

If they can reach X place from Federation space with a warship why couldn't they reach it with a resupply ship?

[Star Wars 888]

If they can reach X place from Federation space with a warship why couldn't they reach it with a resupply ship?

That resupply ship would have to defend itself, and who's to say that it would reach the planet in any reasonable amount of time? A Mass Effect fleet could arrive much faster due to mass relays, unless if the Federation also figures out how to use them.

[Junghalli]

That resupply ship would have to defend itself, and who's to say that it would reach the planet in any reasonable amount of time? A Mass Effect fleet could arrive much faster due to mass relays, unless if the Federation also figures out how to use them.

We were talking about a scenario where the Federation has already won in space, which would logically mean they've already more-or-less neutralized the opposing fleets. The point is that there's no reason to think that having better ground forces would by itself be enough to save ME if they lose in space.

[Stark]

How would ME intercept an FTL ship anyway? They just borrow existing FTL; a ship in deep space is totally invulnerable to ME ships, even if they could find it.

[Star Wars 888]

That resupply ship would have to defend itself, and who's to say that it would reach the planet in any reasonable amount of time? A Mass Effect fleet could arrive much faster due to mass relays, unless if the Federation also figures out how to use them.

We were talking about a scenario where the Federation has already won in space, which would logically mean they've already more-or-less neutralized the opposing fleets. The point is that there's no reason to think that having better ground forces would by itself be enough to save ME if they lose in space.

In that case, it would be sort of like a stand off; Mass Effect wouldn't be able to repel the Federation fleets and the Federation fleets couldn't take a well defended Mass Effect planet.

[keen320]

Judging by Voyager, Federation ships appear to be more than capable of sustaining themselves for long periods of time with few resources. Their main concerns are energy (fuel? I'm not sure how the federation makes antimatter) and major parts. As long as they have those, their replicators should ensure they won't run out of consumables for the foreseeable future.

If they decide to act super out of character and perform a mass bombing campaign of a planet, then they'd still run out of supplies and die.

Why would this be the case? Bombing the planet would only deplete their munitions. They could always leave it as a last resort, too.

[Stark]

In that case, it would be sort of like a stand off; Mass Effect wouldn't be able to repel the Federation fleets and the Federation fleets couldn't take a well defended Mass Effect planet.

His original point is that this is simply not the case, and it still stands. You don't have to invade to force them to surrender; control of space would at the very least destroy the economies of these worlds and probably lead to all kinds of famine and disruption. If they can also cut communications, surrender woudl follow quickly.

[keen320]

How would ME intercept an FTL ship anyway? They just borrow existing FTL; a ship in deep space is totally invulnerable to ME ships, even if they could find it.

ME ships do have an FTL drive that works separate from mass relays (though based on similar tech). It's also fairly slow:

With a mass effect drive, roughly a dozen light-years can be traversed in the course of a day's cruise.

I don't know how fast federation ships go, but I'm pretty sure even they go faster than that!
There is also the problem for ME ships that without FTL sensors it would be impossible to find federation ships if they warped out to deep space.

[Star Wars 888]

Actually, that would put the Mass Effect FTL drives at about 4380 C, which is faster than the Enterprise's warp drive.

With mass relays, Mass Effect has a huge speed advantage over the Federation.

[Stofsk]

Actually, that would put the Mass Effect FTL drives at about 4380 C, which is faster than the Enterprise's warp drive.

Which Enterprise? The original can cover a 1000 light years in under 12 hours at better-than warp 8. 'That Which Survives'

Of course, this isn't consistent with TNG, DS9 and especially Voyager.

[Batman]

Actually it is, or more accurately, Warp speeds are inconsistent as hell as it is. TNG high end Warp speeds have always been in the 10,000c and up range, and the infamous 1,000c figure for VOY is for a 70 year trip where they very possibly figured in pit stops and the like.

[Omeganian]

Actually, that would put the Mass Effect FTL drives at about 4380 C, which is faster than the Enterprise's warp drive..

Plus, I think it was a passenger ship. Warships might be slightly faster.

[adam_grif]

12 ly/day is the figure given but they don't specify what that is for. We do know that the top speed is governed by how powerful the ME core is, however, so the SR1/2 should be far faster than average. Whether 12 ly/day is average or exceptional is unknown, however.

[GrandAdmiralSeerdon]

Given the incredible amount resources the were used in building both the SR1 and SR2, I think it would be safe to assume that their FTL speeds would be faster than average, especially since they have the largest mass effect cores for ships their size.

[Omeganian]

Whether 12 ly/day is average or exceptional is unknown, however.

We're talking about a person casually stating that she regularily took a liner with that speed. It can hardly be assumed to be something exceptional.

[adam_grif]

Whether 12 ly/day is average or exceptional is unknown, however.

We're talking about a person casually stating that she regularily took a liner with that speed. It can hardly be assumed to be something exceptional.

What? Is that from a novel or something? I had heard from other people that the novels lowball the FTL speeds enormously, <1000 c. Haven't read them though.

[Omeganian]

Whether 12 ly/day is average or exceptional is unknown, however.

We're talking about a person casually stating that she regularily took a liner with that speed. It can hardly be assumed to be something exceptional.

What? Is that from a novel or something? I had heard from other people that the novels lowball the FTL speeds enormously, <1000 c. Haven't read them though.

[Stark]

Holy shit dude can you edit out the lifeless poser model if you're going to post stuff like that. Ugh.

And the quote a) doesn't tell you anything about the infrastructure required and b) isn't relevant militarily, because the xyz system fleet will take decades to reach the abc system without relays. It comes right back to the point that if the Fed are superior in space they can easily conquer whatever planets are in range.

Given the ME forces' massive stupidity, this really shouldn't be surprising.

[Omeganian]

the quote a) doesn't tell you anything about the infrastructure required

She only says she took an emergency leave. No mention of her getting any special vessel. We can assume one thing - such travel is routine in the ME universe.

isn't relevant militarily, because the xyz system fleet will take decades to reach the abc system without relays.

Relays transit instantly, regardless of distance. Since distance was mentioned, and Ashley didn't say the system was so-and-so relay jumps away, we should presume the ship was going a dozen LY a day under its own FTL drive.

It comes right back to the point that if the Fed are superior in space they can easily conquer whatever planets are in range.

In ME2, two recruits were told that every shot of a dreadnought must hit the target, lest it hits something else, say, a civilian. That's from thousands of kilometers away. Meaning that the targeting systems could ensure a hit from such distance. Star Trek ships miss from far less.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tac ... uver1.html

I think space superiority will be problematic. Especially considering how easily Fed ships are destroyed by kinetic impacts.

[Stark]

Infrastructure doesn't mean 'special vessel'. Being 'routine' doesn't answer what level of support is required, either.

And no shit, idiot. ME systems are spread out over the entire galaxy, so once someone camps the relays or destroys them, the fleets from one system will take forever to reach another system.

I've played ME and ME space accuracy and tactics are so stupid Sovereign literally drove through a fleet too stupid to camp the node. Let's not talk about who is worse.