Andromeda Systems Commonwealth vs Galactic Empire

[Renewed_Valour1]

A quick comment is that we don't know what the potential industrial base of the Commonwealth was. It's never really been discussed during the entire show but they have some interesting potential considering their considerable power in wielding nanotech. Roughly speaking they managed to go to enough of a wartime footing to battle off the Magog to a standstill within weeks of Bradenburg Tor. This was with the High Guard of that time being a largely ceremonial force and lacking much combat experience. Other than a few minor skirmishes with the Pyrians. Plus they were facing perhaps hundreds of years of neglect with the threat of potential disbandment facing them.

The Magog themselves had enough available resources to build the Worldship that as I said earlier makes the Death Star II look like an Imperial pebble in comparison. Yet in that short time they managed to launch the new flights of the Glorious Heritage Cruiser that the Andromeda, Million Voices, and Renewed Valour belonged to and take the DSX from a concept to a new class of vessel. This without ever going to anything near a warfooting or ever considering the Magog attacks a real war.

[Renewed_Valour1]

We also know that star wars technology can produce ships that need incredibly small crews, from the droid control ships in TPM, and can avoid a great deal of the problems normally associated with a massive military mobilisation, like, say, crewing a billion star destroyers. .

Something the Commonwealth can also do and perhaps even better. A Glorious Heritage Cruiser and DSX are nearly the size of a Star Destroyer with a fraction of the crew and ability to operate with only a few people.

an ability the Commonwealth lacks. .

Of course the Courier Network traveling at the speed of slipstream on well developed routes in numbers could probably disperse messages through the entire Commonwealth quickly.

Meanwhile, the Commonwealth is going to spend at least a couple of months warning the galaxies which didn't make the initial contact.

Days at the most and I doubt it would even take that long for the warning to be carried via the CCN and High Guard Couriers. Actually the threat of the Empire might be enough to get the Commonwealth to convince the Pyrians to mobilize on a war footing against the Empire. The Pyrians inhabit largely the same area of space so a series of potential attacks on the Commonwealth wouldn't be very good for their own business.

[Typhonis 1]

Here is a very important question .How will the Commonwealth which hasnt fought a war in a thousand years, according to Rommie herself ,do agaiunst the GE which has been fighting continuously for avout 20 some plus years?

[Crossover_Maniac]

Actually, that 3 week travel time was in the ballpark.
Using Wong's speed calcs from the Behind the Magic CD-ROM, that puts hyperdrive in the neighborhood of 50 million c.
If it is that fast, it would take approximately 7 weeks to travel 66 million light years.
Of course, that begs the question of why there haven't been more extragalactic expeditions...

Proof positive that the educational system has gone down the toilet. 50 million c means 50,000,000 times the speed of light. If it takes light 66,000,000 years to cross the distance between the CW and Galactic Empire (minimum, the distance between both maybe more distant), then it will take an Imperial vessel,

66,000,000/50,000,000= 1.32 years to reach CW space. However, slipstream drives can clear the distance between adjacent galaxies within minutes.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Here is a very important question .How will the Commonwealth which hasnt fought a war in a thousand years, according to Rommie herself ,do agaiunst the GE which has been fighting continuously for avout 20 some plus years?

Desert Storm:

The United States hadn't fought a "real" war since World War II and Iraq had been fighting Iran for years thus having battle hardened troops. Of course we know how the war turned out and it just wasn't the US's technological advantage that won Desert Storm. Training is a big factor that often makes the difference between winning and losing. From "Under the Night" we know the High Guard did run drills regularly and took them very seriously.

We also have a strange definition of "real war" on the part of Rommie. I all most think she was referring to large scale declared wars or something. The Magog Invasion was surely a large scale combat zone and had the Commonwealth very concerned. I would be to if an enemy who destroys galaxies was coming after mine and doing so with a ship as large as a star. We also know that the High Guard fought the Pyrians sometime during the time period that the Glorious Heritage Cruisers were in service.

[His Divine Shadow]

Funny, it looked pretty crowded to me

Funny, there was only one observed asteroid there compared to the earlier scenes.

You haven't proven crap. You offered no proof he was talking about the smaller support ships and fighters only

And you haven't proven crap either, but mine is more likely, and logical, because:
1. There where 20 ships there and fighters, some probably with comparable shields like the falcon, wich are much more vulnerable
2. ISD's have shrugged off much worse.

Too bad, because the velocity of a projectile is proportional to the square root of the lenght of the barrel.

Too bad that they can make effective railguns with short barrels already.

Based on what? I gave you the values and equations. All you give is your Warsie wet-dream. Put the numbers up where I can see them.

All you give is bullshit, those are low-number figures, if you want realistic figures we use much bigger figures, WTF do you expect from TT ranged shields and a big frickin railgun.
But hey it's not enough when we give SW disadvantages even...

What wormhole? You're only person I know on this thread that mentioned anything about a wormhole.

And noones mentioned the CW being close enough to go to the SW galaxy by itself either.
A wormhole to one galaxy will still leave the empire without the problem of reaching the other galaxies, while your notion will give all the advantages to the CW, but if thats how weak your argument is I am probably wasting my time on this debate...

And there's no reason why Darth Vader couldn't fire force lightening out of his ass or Yoda could crush the Death Star by thinking about it. Show some proof that Centerpoint Station has the range of millions of light-years.

There is no range limitation in hyperspace, since it fires a repulsor beam through it, wich BTW does not stop due to fuel shortage or anything like it.

Slower ships, lagging years behind the star destroyers.

So? They'll be defending.
And with the empires incredible industry they can easily go on a wartime footing.

It's funny how dwell time always last as long as it takes the visible portion of the turbolaser bolt to hit it.

It's funny how you refuse to accept the undeinable truth, I have made all the rationalizations required to make all evidence fit, I win by default, your trying to exclude evidence so you loose by default.

Let's go to the official star wars website and see: *snip*

Let me just prove you wrong with a higher couple of higher sources:

Pg. 39: Clone troopers are issued plasma guns of two types. Like all standard blaster weapons, these guns create a charged plasma bolt using a small amount of Tibanna gas.

(ref: Attack of the Clones: The Visual Dictionary)

Pg. 39: Power-charge magazines supply the gun with energy to hyper-ionize the gas into charged plasma in an igniter chamber. The resulting bolt is accelerated out of the gun electromagnetically.

(ref: Attack of the Clones: The Visual Dictionary)

Pg. 7: Common blaster weapons use high-energy gas for ammunition, activated by a power cell and converted into plasma. The plasma is released from a magnetic bottle effect to fire through collimating componets as a coherent energy bolt.

(ref: Star Wars The Visual Dictionary)

66 million ly in three weeks traveling at 50 million c, and you got the nerve to say I was displaying my stupidity? Go back to fourth grade and learn to divide.

Oh gee I'm so hurt.

Mad because I showed everyone how the Emperor got old and senile in his twilight years? Tough. Don't get mad at me because the Empire has incompetent leaders.

Still incapable of mounting any arguments eh?
Well I guess you need the Empire to be unable to mount any real counter attacks and to have the CW know everything in advance and to have tesseracting, all this to beat a senile old man as you put it... :rolls:

[His Divine Shadow]

The Ewoks have a Worldship that would make the Death Star look like a pebble? They can fling around blackholes as weapons? They can destroy an entire galaxy?

Wow I know Warsies have gotten pretty confident since the ICS came out but claiming Ewoks are impressive as the Magog now that takes it to new levels of idiocy

Concept of humor is beyond you I guess, at any rate the magog are simply unimpressive, cannon fodder is what they are displayed as on screen.

And it's going to find what…. It's not exactly like they can track a slipstream capable vessel.

No, the scenario was the slipstream vessels emerge at say Tatoiine, the local COMPNOR group will discover the unknown ship using an unknown method of FTL propulsion and signal the Empire who will promptly dispatch atleast one ISD into the area, if not a whole taskforce, and any sector fleet is designed so that they can react to any threat within minutes.

Are you the thread starter? Do you see any mention of a wormhole mentioned? Therefore there is no wormhole so get over it and stop crying I dictate it when there is not even a mention of one existing in the thread.

There was no mention of the CW being in range either, but as I just explained if the CW is so weak it needs to be outside effective SW striking distance, then that pretty much settles the deabte...

Yeah it says a lot to me. That a fully combat capable vessel isn't going to be able to make that trip. You might be able to do it if you strip the entire vessel down to just fuel and supplies. The Imperial Navy and their other military forces are still up the creek without a paddle.

Your proof for this is? Assumption ofcourse, there where no major modifications to said vessel, except removal of many weapons turrets and such.
I can just assume they can slap on an extra fuel tank outside and have it take them there.
Or I can just say they'll build a new capital ship that carries capital ships like fighters and fly that to the CW.

You say? I don't see you as the thread starter for some odd reason. You're the one dictating terms in a thread that clearly doesn't say a wormhole exits. Distance is irrelevant to slipstream. Now get over it, grow up, and admit the Imperial Fleet is pathetically short legged and slow compared to even a Commonwealth Scout Vessel.

I don't see you as the thread starter either, asshole.
Now, you grow up a bit and stop being so pathetic that you must grant the CW near total immunity for it to be able to win.
Thats sad, but if you say thats what it takes for the CW to win, say so and I'll leave.

Of course if you want to admit the Empire needs you to create a Deus Ex Machina in the form of a wormhole to beat the Commonwealth then carry on with your ranting.

Ofcourse you need the CW to be outside any effective striking range, that pretty much speaks loads of your "argument"...

So the Imps still get stomped by the tesseracted High Guard and can't find any of the Commonwealth because their worlds are tesseracted.

I fail to see how they can get stomped when the Highguard would be required to de-tesseract to fire, or atleast it's missiles, and those missiles har

The Empire never even managed to control the Centerpoint Station and were so stupid they never figured out what it was until it was too late. And they wouldn't even be able to find Tarn Vedra because it wouldn't be in the same dimension.

They where stupid for not bothering with something nobody anywhere has payed any attention to? No, you must be stupid if you think one is stupid for not knowing about something totally unknown...
I don't see why they would be in another dimension, the CW must atleast be decades prior to the Magog at this state because otherwise they'll be forced to fight a two-front war.

Well I guess I just have to break out the quotes
"Rose in the Ashes": Rommie
"Actually Counselor there were one million twenty two thousand three hundred and forty seven member worlds in the Systems Commonwealth"

Notice the key word "member".

Notice the key word, "world", not faction.

I all ready proved that the entire sphere of space under the control of the Sabra Jaguar joined as a single member world.

No you didn't, they joined up as one faction, if you actually find that wording, then you might have a point but now your wildly speculating.

At several other points during the series Hunt has referred to the Commonwealth as being made up of a millions of worlds. Please note the s on the end of million and please note that there is no mention of member. Now if you must insist I'll go pull out quotes concerning that.

And? it's a colloqiual(sp?) term, Rommie stated the actual number of worlds already.

{lapse into Radical Warsie Logic}
Oh the Empire only has one million member worlds. So let's get rid of all the other worlds because they aren't member worlds. Therefore the Commonwealth and the Empire are the same size and in fact the Empire is smaller because they only have a million. {End lapse into Radical Warsie Logic}

OW that hurt my head….

Probably because it's rabid andromeda logic.
And once again, you have not proven that the case is the same for the CW as for the Empire, because the Empire clearly lists all the worlds, just like rommie did, and they include all the 51 million worlds, colonies and protectorates, and this is backed up by many other quotes, all we have here is speculation, unlikely too since I never heard that when Pride Sabra Jaguar joined they specifically called them a single member world, a single member in the CW yes, but not a _world_.

That jump was an undeveloped sliproute the hardest type of jump a slippilot has to me. Beka performed it in a few minutes. Face it hyperdrive is just pathetically slow relative to slipstream and you're sounding as silly as people who claim warp is as fast as hyperdrive.

I already know hyperdrive is slower, you standing like an immature kid jumping up and down in joy over this fact does not help your case.
Plus not all pilots are rommie and it's still inconsistent and allsystems already says travel times can vary from minutes to months.

[His Divine Shadow]

A quick comment is that we don't know what the potential industrial base of the Commonwealth was. It's never really been discussed during the entire show but they have some interesting potential considering their considerable power in wielding nanotech.

Ugh, the nanotech fallacy again, didn't MW put that up on his brainbug page too?

Just because they have nanotech doesn't mean they magically get superfast industry that can assemble ships in seconds, no logically it means the opposite.

Roughly speaking they managed to go to enough of a wartime footing to battle off the Magog to a standstill within weeks of Bradenburg Tor. This was with the High Guard of that time being a largely ceremonial force and lacking much combat experience.

That doesn't mean they aren't trained for war, Finland hasn't seen a war in 50 years yet we're ready for war all the time.
Are you seriously trying to claim they just built a big bunch of ships like that?

The Magog themselves had enough available resources to build the Worldship that as I said earlier makes the Death Star II look like an Imperial pebble in comparison.

Ofcourse the majority of that construction is based on small planets, not an actual construction, that wich was constructed was the rings holding them together. And the size of the planets and the whole worldship is unknown.

[His Divine Shadow]

Ah yes:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Myths/Nanotech.html

[Crossover_Maniac]

Funny, it looked pretty crowded to me

Funny, there was only one observed asteroid there compared to the earlier scenes.

So, the ISD's goes through all of the trouble to find a slightly, less dense area of the asteroid field to send a fancy message, and yet dispite 60 LTL and 6 HTL, manages to get hit while their shields are down, even though they had other means to send communications to one another, that sounds so much better than my idea that their shields took so much damage inside the Hoth asteroid, their shields collapsed and gave way . Occam is doing flipflops in his grave.

You haven't proven crap. You offered no proof he was talking about the smaller support ships and fighters only

And you haven't proven crap either, but mine is more likely, and logical, because:
1. There where 20 ships there and fighters, some probably with comparable shields like the falcon, wich are much more vulnerable
2. ISD's have shrugged off much worse.

1). TIE fighters have no shields. Plus, you're telling me me military support vessels have comparable shields to a small freight vessel? ROTFLMAO!!!

2). From Mike's shield commentary:

a low-momentum, high-energy weapon such as a laser might not be as dangerous to a shielded vessel as a high-momentum, low-energy physical impactor. In this scenario, the potential points of failure are the shield generator itself, the points where it is mounted to the vessel, and the structure of the vessel itself. In other words, the mounting brackets, bolts, welds, shield generator internal mechanisms, shield generator forcefield strength, and all other connecting bits are parts of a chain through which reaction forces must go in order to make the end-to-end connection between the ship and the impactor. It can be thought of as a chain, and as in any chain, it is the weakest link that will cause your downfall.

Proof that SW vessels are vulnerable to physical impacts.

Too bad, because the velocity of a projectile is proportional to the square root of the lenght of the barrel.

Too bad that they can make effective railguns with short barrels already.

So, SW weapons are no required to follow the laws of physics?

velocity=sqrt(2*acceleration*distance). Maximum SW acceleration seen to date: the X-Wing proton torpedo=72,000 g's~700,000 m/s^2.

Based on what? I gave you the values and equations. All you give is your Warsie wet-dream. Put the numbers up where I can see them.

All you give is bullshit, those are low-number figures, if you want realistic figures we use much bigger figures, WTF do you expect from TT ranged shields and a big frickin railgun.
But hey it's not enough when we give SW disadvantages even...

Oh, now you're not required to give actual figures. We're all suppose to assume, since it's SW tech, it *must* be the strongest most powerful thing in the universe. Give me the actual numbers or shut the hell up.

And there's no reason why Darth Vader couldn't fire force lightening out of his ass or Yoda could crush the Death Star by thinking about it. Show some proof that Centerpoint Station has the range of millions of light-years.

There is no range limitation in hyperspace, since it fires a repulsor beam through it, wich BTW does not stop due to fuel shortage or anything like it.

Yeah, but even repulsor beams have a limited range. So, until you give proof that Centerpoint station has an intergalactic range, shut the hell up.

Slower ships, lagging years behind the star destroyers.

So? They'll be defending.
And with the empires incredible industry they can easily go on a wartime footing.

Unless it's industrial complex is destroyed by attacks with nova bombs and maxim charges.

It's funny how dwell time always last as long as it takes the visible portion of the turbolaser bolt to hit it.

It's funny how you refuse to accept the undeinable truth, I have made all the rationalizations required to make all evidence fit, I win by default, your trying to exclude evidence so you loose by default.

Let's go to the official star wars website and see: *snip*

And just why did you *snip* my quote from the OFFICAL STAR WARS WEBSITE? Let's look at your post and see why?

Let me just prove you wrong with a higher couple of higher sources:

So, the official website is trumped by the technical commentaries? Never heard Lucas mention this. But I seem to recall Lucas mentioning if anything from the extended universe contradicting his movies, the movies always trumps the other sources.

of: Attack of the Clones: The Visual Dictionary)

Don't turbolasers use tibanna gas? Funny how weapons that work on completely different principles uses the same type of violatile gas to create a reaction.

Pg. 39: Power-charge magazines supply the gun with energy to hyper-ionize the gas into charged plasma in an igniter chamber. The resulting bolt is accelerated out of the gun electromagnetically.

(ref: Attack of the Clones: The Visual Dictionary)

Doesn't seem to contradict what was said in the official website:

A squeeze of a trigger emits volatile blaster gas into a conversion chamber, where it is excited by energy from the weapon's power source. The agitated gas is then funneled through the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into an intense particle beam. A prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and passes it through a refinement chamber which "galvens" the beam into its final bolt.

Of course, none of these quote refutes what was said in the offical website:

The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles.

66 million ly in three weeks traveling at 50 million c, and you got the nerve to say I was displaying my stupidity? Go back to fourth grade and learn to divide.

Oh gee I'm so hurt.

You should. How do expect to engage in debate that requires some scientific knowledge when you can't do simple division.

Mad because I showed everyone how the Emperor got old and senile in his twilight years? Tough. Don't get mad at me because the Empire has incompetent leaders.

Still incapable of mounting any arguments eh?

Incompetient leadership is my argument. The Emperor's got an inflated ego and delusions of godhood. Luke Skywalker said it himself, that the Emperor's overconfidence is his weakness. He willingly gave plans to the Rebel forces of the DSII on the assumption his fleet could take the Rebels out. It never occurred to him to make alterations to the scematics of the DSII if worse came to worse. What would have happen to Lando if the Emperor altered the flight path to the reactor core. Lando would take a nasty turn into a wall and the worse thing that would have happened to the DSII was it needed to clean Lando splatted remains off of it.

Well I guess you need the Empire to be unable to mount any real counter attacks and to have the CW know everything in advance

Hey, I seem to recall saying you can have the Empire find out about the CW first. And I'll say it again, you can have the Empire find out about the CW first.

and to have tesseracting,

Like you had Centerpoint Station.

all this to beat a senile old man as you put it... :rolls:

And the Magog are just Ewoks, as you put it.

[Renewed_Valour1]

Ofcourse the majority of that construction is based on small planets, not an actual construction, that wich was constructed was the rings holding them together. And the size of the planets and the whole worldship is unknown.

Andromeda stated in "The Widening Gyre" it to be the size of your average star. You do realize with the MWS being that size one of those "rings" alone would be larger than the entire Death Star?

There was no mention of the CW being in range either,

Distance has no effect on slipstream travel times. How many times must I point that out to you before it sinks in?

I fail to see how they can get stomped when the Highguard would be required to de-tesseract to fire, or atleast it's missiles, and those missiles har,

This isn't a Star Trek cloak….
Either you have no concept of what tesseracting is or you are grabbing for straws. You don't have to "detesseract" to interact with objects in real space you can select how you interact. We've seen people reach into other people by selectively tesseracting their hand and remove objects from that person's body without tesseracting the rest of themselves. A Glorious Heritage Cruiser could easily tesseract itself then fire tesseracted missiles at say the bridge tower and then detesseract the missiles once they pass through the shields of the ISD. We all know how brdige towers handle kinetic hits. If they wanted they could wait until the missiles were inside the hull and then detesseract them thus the ISD would have 22mt kinetic missiles appearing inside of it.

Notice the key word, "world", not faction.

Note the Sabra Jaguar joined the Renewed Commonwealth as a single member world yet they control dozens to hundreds of worlds. If those worlds were counted as members they would have completed the 50 member worlds Hunt needed to form the Commonwealth. It just implies there are different level of worlds in the Commonwealth like in the Empire member worlds and then some lower level. We know the Commonwealth controlled High Guard Base Acaron(a planet) according the Una Salus Victus but it wasn't a member world.

Plus not all pilots are rommie and it's still inconsistent and allsystems already says travel times can vary from minutes to months. .

Good work… This proves you know everything about Andromeda.

Slipstream Rule #1: AIs like Rommie can't navigate the slipstream.

[Typhonis 1]

OK and how does the GHC get a tesseract device and missles???specially sine they havent shown these sepcial missles in the show???also if this takes place BEFORE the Niechian revolt then the High and Home Guard may not even HAVe these devices and the Vedians are merely experimenting with them at that point and for a planetary scale object.

[Crossover_Maniac]

There's one point I'd like to make about the AP cannons: someone said they couldn't do any damage since they can't interact with the metal in SW ships since they're shielded. Let's look at Ion cannons. Ion cannons shoot particles with an electric charge. Anti-protons are particles with a negative electric charge. AP cannons fire these at 99 PSL. And since SW ion cannons are affective against ships, there *maybe* a possibility that the AP cannons can work against ISD's even with their shields. Now, I leave it up to the rest of the posters to argue among themselves about this.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Also, according to this thread, Centerpoint Station is a piece of unknown alien technology. If this is true, can we consider this the same as PSP's being given the CW by the Magog and consider this technology outside interference?

[His Divine Shadow]

So, the ISD's goes through all of the trouble to find a slightly, less dense area of the asteroid field to send a fancy message, and yet dispite 60 LTL and 6 HTL, manages to get hit while their shields are down, even though they had other means to send communications to one another, that sounds so much better than my idea that their shields took so much damage inside the Hoth asteroid, their shields collapsed and gave way . Occam is doing flipflops in his grave.

Well duh, the way you're overcomplicating every last piece of thing to fit your incorrect viewpoint that contradicts official evidence, he'd kick you in the nuts if he could.

Anyway I never said anything with any certanty, whose to say the Executor simply didn't blow up all the asteroids in it's vicinity and then ordered the ships there for a conference.

Also, we see ISD's shooting down many more asteroids with bigger precision prior and after, wich could hint that the ISD was not functioning because based on observed canon visual evidence it should have easily been able to destroy that asteroid.

1). TIE fighters have no shields. Plus, you're telling me me military support vessels have comparable shields to a small freight vessel? ROTFLMAO!!!

Size matters not, ignorant one.

2). From Mike's shield commentary:

*snip*

Proof that SW vessels are vulnerable to physical impacts.

ROFL! You expect to use someone elses speculation as proof? You're dumber than I thought.
Anyway the ICS disproves that since the energy from impacts are turned into heat wich is dissipated by heatsinks, tough luck.

Plus then there is all that other official material shown that disagrees with you, plus the fact that millitary logic does not agree with you(they'd all use kinetic weapons in ship to ship warfare then, but they don't anymore, they went out a long long time, obsolete) plus the canon info of ISD shields withstanding MT ranged explosions, frames that can absorb GT ranged explosions.

So, SW weapons are no required to follow the laws of physics?

We try, anyhow, thats not the point, this argument has no point, a railgun big enough to see from space that has Hoth like shield generators(seen the size of those?) to protect it, is certanly big enough.

velocity=sqrt(2*acceleration*distance). Maximum SW acceleration seen to date: the X-Wing proton torpedo=72,000 g's~700,000 m/s^2.

Who cares? The ICS is pretty clear on the accelerative ranges for ships.
Even though the ISD might be an exception since it could outrun the millenium falcon in sublight.

Oh, now you're not required to give actual figures. We're all suppose to assume, since it's SW tech, it *must* be the strongest most powerful thing in the universe. Give me the actual numbers or shut the hell up.

Just fuck off, there are no actual numbers you idiot, only estimates, and since you refute the low-end ones because what is lowend to us is highend to you, I'll just use the 200 gigaton figures instead so that they'll match other weapons, wich they should have to, in order to be dangerous.
So there, we say they are just as powerfull as other weapons in the SW universe, we'll just chuck that notion of yours that I have been generously granting in order to have some debate here.

Yeah, but even repulsor beams have a limited range. So, until you give proof that Centerpoint station has an intergalactic range, shut the hell up.

Why don't you stop whining instead? Even so it's not required since nothing has been said about it having to traverse intra galactic distances.

Unless it's industrial complex is destroyed by attacks with nova bombs and maxim charges.

Wich cannot happen since CW ships are so weak they'll never be able to overcome the shields and weapons of SW's magnitude...

And just why did you *snip* my quote from the OFFICAL STAR WARS WEBSITE ? Let's look at your post and see why?

Why the hell should I not? I always snip useless information, if they want to read it they can look at your post, idiot...

So, the official website is trumped by the technical commentaries? Never heard Lucas mention this. But I seem to recall Lucas mentioning if anything from the extended universe contradicting his movies, the movies always trumps the other sources.

Yes it is, plus the books aren't in the EU, plus the information used for most of those websites sources comes from EU books and the essential guides, that quote comes from the EGWT, I have it, plus it doesn't have to contradict, and even if you refuse to accept that, I have a greater number of sources behind me than you.

Don't turbolasers use tibanna gas? Funny how weapons that work on completely different principles uses the same type of violatile gas to create a reaction.

Isn't it funny how much tripe you can spew out?
Stage one in a TL is the same as in a blaster, I have already covered this in the pure SW forum, and as usual my theory fits all the evidence.

Of course, none of these quote refutes what was said in the offical website:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The interior mechanisms of a tiny hold-out blaster, a blaster pistol, a large blaster rifle, and a turbolaser cannon are based on the same theories and principles .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh gee, look this is what was part of my argument too in my other TL thread that I have referenced to several times already...
The similarities have already been described and they work in favor of my TL argument wich still fits the ICS and the material you have brought up.

You should. How do expect to engage in debate that requires some scientific knowledge when you can't do simple division.

Who says I can't, I can do it very easily, ofcourse your understanding as I have seen is not something to write home about...
Especially not with that stupid AG folly, but you don't see me flapping over it like some desperate idiot now do you?
If the best you can do is to focus on what was a typo in calc.exe then you might as well shut the hell up as you're so fond of saying.

Incompetient leadership is my argument.

In other words, you have nothing solid whatsoever.

The Emperor's got an inflated ego and delusions of godhood.

The Emperor was destined to loose because he was going to go against the chosen one(It's been mentioned many times in the movies and novels), that was fate and it was already sealed, you cannot claim it's fate that the Emperor must loose to the CW, or that he would use any overly elaborate plan to do whatever.

Against all others the Emperor has done an excellent job, plus Wayne Poe showed a very interesting argument about the Emperors foresight and Luke SKywalkers influence.
Then again you also fail to see the reasons for such a complex plan, the Emperor wanted Luke, the rebels where just icing on the cake.

Luke Skywalker said it himself, that the Emperor's overconfidence is his weakness. He willingly gave plans to the Rebel forces of the DSII on the assumption his fleet could take the Rebels out. It never occurred to him to make alterations to the scematics of the DSII if worse came to worse. What would have happen to Lando if the Emperor altered the flight path to the reactor core. Lando would take a nasty turn into a wall and the worse thing that would have happened to the DSII was it needed to clean Lando splatted remains off of it.

And thats was just a big bunch of assumptions, you think you can just go made modifications like that on a structure that big and complex?
Not to mention the fucking fact that they did not know the way before because there was not any tunnels to fly into, they had to fly in through the unfinished superstructure, they had to find that out as they got there in the first place wich invalidates your argument.

Hey, I seem to recall saying you can have the Empire find out about the CW first. And I'll say it again, you can have the Empire find out about the CW first.

Doesn't matter to me, the wormhole idea is still the most even since the Empire will still have to deal with two other galaxies.

Like you had Centerpoint Station.

We could remove both if that'll make you feel better, Tesseracting is most likely out of the window anyway since the time era requires the Commonwealth to be atleast some decade before the magog invasion.

And the Magog are just Ewoks, as you put it

And they beat everything through sheer numbers, even in personal combat, just like the Ewoks.

[His Divine Shadow]

Andromeda stated in "The Widening Gyre" it to be the size of your average star. You do realize with the MWS being that size one of those "rings" alone would be larger than the entire Death Star?

In volume they are larger yes, but if we took the material of them and put them together, what size would they become?

Distance has no effect on slipstream travel times. How many times must I point that out to you before it sinks in?

The intention is the same, nowhere is it said the CW is within range, wich by that I mean it's accessible to them and the Empire is not.
Nor do I see the point then because it's not a versus anymore, it's just the Empire blwoing up the occasional invasion force, assuming ofcourse the CW would want to invade.

Either you have no concept of what tesseracting is or you are grabbing for straws. You don't have to "detesseract" to interact with objects in real space you can select how you interact. We've seen people reach into other people by selectively tesseracting their hand and remove objects from that person's body without tesseracting the rest of themselves. A Glorious Heritage Cruiser could easily tesseract itself then fire tesseracted missiles at say the bridge tower and then detesseract the missiles once they pass through the shields of the ISD.

They could? Now I find that hard to buy because the only time we see partial tesseracting is when with a single object, IOW a human de-tesseracting a part of herself, how could they controll the missiles at such distances and speed when they aren't even part of the ship anymore? Wouldn't they need a separate tesseracting generator on the missile for that?

We all know how brdige towers handle kinetic hits.

Yeah, asteroids pulverizes against the hull.

Note the Sabra Jaguar joined the Renewed Commonwealth as a single member world yet they control dozens to hundreds of worlds.

You keep on saying member world, they joined as a single member, not member world.
I'd love to see the quote from the show that says this.

Good work… This proves you know everything about Andromeda.

No it proves I made a misstake, I knew it was Beka, it's not my fault rommie sticks much better in my brain, and that I think is not something I am alone in..

[His Divine Shadow]

BTW, this is my last reply to this thread, work begins anew tomorrow and I do not have time for large debates like this.

[Crossover_Maniac]

So, the ISD's goes through all of the trouble to find a slightly, less dense area of the asteroid field to send a fancy message, and yet dispite 60 LTL and 6 HTL, manages to get hit while their shields are down, even though they had other means to send communications to one another, that sounds so much better than my idea that their shields took so much damage inside the Hoth asteroid, their shields collapsed and gave way . Occam is doing flipflops in his grave.

Well duh, the way you're overcomplicating every last piece of thing to fit your incorrect viewpoint that contradicts official evidence, he'd kick you in the nuts if he could.

I wasn't the one overcomplicating things. I said simply, the ISD's shields collapsed after a long period of bombardment from the Hoth asteroids. You were the ones making up all of the hypothetical scenario.

Anyway I never said anything with any certanty,

You do when it suits your purpose. It only when someone disproves your argument you do claim, "I never said anything with any certainity."

whose to say the Executor simply didn't blow up all the asteroids in it's vicinity and then ordered the ships there for a conference.

So, the Executor, rather than use a communication systems that wouldn't leave their ship vulnerable, blast all asteroids within a 50-100 km radius, calls all of the ships to drop their shields for their fancy holo-conference, and somehow, a solitary asteroid slips past hundreds of light turbolasers and dozens of heavy turbolasers and nails a ship. If anyone deserves a kick in the balls from Occam, it's you.

Also, we see ISD's shooting down many more asteroids with bigger precision prior

And manages to miss that single asteroid that hit the bridge of an ISD.

and after, wich could hint that the ISD was not functioning because based on observed canon visual evidence it should have easily been able to destroy that asteroid.

You are aware that each turbolasers has independent fire control and can operate even when the ship's main reactor goes off line. And there's 60 of them that could have destroyed that asteroid with one blast.

1). TIE fighters have no shields. Plus, you're telling me me military support vessels have comparable shields to a small freight vessel? ROTFLMAO!!!

Size matters not, ignorant one.

I'm being called ignorant by a man that can't do fourth grade math. I'm insulted.

2). From Mike's shield commentary:

*snip*

Proof that SW vessels are vulnerable to physical impacts.

ROFL! You expect to use someone elses speculation as proof?

Now, who else here cited Mike Wong as a source? I seem to recall someone posting a link to his nanotechnology fallacy. Oh, yeah. That was you. You're completely dependent on Mike Wong for all of your scientific arguments.

You're dumber than I thought.

At least I know how to divide.

Anyway the ICS disproves that since the energy from impacts are turned into heat wich is dissipated by heatsinks, tough luck.

When dealing with physical impacts, you also have to deal with momentum. SW shields have to produce enough force stop an object traveling at 0.9c at a distance of 10 meters, the spacing between SW shield and outer hull. The only way the shields can dissipate the KE of a CW offensive missile is by completely stopping it before it pentrates the hull of the ship, and if SW shields had trouble with the Hoth asteroids, then it's not going to stop an relativistic projectile.

Plus then there is all that other official material shown that disagrees with you, plus the fact that millitary logic does not agree with you(they'd all use kinetic weapons in ship to ship warfare then, but they don't anymore, they went out a long long time, obsolete)

Or they lack the technology to do so. It take a massive acceleration to bring an object from 0 to 90 PSL in a short distance. Even if you ran a railgun accross the length of an ISD to accelerate a missile to 0.9c (1600 meters), you need an acceleration of 7.3E13 m/s^2 or 7.46 trillion g's. To even get a projectile at 0.09 c, requires an acceleration of 2,29E11 m/s^2 or 234 million g's. Assuming SW projectiles has an acceleration of 720,000 g's (being generous enough to give an acceleration 10 times that of the proton torpedo Luke Skywalker used to destroy the DS), it would take 55.24 light-seconds or 16.6 million kilometers for the thing to accelerate on its own requiring a time of 223.7 seconds to accelerate, while most of the acceleration done by CW projectiles are done from the magnetic launcher on board the ship, allowing the offensive missiles to conserve its fuel for maneveurs and course corrections.

plus the canon info of ISD shields withstanding MT ranged explosions, frames that can absorb GT ranged explosions.

What about impacts at 10,000 trillion Newtons with sheer stresses at several billion gigapascals at a rate of 320 impact per second?

So, SW weapons are no required to follow the laws of physics?

We try, anyhow, thats not the point, this argument has no point, a railgun big enough to see from space that has Hoth like shield generators(seen the size of those?) to protect it, is certanly big enough.

Assuming the railgun is 100 miles long (160 kilometers) capable of acceleration projectiles at 720,000 g's, it's final velocity would be 1.5 million m/s or 0.005 c. That's no where near the speeds CW offensive missiles are capable of.

Oh, now you're not required to give actual figures. We're all suppose to assume, since it's SW tech, it *must* be the strongest most powerful thing in the universe. Give me the actual numbers or shut the hell up.

Just fuck off

Don't get mad at me because I made you admit you had no figures from the actual book.

there are no actual numbers you idiot, only estimates

So, you made the size of the projectiles and rate of fire. Okay, now it's perfectly clear. You're a liar.

and since you refute the low-end ones because what is lowend to us is highend to you, I'll just use the 200 gigaton figures instead so that they'll match other weapons, wich they should have to, in order to be dangerous.

IOW: you get pull all of this out of your ass if suits you.

So there, we say they are just as powerfull as other weapons in the SW universe, we'll just chuck that notion of yours that I have been generously granting in order to have some debate here.

Lying in a debate is not being, generous.

Yeah, but even repulsor beams have a limited range. So, until you give proof that Centerpoint station has an intergalactic range, shut the hell up.

Why don't you stop whining instead? Even so it's not required since nothing has been said about it having to traverse intra galactic distances.

Another one of your lies. You demanded that there would be no outside help in this fight, and you used a weapon developed by another race predating the Republic.

Unless it's industrial complex is destroyed by attacks with nova bombs and maxim charges.

Wich cannot happen since CW ships are so weak they'll never be able to overcome the shields and weapons of SW's magnitude...

So, SW planets can survive their own star going supernova?

The Emperor was destined to loose because he was going to go against the chosen one(It's been mentioned many times in the movies and novels), that was fate and it was already sealed, you cannot claim it's fate that the Emperor must loose to the CW, or that he would use any overly elaborate plan to do whatever.

This fight has nothing to do with fate. It has everything to do with who has the superior military capabilities, or are you going to use that fate argument in every SW vs battles?

[Crossover_Maniac]

[quote="Crossover_Maniac]

So, you made the size of the projectiles and rate of fire. Okay, now it's perfectly clear. You're a liar.[/quote]

I meant to say 'So, you made up the size of the projectiles and rate of fire'.

IOW: you get pull all of this out of your ass if suits you.

That was suppose to be 'you just pull all of this out of ass'.

Where's the edit option when you need it.

[omegaLancer]

wooow Guys settle down, Cross and shadow we are getting a little bit to serious in the tone here.

First Cross over, it difficult to have a fruitful discussion of of this when you dismith out of hand that the Empire can get to the Common wealth, first you say that since Common wealth scouts have never found any traits of the Empire then it cannot be a near by Galaxy..

and that due to nature of slip stream drive that they can travel to any galaxy they choose cause slip stream require little to no time.. Wrong

here is a quote from the system common wealth library:

"One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months."

Hummm months the same time it would take A star destroyer to from the Milky way galaxy to Andromeda galaxies, using the Upper know values of Hyperspace velocities"...

Also do to the nature of Slip stream travel there are large potion of space unexplored due to fact that Proper slip stream points are not known..

In our own local group there are 30 galaxies: The Milky Way Galaxy belongs to the Local Group, a smaller group of 3 large and over 30 small galaxies, and is the second largest (after the Andromeda Galaxy M31) but perhaps the most massive member of this group. M31, at about 2.9 million light years, is the nearest large galaxy, but a number of faint galaxies are much closer: Many of the dwarf Local Group members are satellites or companions of the Milky Way. The closest of all is above-mentioned SagDEG at about 80,000 light years from us and some 50,000 light years from the Galactic Center, followed by the more conspicuous Large and Small Magellanic Cloud at 179,000 and 210,000 light years, respectively.

so i find it hard to find that CW knew all about the galaxies around them since they are confine to 3 and commonily talk about 6...

So even with out a Worm hole if we take upper figure of 50 million C that was perform by the Falcon going from Tantooine to Alderaan...

So let say that the Empire is located in M31 Galaxy( Andromeda galaxy, yes i just using it as an example) it 2.9 million LY away , it would take 21.9 days for a Empire to get there, whille a slip steam ship get there in a minute, aday, a week or an month ( and maybe even never)...

And also possible that the journey may take a combination of jumps. each requiring sub light travel between points....


Here a list have your pick and tell me where you think that empire could located and then we can discuss this in an fair and objective manner

Galaxy RA Dec Type m_v dim RV Dist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WLM 00:02.0 -15:28 IB(s) IV-V 10.9 12 x 4 - 42 4200
IC 10 00:20.4 +59:18 KBm? 10.3 7.3 x 6.4 - 83 4200:
Cet dw 00:26.1 -11:02 dSph/E4 3000:
NGC 147 00:33.2 +48:31 dE5 pec 9.5 15.0 x 9.4 + 89 2400:
And III 00:35.4 +36:31 dSph/E2 13.5p 2900:
NGC 185 00:39.0 +84:20 dE3 pec 9.2 14.5 x 12.5 + 39 2500:
M110 00:41.3 +41:41 E5 pec 8.5 19.5 x 12.5 - 1 2900
And IV 00:42.5 +40:34 Irr ? 2900:
M 32 00:42.7 +40:52 E2 (cE2) 8.1 11.0 x 7.3 + 35 2900
M 31 00:42.7 +41:16 SA(s)b I-II 3.4 185.0 x 75.0 - 59 2900
And I 00:45.7 +38:00 dSph/E3 pec ? 13.2 2900:
SMC 00:51.7 -73:14 SB(s)m pec 2.3 280 x 160 - 30 210
Scl dw 01:00.0 -33:42 dSph/E3 pec 10.5p +162 300:
LGS 3 01:03.8 +21:53 Irr 15.4p 2 3000:
IC 1613 01:05.1 +02:08 IAB(s)m V 9.2 20.0 x 18.5 -125 2900:
And V 01:10.3 +47:38 dSph 2900:
And II 01:16.4 +33:27 dSph/E0 13: 2900:
M 33 01:33.9 +30:39 SA(s)cd II-III 5.7 67.0 x 41.5 + 3 3000
Phe dw 01:51.1 -44:27 Irr 1600:
For dw 02:39.9 -34:32 dSph/E2 8.1 12.0 x 10.2 530:
UGCA 86 03:59.9 +67:08 Irr ? S0 ? +262
UGCA 92 04:27.4 +63:30 Irr ? S0 ? + 66 3000:
LMC 05:19.7 -68:57 SB(s)m 0.1 650 x 550 + 13 179
Car dw 06:14.6 -50:58 dSph/E3 20.9p 300:
Leo A 09:59.4 +30:45 IBm V 7000:
Sex B 10:00.0 +05:20 Ir+ IV-V 4000:
NGC 3109 10:03.1 -26:09 Ir+ IV-V 10. p 16.0 x 2.9 +131 4100:
Ant dw 10:04.1 -27:20 dSph/E3 14.8 4100:
Leo I 10:08.5 +12:18 dE3 9.8 880:
Sex A 10:11.1 -04:43 Ir+ V 4000:
Sex dw 10:13.2 -01:37 dSph/E3 300:
Leo II 11:13.5 +22:10 dSph/E0 pec 800:
GR 8 12:58.7 +14:13 Im V 14.5 1.2 x 1.1 +165 5000:
UMi dw 15:08.8 +67:12 dSph/E4 10.9 41.0 x 26.0 240:
Dra dw 17:20.1 +57:55 dSph/E0 pec 9.9 51.0 x 31.0 280
SagDEG 18:55 -30:30 dSph/E7 +168 80
SagDIG 19:30.1 -17:42 IB(s)m V 15: 2000:
NGC 6822 19:44.9 -14:49 IB(s)m IV-V 9 + 66 1700:
Aqr dw 20:46.8 -12:51 Im V 13.9 2.3 x 1.2 2000:
IC 5152 22:06.1 -51:17 IAB(s)m IV 10.6 4.9 x 3.0 + 30 3000:
Tuc dw 22:41.7 -64:25 dSph/E5 3000:
UKS2323-326 23:26.5 -32:23 Irr 4500:
And VII 23:27.8 +50:35 dSph 2900:
Peg dw 23:28.6 +14:45 Im V 6000:
And VI 23:51.7 +24:36 dSph 2900:


Note distant is in 1000 of lys

Each within reach of hyper drive equip ship.....

[Crossover_Maniac]

and that due to nature of slip stream drive that they can travel to any galaxy they choose cause slip stream require little to no time.. Wrong

here is a quote from the system common wealth library:

"One interesting thing about moving through the slipstream is that travel time between points has very little to do with the distance actually traveled. If a pilot is lucky, and the stream unfolds just right, the ship could transit between galaxies in minutes. But put an unlucky pilot at the helm and the same trip could take weeks or even months."

Correct, it depends on the individual pilot.

So let say that the Empire is located in M31 Galaxy( Andromeda galaxy, yes i just using it as an example) it 2.9 million LY away , it would take 21.9 days for a Empire to get there, whille a slip steam ship get there in a minute, aday, a week or an month ( and maybe even never)...

You make it sound like Slipstream is complete random. It's only random for AI's like Rommie. The very act of choosing a path in the slipstream changes the path itself. To AI's like Rommie, the slipstream is just the opposite, the path is either right or wrong. It was stated in the show if you pick a path, it's usually the right one. Also, the pilot's confidence in his/her/it's own skills is also an important factor given the nature of slipstream. Even Rommie managed to cover 66 million yrs distance in 13 months wandering through random slipstream portals when she lost her entire crew when it was occupied by Magog. Even a ship flying blind through the slipstream is as fast as the fastest hyperdrive that the Empire has. And I doubt High Guard would put 'unlucky' pilots in the slipstream controls.

[Renewed_Valour1]

In volume they are larger yes, but if we took the material of them and put them together, what size would they become?

Scaling isn't something I can manage very well. However to give you an idea the smallest a star can be and maintain fusion is about the size of Jupiter. Considering how large some of those planets are compared to that star they'd easily dwarf the Earth. Those connectors have to be huge for them to even show up much compare do those planets. I'd say hundreds of kilometers across or thousands.

They could? Now I find that hard to buy because the only time we see partial tesseracting is when with a single object, IOW a human de-tesseracting a part of herself, how could they controll the missiles at such distances and speed when they aren't even part of the ship anymore? Wouldn't they need a separate tesseracting generator on the missile for that?

1) Jeger's ship while tesseracting was visual to the Andromeda but immune to all counter fire, which passed through it yet, he was able to return fire. An agent of the abyss in "Into the Labyrinth" used the same trick to rip out someone's heart. The Vedran in "The Fair Unknown" was able to run through tesseracts thus increasing her speed.

2) Use drones or smart missiles. And tesseracting allows for both FTL sensors and communications. We see them used in "Into the Labyrinth" and "Harper 2.0".

3) Yes they would need a separate generator but we've seen self contained tesseracting generators that were capable of fitting in Harper's data port with hardly any of is sticking out. So fitting a small unit to an attack drone or missiles would be easy.

So once again gigaton trubolasers and terraton shields are useless against tesseracting.

Yeah, asteroids pulverizes against the hull.

More like asteroid pulverizes the hull.

You keep on saying member world, they joined as a single member, not member world.
I'd love to see the quote from the show that says this.

Let me spell it out again. The Sabra- Jaguar has to control over a hundred worlds to even challenge the Drago Kasov. Yet when they signed Hunt's charter that called for 50 worlds wasn't complete. Obviously then the other worlds under their control weren't counted as member worlds.

[omegaLancer]

The problem in defining what kind of effect a KE weapon may have on A SW force field is the fact that we know little of the nature and the physics invovled.. First the Sw refer to their defensive system as shields and breaks it down to particles shield and Energy shields...

Since we are worried about the KE impact from CW missiles let look at Particles shields

What are particles shields, We know from SWEG to Weapon and Technology that Particle shields not only absorb KE of impact but also strenghten the hull integrity..

But the main problem is that in Mike Wong Shield Analysis the main problem face by any shield Generator is the Reactive forces that arise from stopping a physical object.

We know that the Star destroyer are well design vessel and their engineers should have easily seen this as a problem. Just look at the Bracing design to support Turbo lasers:

Star Wars -> Novel -> Slave Ship / Turbolasers
Pg. 248 : "The laser cannons being mounted into the open skeletal frames required bracing and recoil-dissipation casings that would have withstood explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range. Anything less, and a single shot fired in battle would rip a destroyer or battle cruiser in two, a victim of its own lethal strength".

It would seem that if this was the case for turbolaser, for shield projector this would have also been the case...

We know form "Anakin the story of Vader" that Pursuing star Destroyer took the impact of meteor that measured in the megatons, not the 150 kiloton that Mike quotes, this right here proves that the bracings must be design to with stand at least physical impact in the megaton ranges...

In one Case A star Destroyer taken dozen of hit from Projectiles fired from a Hyper Velocity cannon, such a device was considered a low tech, cheap planetary defensive weapons, so KE missiles used by the CW would not be any different from this or Concussion Missiles ( which deliver megatons ( 1 to 100 megatons) damage as physical impact)..

So the fact is that KE missiles are no more effective as any other weapons used in SW universe

[Crossover_Maniac]

The problem in defining what kind of effect a KE weapon may have on A SW force field is the fact that we know little of the nature and the physics invovled.. First the Sw refer to their defensive system as shields and breaks it down to particles shield and Energy shields...

Since we are worried about the KE impact from CW missiles let look at Particles shields

What are particles shields, We know from SWEG to Weapon and Technology that Particle shields not only absorb KE of impact but also strenghten the hull integrity..

But the main problem is that in Mike Wong Shield Analysis the main problem face by any shield Generator is the Reactive forces that arise from stopping a physical object.

We know that the Star destroyer are well design vessel and their engineers should have easily seen this as a problem. Just look at the Bracing design to support Turbo lasers:

Star Wars -> Novel -> Slave Ship / Turbolasers
Pg. 248 : "The laser cannons being mounted into the open skeletal frames required bracing and recoil-dissipation casings that would have withstood explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range. Anything less, and a single shot fired in battle would rip a destroyer or battle cruiser in two, a victim of its own lethal strength".

Assuming turbolasers fire massless particles, we can use the following equation needed to calculate the momentum generated per shot.

p=U/c

where p is the momentum, U is the energy per shot, and c is the speed of light.

p=200 gigatons*4.2E18 joules/gigaton/3E8m/s=2.8E12 kg*m/s.

From the turbolaser commentary, the firing time for each turbolaser is 1/15th of a second. Using the equation,

F=p/t

where F is force, p is momentum, and t is time, we have a force of

F=2.8E12/(1/15)=2.8E12*15=4.2E13 Newtons.

There's two things to consider:

1). this is less than 0.37% of the force necessary to stop an offensive missiles from hitting an ISD hull.

2). Also, the lasers needes special bracketing and casings to withstand the forces generated. These brackets would have spread out the force across a large area. OTOH, the force generated by the offensive missiles would be concentrated on a single area less than the cross-section of a man's fist.

It would seem that if this was the case for turbolaser, for shield projector this would have also been the case...

We know form "Anakin the story of Vader" that Pursuing star Destroyer took the impact of meteor that measured in the megatons, not the 150 kiloton that Mike quotes, this right here proves that the bracings must be design to with stand at least physical impact in the megaton ranges...

A man throwing a punch has more momentum than a bullet, but a bullet travels faster, requiring a larger force to stop from pentrating human flesh in a smaller area. As for the Hoth asteroids, the asteroids were all moving uniformally at about the same speed. As an example, let's say an ISD experiences a 10 megaton colllision with an asteroid traveling at a velocity of 1000 m/s and with a density of 7000 kg/m^3, the mass of the asteroid would be 8.4 million tons. With an average density of 7000 kg/m^3, the asteroid would be 229 meters on the side if it was roughly cube-shaped. The force needed to stop this asteroid would be

F=ma

a=V^2/(2*distance betwen shields and outer hull of ship)

F=8.4E9*(1000^2)/(2*10 meters)=4.2E14 Newtons

This would be about 3.62% of the force necessary to stop an offensive missile at .9 c. Also, assuming that the roughly cubed shaped asteroid struck the ISD on one its sides, the sheer stress generated would have been

sheer=F/cross-section area
sheer=4.2E14/(229^2)=8.013 GPa or over 8 billion Newtons per meter square. OTOH: the shear stress generated by a projectile requiring 1.16 Netwons of force to stop it with a cross-section the size of a man's fist (2 inches by 5 inches or 5.08 cm by 12.7 cm or 0.0508 meters by 0.127 meters), would be

sheer=1.16E16/(0.0508*0.127)=1.798E9 GPa.

That is more than 224 million times more sheer stress generated by the offensive missiles than a 10 megaton collision. Even assuming the asteroid struck the ISD with one of its corners or it had a shape with a smaller cross-section, you could only increase the sheer stress by one order of magnitude while it'll take a figure 8 orders of magnitude to have a comparative sheer stress.

In one Case A star Destroyer taken dozen of hit from Projectiles fired from a Hyper Velocity cannon,

Projectiles traveling at orbital velocity (17,000 miles per hour) are considered hypervelocity.

such a device was considered a low tech, cheap planetary defensive weapons, so KE missiles used by the CW would not be any different from this or Concussion Missiles ( which deliver megatons ( 1 to 100 megatons) damage as physical impact)..

How fast do they go? What is their mass?

So the fact is that KE missiles are no more effective as any other weapons used in SW universe[/quote]

[Crossover_Maniac]

From http://www.moseisley.com/swenc/encyc-c.htm

Concussion Missile
a detonation device which, although not as powerful as a proton torpedo, is much faster. They employ an armor-piercing tip mounted on a compact energy pack. This tip allows the missile to penetrate a ship's hull, while also serving to ignite the weapon's energy pack. Upon striking a target, an atom smasher is activated near the energy pack, imploding the atoms and generating a huge amount of energy and heat. This first melts the target, then explodes it. (ROTJ, SWSB, DFR, SCRE)

If this is correct, then a concussion missiles isn't a true KE weapon and wouldn't care the sort of low-energy, high-momentum/sheer damage that offensive missiles do.