Avengers out on DVD

[PeZook]

I still don't see why it needs any additional mass-altering mechanisms purely for the wielding-prevention capability when whatever makes it move is cleary a sufficient explanation to counter attemps to lift or move it by those without access. Advanced sensors + ability to give itself arbitrary momentum and velocity...and voila. Done.

Remember that Loki's an Asgardian (well, ice giant...), so trying to prevent itself from being moved by increasing mass to counter Loki's strength would run the risk of killing him, or at least increase his discomfort as he tried.

[Mr Bean]

Remember that Loki's an Asgardian (well, ice giant...), so trying to prevent itself from being moved by increasing mass to counter Loki's strength would run the risk of killing him, or at least increase his discomfort as he tried.

No because it increases and decreases with the force used. As Loki tries to lift with say 200 pounds of force in one direction it increases in the opposite direction the same amount. It's counter acting in whichever direction it's being pulled including down.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Part of the movement problem is that all positions & velocities are relative, there's no fixed reference point for the hammer to react to- God hasn't drawn a chalk line through the galaxy. Another problem is that the truck trying to tow the thing is as inanimate as the carrier. Though is it my imagination, or is the hammer itself partially embedded in the rock that it's found?

[avatarxprime]

Remember that Loki's an Asgardian (well, ice giant...), so trying to prevent itself from being moved by increasing mass to counter Loki's strength would run the risk of killing him, or at least increase his discomfort as he tried.

No because it increases and decreases with the force used. As Loki tries to lift with say 200 pounds of force in one direction it increases in the opposite direction the same amount. It's counter acting in whichever direction it's being pulled including down.

Yeah, but the force is all focused on Loki's chest. When Thor places Mjolnir on Loki he was instantly pinned. It would take a large weight on your chest to completely stop you from being able to get up or at least start rocking to get the weight off you, Loki was unable to do anything. The hammer needs to be exerting a certain amount of weight just to keep him down, and then additional weight after that to prevent him from lifting it. There needs to be a net downward force, and that force needs to be high enough to keep Loki down even if it can be increased to ensure he can't lift the hammer up or otherwise get out from under it when really trying.

[Mr Bean]

Yeah, but the force is all focused on Loki's chest. When Thor places Mjolnir on Loki he was instantly pinned. It would take a large weight on your chest to completely stop you from being able to get up or at least start rocking to get the weight off you, Loki was unable to do anything. The hammer needs to be exerting a certain amount of weight just to keep him down, and then additional weight after that to prevent him from lifting it. There needs to be a net downward force, and that force needs to be high enough to keep Loki down even if it can be increased to ensure he can't lift the hammer up or otherwise get out from under it when really trying.

You assume the weight can not change quickly, I'm talking about millionths of a second here. The time it takes for you to sit up is forever in universe time. It acts opposite your will, your intelligent will as it does judge people (somehow).

[Ted C]

Just had a disturbing notion...

What if getting the Cube from Earth was never Thanos's plan?

Sure, if Loki's plan works, Thanos gets the Cube and Loki gets to run a planet that is otherwise worthless to Thanos. Once Thanos has the Cube, he can move on with his plans to do bad things around the universe.

If Loki's plan fails, then Thanos can be reasonably sure that the Cube will end up in Asgard. We've already seen that the Cube can be forced to open a temporary portal from Thanos's side. If Loki fails and the Cube goes to Asgard, Thanos has a way to get into Asgard, and he'll probably emerge in the Weapons Vault.

[DPDarkPrimus]

The same Weapons Vault where the Infinity Gauntlet is?

[Batman]

When something is called 'The' Weapons Valut, that's generally a good indicator that either this is the only one, or it's the primary among a number of subsidiaries, so either way, yeah, presumably.

[Kojiro]

What if getting the Cube from Earth was never Thanos's plan?

That would certainly explain the relatively weak force sent to take it, along with the 'shut down' command for the army. I like that idea a lot.

That said it also implies Odin is unaware of the Tesseract portal ability or that the weapons vault isn't 'shielded' from outside entry, though Loki got three frost giants in there. That said if Loki already knew a way in there perhaps that would be much simpler than this whole endeavour. But then maybe Odin has closed those gaps since the incursion...

[Batman]

Out-of-universe speculation. Thanos (and all that s related to him) has yet to...Oh fuckit, nobody but me cares about that anyway.

[PeZook]

The force sent into NYC was weak?

[Batman]

Yes, absolutely. Given that Hawkeye and the Widow could not only hold their own but go through the bikers like they weren't there, if it ever got to the scene in time the real world US military would have made mincemeat of them. Same goes for the giant mechanical snakes.
Heck, if Thor hadn't hadn't been so intent on hitting people with his hammer chances are he could've contained the whole invasion to the point that little if any scyscraper-level incursions happened to begin with.

[aieeegrunt]

How does Loki inhale with the hammer on his chest?

[SCRawl]

How does Loki inhale with the hammer on his chest?

I was thinking the same thing (but see below). More specifically, I was thinking of a constrictor snake, which tightens as it feels you exhale.

Of course, you can breathe without your chest moving up and down, so it's not like Loki would be suffocated if Thor was even a little bit careful about where he put the hammer.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

How does Loki inhale with the hammer on his chest?

Do Asgardians/Frost Giants need to breath?

[Batman]

Assuming for the moment Asgardians/Frost giants do need to breathe (WRT the movies we pretty much have to assume they do, because the actors sure as hell did) as that is the mostly instincual need to breathe and even if intentional, nothing more than the want to breathe, not a deliberate attempt to move the hammer, it would presumably not trigger Mjolnir's 'somebody unworthy is trying to wield me' alerts.

[Lost Soal]

Pretty sure there would still be room for his lungs to expand even if not to full capacity.

[Batman]

No there wouldn't without moving the hammer. You breathe in, your chest rises. It may not rise much depending on how deep or shallow the take-in of breath is but your chest will move.

[Terralthra]

No there wouldn't without moving the hammer. You breathe in, your chest rises. It may not rise much depending on how deep or shallow the take-in of breath is but your chest will move.

It can move laterally. If there's a force keeping the ribs from expanding outwards, the collar girdle can rise and the lungs can expand upwards into the space created and downwards toward the diaphragm.

[Batman]

Well I don't have a sufficiently heavy hammer at hand to test your theory, so I'll for the time being assume you're correct.
That would, however, also mean that Loki could go on breathing even if Mjolnir kept his chest from expanding.

[Ted C]

Given that Hawkeye and the Widow could not only hold their own but go through the bikers like they weren't there, if it ever got to the scene in time the real world US military would have made mincemeat of them. Same goes for the giant mechanical snakes.

I think I would dispute that assessment. Hawkeye and Widow were giving much better than they got, but the were getting hurt in there. If they'd been swarmed just a little bit more, they wouldn't have been able to handle it.

I'm not sure what you think the modern military would have done about the Leviathans. Tony's armor has missiles that can blow up tanks in one shot, but he didn't have anything that could penetrate the armor on those things. Seems like it would be really hard to drop them with AA fire, although I'm no expert on modern AA weapons.

Heck, if Thor hadn't hadn't been so intent on hitting people with his hammer chances are he could've contained the whole invasion to the point that little if any scyscraper-level incursions happened to begin with.

Thor's lightning is certainly enough to kill those things, but it looked like summoning up lightning of that intensity was quite difficult for him. Not sure how long he could keep it up.

[Batman]

Given that Hawkeye and the Widow could not only hold their own but go through the bikers like they weren't there, if it ever got to the scene in time the real world US military would have made mincemeat of them. Same goes for the giant mechanical snakes.

I think I would dispute that assessment. Hawkeye and Widow were giving much better than they got, but the were getting hurt in there. If they'd been swarmed just a little bit more, they wouldn't have been able to handle it.

No, they likely wouldn't. The difference is a) there's more than two lone grunts in the US military, and b) the US military actually has a supply train, so no running out of arrows problem. (Well technically they'd probably be out of arrows from the word go what with there being few if any archers in the US armed forces but you know what I mean).

I'm not sure what you think the modern military would have done about the Leviathans. Tony's armor has missiles that can blow up tanks in one shot, but he didn't have anything that could penetrate the armor on those things. Seems like it would be really hard to drop them with AA fire, although I'm no expert on modern AA weapons.

1. Tony's armour has missiles that can blow up what might very well have been and likely was an early to mid Cold War 'buy one, get one free' soviet design. We've had missiles that can do that for 25 years or more (though admittedly none that would fit into Tony's armour).
2. The Mk VII's missiles were considerably smaller than the one the Mk II blew up the tank with in IM. Yes, there was a lot of them, but not all armour is ablative. They may simply not have had the oomph to go through the snake's armour.
The military, by contrast, while not having the technology Stark does, also has much, much bigger missiles. Plus the snakes were so slow you could probably hit them with iron bombs, leave alone LGBs or actual guided missiles. Then there's different types of warheads...

Heck, if Thor hadn't hadn't been so intent on hitting people with his hammer chances are he could've contained the whole invasion to the point that little if any scyscraper-level incursions happened to begin with.

Thor's lightning is certainly enough to kill those things, but it looked like summoning up lightning of that intensity was quite difficult for him. Not sure how long he could keep it up.

Where do you get this from? I never noticed Thor being particularly strained by his 'bring the lightning' stunt, he just decided not to keep it of for whatever reason from what I remember. Mind you, I get hit over the head a lot so my memory is far from perfect.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

If Battle: Los Angeles is any indication, the kind of missile they used a laser to guide into its target would be a good start (it's not like we have Wheelie and Brains to bring them down from inside). Thing with air-to-air missiles is, they're designed to hit small, fast-moving aircraft. I'd be more inclined to use anti-tank weapons instead, the A-10 with its GAU-8 comes to mind for the job

[Batman]

I personally would start with Hellfires and work my way up from there, but as long as they can stay above the skyscrapers (and I see no reasons why they couldn't, it's not like large parts of New York are roofed over or something) the Hogs should work too. Plus, on top of the cannon, they can carry lots of external stores...

[Kojiro]

Where do you get this from? I never noticed Thor being particularly strained by his 'bring the lightning' stunt, he just decided not to keep it of for whatever reason from what I remember. Mind you, I get hit over the head a lot so my memory is far from perfect.

If you watch it again, it does look like a strain for him. We should remember he is injured at this point from that stiletto Loki got him with. It seems easier to buy that it's hard for him than he simply chose not to avail himself of a ridiculously easy method of destroying the invaders.