nBSG Episode 319: "Crossroads, Part II"...

[Elessar]

2. Lampkin. He was played real well in this episode. When he first showed up I didn't really have a strong feeling of liking the character, but he finished strong and made a real impression. The last bit with the cane was a nice touch.

I forgot about this and you're right, Lampkin really does an incredible job at the end. Baltar's doing his usual ego-trip, as hypocritical as it is, and Lampkin doesn't lose it like Lee. Nope, he just snidely tells Baltar to screw off, that he's needed elsewhere ("my considerable expertise") in a polite, elegant way. He even gets in a last parting, yet supposedly consolation remark in: "I'm sure you'll land on your feet".

Loved it. It's honestly too bad that the transition out of that scene was so abrupt. In CIC, they even had a line that sounded like "now that the trial is over, we can get on with the good stuff".

[Xon]

Tigh as a humanform just doesn't make sense! He was in the old war before humanforms!

God damn it.

The Cylons are based of near clark-tech left over from the Lords of Kobot, so why not?

[Xon]

Speaking of Earth, did anyone manage to guess how far the Fleet is from Earth now with the zoom out and in?

The fleet was at least 1/4 to 1/3 downspin on our spiral arm. Or a fucking long way for the Colonial fleet to travel.

[Zac Naloen]

Two things,


1. WOW. What a series finale.

2. Where can I find THAT version of all along the watchtower.

[Gil Hamilton]

<snip>

The new cylons have learned of the Original cylons (the Final Five) through their visions and revelations in the space between life and death. The Original/Final Five have also existed among the humans since time immemorial, waiting for this particular moment in time. And of course they have a copy of each of themselves among the humans -- Tigh, Tori, Anders, Tyrol, and Starbuck.

<snip>

Snipped much of your theory, but I wanted to emphasize this, because Caprica Six already has explained that the 12 Cylon models were created following the Cylon War. Whatever schism happened between the Final Five and the other seven almost certainly happened afterwards. Remember, Cylons, for what ever else they are, are machines. The identities of the Final Five could have be lost them simply by all of them getting hit with a bit of programming that specifically forbids them from knowing who the Final Five are. The information could be in there, but it's sealed so that they can't be conscious of it (sort of like how in the book Neuromancer, Wintermute couldn't know his own name or unlock parts of his memory).

This makes a fair bit of sense given what we've seen Three do. In order to access the part of her memory that was locked off, she had to undergo the download process. What if it went something like this? During when she was being uploaded to a new body, her core consciousness was uploaded first, allowing her to be conscious as her memories were being written. Thus, what we were seeing and she was experiencing subjectively was her own attempts to catch a peek at the data pertaining to the Final Five as it was being written but before it was partitioned off to where she couldn't experience it. Each time she got a bit more of it and was storing those snippets of information in memory she could access, but because there is a prohibition on that data as stuff she can't know, she was really having a hard time wrapping her brain around it and was making her unstable, even as it was corrupting the seal on that data.

Given what hard work it is for the Cylons to even glimpse that data, if the nature and identity of the Final Five were made forbidden to the Cylons by some computer juju, then it could have happened yesterday as easily as a millennium as far as the Cylons are concerned. They could stare one right in the eye and not recognize them, even if they saw them yesterday because they can't.

Personally, I think that the schism in the Cylons was an organized plot by the 13th tribe, which returned and encountered the Cylons after they fled human space following the last war and modified them into the humalons. The 13th tribe, knowing the Scrolls of Pythia and all that, loaded them up with the same sort of symbolism they loaded up the Colonists with covertly. All the prophecy stuff and Starbuck's Special Destiny and all that are orchestrated by them.

[xerex]

I'm going to agree with those who think the power outage is some sort of defense mechanism. and I think we'll find that the Cylons have also been affected and are still floating dead in space.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette printed an interview today with Moore. Spoilers and Truth:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm

Executive producer Ron Moore discusses thrilling 'Galactica' cliffhanger

Fans of Sci Fi Channel's "Battlestar Galactica" are no doubt filled with questions this morning following last night's third season, cliffhanger finale. (If you didn't watch last night's episode: SPOILERS AHEAD)

Four of the last five unidentified Cylons were revealed to be patriotic Colonials, characters viewers thought were human -- Col. Tigh (Michael Hogan), Chief Tyrol (Aaron Douglas), Anders (Michael Trucco) and presidential aid Tori (Rekha Sharma). And in the final moments, Starbuck (Kara Thrace), recently presumed dead when her Viper shattered into a million pieces, appeared to Apollo (Jamie Bamber), and she seemed to be very much alive. Starbuck said she'd been to Earth -- Galactica's much-sought destination -- and will show them the way.

With so many questions raised, it was time to seek answers from the main man in the know: "Battlestar" executive producer Ron Moore. In our chat last week, he also discussed plans for a direct-to-DVD movie and the state of the proposed prequel series, "Caprica."

Rob: Why did music cause these newly-revealed Cylons to discover they were indeed Cylons. Sharon didn't hear music when she figured it out in season one.

Ron Moore: It's more that they arrived at a certain point in space and they were made aware of who they are. The music manifests a dawning awareness. These are four of the final five, which puts them in a separate category from everybody else. There are reasons for that I can't really get into. We'll be playing out those plot lines for quite a while.

R: Now there are two half-human, half-Cylon babies -- Hera and the Chief and Cally's child. Will you be dealing with that?

RM: Oh, yeah.

R: Are there other half-human, half-Cylon children?

RM: You never know.

R: We've never seen a child in Cylon society. Am I right that there are no pure Cylon children?

RM: That's true.

R: So Tigh and the others were put into the Colonial fleet as adults?

RM: I don't know if it's that simple. I think it's something that goes back pretty far. A lot of the specifics of the back story of how this came about will reveal itself over the course of the next season. Those four are trying to figure out their own story. They don't really understand what this all means. Tigh's been in two wars and wondering, how could this be? A part of next season's storylines will uncover how they came to be who they are and the specifics of that.

R: Why did Roslin have a mental connection to Sharon and Six and not the other Cylons on board?

RM: They are fundamentally different Cylons.

R: A friend of mine wonders about why even most of the Cylons don't know the identities of the final five. She thinks it may have something to do with the humans who created the Cylons or perhaps even the God the Cylons worship.

RM: Those are pretty good possibilities.

R: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories.

R: Are these four all full Cylons?

RM: Yes, but they are different fundamentally.

R: Will we meet the final fifth Cylon next season?

RM: I think so.

R: When the Cylon D'Anna (Lucy Lawless) glimpsed the face of one of the final five, she said, "I'm sorry." Since D'Anna tortured Tigh, can we presume she saw his face?

RM: We're developing a storyline dealing with D'Anna and what she saw and who she was talking to. We haven't talked to [Lucy Lawless] about it and she was just cast in a pilot, which makes it tricky. But it's something we would like to look at.

R: So did Apollo really see Starbuck or was he hallucinating?

RM: This, too, is a fine question. It's exactly the kind of thing I want people to chew over the next few months.

R:Is Katee Sackhoff, who plays Starbuck, signed for next season?

RM: Yes.

R: Where do the plans stand for a direct-to-DVD movie that flashes back to tell more of the story of the Pegasus and Admiral Cain (Michelle Forbes)?

RM: It's really just a couple of extra episodes for the fourth season that will air earlier than the rest of the season, sometime in the fall. They'll come out on DVD the next day.

R: Which cast members are in these two, one-hour extra episodes?

RM: The whole cast.

R: Why flashbacks?

RM: There is a tie from these episodes into the events in season four. ... It's an opportunity to set up something for the fourth season that had not been told to the audience and that the characters themselves hadn't realized, and then go into the fourth season.

R: Where does "Caprica" stand? Sci Fi Channel was supposed to make a decision about it this month.

RM: It's now back in development. They're not picking it up as a pilot at the moment. They might want to pick it up as a movie or as a DVD release. No one is saying it's over, but we're also not going forward at this moment. Right now it's on the back burner.

R: Why give Roslin (Mary McDonnell) cancer again?

RM: Even at the time when the cancer went away, I think I made statements to the press that it can always return. I've always seen it as a key part of her character and who she is. Mary and I had extensive conversations about it. Roslin was defined by that. The first moment we meet her, she gets the cancer diagnosis. But in the course of the first two seasons it became clear we couldn't maintain her illness in the same way. Part of her character is the dying leader. It has a Moses quality, the dying leader who's fated not to make it all the way to the Promised Land.

We've moved very strongly into the show's third act of the series and the end is in front of us in some fashion, regardless of how long it takes us to get there. We're moving into the final chapters, and Laura's cancer should return as a signpost on the road that says, you're getting closer because the prophesy is coming true. The prophecy says, "a dying leader."

R: Will we ever see Galactica reach Earth? I'm nervous because of what happened on the original series when they reached Earth and the show became "Galactica 1980."

RM: We're dusting off the flying motorcycles, man. We have some great ideas for those babies.

I think the series has a built-in ending. The series is about the search for Earth and when the time comes, I fully expect we will resolve that one way or another. You get to Earth and what might you find? Is it really their home? You've been promising the audience that end point from the beginning, so you're duty-bound to go there when you end it.

R: So have you started to formulate an endgame? Last week, Sci Fi Channel announced season four will be 22 hours. Will that be it?

RM: We have to know at some point. We're scripting the beginning of season four. I know how many chapters are left in the series and it will come up in this fourth season kind of quickly where we'll have to decide whether this is the last season. The network has made it clear they will take their cues from us if we say we're ready to end the show. [Executive producer] David [Eick] and I have conversations about that and we're pretty close to a decision.

R: And you'll have to decide long before the show returns for the fourth season next year, right?

RM: The decision has nothing to do with next year's ratings. It's first and foremost a creative decision. ... I have two chapters left in my head and I can see those being of different lengths. ... The question of how many episodes is the best route to get there and deciding how much do we want to go out now and end strong and how much do we want to try to extend it because we all love it and go for another year. It's an emotional/creative conversation that David and I have almost daily as we muddle through it all.

R: So this won't be "Farscape" where the series ends on a cliffhanger?

RM: It's very important to me not to do that. It's something we've talked about all along. We want to go out on our own terms and decide when our story ends. We wouldn't want to be in a situation where the story is not completed in the way we want to. ...

R: So you're going to have to decide whether or not to end it in season four or ask for another batch of episodes in which to wrap the story up.

RM: I think we would probably not go to them [and ask for more episodes] unless we were pretty sure they would give them to us.

R: Will the decision to end the show have anything to do with you and David embarking on other projects? I know he has the "Bionic Woman" remake for NBC and you're writing a pilot for FX.

RM: Not really. It's a separate track. It's not like those things are pulling our focus so much that we have to kill 'Battlestar' to pursue them. We have so much invested on a personal level, on a creative level, and it's such a special show, I can't imagine any of the things we're working on we'd rather do. 'Galactica' comes first and everything else plays catch up, which makes for an interesting home life.

R: Not to give away plot points, but what themes can fans expect in season four next year?

RM: It's about new alliances and broken alliances among the panoply of our characters within the rag tag fleet and without. Different allegiances in terms of loyalties, relationships broken and some new ones formed. All the pieces line up in different ways than they have heretofore.

Rob's call: The producers had better make the decision to end "Galactica" in these final 22 hours, because given the show's low ratings, Sci Fi Channel isn't going to give them more episodes. As it is, a fourth season of 22 hours is hugely generous. I hope Moore and company see that as the gift that it is and give the show and its fans the proper ending due them.

[CaptJodan]

Well......that's interesting.

Sounds like Moore is setting them up to actually be four of the five Cylons.

[Turin]

Snipped much of your theory, but I wanted to emphasize this, because Caprica Six already has explained that the 12 Cylon models were created following the Cylon War. Whatever schism happened between the Final Five and the other seven almost certainly happened afterwards.

Are we certain of this? I seem to recall her saying the cylons took human form after the Cylon War. Not necessarily that all 12 cylon models were created after the Cylon War. If the Final Five pre-exist the cylons entirely, the new cylons may not be aware of that. I like your Neuromancer-style theory (one of my favorite books), but it implies that the human-form cylons were created by some unknown third party that programmed them the way they are now, rather than having evolved from the existing forms. It adds an unknown term. Occam's Razor and all, you know?

Remember, Cylons, for what ever else they are, are machines.

I'm not convinced this is really the case. Terms like "downloaded" and silica pathways" are thrown around by the characters, but they are physically identical to humans in nearly every conceivable way. They have compatible DNA, for crying out loud. They appear to have "souls" that make the leap between bodies -- there's no understandable mechanism behind the transition, unless you're claiming that Gina was able to download her entire consciousness in the microseconds span of time it took for a nuclear device she was sitting by to vaporize her. Apparently they (or something very similar to them) can project themselves into the minds of other people. What possible mechanism is there?

[phongn]

Bear McCreary shares his thoughts on the music of this episode.

[Sidewinder]

Moore's statement that Tigh, Tyrol, Anders, and Tori are all full Cylons negated a theory I had, that they-- with the exception of Tigh-- and Starbuck are human-Cylon hybrids.

Seriously, if they were full Cylons, why didn't the other seven realize that when Tigh was imprisoned? Wouldn't they medically examine Tigh, e.g., to make sure he doesn't have diseases that the humanoid Cylons could contract? (Yes, I know the Cylons thought they were immune to disease in the episode where Baltar finds the probe, and were shocked when bacteria/viruses in the probe infected them, but to not perform such an exam says, "We're incompetent jailers.") It shocks me that the Cylons themselves don't have a Cylon detector.

My current idea is that the Cylons fought a civil war shortly after the 12 wer created, and that the Final Five aren't mentioned because of this reason. (It makes sense the other seven would delete the Final Five's persona from the databases on their resurrection ships, and vice versa. Lucy Lawless' character was catching glimpses of the Final Five when data from their transmissions was intercepted by the resurrection ship, but this data was quickly deleted from the ship's database.) In other words, there is NO communication between the seven Cylons and the Final Five, much less coordination.

Of course, Moore still hasn't answered who the fuck is the Cylon god. Maybe it's a computer left behind by the human 13th tribe, which the Cylons recovered as they were searching for a homeworld.

[Netko]

Ok, remember when I said back in the Starbuck-goes-crazy-and-(now)-not-so-much-dies ep that if they brought her back it would be a definite jumping the shark moment? Yeah, I think that was and is valid. The show has been meandering and slowly losing its soul for the better part of season 3 (ever since after New Caprica). Just take a look at the mini, 33, or hell, almost any ep in season 1 and this psychedelic mindtrip crap. That Moore admits he decided on Tigh and co being Cylons only this season pretty much seals the deal - you simply do not manufacture that sort of big reveal without at least somewhat pissing on the character up until that point and creating continuity problems. Its one thing if you can go back and say, yeah, I see how that can be the case, its quite significantly another to suddenly declare them Cylons. Its cheating the viewers in a sense.

Even beyond the plot problems, the structure of the show took a really bad turn for the worst. It went from a drama with a strong military, political and most of all (comparatively) realistic elements in the mini/season one and two to BSG LJ and trippy hippy gods and destinies and premonitions, where people can take out a Viper just cause its needed by the plot despite not being an active pilot. Can you imagine how many people had to say, yeah, no problem Lee, you just go ahead! Adama was asking who was flying that thing! Can you imagine that scene is season 1? I certainly can't. We had an early indication that they aren't going to bother that much with such trivial details back when Lee headed over as the marine detachment commander onto that dying basestar.

The political system was explored minimally this season compared to previously (whatever happened to Zarek?).

Dammit, this was my favorite currently running show to watch until this season and they mostly turned it all to shit.

All in all, I'm still going to watch BSG, but unless they come up with one fucking good turnaround and fix the mess they put the show in, I'm dialing my expectations way way lower then they are currently.

[Teebs]

It shocks me that the Cylons themselves don't have a Cylon detector.

Why would the cylons want or need one when they know each other and don't seem to have any pressing need to seek out the final give?

[Cincinnatus]

Seriously, if they were full Cylons, why didn't the other seven realize that when Tigh was imprisoned? Wouldn't they medically examine Tigh, e.g., to make sure he doesn't have diseases that the humanoid Cylons could contract? (Yes, I know the Cylons thought they were immune to disease in the episode where Baltar finds the probe, and were shocked when bacteria/viruses in the probe infected them, but to not perform such an exam says, "We're incompetent jailers.") It shocks me that the Cylons themselves don't have a Cylon detector.

Why would they need one? They already know who all the Seven are, and are forbiden from finding out the identities of the Final Five. I doubt they'd ever suspect they were in the Colonial fleet.

[Sidewinder]

It shocks me that the Cylons themselves don't have a Cylon detector.

Why would the cylons want or need one when they know each other and don't seem to have any pressing need to seek out the final give?

To prevent friendly fire, e.g., have Cylon detectors built into the Centurions and Raiders to prevent the non-humanoid Cylons from shooting at the humanoid Cylons. (You can't expect a Centurion to recognize Six based on visual data only, right? What if Six was wearing a helmet? What if she suffered from facial injuries? What if she's taken cover behind a wall because some Colonials are shooting at her? A Centurion needs some other method of recognizing the humanoid Cylons, so why not a Cylon detector?)

[Turin]

Even beyond the plot problems, the structure of the show took a really bad turn for the worst. It went from a drama with a strong military, political and most of all (comparatively) realistic elements in the mini/season one and two to BSG LJ and trippy hippy gods and destinies and premonitions, where people can take out a Viper just cause its needed by the plot despite not being an active pilot. Can you imagine how many people had to say, yeah, no problem Lee, you just go ahead! Adama was asking who was flying that thing! Can you imagine that scene is season 1? I certainly can't. We had an early indication that they aren't going to bother that much with such trivial details back when Lee headed over as the marine detachment commander onto that dying basestar.

The political system was explored minimally this season compared to previously (whatever happened to Zarek?).

Not to pick on you specifically, Netko, but this sort of thing is exactly what the fuck is wrong with science fiction audiences.

Who gives a flying rat's ass that it was Lee that went over onto the dying basestar and he's not a marine commander? You want them to send over a bunch of no-name characters we don't give two shits about? Yeah, that would be fucking dramatic. Why not just say "oh yeah, we sent some guys over and there were dead cylons there" in dialog if you're not going to have the protagonists involved in some way? Does the fact that Lee really shouldn't have been able to just jump in the cockpit of a viper pull you out of the moment so much that you don't understand the importance from a plot and character standpoint of having him do this? Yeah, I like things to be realistic. I also don't mind a little bending of reality if it makes for some decent fucking TV.

Holy hopping Christ on a pogo stick, this is the kind of ridiculous nitpicking shit that should make you say "yeah, that was a little odd". And then move on to talk about the real fucking plot, or at least the way the rest of the film or show was done. The way it was shot, the tightness (or lack thereof) of the dialog, the way the actors protrayed their characters, the themes in the show, or (more common on this site) "how much firepower does a Battlestar put out? or "am I weird for having Tori-Anders-me-threesome fanstasies?". What kind of uptight fuckstick gets so overwrought about this niggling sort of detail that it makes them say "well, I'm not going to watch this crap if this sort of thing continues!"? That? That's the thing that makes you not want to watch a show?!

Guess what, this show has had all the weird-ass-trippy shit from the moment that Baltar opened his eyes in 33 and saw Head-Six sitting across from him. From the moment that his repentance to the cylon God coincidentally merged with the destruction of the Olympic Carrier. Any indication to the contrary is self-deluded bullshit.

I'm not the sort of person to get so agitated about a valendamned TV show, but holy crap this sort of week-after-week idiocy in these threads is annoying the piss out of me.

[Sam Or I]

I don't see THAT big of deal of letting Apollo jump into a viper. How long has he been CAG, how many times has he saved the fleet as a pilot? Amongst the Chaos of a surprise attack when they are getting vipers into the air (space) as quick as possible, would they really question him?

Even if they did all he would have to say is that the old man recommissioned him, and pull rank. Thats not a too outrageous of a lie, that his daddy who has recommissioned him before, and gave him command of another Battlestar, would recomission him again. It is very believable, especially if you are just trying to get Vipers launched, you are not going to say "time out" to run it up the chain of command. Either they will let him fly or they will not, and chance are with everything they have went through, and with the Adama and Lee make up and break up history the chance are he is getting the Viper.

[Gil Hamilton]

Are we certain of this? I seem to recall her saying the cylons took human form after the Cylon War. Not necessarily that all 12 cylon models were created after the Cylon War. If the Final Five pre-exist the cylons entirely, the new cylons may not be aware of that. I like your Neuromancer-style theory (one of my favorite books), but it implies that the human-form cylons were created by some unknown third party that programmed them the way they are now, rather than having evolved from the existing forms. It adds an unknown term. Occam's Razor and all, you know?

Doesn't your theory add a bunch of of unknown terms as well?

Besides, the only way both the humans and the Cylons could have the same symbolism and having premonitions of each other and all that stuff is that they're both being manipulated by a common factor. Unless we are going to state that Laura Roslin actually has magic powers, then someone planted those visions for them to be later triggered and made sure that Sharon had all the right programming to get them there, with the Arrow of Apollo thing, for instance.

The 13th Tribe returning covertly and bumping into the Cylons first very much helps tidy up the situation, not making it more complicated.

I'm not convinced this is really the case. Terms like "downloaded" and silica pathways" are thrown around by the characters, but they are physically identical to humans in nearly every conceivable way. They have compatible DNA, for crying out loud. They appear to have "souls" that make the leap between bodies -- there's no understandable mechanism behind the transition, unless you're claiming that Gina was able to download her entire consciousness in the microseconds span of time it took for a nuclear device she was sitting by to vaporize her. Apparently they (or something very similar to them) can project themselves into the minds of other people. What possible mechanism is there?

The problem is that the BSG writing staff doesn't seem to care two rat's asses about whether or not they are magic robots, but they are still robots.

Besides, Gina never upload herself into a ressurection ship after she set off that nuke, remember? The ressurrection ship was destroyed by that point and she had nothing to download to. Besides, chances are if she vaped herself even with a ressurection ship near by, she wouldn't be uploaded. How can she be uploaded, after all, if her body is completely destroyed in the instant she's killed?

[NeoGoomba]

To prevent friendly fire, e.g., have Cylon detectors built into the Centurions and Raiders to prevent the non-humanoid Cylons from shooting at the humanoid Cylons. (You can't expect a Centurion to recognize Six based on visual data only, right? What if Six was wearing a helmet? What if she suffered from facial injuries? What if she's taken cover behind a wall because some Colonials are shooting at her? A Centurion needs some other method of recognizing the humanoid Cylons, so why not a Cylon detector?)

I think that the Centurians can ID the human-forms, and that it was mentioned when Athena infiltrated the Cylon base on New Caprica. They can't tell them apart, they just know not to attack, which was why she didn't have to ID herself when she was going into the base.

[Sam Or I]

And a making up excuses as why some Cylons can reproduce and some cannot, and taking away from Heras importance (or making up and excuse why this other hybrid is not as important) is not idiotic .

Okay, I'll be frank, get to what's on my mind, and say that a first-reaction hypothetical solution to the issue of Tyrol's son of simply "Cally = whore" really bothers me. I do think it's dumb, but mainly, it just bothers me.

I think a better idea is that the Final Five could be different from the Other Seven in some ways, one of them being fertility.

Ok, a rare SD.net event. I apologize for calling Cally that.

[Sam Or I]

A question, was Tyrol on the Baseship with the infected probe?

[Turin]

Doesn't your theory add a bunch of of unknown terms as well?

In fairness, yes, but they're mostly the same terms as the theory you're putting forth, so I'll just drop that point.

Besides, the only way both the humans and the Cylons could have the same symbolism and having premonitions of each other and all that stuff is that they're both being manipulated by a common factor. Unless we are going to state that Laura Roslin actually has magic powers, then someone planted those visions for them to be later triggered and made sure that Sharon had all the right programming to get them there, with the Arrow of Apollo thing, for instance.

The 13th Tribe returning covertly and bumping into the Cylons first very much helps tidy up the situation, not making it more complicated.

I'll agree with that, I'm just saying I think that the 13th Tribe are cylons (or something just like the cylons) as well, in fitting with the idea of repeated history. It helps to explain why this mysterious tribe seems to have access to abilities (such as their method of projecting) that no one else really seems to have. The other difference between our two theories is whether the newly discovered Four are part of this older group or not. That these Four are "activated" when the fleet has drawn close to another marker left by the 13th Tribe indicates to me that they are.

Besides, Gina never upload herself into a ressurection ship after she set off that nuke, remember? The ressurrection ship was destroyed by that point and she had nothing to download to.

<Smacks self in forehead> Duh, right! I'd forgotten that.

Besides, chances are if she vaped herself even with a ressurection ship near by, she wouldn't be uploaded. How can she be uploaded, after all, if her body is completely destroyed in the instant she's killed?

Well, that was my point obviously -- unless we're talking about a soul, she can't. But the cylons seem pretty cocky that they can't be killed. Not "we can't be killed, except if you nuke us." I find it hard to believe they would be that cocky, particularly when they nuked Caprica, if they didn't believe that to be the case. (I'll preemptively concede that I suppose it doesn't matter whether the cylons believe they have souls or not.)

[Lord Woodlouse]

I liked it. I like weird trippy shit so long as we're guaranteed an answer for it at some point, which I think is almost certain.

[Rye]

I thought it was fantastic, I don't know what the hell is the matter with some of the posters on here. I just can't believe I've got to wait so fucking long for some more! I just need to find a way to get the webisodes in Britain.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, I can see a couple of positives out of nBSG not being on for about nine months:

1. I won't miss an hour out of the Sunday night radio block I enjoy listening to.

2. I won't have to sit through the last 5-10 minutes of that God-awful The Dresden Files anymore...