Zinegata wrote:
You're talking about the DMZ, which has been going on for, what, 50+ years and they still actually don't know all of the North Korean weapons positions?
Because the Koreans keep building more?
And frankly, I'm sorta lost here. Just what are you trying to argue? If you build a strongpoint, it DOES become very visible. And that's with our sensors now. Wh40k features infantrymen with enough sensors that they can fight each other blind through buildings.
You can conceal such features, but ignoring the complexity of such measures, its literally a huge investment in engineering resources to do...... what?
Strong points. If your supply lines can be struck at-will by a fast moving enemy, then you must build defenses along that supply line.
So, you disperse your men along a 100 kilometer line, weakening your forces in general, allowing the enemy to concentrate and destroy you piecemeal.
Not to mention complicate your logistic network further as you now need to sustain said strongpoints, unless they aren't permament.
This isn't a smart and cheap way to do things.
Except you can't. Because the other lascannon was hidden and already blew up your tank.
Why the fuck no? The freaking Hammerhead has more guns than you do, and its range is LONGER than your lascannons. Unlike the lascannon, its mounted on a tank with more sophsicated sensors and targeting than your basic targeter. The Tau aren't idiots who just waltz around into an ambush zone.
Such a scenario can happen sure, but only idiots, or the IJN expects a perfect scenario to happen in battle.
And unlike the tabletop, the Tau railgun would be able to inflict collateral damage. Hell, its fast enough that its supposedly ionise the air and it shot through a bus.
Again, artillery exists for a reason - which is to suppress a lot of enemy fire. Plaster the area with explosives and knock out any AT positions you may have missed.
Shit. Not this again. Here's the thing. There's many ways to skin a cat. Just because the Tau don't have access to large amounts of massed artillery tubes does NOT MEAN THEY LACK THE ABILITY TO SUPPRESS ENEMY FIRE OR INTERDICT ENEMY FORCES!
The Skyray missiles show that they do have this capability, and the nice thing about a mechanised attack is that you bring your own firepower with you that's add to suppression fire on the go.
Again, recognize that the biggest battles like Operation Anaconda in the Afghan War involved something like, what, 2000 Taliban fighters?
Whereas Operation Cobra, back in World War 2 required 1,600 bombers dropping something like 8,000 lbs of bombs each? And this is on top of the artillery bombardment? (By comparison, a Hellfire has about 20 lbs of explosives)
The Tau have never demonstrated, in the fluff or on the tabletop, to deliver this amount of explosives necessary to suppress fixed positions on a large scale (large as in you're fighting actual divisions, not 2,000 guys in the mountains).
Their doctrine in fact specifically frowns against delivering massed firepower.
Short answer from the tactics textbook? Deliver a short sharp barrage that the Tau can unleash due to their Skyrays along with airpower, aimed at disrupting C3, interdiction of movement and destroying vulnerable strongpoints, if not, to suppress them, add suppression fire from the mechanised elements pouring into the position and overrun them to mount a direct assault.
We actually seen the Tau do bits and pieces of this, although the example I'm thinking of is a Cadian armoured regiment in the comics.
if the position is so well entrenched and deep that this can't be done at all, simply avoid or just lay siege to it. Ground in the Wh40k context is worthless. Terrain is only as important as what you plan to do with it. The Tau can simply choose not to advance and attack. IF the Imperium chooses to advance with a pure infantry attack supported by artillery and etc? They're going to suffer severely due to the mobility, range and firepower of the Tau army.
No, I am saying that to fight an enemy with superior mobility, you need to force them to fight a static battle. All the elements of an army still need to be present - infantry, armour, etc - but the point is that the Tau are forced to fight pitched battles at every turn.
How do you plan to do that?
Here's the thing. An army that's as mobile as the Tau, along with Wh40k logistics has the ability to choose which battle they wish to fight and when. Anything you do to actually force them to battle does not require you to reduce your own assets for mobility.
Wrong. Again, this is just idiotic assumptions based on the Tau having artillery weapons, which they don't. If you cannot admit that a Hellfire missile shooter is not the same as being able to deliver massed artillery, then we have nothing to talk about. You are simply plainly claiming the Tau have capabilities they do not have - heck even Tau doctrine says out loud that they don't employ these kinds of weapons.
I'm NOT. I'm simply pointing out that just because the Tau don't have massed artilery tubes doesn't mean they DON"T have the abilities to suppress enemy movement! God damn it, its especially mentioned that the Tau uses their airpower to interdict enemy forces, and such a capability means they can do this, even if we ignore their direct fire abilities!
You're too fucking fixated on the form rather than the capabilities.
My God man, have you never heard of how anti-tank guns (bigger and less powerful than a lascannon) accounted for more tank losses than any other source in World War 2? Or how about that little fiasco during the Yom Kippur War when the Israelis tried to charge entrenched infantry with modern ATGMs?
And as I already pointed out, just because the Germans had better AT abilities didn't mean the US and Soviet forces simply abandoned mobile warfare.
This is an argument for combined arms, not for abandoning mobile warfare. The sthick here is that you're arguing that the Tau is deficient in combined arms, in the sense that they're unable to actually kill large numbers of infantry efficiently.
That's a rubbish claim, back it up. You DON"T need explosive rounds to kill infantry, not with Tau weaponery.
Finally, here's a challenge for you: How exactly would you win the Taros campaign with mechanized forces? Chase after the Tau Hunter Cadres in the desert?
Use the Space Marines and orbital support to gain air supremacy by hitting the bases, with air supremacy, you actually know where the enemy is moving at any time, especially in a desert environment. That means you not only can pound them to bits using airpower, you can use your landers and shtick to land strong blocking forces while you sweep in to kill the enemy.
The only thing that prevented this was some air defence network coordinated with Tau interceptors....
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
.
