Enlightenment's B5 bashing

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-01-11 01:30am

Keevan_Colton wrote:I'll add my two cents all the same....

I did my higher english work on how Bab 5 is Lord of the Rings in space....there are a lot of similarities.....take the over story for one, the shadows and the vorlons.....

An evil that was defeated in a great war a long time before (rather common since tolkien....)
The agents of darkness abroad in the land....
Gandalf, who could be considered analagous to Kosh or Sheridan at times.....particularly at the point where they visit Zha'dum (Moria - Dwarf stronghold og Khaza'dum)....where they fall down a big (seemingly bottomless hole) to save everyone else (The fellowships / to crash nuke into planet and fuck shadows).....and there are thought dead and meet a creature from the begining of time (Lorien/Balrog).....

The whole war with earth can be compared to the return to the shire aswell.....once you pass that then you are into somewhat new territory....

Anyway...I can dig out more of my old project stuff if anyone can be bothered reading it.....

The balrog made an appearance in one episode, Sheridan and the security crew killed it with ppgs.
And if you go over the episode with the technomagi then you can here a specific Gandalf quote. The three major literary influences on B5 are Tolkien, Arthurian ledgend, and the bible. I hope you didn't skim over arthur, michael york would be very angry, as would the red knight!

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-11 01:37am

SyntaxVorlon wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:I'll add my two cents all the same....

I did my higher english work on how Bab 5 is Lord of the Rings in space....there are a lot of similarities.....take the over story for one, the shadows and the vorlons.....

An evil that was defeated in a great war a long time before (rather common since tolkien....)
The agents of darkness abroad in the land....
Gandalf, who could be considered analagous to Kosh or Sheridan at times.....particularly at the point where they visit Zha'dum (Moria - Dwarf stronghold og Khaza'dum)....where they fall down a big (seemingly bottomless hole) to save everyone else (The fellowships / to crash nuke into planet and fuck shadows).....and there are thought dead and meet a creature from the begining of time (Lorien/Balrog).....

The whole war with earth can be compared to the return to the shire aswell.....once you pass that then you are into somewhat new territory....

Anyway...I can dig out more of my old project stuff if anyone can be bothered reading it.....
The balrog made an appearance in one episode, Sheridan and the security crew killed it with ppgs.
And if you go over the episode with the technomagi then you can here a specific Gandalf quote. The three major literary influences on B5 are Tolkien, Arthurian ledgend, and the bible. I hope you didn't skim over arthur, michael york would be very angry, as would the red knight!

He would indeed, but my courseworks main focus was tolkien....the quote is the "It is foolish to meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger" one.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-01-11 01:39am

understandably
But is it 'subtle' or 'subtile' I know one of them means clever.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-11 04:48am

I like B5 and it doesnt bother me what Enlightnements saying. I doubt this needed its own thread.

Besides which, its not the first time JMS has been mocked for something. I've seen Mike mock his scientific knowledge (like this little tidbit):

Re: "magictech"...I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who pointed out, "Any
sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

You wanna go argue with Clarke, feel free.

Lemme just make one point here. In the handful of decades between the
discovery of the atom, and its use at Hiroshima, we learned how to blow up
substantial portions of the planet and render it uninhabitable. But it
would've taken a lot of them, hundreds, to do the job. In the 50 years
since then, with the development of thermonuclear weaponry, the job is
even easier. It's been reckoned that you'd only need about 75 really
decent sized thermonuclear detonations to render the entire continental
United States dead and uninhabitable.

The shadows and the vorlons are *millions* of years ahead of us. We're
talking differences in technology that are orders of magnitude beyond what
we can hope to comprehend.

I think a planet killer eminently achievable.

For that matter, considering some people who have been openly bashed on this site (Robert Brown comes to mind, although I don't say that his opinions are ones I agree with - and not that I agree with some of you dumbasses for your "opinions" of him - Mike might be the only exception since I have witnessed what has gone on between him and Rob.) You were all perfectly entitled to EXPRESS your opinions because you disagreed with him, but by that same token Enlightenment is free to vent his opinions of JMS, no matter how unfair you think it.

Mocking stupidity is part and parcel of this forum, but what one considers stupidity tends to be highly subjective.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-11 04:49am

And just to point something out, in the above quote JMS said that it would only take us "hundreds" of nukes for us to render the planet uninhabitable - and that was BEFORE thermonuclear weapons!.

Again, that IS stupid.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-11 04:51am

Just keep me out of your statement Macleod, I've never criticised or attacked enlightenment on this issue, I just wanted to know why he says it, it's been going on long, and I've just gotten more curious about it.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-11 05:04am

And yes, now I know what to search for, this is interesting reading.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-01-11 05:28am

What does it matter? The "mockery of stupid people" is part and parcel of SD.net since its inception. Is he somehow supposed to keep quiet about his "opinions" just because someone doenst like it? I daresay I've been accused of idiocy (and been called an idiot, and called any number of people an idiot on here myself.. its a matter of viewpoint.)

We bash lots of stupid shows (andromeda has been bashed, Trek of course.. SW holiday special, movies, etc.) Is there some reason B5 should be held "holy" and immune from this? Its an excellent show and sometimes its well written (I dont agree with Enlightenment in that regard, naturally) but it gets OFTEN accused of being a scientifically realistic show. AT this time, I laugh my ass off. (ORganic tech, those huge-ass engines on starfuries, etc...)

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-01-11 05:52am

Connor MacLeod wrote:What does it matter? The "mockery of stupid people" is part and parcel of SD.net since its inception. Is he somehow supposed to keep quiet about his "opinions" just because someone doenst like it? I daresay I've been accused of idiocy (and been called an idiot, and called any number of people an idiot on here myself.. its a matter of viewpoint.)

I've not said he should stop either, if thats what you're implying.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-01-11 02:52pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:I'll add my two cents all the same....

I did my higher english work on how Bab 5 is Lord of the Rings in space....there are a lot of similarities.....take the over story for one, the shadows and the vorlons.....

An evil that was defeated in a great war a long time before (rather common since tolkien....)
The agents of darkness abroad in the land....
Gandalf, who could be considered analagous to Kosh or Sheridan at times.....particularly at the point where they visit Zha'dum (Moria - Dwarf stronghold og Khaza'dum)....where they fall down a big (seemingly bottomless hole) to save everyone else (The fellowships / to crash nuke into planet and fuck shadows).....and there are thought dead and meet a creature from the begining of time (Lorien/Balrog).....

The whole war with earth can be compared to the return to the shire aswell.....once you pass that then you are into somewhat new territory....

Anyway...I can dig out more of my old project stuff if anyone can be bothered reading it.....

And the Rangers, the White Star, and sayings from LoTR like "expect me when you see me", and "don't meddle in the affairs of wizards...". All the LoTR references in B5 vere done as a tribute, just like the multiple The Prisoner references in season 1 and the star liner Asimov. JMS got a character named after a SF author, for chrissakes! All the LotR similarities are not plaugarism, they are a tribute to Tolkien.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2003-01-11 03:25pm

Just keep me out of your statement Macleod, I've never criticised or attacked enlightenment on this issue, I just wanted to know why he says it, it's been going on long, and I've just gotten more curious about it.

me, too I never really minded criticizing the shows for it's various, it is just I just got curious over his level of it

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-11 03:31pm

I've never noticed Enlightenment to engage in any particularly egregious B5-bashing, myself. Sure, he often speaks of it in less than complimentary terms, but I don't know if I'd call that "bashing". I don't see every thread on the board, but unless there's something I've missed, I don't see how this warrants a separate thread. Any time someone creates a thread with another member's name in the title (in a negative light), I think there needs to be some fairly strong justification for it.

Enlightenment-alternate · Post by **Enlightenment-alternate** » 2003-01-11 03:46pm

Darth Wong wrote:Sure, he often speaks of it in less than complimentary terms, but I don't know if I'd call that "bashing". I don't see every thread on the board, but unless there's something I've missed, I don't see how this warrants a separate thread.

The bashing thing is more a matter of spillover from prior discussions I've had on SB rather than anything that's happened here. I don't have a problem with being singled out for a separate thread on this; indeed I offered to start a separate thread about my view of B5 specifically to take the discussion out of the 'B5 babes' thread.

My two cents.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-11 03:48pm

Why do you have an alternate account?

EDIT: Argh, I just noticed the explanation in your sig. Never mind.