Mimbari- pussies?

[Darth Wong]

The Minbari represent the Israelites.
The Vorlons represent God.
The Shadows represent Satan.
The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

The Minbari weren't pussies so much as assholes who looked for any excuse to scream that their enemies are the bad guys, not them (even though they're genocidal maniacs). Sound familiar?

[jaeger115]

The Minbari represent the Israelites.
The Vorlons represent God.
The Shadows represent Satan.
The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

The Minbari weren't pussies so much as assholes who looked for any excuse to scream that their enemies are the bad guys, not them (even though they're genocidal maniacs). Sound familiar?

I like your analogy. The Vorlons represent God because of their desire for obedience (would I say mindless?) and the Shadows represent Satan because of their support for chaos and anarchy. Not surprising since the Minbari worked for the Vorlons and the humans worked partially for the shadows (clark did, but sheridan worked for the vorlons)!

Ahhh... it all fits in place.

[jaeger115]

Using this analogy, can Sheridan be referred to as Jesus Christ?

[neoolong]

Using this analogy, can Sheridan be referred to as Jesus Christ?

Not really because he tells the Vorlons to shove it too.


Uh, what about the rest of the First Ones? Or is that too much of a nitpick to a cool metaphor?

[jaeger115]

Uh, what about the rest of the First Ones? Or is that too much of a nitpick to a cool metaphor?

God's brothers and sisters?

[Enlightenment]

The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

Your outlook on western society is even worse than mine if you really think that. The YR were little more than a group of authoritarian, totalitarian, and fascist states with no redeeming qualities. In contrast there are at least some glimmers of civilization in real-world western 'civilization.'

[jaeger115]

The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

ummm, I thought it was a great analogy until I thought of President Clark's dictatorship.

[Darth Wong]

Modern pluralistic society is hardly as noble as we would like to think. Need I remind you that we have an aggressive superpower berating other countries for trying to develop nuclear and biological weapons while simultaneously hoarding huge stockpiles of said weapons themselves? And that this superpower has suspended the right to due process for its own citizens?

I don't see any problem with the analogy.

[The Dark]

Modern pluralistic society is hardly as noble as we would like to think. Need I remind you that we have an aggressive superpower berating other countries for trying to develop nuclear and biological weapons while simultaneously hoarding huge stockpiles of said weapons themselves? And that this superpower has suspended the right to due process for its own citizens?

I don't see any problem with the analogy.

And I was starting to feel optimistic again until I read this. Yeah, our government's a bunch of bastards right now. I'm just hoping I'll be able to influence it slightly from within (though probably not; being on this board's given me too much (un)common sense).

[Enlightenment]

Need I remind you that we have an aggressive superpower berating other countries for trying to develop nuclear and biological weapons while simultaneously hoarding huge stockpiles of said weapons themselves? And that this superpower has suspended the right to due process for its own citizens?

The US isn't quite in the same league as Clarke's bunch just quite yet. If Shrubby cancels the 2004 elections, takes formal control over the media, or orders the security forces to shoot protestors, then he's on par with Clarke. Until then, however, Shrubby is just an idiot who stole an election and developed delusions of grandure.

Nor within western civilization do I see any nation peer to the Centauri 'republic,' an absolute monarchy that makes a habit out openly practicing slavery. Indeed, there is a distinct lack of dictatorships and absolute monarchies in western civilization when compared to the B5 YR.

[Darth Wong]

The US isn't quite in the same league as Clarke's bunch just quite yet. If Shrubby cancels the 2004 elections, takes formal control over the media, or orders the security forces to shoot protestors, then he's on par with Clarke. Until then, however, Shrubby is just an idiot who stole an election and developed delusions of grandure.

No, but as I said, that's who they're supposed to represent. Don't you think that JMS was trying to make a point about the US with his portrayal of the EA?

Nor within western civilization do I see any nation peer to the Centauri 'republic,' an absolute monarchy that makes a habit out openly practicing slavery. Indeed, there is a distinct lack of dictatorships and absolute monarchies in western civilization when compared to the B5 YR.

Actually, at the time the age of western pluralism began, several centuries ago, slavery was widely practiced and absolute monarchies were common.

[Enlightenment]

No, but as I said, that's who they're supposed to represent. Don't you think that JMS was trying to make a point about the US with his portrayal of the EA?

It's certainly possible but given what we've all seen of JMS' understanding of the real world it's a stretch to assume he had a point to make in the first place.

Actually, at the time the age of western pluralism began, several centuries ago, slavery was widely practiced and absolute monarchies were common.

Yah, but in your post you said modern. The social level of the YR is certainly quite close to the social level of the great powers during the age of empires but that time period isn't part of the modern, contemporary, world of this century.

[MKSheppard]

Need I remind you that we have an aggressive superpower berating other countries for trying to develop nuclear and biological weapons while simultaneously hoarding huge stockpiles of said weapons themselves?

I don't see any problem with the analogy.

Why don't you STFU, Wong. Congress has directed the US Military
to destroy all Chemical weapons stockpiles by 2007, and we destroyed
all of our Bio weapons in the 70s....

[m112880]

Vympel wrote:
The Dark wrote:
OT, but no M1s were destroyed by enemy fire in Desert Storm (according to Cpt. Seifert, my American Military History professor). They may have gotten Bradleys, but not Abrams.


Untrue. What he probably meant was no M1 crews died by enemy fire. Those two M1 crews were unscathed, but their tanks were killed.

Adams tanks were shot but they were all ably to be fixed.

[Stormbringer]

No, but as I said, that's who they're supposed to represent. Don't you think that JMS was trying to make a point about the US with his portrayal of the EA?

It's certainly possible but given what we've all seen of JMS' understanding of the real world it's a stretch to assume he had a point to make in the first place.

JMS has repeatedly said the Earth Alliance is analogy to any number of police states. It's not meant to respresent one but all of them. Even you can't deny that. It's a point he's made any number of time.

Actually, at the time the age of western pluralism began, several centuries ago, slavery was widely practiced and absolute monarchies were common.

Yah, but in your post you said modern. The social level of the YR is certainly quite close to the social level of the great powers during the age of empires but that time period isn't part of the modern, contemporary, world of this century.

And there are still any number of absolute dictatorships, some dictatorships and lots of thug states. There are plenty of totalitarian states even now.

[Enlightenment]

And there are still any number of absolute dictatorships, some dictatorships and lots of thug states. There are plenty of totalitarian states even now.

Not among modern pluralistic--western--society. The dictatorships and thug states are throwbacks, not parts of modern society.

[Stormbringer]

And there are still any number of absolute dictatorships, some dictatorships and lots of thug states. There are plenty of totalitarian states even now.

Not among modern pluralistic--western--society. The dictatorships and thug states are throwbacks, not parts of modern society.

There are plenty of dictators in modern society. China, Russia, and any number of first world nations have Totalitarion dictatorships. And Mike's analogy doesn't limit it to western society.

[SirNitram]

Need I remind you that we have an aggressive superpower berating other countries for trying to develop nuclear and biological weapons while simultaneously hoarding huge stockpiles of said weapons themselves?

I don't see any problem with the analogy.

Why don't you STFU, Wong. Congress has directed the US Military
to destroy all Chemical weapons stockpiles by 2007, and we destroyed
all of our Bio weapons in the 70s....

And everyone was supposed to get rid of their stockpiles of Mustard Gas after WWI, look how well that turned out..

[fgalkin]

The Minbari represent the Israelites.
The Vorlons represent God.
The Shadows represent Satan.
The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

The Minbari weren't pussies so much as assholes who looked for any excuse to scream that their enemies are the bad guys, not them (even though they're genocidal maniacs). Sound familiar?

I deeply resent this analogy. Israelites are not genocidal maniacs, no matter what some people say.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Darth Wong]

The Minbari represent the Israelites.
The Vorlons represent God.
The Shadows represent Satan.
The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

The Minbari weren't pussies so much as assholes who looked for any excuse to scream that their enemies are the bad guys, not them (even though they're genocidal maniacs). Sound familiar?

I deeply resent this analogy. Israelites are not genocidal maniacs, no matter what some people say.

The Old Testament Israelites were.

[fgalkin]

The Minbari represent the Israelites.
The Vorlons represent God.
The Shadows represent Satan.
The Younger Races represent modern pluralistic society.

The Minbari weren't pussies so much as assholes who looked for any excuse to scream that their enemies are the bad guys, not them (even though they're genocidal maniacs). Sound familiar?

I deeply resent this analogy. Israelites are not genocidal maniacs, no matter what some people say.

The Old Testament Israelites were.

Just like every other civilization at that time period.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Darth Wong]

The Old Testament Israelites were.

Just like every other civilization at that time period.

... none of which continue to trumpet the glory of those ancient slaughters in "Scriptures".

PS. The Israelites were unusually aggressive even for their era. The Romans assimilated many other religions into their own culture without difficulty, but the Israelites created endless headaches.

[fgalkin]

The Old Testament Israelites were.

Just like every other civilization at that time period.

... none of which continue to trumpet the glory of those ancient slaughters in "Scriptures".

PS. The Israelites were unusually aggressive even for their era. The Romans assimilated many other religions into their own culture without difficulty, but the Israelites created endless headaches.

I would hardly call people defending their homeland "unusually aggressive".

As for the Scriptures, the Israelis happened to survive to this day with their original culture and religion. That is why the memory of those ancienct conflicts still lives on. If, for example, the Assyrians were not assimilated up to this day, do you think that they would behave any differently?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Perinquus]

I would hardly call people defending their homeland "unusually aggressive".

Except it wasn't their homeland. It was the Canaanites' homeland. The Israelites disposessed them of it forcibly. And not content to inflict military defeats on their opponents, they had to massacre them, even the women and children. Except for the young virgins, of course, those the Israelite warriors were allowed to keep for their own delectation.

[fgalkin]

I would hardly call people defending their homeland "unusually aggressive".

Except it wasn't their homeland. It was the Canaanites' homeland. The Israelites disposessed them of it forcibly. And not content to inflict military defeats on their opponents, they had to massacre them, even the women and children. Except for the young virgins, of course, those the Israelite warriors were allowed to keep for their own delectation.

1. Where did you get that from.

2. Read the description of any ancient campaign. You will find a lot of similarities to what you have just described.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin