U Law vs. Agent Smith

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-23 08:05pm

2000AD wrote:I take it you haven't seen the trailer then?

I have, and to be quite honest it didn't really strike me as that great.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-01-23 09:23pm

namdoolb wrote:I disagree, matrix supplied the bullet-time.

It did but bullet-time is not (contrary to what Max Payne says) the slow-mo bullets, but rather the multi-camera setup used to do those little freeze-n-turn moments.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-01-24 05:28pm

This would be a very good battle, each have their own abilities unique to them,

Smith is very calculating, they stressed that throughout the entire matrix movie, where as the other agents were 'chasers' smith would calculate and try to be 1 step ahead of Neo.

U Law is extremely aggressive, easily seen in the movie, and even stressed by his fighting style 'shortest distance between two points is a straight line'

If Ulaw couldl finish smith quickly, I think he could take it, but Ulaw is human, and tires quickly, and really really starts to slow down after he takes punishment,

If smith gets some hits in, I dont think Ulaw could handle them and still win

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-24 06:16pm

Omega-13 wrote:If Ulaw couldl finish smith quickly, I think he could take it, but Ulaw is human, and tires quickly, and really really starts to slow down after he takes punishment,

Tires quickly? He ran at 50 mph without breaking a sweat after beating up a group of cops! IIRC we only see him get tired after taking a few hits from someone as strong as him. BTW there is evidence that Law is stronger than Smth, eg. Law using motorcyles as knuckledusters, and that he is faster, Aforementioned 50mph and that he dodges machine gun fire while in a cramped air vent!

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-24 09:06pm

2000AD wrote:
Omega-13 wrote:If Ulaw couldl finish smith quickly, I think he could take it, but Ulaw is human, and tires quickly, and really really starts to slow down after he takes punishment,
Tires quickly? He ran at 50 mph without breaking a sweat after beating up a group of cops! IIRC we only see him get tired after taking a few hits from someone as strong as him. BTW there is evidence that Law is stronger than Smth, eg. Law using motorcyles as knuckledusters, and that he is faster, Aforementioned 50mph and that he dodges machine gun fire while in a cramped air vent!

Well, there is that seen where he is out of it by the intail accerlation of a car. A human man handles him for a good minute afterwards. I think thats what he is talking about. His endurance seems to be the real major problem with him.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-01-24 09:15pm

The endurance is no problem with him - and yes, it was 50mph as he was overtaking cars while running. And that regular person? Wasn't that either his double, or one of the two well trained D-Cops?

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-01-24 09:42pm

None of hte cops really manhandled either. Lodecker caught him by surprise and gassed him in the eyes with a fire extinguisher then ended up getting his ass kicked and the other one didn't even manage that much.

And of course immediately after he trashed Lodecker he was able to move quick enough to keep him from triggering that suicide bomb.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-25 11:18am

In the scene in question near the begining he was hit be the car and the guy got out o the car graped him and pulled him up and was holding the guy untill they were teloported. I know Smith could really hurt the guy if he could land a punch. But he isn't in Laws legue.

And 50mph is not that good when you consider that he should of been goining a hell of alot faster than that. The average man can run 5 mph or so, and he is suposed to like half of over a 100 people. 50 people should give him the running speed of 250 mph. Heck even 3 mph average human speed (which it isn't) would be 150 mph. Bad endurance is one of the more likly explanations.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2003-01-25 01:02pm

Darth_Shinji wrote:And 50mph is not that good when you consider that he should of been goining a hell of alot faster than that. The average man can run 5 mph or so, and he is suposed to like half of over a 100 people. 50 people should give him the running speed of 250 mph. Heck even 3 mph average human speed (which it isn't) would be 150 mph. Bad endurance is one of the more likly explanations.

Hello? Basic physical laws? Hello?

The theoretical running speed (if it could be calculated) would not be done like that.

first... Humans can sprint at about 15mph, 10mph is a good running speed, 5mph is jogging speed.

Second you fool, the relationship between propulsive force and top speed is not linearly proportional because air resistance due to velocity does not follow a linear pattern.

Third, I think it's obvious that some kind of diminishing returns comes into play because he did not display the strength of some 60 odd people.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-25 01:55pm

namdoolb wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:And 50mph is not that good when you consider that he should of been goining a hell of alot faster than that. The average man can run 5 mph or so, and he is suposed to like half of over a 100 people. 50 people should give him the running speed of 250 mph. Heck even 3 mph average human speed (which it isn't) would be 150 mph. Bad endurance is one of the more likly explanations.
Hello? Basic physical laws? Hello?

The theoretical running speed (if it could be calculated) would not be done like that.

first... Humans can sprint at about 15mph, 10mph is a good running speed, 5mph is jogging speed.

Second you fool, the relationship between propulsive force and top speed is not linearly proportional because air resistance due to velocity does not follow a linear pattern.

Third, I think it's obvious that some kind of diminishing returns comes into play because he did not display the strength of some 60 odd people.

And does this take away from me point or actaully add to it? Thank you for pointing out that the max speed is actaully higher. And are you actaully going to show how velocity would make him go only 50, or was that just to throw people off the fact that he sould of been going faster than 50? If you want, post the formula and I'll do it. Just don't say something without explaining how that is supose to alter what was said.

And dimishing works too. Explains why his actaully toughness is so weak compared to what he can do.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-25 02:12pm

Going by the basic premis of the movie he is weak because he is absorbing the ENERGY of the people. This means that he has the power to run faster, punch with more force, speed up his reactions, etc. But his physical propeties stay the same. His bones don't get super hard or anything, therefor he still has human weaknesses like ,for eg, getting hit by a car will hurt!

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2003-01-25 02:12pm

The formula is actualy rather complex... and we probably lack the figures for it.

However..... if you want, we can but try

The basic formula for determining Acceleration is F=MA
Where:
F is the propulsive force
M is the mass of the object
A is the resultant acceleration

When using this formula to determine maximum velocity, F becomes the net propulsive force. (the propulsive force minus any forces working against it).
Obviously when F is equal to zero, then there will be no acceleration, and top speed will have been reached.

Now, the main counteracting force will be air resistance, although there may well be others (gravity for example if you are moving uphill) air resistance will supply the most signifigant part.

I forget the exact equation required except for that it follows the "Y=MX^2+C" pattern. Meaning that you are required to expend roughly 4 times the energy to double your speed.

Hopefully someone with a firmer grasp of the physics I learnt all too many years ago will enlighten us with the specifics numbers.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » 2003-01-25 02:58pm

2000AD wrote:Going by the basic premis of the movie he is weak because he is absorbing the ENERGY of the people. This means that he has the power to run faster, punch with more force, speed up his reactions, etc. But his physical propeties stay the same. His bones don't get super hard or anything, therefor he still has human weaknesses like ,for eg, getting hit by a car will hurt!

Uhm, but then what about his slamming a metal wall, punching through cars, and all that? It seems like he does get tougher physically as well.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-25 03:13pm

2000AD wrote:Going by the basic premis of the movie he is weak because he is absorbing the ENERGY of the people. This means that he has the power to run faster, punch with more force, speed up his reactions, etc. But his physical propeties stay the same. His bones don't get super hard or anything, therefor he still has human weaknesses like ,for eg, getting hit by a car will hurt!

He does gain some toughness. If his bones didn't get any stronger he would of broken his hand when he dented that wall. But overall your estimated seems to be right on. We do know that guns, sharp objects, will still hurt him.

And thank you silver. I guess I could try that formula if the people want me too. Though really the whole point was that he prob should be going faster and even though he would have to double his energy he still had alot of people in him. More likly the 50mph was not calced and it could be alot more or less than needed. I admit my original though was wrong anout the linear increase.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2003-01-25 03:34pm

50 mph ain't too far off...

square root of 60 is 7.7

7.7*10 = 77mph

Which given no diminshing returns is what I'd expect his top sustainable running speed to be under optimal conditions.

Given all the factors that would drag his running speed down,(dodgng cars, haing just been in a fight, etc..) 50mph isn't too far off at all.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-01-25 04:36pm

Doh! Damn winblows for fucking up my harddrive so i had to format it. I used to have The One in DivX on here. Ah well, cant be right all the time.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-01-25 05:10pm

2000AD wrote:
Omega-13 wrote:If Ulaw couldl finish smith quickly, I think he could take it, but Ulaw is human, and tires quickly, and really really starts to slow down after he takes punishment,
Tires quickly? He ran at 50 mph without breaking a sweat after beating up a group of cops! IIRC we only see him get tired after taking a few hits from someone as strong as him. BTW there is evidence that Law is stronger than Smth, eg. Law using motorcyles as knuckledusters, and that he is faster, Aforementioned 50mph and that he dodges machine gun fire while in a cramped air vent!

Well he was certainly getting tired at the end, when he was fighting the good guy,

Second, we don't know if he was dodging bullets in the airvent or not, the cops could have been firing in the wrong places, we aren't sure what was going on in there, so lets not guess, or even assume.

In the main fight scene in The Matrix, agent smith punched 2 huge chunks out of a concrete gurder. Now, since the scene was in slow motion, it shows great detail, smith did not
a) slow down
b) first deform
c) arm bent more

as he hit the concrete, there is not indication that he's any less weak than U Law.

I think its going to come down to Endurance, and who can take the most punishment, Smith got kicked right in the face, by a guy who is just as strong as him, ,and it didn't even LEAVE A MARK, no red mark, no blood, nothing
it broke his glasses, not even his hair was messed up

c'mon,

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-01-25 08:17pm

Are you kidding? The vent he fired from got completely shot to hell by the cops, if he'd still been in that spot when they opened up he would've been turned into a leaky bag of meat.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-25 08:21pm

Omega-13 wrote:I think its going to come down to Endurance, and who can take the most punishment, Smith got kicked right in the face, by a guy who is just as strong as him, ,and it didn't even LEAVE A MARK, no red mark, no blood, nothing it broke his glasses, not even his hair was messed up

c'mon,

And yet 9mm subsonic will kill an agent easily, as we saw when Trinity surprised one of them. They're not THAT tough; you're exaggerating the power of their hits.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-01-25 08:29pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Omega-13 wrote:I think its going to come down to Endurance, and who can take the most punishment, Smith got kicked right in the face, by a guy who is just as strong as him, ,and it didn't even LEAVE A MARK, no red mark, no blood, nothing it broke his glasses, not even his hair was messed up

c'mon,
And yet 9mm subsonic will kill an agent easily, as we saw when Trinity surprised one of them. They're not THAT tough; you're exaggerating the power of their hits.

Wasn't that a headshot?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-25 08:31pm

Exonerate wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And yet 9mm subsonic will kill an agent easily, as we saw when Trinity surprised one of them. They're not THAT tough; you're exaggerating the power of their hits.
Wasn't that a headshot?

Yes, just like the punches and kicks to the head that Omega-13 was using as evidence that they're basically invincible. Only it obviously did a lot more damage; he has tried to prove that A) their punches and kicks are unbelievably powerful and B) they can take those punches and kicks without injury, which makes them virtually indestructible. Trinity's kill disproves that.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-01-25 09:34pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Exonerate wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:And yet 9mm subsonic will kill an agent easily, as we saw when Trinity surprised one of them. They're not THAT tough; you're exaggerating the power of their hits.
Wasn't that a headshot?
Yes, just like the punches and kicks to the head that Omega-13 was using as evidence that they're basically invincible. Only it obviously did a lot more damage; he has tried to prove that A) their punches and kicks are unbelievably powerful and B) they can take those punches and kicks without injury, which makes them virtually indestructible. Trinity's kill disproves that.

He never suggested that they were indestructible. He just pointed out that blows from the rebels that are enought to throw grown men around didn't faze Smith. And your gun blast really doesn't disprove those facts in the slightest.