Decepticons vs Imperium

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-10-17 10:01pm

Cykeisme wrote:What property was it that the "sabot" rounds were supposed to have? Was it high temperature?

Do we have some sort of quantification on the temperatures generated at the target point of a lasgun, multilaser, lascannon etc?

No, because for hte most partt temperature is bloody meaningless in terms of measuring effect. Temperature is just a function of measuring the energy content of something, so what you should be comparing is the energy of the HEAT rounds in question, and then comparing them to 40K weapons.

It would also be bloody nice if someone would bother to do something more precise than "they throw an autobot X-number of feet." in terms of what the weapons do, unless they're some funky technobabble magictech.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-10-17 10:01pm

NeoGoomba wrote:The "field" that surrounds the Transformers I took to be their passive ECM suite, which prevented weapons lock and IM tracking, and could be amped up quite a bit, as shown when Blackout jammed the Quatar base.

Which is nice, but it will do fuck-all against optical tracking/targeting, and possibly some forms of laser-targeting.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-10-17 10:02pm

And the Nokia phone minigun?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-10-17 10:06pm

And what kind of Space Marines? Are they the Inquisition's own forces, ,or did they shanghai some random Chapter? OR can we pick the Chapter?

Moreover, is the squad tactical, Devastator, ASsault, or what?

Same with a Guard squad (and it will depend on whether they're veteran or novice, since that impacts how many heavy/special weapons they have as wlel as the kind of equipment.)

Edit: IF they "literally" vaporized C-17's (I'm kinda iffy about tht) and we ignore the fact the thing might have been carrying something volatile (fuel, for example), given the mass of a C-17 it would probably come out to a bout a terajoule of energy. I'm a bit leery of that, however.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-10-17 10:40pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Which is nice, but it will do fuck-all against optical tracking/targeting, and possibly some forms of laser-targeting.

Yeah, thats exactly what happened in the movie. Normal methods didnt work so they used laser targeting on Scorponok and Blackout.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-10-17 10:49pm

EDIT - They used the laser targeting to call in airstrikes.

Thought I had typed that originally. Damn brain.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2007-10-18 07:05am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:It is hard to rationalise Scorponok taking Mavericks to the face and not flinching and Blackout gets a groin shot from an, albeit alien influenced, grenade launcher and is out for the count.

I thought he got hit in the Spark. In which case, it would be more like a Golden BB, or a derringer shot to the brain.

Teleros · Post by **Teleros** » 2007-10-18 08:20am

Peptuck wrote:Barely related question: has anyone figured out where the Transformers are getting all the ammunition for their weapons? I can understand their energy weapons, and maybe the gun-like weapons being some type of exotic energy or projectile weapon, but the missile launchers?

It's probably related to the means by which they the Allspark can shrink itself - or that the Transformers themselves can disguise themselves as smaller objects etc.

IF they "literally" vaporized C-17's (I'm kinda iffy about tht)

Watching it again, I think those aircraft must've had something volatile in them: Blackout fires some sort of blue shockwave at them which actually appears to travel along the ground until it hits the aircraft, at which point we actually get the explosion.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-10-18 12:05pm

Blackout's shockwave weapon had variable effects depending on what he was targeting. He surgically wiped the floor clean around the comms. centre at the SOCCENT base and used very pin-point strikes in Mission City, but also had the omni-directional blast when surrounded after landing and the wide-area effect when taking out the C-17s, whether fuelled or not, it's quite clearly having an effect that helps disintegrate the superstructure and throw them quite far too, so vape is a bad term (it reminds me of the tanker bug effect in SST though I'd say the force is mainly KE).

The same thing happens with Starscream's missiles. One minute they are just powerful enough to blow apart some transformers (hyuck) at Hoover, the next minute they throw two Autobots a block away, severing one's legs entirely and blowing apart a semi.

Quantifying such anomalous effects is quite simply a pain, so I never bother. I was interested in pointing out stealth and evasive strategies rather than firepower.

As for where they get their ammo from, the movie review thread had speculation on energy-to-matter condensing.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-10-18 03:51pm

The one thing that everyone keeps talking about (including myself at times) is Megatrons new Fusion Cannon. It took maybe a second to charge, and it blew Optimus back about a city block. The thing was, it seemed to be a totally kinetic impact, since I don't recall seeing any sort of blast or burn mark on Optimus when he landed, even though it did leave him pretty stunned. Is there a way to calculate how much force there would be behind such a blast if we can get the weight of Prime?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-10-18 04:05pm

That's something of an issue too, since we don't really know their mass. The same arm cannon, though without the extended rifle modification, blew Jazz arse over tit as well. In fact, Bumblebee's cannon was concussive too, rather than thermal, for the most part.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-10-18 04:57pm

Stupid "mass"!

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2007-10-19 02:39am

The weapons might have some "seismic charrge" like effect, but more focused, to allow those concussive effects with little or no thermal impact (or not killing anyone nearby.) Think magic forcefield explosion or something like that.

Anyhow, even if modern weapons have a slight chance of scratching/harming the Transformersm then 40K weapons arguably can do it (energy weapons at least.) Krak grenades are easily GJ range (As are krak and melta missiles for a rocket launcher.. the latter can get triple digit GJ for the Guard variants alone) Meltas and plasma rifles get double digit GJ per shot minimum, and multimeltas/plasma cannon probably top out in the triple digit GJ easily. Lascannon probably also hit GJ range as well by virtue of being anti-tank.

WEather or not a bolter can do harm will depend on ammo. Some bolter shells can reach single or double digit MJ per bolt (and there's at least one example of bolter fire outright vaporising people.) so the sustained output of a bolter could (again, ammo depending) be triple digit MJ.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-10-19 12:09pm

Oh no doubt WH40k can damage them, I was just pointing out the annoying issues with their portrayal on screen and in the comic and how sitting there and taking shots isn't a smart game for anyone other than Brawl.

If Starscream wasn't playing both sides, he'd probably have won the final battle on his own. He 0wned just about everyone he fought, but didn't bother getting his hands dirty.

I really hope we see a more intense battle without the limitations of the Mission City one in the sequel. A gestalt form showing up as a carrier would at least give us an idea of a Titan in cinema.