TCS Confederation vs TCS Midway

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-30 10:59pm

Damn lack of an edit button. [Last warning you cock sucking man whore]

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-30 11:10pm

Okay one side is 252(let's give only 50 bombers...and let's split them into the two classes)

So they are now dealing with 212 fighter...and the Confederation has equal billing of around 24 bombers(total of both classes)...heck we can give the entire fighter compliment to be just assualt wings, just to make it fair.

You saying that for some reason the Midway's 212 fighter squadron(which are near two to one...with Bombers) cannot adequetly cover the bombers and fight off a numerically inferior opponent?

Sorry the Midway easily wins unless half of their fighters are complete fucking morons.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-01-30 11:17pm

It is unlikely that the Confederation can win this. Unless it can sneak up on the Midway and open fire with her capital guns there's no chance of victory. The CVX simply has far too many starfighters at her disposal, probably enough to get the torpedo bombers through.

If we assume something silly like the Midway is only armed with Piranahs, Tigersharks and Shrikes while the Confederation gets Black Wasps and Black Vampires, things change - but that won't happen.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-31 12:02am

Alright, this has been fun, but Sheppard is right. The Midway carries a battery of heavy ion guns it uses against enemy vessels. That, and her PTC can barely dent a Piranha's armor (if what TC has been saying is true).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 12:15am

MKSheppard wrote:
Alyeska wrote: Unlike the normal guns, AMGs fire through the shields.
Quoth the WC2 tech manual:

Antimatter guns are slow to aim and cannot be readily be used against fighter-sized craft
{knock it off Shep ~ Stormbringer}

If you cannot comprehend why the Midway's 252 craft Air wing will
bitchslap down the Confederation's 120 craft air wing...then you're
trully stupid....too stupid to be a mod....

I take it you didn't read where I said at best the Confederation could only take the bombers. That is all I am saying the Confederation has to take down.

And WTF is that WC2 manual quote supossed to be for? I never claimed that the AMGs would be any use against the fighters. I was stating that because they are under the shield, IF the Midways bombers are taking out the Midways fighters can't destroy the AMGs. THAT is what I was trying to indicate.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 12:19am

Alyeska wrote:IF the Midways bombers are Taken out, the Midways fighters can't destroy the AMGs.

Sigh, I have to agree the lack of an edit button does get annoying from time to time.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-31 12:19am

Shep, Alyeska. Knock it off with the flames. NOW.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 12:19am

Stormbringer wrote:Shep, Alyeska. Knock it off with the flames. NOW.

Huh? I didn't flame Shep. I asked him if he would rather debate or flame.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-31 12:21am

I still say unless the Confederation has Blair clones vs Rookies...The Midway wins pretty handily.

Literally the Confederation would have to pull something unique to win this lopsided of a fight.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 12:24am

I can see where people are comming from, and I have to agree with them, to a point. I still believe that a suicide mission on the part of the Confederations fighter force could concievably take down the Midway's bomber force. Sure they wouldn't last long but if the zeroed in on the bombers and unleashed everything on those alone, I think they have a chance of taking them down before being shot up. Regardless it would be quite a fight to see.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-01-31 12:27am

Given that firepower tends to follow an exponential pattern (i.e. 2 fighters have 4 times the firepower of 1 fighter), the Midway's small craft would be roughly 4 times as powerful as the Confederation's. The actual number, assuming all identical craft, is 4.41, but I dropped it slightly to account for a higher proportion of bombers for the Midway. I would have to say the likelihood of the Confed destroying the Midway's bombers (all of them) is very unlikely. The Midway can provide enough escorts to make it nearly impossible. Not completely, but a low enough chance that I would give the advantage to the Midway overall.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 12:32am

Ok, I ask this. How many fighters would it take for the Confederation to have a reasonable chance of taking out 50 bombers from the Midway? Would they need 150? What if all 120 of the Confederations strike craft were purely fighters, no bomber mix like normal? Does the Confederation need more point defense guns to support itself with all its craft flying CAP or would it need more or a different configuration of fighters?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-31 12:36am

The problem is they would need around 180-190...given that 50 of the Midways Strike craft are just bombers...it still leaves 202 fighters for sheer support, and both side given equal seperations(no Black Vampires vs Pirahnas).

You still have 120 total vs 101 bomber escorts and 101 Advance Strike.

Given even even killing...that still leaves the escorts to deal with...so they would need around 60-70 more craft to effectively deal with the escorts and try the bombers(Bombers while sucky...The Devastator has a large array of mini death...to fend off at least one to two ships bothering it.)

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-31 01:35am

Wow, wait ... the Hades class actually has more bridge armor than the Midway. If we're keeping with this whole Confed=Hades thing (which I don't really understand, in any case), the Confederation has a greater chance of survival.

I also think flak cannons are superior to lasers when it comes to point-defense.

---

Here's something to think about: Wartime Confed (the nation, not the ship) squadrons were smaller than peacetime (10 ships to 16, respectively - source WCIV novel). This probably would have some sort of effect on the chain of command - maybe Midway's squadrons would be clumsier and less able to handle the threat.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-31 01:38am

Possibly but we are given sizes of the ships numbers.

So for our purpose it 120 vs 252....literally the Midway would have to be outlandishly stupid.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-31 01:47am

Couldn't the Midway also send its bombers wave by wave, but send all its fighters at once so that when the Confederation's fighters come out to destroy the bombers, the Midway's fighters destroy them all, then the next wave of Midway's bombers come in?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-01-31 01:49am

Yeah which is really why I gave the scenario of all 120 of the Confederation are fighters(presumably out) vs the 50 Midway Bombers and 202 Fighters.

101 of the Fighters act as escorts, the other as an advanced force.

Even with some what a less wave format...the Confederation is screw persay in the Fighter ship contest.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-01-31 02:17am

It doesn't fucking matter how l33t the Confed crews are or even if
they have 120 fighters on board....they're still going to run up against
a wall of 200+ fighters from the Midway.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-01-31 02:29am

What was that line again about Quality vs. Quanity?

Depends which are more manuverable, faster, and better armed of the two fighter screens?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-31 02:31am

Shinova wrote:Couldn't the Midway also send its bombers wave by wave, but send all its fighters at once so that when the Confederation's fighters come out to destroy the bombers, the Midway's fighters destroy them all, then the next wave of Midway's bombers come in?

The reverse has been done in combat. In the Battle of the Philippines Sea Task Force 58 didn't launch a strike against the IJN. That would have required a significant fighter escort. Instead all fighters where used to intercept the incoming Japanese attacks, slaughtering them. The fighters where then refueled and rearmed and a larger number where sent to escort a strike.

Problem was the Japanese, having lost the majority of their aircraft in the opening ass raped strike, decided to flee. That meant that the bombers form TF 58 only got one chance to hit them, sinking only one carrier. Though subs nailed two others and the IJN was quite shattered as a naval air force.

In a real battle the Confederation would likely run after loseing her airgroup to such a tactic and might escape. But in a to the death debate she's fucked.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-31 09:54am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:What was that line again about Quality vs. Quanity?

Depends which are more manuverable, faster, and better armed of the two fighter screens?

They're the same fighters so I don't think it'd matter.

And if the Confederation had wartime fighters it'd be even worse.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-01-31 06:47pm

The whoile debate is contingent upon the Midway CO being aggresive enouigh to split his/her force, and the Confederation not launching a first assault.

It's more likely the Confed would see the Midwat and

A) run like hellly
B) send her 50 or so heavy strike fighters against the Midway's BARCAP and most likely get slaughtered.

And at the time of the shakedown cruise, the Midway onlyhad two air wings or about 160 fighters, and the heaviest craft were Panthers and Shrikes (medium fighters and light bombers, respectively).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 08:58pm

Ok, lets change the scenario slightly. The Midway is still alone and has its 252 fighter group. The Confederation has its own Battlegroup and its mission is to destroy the Midway. The Confederation is being escorted by a Waterloo cruiser. It has has 40 fighters. That increases the Confederations fighter compliment from 120 to 160. They are still outnumbered, but now the Confederation group has two targets, more AA weapons, and the ability to strike from multiple sides.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-01-31 09:05pm

Alyeska wrote:Ok, lets change the scenario slightly. The Midway is still alone and has its 252 fighter group. The Confederation has its own Battlegroup and its mission is to destroy the Midway. The Confederation is being escorted by a Waterloo cruiser. It has has 40 fighters. That increases the Confederations fighter compliment from 120 to 160. They are still outnumbered, but now the Confederation group has two targets, more AA weapons, and the ability to strike from multiple sides.

Ehem, aren't you trying a bit too hard to somehow get the Confederation side to win?

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-31 09:07pm

Shinova wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Ok, lets change the scenario slightly. The Midway is still alone and has its 252 fighter group. The Confederation has its own Battlegroup and its mission is to destroy the Midway. The Confederation is being escorted by a Waterloo cruiser. It has has 40 fighters. That increases the Confederations fighter compliment from 120 to 160. They are still outnumbered, but now the Confederation group has two targets, more AA weapons, and the ability to strike from multiple sides.
Ehem, aren't you trying a bit too hard to somehow get the Confederation side to win?

More like even the odds. As others stated, they felt the Confederation needed upwards of 180 fighters. This is less fighters, but gives them an advantage elsewhere.