Bad guys are cooler?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-08-15 04:25pm

Oh, and lets not forget DinoBot from Beast Wars. His death was a great show.

"What are you going to do now?"
"Improvise"

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-08-15 04:35pm

That was not that bad of a show, and Dinobot WAS cool. Best good guys are always the good guys that were evil at some point in time.

Renewed_Valour1 · Post by **Renewed_Valour1** » 2002-08-15 05:03pm

Can't forget Tyr from Andromeda. Though with all the plotting he does who knows what side he's on.

In general though the bad guys do get to have all the fun.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-08-15 05:27pm

Valour has a point, bad guys are cool cause they get to have all the fun.

Take Darth Vader/Anakin for example. He gave in to all his anger, lust, and desire. He got to blow up planets! Command armies! Ride in an ECS! Kill people with his laser-stick! Get down with Padme!

And what does Luke get? To live on a farm. Act all high and mighty and good and snobby and whiney and stuff. Gets to ride an X-Wing. Must restrain from killing people with the laser stick. And...got down with Mara 20years after Endor.

You can see why bad guys are sooooo cool.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-15 06:24pm

Not only are bad guys cooler, they also tend to lose and everybody's a fan of the underdog to an extent.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-15 06:48pm

And...got down with Mara 20years after Endor.

before promptly getting turned into Mara's bitch.

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2002-08-16 05:59am

ArthurDent wrote:Han Solo was cool....but that's probably because he was a bad guy at heart.

Yes, I think that most of the cool "good guys" aren't that good after all. Take Gaiman's Sandman, or Zelazny's Sam and Corwin... A typical good guy who is a true good guy is not much of a character, mostly.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-16 08:19am

The classic example would be Mr Bond of a good Good guy but even then he was bad abit

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-16 08:57am

Good guys are only cool if they have a bit of darkness.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-08-16 11:44am

Another cool badguy from long ago. Baron Karza of Micronaut fame. Even the good guy Acroyear was cool.

Baron Karza
http://www.coincidental.net/comics/seri ... /1-04.html

Acroyear
http://www.coincidental.net/comics/seri ... /1-12.html

XPViking

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2002-08-16 04:05pm

Captain Sisko dammit!!! I don't care what others think

and Jadzia too!

Other than that, the bad guys wins the coolness prize, to the point where, apart from Star Trek, James Bond and Star Wars, I want the bad guy to win. I wanted the aliens to triumph in Independence Day, for Ethan Hunt to meet his end in Mission Impossible... and so forth.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-16 04:08pm

And let us not forget The Predator!. Pure bad-ass, he sees in infrared, and he can get up after being blasted with a sawed-off shotgun at point-blank range.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-08-16 04:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:And let us not forget The Predator!. Pure bad-ass, he sees in infrared, and he can get up after being blasted with a sawed-off shotgun at point-blank range.

The Predator...

So cool.

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-08-16 04:37pm

I love the "South Park" episode where Butters is walking in a scary haunted forest, and all of a sudden, we seem Butters in infrared and then a distinctive sighting apparatus being projected upon him...

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-08-16 11:51pm

Hey! You forgot Artoo! Cool in his own little way!

Kolinar Romanov · Post by **Kolinar Romanov** » 2002-08-17 12:17am

Hmmm.... actually, not all Bad guys are cool. The dorks bad guys, and the REAALY evil ones are very much uncool, and can easily oblitearte you with a bolt of pure Nietsczhean will to power. I shall categroize bad/evil into four catgeories:

Very good: Uncool. these are the epitomes of goodness, but, are hardly much cool at all.
Examples: Luke Skywalker, Mom Montha, Capt. Picard, et cetera

Neutral/CHaotic Good: Though good, these guys do have their faults. However, these are the 'cool' good guys, the ones that we really want to emulate.
Examples: (any Samuel L. Jackson character), Han Solo, McClayne (did I get his name right ? haven't ewatched die hard for ages), (any clint eastwood character)

Comic relief: cool and uncool. a fair mix.
Example : Jar Jar Binks(it had to be said, since he's uncool)

Neutral/order evil: The cool, and not so cool bad guys. These are a part of the comic relief as well, with their insanity, and madness. ALso, the cool bad guys do have a certain conscience, and are the oes that tend to join the good guys again.
Examples : Alexei Romanov (not cool, but funny), Darth Vader (now, that IS cool)

Really Bad : The epitome of evil. You know what i mean.
Examples: Emperor Palpatine (he's not cool, but he can electrify you), Yuri (okay, he is slightly cool, but, he can still whop your mind)

Then again, the above is just my opinion. Bad guys aren't always cooler. Making cool guys needs a bit of balance, yes ?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-17 12:22am

C'Boath evil cool. very very evil coolish

Thrawn
Neutral Evil he gets it done however it needs doing and you better not step in his way

And then there was Shaft

Kolinar Romanov · Post by **Kolinar Romanov** » 2002-08-17 12:24am

Mr Bean wrote:C'Boath evil cool. very very evil coolish

Thrawn
Neutral Evil he gets it done however it needs doing and you better not step in his way

And then there was Shaft

Yes, shaft ! The epitome of cool good guys. That was one heck of a bad-ass. ANy questions, comrades ?

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2002-08-17 03:39am

How would you classify Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Mao Zedung, Osama bin Laden, Fidel Castro, and of course Satan? Whenever you think of people that actually did evil things and actually did exist, the coolness factor goes out the window. No one dares to even considerhow cool they are, let alone saying that they have desirable qualities or abilities. But whenever you think of someone far worse, but did nothing evil in reality, you immediately want to be that person or have that power. Such an example would be Grand Moff Tarkin, Darth Vader, or Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine. Just because they aren't real but are supposed to have done evil things, but in reality didn't, I don't see why you would want to be like them or have their power or commit such evil acts. I once thought like that, years ago. But then I realized that if these people were real, if there was someone that would kill millions of innocent people for fun in reality, I would think of that individual quite differently.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2002-08-18 10:37am

Darth Wong wrote:
Darth_Shinji wrote:We have fallen a long way from the days when John Carter and Conan were the norm. Back then the heros went out and did something, and it was the villains getting in the way. Now it seems villains are the only ones with goals in their lives.
Hey, good point. Conan was cool. Hercules was cool. Thor was ultra-fucking cool. Odysseus was uber-cool. Somewhere along the line, things changed. Perhaps it's the increasing popularity of "pacifism = good" as an ethic. Since pacifism is now considered good, good guys must be passive, which makes them uncool in a society where would-be alpha males compete for position.

True, prehaps its also tries to send the message: anything that changes the status quo is evil? That you should protect society and not change it? Even if you could?

And for some reason I think people relate to villains more. I don't know why, but its true. Look back at old cartoon villains, they always loosed, and even sometimes stupid. But lots of poeple still love them and think there the bomb.

Skelator
Megatron
Galvatron
Cobra commander
ect.

How dare you compare Skeletor and Cobra Commander to almighty Megatron and Galvatron? Foolish flesh creature ...[/quote]

Hey, its just a example that villains are usaully remembered over thier good-guy counterpoints. And I'll adimt cobra commander isn't in megatrons legue, but Skelator is the man!

Speaking of which, anyone seen the new he-man yet? Its decent for a american cartoon.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-08-18 11:03am

I don't thing Tyr counts as a good guy. I don't think he counts as a bad guy either, just sorta neutral.

Venom is a damn cool hero. and so is Sonic when in his super form. Rhinox had that pasifism hero thing, but still when provoked he could kick some ass. When Optimus let him go to the Predicon side as his aggression factor went through the roof he took out everyone in the base no problem. He was fighting even when he had a big hole in him when almost everyone else went transmetal. Even with transmetals he could go toe to toe with them and kick ass. Man if he would of transmetal or even transmetal2 the would of kicked even Tigerhawk's ass.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-08-18 01:13pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:How would you classify Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Mao Zedung, Osama bin Laden, Fidel Castro, and of course Satan?

Most of them are decidedly uncool. But of course, real-life villains do not act like their fictional counterparts. They're rarely "tough" (Adolf Hitler was a cream-puff whose only power was rhetoric and ruthlessness), even though toughness is a prerequisite for coolness. However, I would object to including Satan in that list. Satan is fictional, and actually, I think he's pretty cool. He goes up against an omnipotent super-being, he is the "great tempter", he gives knowledge of good and evil to mankind, and his enemy is the one who commits all of the atrocities of the Old Testament. He gets blamed for causing diseases with "demons" which we actually know to be caused by bacteria and viruses, so he's clearly the victim of a smear campaign. I think Satan is extremely cool (although he is fictional, so he really doesn't have anything to do with your point).

Whenever you think of people that actually did evil things and actually did exist, the coolness factor goes out the window. No one dares to even considerhow cool they are, let alone saying that they have desirable qualities or abilities.

Au contraire, mon frere. The villains you listed (apart from Satan) are fearsome for their evil acts, but none of them act cool. If they were fictional characters, they would still be uncool.

Such an example would be Grand Moff Tarkin, Darth Vader, or Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine. Just because they aren't real but are supposed to have done evil things, but in reality didn't, I don't see why you would want to be like them or have their power or commit such evil acts.

Tarkin is not considered particularly cool. It's Vader who's considered cool, because he's a bad-ass. Palpatine is somewhat less cool, but he has the cool Force-lightning. We envy power, but we envy power on a personal level, not an organizational/corporate/government level. That's why Bill Gates is not cool, nor would he be if he were a fictional character. That's why Palpatine is completely uncool until he unleashes his Force lightning. You're missing the point of coolness.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-18 01:22pm

I'd like to just say I am witnessing an analytic approach to coolness.

Only on SD.Net ladies and gentlemen. Only here.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2002-08-18 02:25pm

Darth Wong wrote:Most of them are decidedly uncool. But of course, real-life villains do not act like their fictional counterparts. They're rarely "tough" (Adolf Hitler was a cream-puff whose only power was rhetoric and ruthlessness), even though toughness is a prerequisite for coolness.

Actually, Hitler was anything but a creampuff. He got the Iron Cross for heroism, because he worked as a runner in the trenches and was wounded multiple times but always went back to the front. This sets him up for a good toughness rating, but he screws it all to hell by being a vegetarian and totally abstaining from alcohol.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-18 02:56pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Most of them are decidedly uncool. But of course, real-life villains do not act like their fictional counterparts. They're rarely "tough" (Adolf Hitler was a cream-puff whose only power was rhetoric and ruthlessness), even though toughness is a prerequisite for coolness.
Actually, Hitler was anything but a creampuff. He got the Iron Cross for heroism, because he worked as a runner in the trenches and was wounded multiple times but always went back to the front. This sets him up for a good toughness rating, but he screws it all to hell by being a vegetarian and totally abstaining from alcohol.

Yeah but he did get the Iorn Cross for essentially running through message trenches not getting shot, luck really.

What do y'all think of Feild Marshall Erwin Rommel?