T:SCC 2x22 "Born To Run"

[His Divine Shadow]

What was the significance of the discussion at the beginning of John Henry being linked to the hardware he is? I mean if in the end he downloaded onto Camerons chip and they both went to the future in Cromarties body, is he still John Henry?

Also when the liquid metal part rejoined Weavers body, I didn't get the impression it was rejoining her, I got the impression the flyer carried that thing there, to infiltrate/infect her or something.

[Zac Naloen]

That was awesome.


So John Henry = Machine Resistance's Connor.

[Shroom Man 777]

Sweet Jesus.

I can barely understand this at all. Holy shit.

Goddamn it, Robot River! NO! NOOOOOOOOOO!

Shit.

FUCK!

GODDAMN IT!

Robot River...

This is the most goddamn depressing ending ever.

So John Henry = Machine Resistance's Connor.

I don't know... maybe John Henry + Cameron?

I hope she's still in the chip. Goddamn it. I really do.

I hope to hell she didn't end up transferred into that goddamn Turk instead.

[Shroom Man 777]

Also when the liquid metal part rejoined Weavers body, I didn't get the impression it was rejoining her, I got the impression the flyer carried that thing there, to infiltrate/infect her or something.

It was her eel.


That was not a satisfying ending.

[eyexist]

My understanding was they simply switched places: Cameron was downloaded into the Turk and John Henry into her chip. John, going in half-cocked, doesn't realize that even if he finds Future John Henry there's nothing left of Cameron to bring back.

It also explains why Cameron was apprehensive about Ellison's message. "Will you join us" could have been the code word for "You know what to do now." It meant sacrificing herself so the resistance may succeed, but it also meant leaving the person she loves the most.

I have to say that Chola's hotness factor went through the roof when I heard her speak for the first time.

One thing that nagged at me was the color of Cam's exposed eye. We've seen her eyes glow blue in the Pilot and she hinted that she is a different model than the other Ts. The producers have said that they wanted to go a different direction with Cameron after the Pilot though, so I can forgive it.

[tezunegari]

That was intense...

The scene when John had to "check Camerons power source" was hilarious and I nearly choked there. Drinking while watching Terminator has become rather dangerous in the later half of Season 2. And is it just me or did Cameron appear to be rather human during that scene as if she was going to confess her love (or the Terminator version of it) to John?

The scene with Weaver and John after the time displacement was great. At first both are naked, zoom to John and the we see Weaver in post-apocalyptic gear while John is still naked.
Did Weaver smirk at John when he was surprised about her clothing?! I kind off expected a one liner from Weaver there. "Jealous?"

But they haven't revealed who created Skynet and why. Also how does John Henry connect to the human resistance? Is he the new founder/leader?

Maybe they were going for the angle of John Connor learning to fight Terminators in the future for eight to ten years and then send him back as the Messiah leader he was supposed to be.

As a Season finally it was great and opened a whole truck load of possible stories.
Though as a Show finally... too much of a story twist. Nothing was really resolved there.
John has left his mother and seems to work closely with a T-1k1, Camerons involvement in the "Will you join us" story arc and what is with Sarah?
Is she sick, or does she simply suffer stress?!

I so do hope the show won't be cancelled now.

About Fox' cancellation practice and the likely doom of TSCC:
"Requested items: One Mark V ECM unit, 1000 km of fullerene cable, one low yield nuclear warhead. Stated purpose: cancellation party at Fox

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno, terminators are supposed to have red glowing eyes IMO. Thats a convention I don't wanna se broken because red glowing eyes > any other color.

It'd be pretty interesting to know if Cameron remained in the Turk or not, I am not sure she did however, since it looked more or less switched off. Also I hope they get back in time again and get that fixed, I want John Connor to be the leader of the resistance.

[eyexist]

It'd be pretty interesting to know if Cameron remained in the Turk or not, I am not sure she did however, since it looked more or less switched off. Also I hope they get back in time again and get that fixed, I want John Connor to be the leader of the resistance.

What's to say he won't? Alison From Palmdale confirms that not only is he an important person in the resistance, but he also has an intimate relationship with Alison. Now that we know he was still a teen when they jumped forward it makes the relationship, as was previously stated, a lot less creepy.

The machine faction, however, needs a leader. Guess who that will be?

[charlemagne]

What's to say he won't? Alison From Palmdale confirms that not only is he an important person in the resistance, but he also has an intimate relationship with Alison.

Either it'll work out this way, OR, maybe he jumped to a future timeline where John Connor isn't important at all. Maybe the resistance is lead by one Savannah Weaver and her trusted T-888 sidekick. Maybe this doesn't work out so well for some reason, and John now has to work on restoring at least the rough outlines of the "original" timeline with him in charge.

Either way, I think this opens a whole lot of cool possibilities. The show's title won't change I guess, so Sarah will have to play a role. Maybe John will communicate with her through messages sent back in time to coordinate stuff. I wonder what role Weaver will play now, she hid from Derek and the others, but I doubt she'll just leave John on his own now.


All speculation aside, it was a very cool episode and 5 all the way. I loved the details, like how they turned to the hot latina girl from season 1 for their new IDs, or Weaver telling Sarah to watch whom she called a bitch. Sarah's lucky that Weaver travelled through time or else she would have to be pretty careful when next going to the bathroom

John Henry cheating at rolling dice was nice. Cameron busting out Sarah with a little help from John Henry was great, and I agree that a "human fatalities: 0" count would've been cool

Questions: I'm pretty sure that "Will you join us?" triggered something in Cameron, the question remains when it was planted in her and by whom. Also, did the kill-switch wander over to John Henry with Cameron's chip? And since John Connor left his clothes etc. behind in 2009 - who picked up the remote?

[Shroom Man 777]

The remote is in Cameron's skull, not her chip.

I really don't know what to think of this, really. I mean, if I knew there was gonna be a continuation. But as an end... It CAN'T BE! *bawls*

I just want more...

more Robot River...

Shit, she's dead. They fucking killed her. I don't want to believe that. I want to believe that she's still in the chip. Maybe she's combined with John Henry - he is still mostly blank. I don't know. God DAMN it! He can't have jumped decades into the future for her, for nothing!

God damn it.

It's such a huge change that I don't know know what'll happen...

[Peptuck]

Hey, on the plus side, more Allison!

Also, is it just me, or did Weaver seem really, honestly pissed that the Terminator killed her gate? She doesn't give a damn about the security guard, but do not fuck with her gates.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I'm thinking they just wanted to give her a snappy comeback before she took out the Terminator.

That was an excellent finale. If this show ends up not getting renewed, I really hope they look into other avenues to continue the story.

[Anguirus]

o_0

This + the last episode = amazing TV. I really hope that someone important at Fox likes the ep as much as I did and doesn't pull the trigger.

As for possible changes in title of show, I think that the last shot of the episode was Sarah following John back. Because she loves him too. As for where the show could go from there, I daren't even speculate...but there is a world of possibility. I'm confident in their ability to pull off a whole "future war" story arc or season, considering that they have had several episodes set largely in the future and they have worked out fine.

[Shroom Man 777]

Hey, on the plus side, more Allison!

MEATBAG CAMERON

Oh well, at least we might finally get to see Summer Glau play a normal humanoid.

Sarah Connor is still in the past. Her voice was the only thing that echoed into the future. And... well, it can't be called a Sarah Connor Chronicle if the show won't be about her. She still has a lead - Danny Dyson is missing, under the clutches of Skynet no doubt. She can still fight Skynet in the present.

If they continue the show, and I'm hoping they will, then they better save my Robot River!

John left his mother and went to the future to save her! Goddamn it! He loves her! And she loves him too!

There better be something left of her inside her chip! She could've combined with John Henry or something, but still! Goddamn it!

Robot River...

[Drooling Iguana]

I'd just like to point out that I called the whole "Weaver isn't working for Skynet" bit right from the premiere episode.

[Mad]

What's to say he won't? Alison From Palmdale confirms that not only is he an important person in the resistance, but he also has an intimate relationship with Alison. Now that we know he was still a teen when they jumped forward it makes the relationship, as was previously stated, a lot less creepy.

No, I think John jumped into a future that has had to cope without him. John Connor's resistance was winning the war, but we don't know the status of the war with Kyle's resistance.

It's unlikely that John Connor jumped into the future to join the resistance.

First off, the first time jump didn't happen in Cameron's timeline: Sarah Connor died in 2005 from cancer in her timeline, and now won't because she jumped past that. Even if she still dies from cancer, it will be in a different year. (Unless she jumps back in time to do that, which seems unlikely given Cameron's "I don't know" answers. I took Cameron's response as a "How could I possibly know that?" kind of answer.)

The first time jump happened because Cameron was there. This means we're seeing the first iteration of Cameron entering the time loop. The second jump forward, where John jumped post-Judgement Day, happened because John wanted to save Cameron. That motivation is completely lacking in a timeline without Cameron. Since the first jump forward wouldn't have happened without Cameron, the second jump forward wouldn't have happened without Cameron, either.

So this John Connor being in the future is something new. (Well, sort of. There's the whole Universal Studios Terminator 3D thing, but let's ignore that.) Whether he stays or goes back remains to be seen, but the John Connor from Cameron and Derek's timeline was older than the John Connor that we see on the show.

(Also, the new movie has a John Connor that's significantly older than this John Connor. It's likely a different iteration of the time loop, so of course things can be different. But the point is that John Connor, Leader of the Resistance, can't always have been a kid that jumped forward in time.)

[Steven Snyder]

I could have sworn I heard Cameron say at the end "I love you too"

You did.

All in all I loved the series, it seemed to get stronger and stronger on these last half-dozen or so episodes.

Dear Fox, if you want ao Scifi show to succeed, get it the hell off Friday night, Put House, Fringe, T:SCC and Dollhouse on Monday and Tuesday night and then your damned American Idol for the rest of the week.

[Singular Intellect]

I could have sworn I heard Cameron say at the end "I love you too"

You did.

No, that was Sarah Connor saying that after John had jumped into the future, with the last trickle of time displacement energy carrying her voice forward.

Cameron's chip was gone and her body lifeless; where the heck would she be saying that from?

[charlemagne]

No, I think John jumped into a future that has had to cope without him. John Connor's resistance was winning the war, but we don't know the status of the war with Kyle's resistance.

Exactly, he jumped over Judgement Day and becoming the leader of the resistance afterwards. That's why I wondered if maybe restoring the status quo might be the big goal for season 3.

I think that Kyle being there was a kind of clue for this: if John Connor isn't the leader of the resistance, then there's no reason to send Kyle back to protect his mother. (This opens up the whole other parodoxon of why John is there in the first place if Kyle never went back, but then again, this isn't BTTF-style time travelling where you vanish into thin air if you change certain things. I guess that John just ended up in a parallel timeline.)

[Peptuck]

I'm curious as to who is leading the resistance without John or Weaver's presence? Sarah? John Henry? Ellison? One of the Reese brothers?

[PREDATOR490]

Watched it and am left drifting in my opinion.

On the surface, they obviously went an extra leg with the effects and stunts which were rather nice. Although clearly the effects relating to Weaver were left out a bit.
As for the underlying story, I really dont understand what the fuck was going on. The start was fairly consistant and all but everything dealing with the future shit completely went off the rails for explanation.
With an ending like this I do not see this show coming back unless they wrote John etc. out of the show and want to focus on Sarah Connor. Given how much this series has apparantly devoted to Sarah I would'nt be suprised if this is where they are going. Even if the series was to continue, I really do not see it being able to sustain a future war environment on a series budget let alone assemble a decent story arc.

I'm also rather annoyed at the fucking Drone CRASHING into the building for no apparant reason except to show off Weaver in a rather dramatic way which wont automatically have Sarah and John running for the exit. Who was piloting the drone, why did it not have any weapons, how the fuck did they know to crash it into that specific part and if they could do that then why send the goddamn Terminator ?
Incidentally, was this the endgame from the beginning of the series because how else would Cameron know 'Will You Join Us' was a message etc.
Did Cameron trick Future John into sending her back or did her memory coming back cause her to follow her own agenda for the Machine Resistance ?
Was this the reason why thug dude tried to tear out Cameron's chip ?
Fischer was sent back to implement a backdoor that Skynet used to fuck up Henry while Bleeding future guy splattered the wall with things leading to John Henry's creation or trying to stop it ?
Who the hell sent THAT guy then ?
Is the Derek we see at the end the Derek that was tortured by Fischer ?
Is this Allison Young going to be captured and killed or is ths a whole different future with a Weaver who has been through 2-3 different futures ?


I wanted this episode to at least explain what the fuck this entire season had been about. Instead it has just left shitloads of implications and threads that MIGHT be reasons and no solid conclusion wether or not who is winning.

[[R_H]]

I'm curious as to who is leading the resistance without John or Weaver's presence? Sarah? John Henry? Ellison? One of the Reese brothers?

Maybe there wasn't a leader at that point at all.

Awesome episode though, if that's the end of TSCC, it would be incredibly disappointing. Can't wait to see how T4 ties into this episode.

[Peptuck]

Who was piloting the drone,

Does it matter? It was obviously working for the Skynet faction.

why did it not have any weapons,

It was quite clearly loaded with explosives. Unless you believe Catherine Weaver has every panel in her office wired with bombs for dramatic effect.

how the fuck did they know to crash it into that specific part

Well, I dunno, maybe the fact that it was Weaver's office? And knowing Weaver was in there would be as easy as having a guy with a pair of binoculars watching the room from another rooftop.

and if they could do that then why send the goddamn Terminator?

Because a guy with a silenced pistol is a lot less attention-grabbing than a giant exploding drone-missile. Once the Terminator was taken out, things escalated.

[PREDATOR490]

Who was piloting the drone,

Does it matter? It was obviously working for the Skynet faction.

Of course it fucking matters.
We have SOMEONE sending Terminators, SOMETHING hacking into John Henry, SOMEONE building factories and people apparantly aware of the machines.
This is all happening in the PRESENT and yet for some unknown reason everyone is jumping to the future to win a war when elements clearly exist in the present.
So much for trying to STOP Judgement Day, several billion people dying means jack shit compared to jumping to a post-apocalypse future war where everything is FUBAR.
Whoever is operating in the present now has been left to their own devices in the present that will affect the future they jumped to so John Connor pretty much handed these Skynet minions a clear field to begin Judgement Day on their own terms.

why did it not have any weapons,

It was quite clearly loaded with explosives. Unless you believe Catherine Weaver has every panel in her office wired with bombs for dramatic effect.

IF it was loaded with explosives, which I find dubious given the damage, they were distinctly lacking in destructive power and a poor substitute to actually arming the thing with conventional weapons. If anything the ramming looked like a desperate attack and a poor Writers attempt to tie up the loose end of the drone.

how the fuck did they know to crash it into that specific part

Well, I dunno, maybe the fact that it was Weaver's office? And knowing Weaver was in there would be as easy as having a guy with a pair of binoculars watching the room from another rooftop.

Superb, a guy with Binoculars watching who could have simply used a weapon rather than have the drone recklessly smash into the building to kill one human.

and if they could do that then why send the goddamn Terminator?

Because a guy with a silenced pistol is a lot less attention-grabbing than a giant exploding drone-missile. Once the Terminator was taken out, things escalated.

A guy sitting with a sniper rifle is even less attention grabbing than an exploding drone or having the Terminator go Rambo.

[Anguirus]

^ I hear that a bunch of rent-a-cop hit men working for a megalomaniacal computer program may not always do the smartest thing, especially since their main base of operations was infiltrated and completely destroyed, they are on the run, and they keep losing operatives every time they cross Connor's path.

I mean, you are right, it was absolutely a "Weaver and the Connors are in the same room, kill them NOW!" moment, snap decision. Getting a sniper in place takes time, whereas if you have a drone in the city and can fly it directly over, you can kill them before their meeting is over.

Unless Weaver is a T-1000, which they didn't know. If she hadn't been, there would have been nothing left but a trashed office, mysterious metal debris, and human blood.