Saving Vault 68

[PeZook]

I'm pretty sure the flamethrower is actually a blowtorch ... which has a flamethrower setting. I'm not sure why its blowtorch has a flamethrower setting, but it is Fallout, I guess.

Pest control. Obviously

[Stark]

What's the goal? If you're throwing out the stupidest story in the fucking world (ie Fallout2) and doing your own thing, what are your intentions? Even if you decide to leave and start a community outside the vault you're in deep shit. I doing really see how using robot armies to protect some woman is going to help avoid the pretty much unavoidable death of everyone in the Vault; the only real question is how early are you going to open up and leave and how cripplingly old will everyone be.

Keeping a moral conscience so a thousand people can die in a box for nothing is disputable. The Vault-Tec plan is stupid, but at this late date there's basically nothing you can do to 'fix' the situation except the 'sit on your hands until everyone dies' plan. Vaults don't have the facilities to use more robots to support the aging population, which is a shame.

But hey, the vault isn't actually huge and doesn't have 1000 people anyway; you've only got maybe sixty guys to worry about. There's no way anything will happen with such a population other than 'die uselessly in the vault' or 'leave the vault and be killed or absorbed into the community outside'. Oh, or 'use an army of robots to slaughter the population so you can live with the woman alone who will doubtlessly love you for saving her from the rabid arms of the (possibly sexy) men'.

If we believe the size of the vaults (ps I don't) it would be pretty trivial to use the communcation system, bunking arrangements and video to make it appear that there were more than one woman around (although still a small number).

[open_sketchbook]

I'm going to second the "make the woman disappear" bit, and throw in a bit of busywork for the population; I'll tell them that scanners indicate the vault door took more-or-less a direct hit and was completely fucked, and now we can't open it (indicating that we may have been able to before), that the life support system is running on borrowed time, and we have to tunnel out. Then, I pick an area that most definately won't lead to the surface for several years, and we get with the digging. This will keep the population from wandering the vault excessively (allowing us to keep the sole female isolated easier and prevent the mens from going crazy) and also get us out so we can take stock of the situation and figure out how fucked the surface is. If I make sure the vault is miserable but safe thanks to rationing, the escape tunnel will be a blowoff valve, and a portion of the population will leave. If they find anyone alive, at least a few of them will return, hopefull with some women. At that point, I'm going to play Dwarf Fortress with the vault and become king of the wasteland. If there isn't anyone alive in the immediate area, well, we still have a fairly secure vault, and I put together teams of scavengers whose job it'll be to go on big patrols for months at a time looking for survivors and useful scrap, making the vault's population more managable.

[Ryushikaze]

The woman vanishes, kept secure with the tech crew, safe but not where anyone not 'on my team' can see her. I blame her missing on a galactic level screwup on the part of Vault-tec, making some BS about the male and female lists for Vault 68 and 69 got mixed in with each other, so each got the two vault's worth of one gender, which is an egregious error and we'll just have to go visit Vault 69 once it's safe enough to visit. I might even make 'Tunnel to nearby vault 69' one of the many makework projects I give to the men to keep them sane and vent their anger, etc.

Literally, though, I don't try forced breeding, I don't try a damn thing except to stall for time, get the hell out of the vault, head straight towards V69 and try and get in, and hope once we get there, things are civil, both in contact with the 999 women and especially with the overseer. Once I convince/ remove the overseer, and if things are civil, I expect the two populations to resume living in mixed numbers in both 68 and 69, since I expect its 999 women will be utterly sick of the single man as much as the men are sick of no women.

In short-
Get woman out of sight. Pretend she isn't there.
Get men busy on do nothing projects as well as extremely useful projects.
Get out (as part of above) once rad levels are safe enough.
Send party to V69. Not full force, just a trusted group of loyal and competent workers.
Make contact/ force way inside if contact can't be made.
Convince/ Eliminate overseer.
Mix populations.
Survive, expand, continue society.

Staying in the vault is a losing game any way you consider it.

[Stark]

Man it's going to be great for a woman locked up in a small part of the vault with no interaction with anyone but the Overseer and his mates FOR DECADES! This is totally a secret you can sit on too; nobody would ever blab about the secret woman in your office to anyone in a vault full of slaves men doing stupid jobs for no reason.

The very idea that you can just walk over to vault 69 is absurd. What could go wrong out in the wasteland when a thousand physically-fit, sex-starved and brutalised men find a vault full of women? Actually telling the population that there's another vault out there full of women requires revealing the Vault-Tec Stupid Plan, which seems like a really bad idea. Planning to eliminate the overseer so your rape gangs league of gentlemen can seize form loving relationships with women is awesome.

Can anyone quote the shortest time people need to stay in the vault to avoid radiation? I remember some vaults opened pretty early, but some had problems and others didn't. Does 68 have a GECK? What level of mutation or hardship is worthwhile? Is it desirable to use the tech and manpower to go bandit on the poor survivors? What will happen to the inevitable mutant subclass thus generated?

[Ford Prefect]

The OP mentions forty years before the locks turn off, which sounds about right.

[Ryushikaze]

Man it's going to be great for a woman locked up in a small part of the vault with no interaction with anyone but the Overseer and his mates FOR DECADES! This is totally a secret you can sit on too; nobody would ever blab about the secret woman in your office to anyone in a vault full of slaves men doing stupid jobs for no reason.

The very idea here is to get out before the first decade is done, if at all possible.
Another much more viable idea it to combine it with the 'divide into small groups' idea, so the one one woman and a selection of generally sane males are segregated as part of a very specific task so they still have company.
The very basic idea is to keep the knowledge of the situation from reaching the whole of the population however I can without killing the one female resident, while actively pursuing viable means of escape/ people management.
And I'm not even going to touch on the slaves comment. It's actually kind of true, given the power of the overseer. I do want to point out that the jobs would not be stupid and for no reason, since they'd all have an apparent purpose that would be beneficial. I just don't expect most of them to be completed before phase two goes into effect.

The very idea that you can just walk over to vault 69 is absurd. What could go wrong out in the wasteland when a thousand physically-fit, sex-starved and brutalised men find a vault full of women? Actually telling the population that there's another vault out there full of women requires revealing the Vault-Tec Stupid Plan, which seems like a really bad idea. Planning to eliminate the overseer so your rape gangs league of gentlemen can seize form loving relationships with women is awesome.

There is a reason I am not 'just walking over', but sending over a loyal party to make contact. I know my 999 men are likely to be insane, so they stay at home while I figure out the situ over at 69, which is likely going to be in a reasonable walking distance (a day or so, maybe a week, given how closely groups Vault clusters are) of mine. In general though, the best option- that I as the overseer would be aware of- providing I was told what the other Vaults are doing, natch- would be to find V69, or find survivors of the drops. Either way, getting OUT is major goal #1.

Can anyone quote the shortest time people need to stay in the vault to avoid radiation? I remember some vaults opened pretty early, but some had problems and others didn't. Does 68 have a GECK? What level of mutation or hardship is worthwhile? Is it desirable to use the tech and manpower to go bandit on the poor survivors? What will happen to the inevitable mutant subclass thus generated?

The earliest 'safe' vault was 1 year as I recall, though I could be wrong. One never closed and it created the ghouls we all know and love.

[Swindle1984]

What is reasonable walking distance? The average adults walks between 3 and 5 miles per hour, which means a twelve mile trip that takes five minutes in the car is going to take around three hours. Obviously, this assumes you're walking at a leisurely pace rather than jogging or running, but how fast are a bunch of sixty year olds who have been cooped up in a bomb shelter for decades going to be moving?

You also have the issue that people who just spent forty years inside a controlled environment are now wandering outdoors, walking distances they're not used to over rough terrain (I'd consider the ruins of a bombed out city to be "rough"), with unknown danger (radiation, bandits, packs of feral dogs, Chinese invaders, etc.) for days or a week just to get to another vault. Which may or may not be nearby and may or may not have been bombed off the face of the earth by a direct hit from a nuke.

I'm not saying it's a stupid idea (although the fact that the women will ALSO be in their 50's or older makes the whole issue of reproduction almost moot), but it's not as easy as you make it sound.

[Stark]

The OP mentions forty years before the locks turn off, which sounds about right.

Then clearly the solution is to use the power of greyskull... I mean the GECK to create not a garden of eden, but eve herself. BY THE THOUSAND. Quickly progressing to a woman-based economy sounds like a good plan after the GECKbomb turns half the population into women. What could go wrong?

Man I love how this thread has seriously turned into a guy saying 'I'll imprison the woman, brutalise the men, and then go personally to the other vault to find/steal women, which is morally sound'. Sounds like a quality fanfic to me! This is why nerds make the best managers.

Now Vault 68/69 are in California, right? The descriptions in Fallout 1 of the immediate post-war situation are extremely poor; much worse than that seen in Washington (where people build a town out of jet planes they dragged across the desert to a site TWO HUNDRED METERS FROM AN INTACT SMALL TOWN). Trained and equipped military forces often lost men simply moving around. I'm thinking the Overseer isn't going to be Brotherhood of Steel level, so moving around isn't going to be easy. Do the external communcation systems on the vault even work? We see that even when people know where they are, vaulters pretty much always just ignore them and keep the door closed. Didn't the Enclave have some way to convince people to come out?

So, in short, after spending a decade being a power-mad lunatic and then taking all the best equipment to cross the wasteland to a vault that probably won't open and possibly dying during the trip, how will the vault survive without it's leader? Will these decisions have made it better, or worse?

[Ryushikaze]

If I'm waiting til the door opens again to get out, I'm giving up on the V69 idea entirely. My primary goal is to be able to get out of my vault within a decade, maybe two at the out- but in all cases ASAP. I hope to achieve this either by tunneling a new exit, or figuring out how to crack the door code or just plain breaking the mechanism and using manpower to muscle the door off.
After that, I will merge my population with the extant survivors either in the wasteland and/ or in other Vaults, contacting V69 first with a very small and loyal group, and moving on to the other shelters.
If there are any surviving cars around (and in the FO games, there are a couple), that makes my job a lot easier, but that's just a pie in the sky sort of things.
Now, as far as I know, most clusters have their vaults located within a day's walking of each other, and I'm assuming 68 and 69 are in the same cluster since nearly nothing has been said of their locations in the official materials.
I'm fully aware that getting out is an extremely risky game, but a risky game with some chance of success is better than playing the game with none.

[Ryushikaze]

Ghetto edit:
And I do not believe V68 and 69 are in California. They are in the midwest somewhere as far as anyone can tell, the situation of which I have no clue about.
And I never said anything about conquering. My only intended use of force is against reprisals from 'Vault tec loyal' overseers- something I fear I might have to deal with- and raiders. Otherwise, I hope to be diplomatic, and try as best I damn can to be civil in the post nuclear hell hole.
Hell, my plan with V69 and other vaults is in all ways intended to be diplomatic and based on their cooperation than conquering.
Hell, I'm not even trying to say this plan is moral, because really, the lies and projects at the start are very morally questionable and I admit that without issue. But it's still better than doing nothing and letting the vault degenerate into utter madness.

[Junghalli]

Frankly, a lot of these plans read to me like they take what should be a worst-case scenario and assume it's what you start with. They seem to treat the bulk of the people who are under your responsibility not so much as potential assets as enemies who will be constantly straining against your control and who you'll have to control largely through force, threats, and lies. I mean split people into small groups and have them slave away all day on bullshit make-work projects? It's one thing to try to keep people busy so they don't stew in their own despair and frustration but this goes way beyond that. It is intended as a weapon to be used against them; a way to keep them weak and disorganized so they're easy for you to control, never mind that such a system will work to the detriment of actual productive projects like Operation Tunnel To The Surface. It is the thinking of a prison warden, not the leader of a community. Frankly, instead of starting with that as an assumption I think you should be trying to make sure it does not get that bad. The bulk of the people in the Vault hate your guts and would tear you apart if it weren't for the robots standing in the way is a situation you should be trying to avoid, not one you should be basing your Plan A around.

Thankfully, a lot of this thinking seems to be based on the dubious assumption that the only alternative to treating the Vault as a giant prison with you as the warden is a half-mad howling thousand-strong rape mob storming the barricades. Like with a lot of disaster scenarios that come up here, the responses to this seem full of the unstated Hobbesian assumption that the average person is a can of evil just waiting for the right stimulus to explode. Let me put it this way:

(1) I'm a 24 year old virgin. That means I have been celebate and capable of being bothered by it for over a decade now.
(2) Despite this I am not cool with rape or so desperate for pussy I would assault a woman if I could get away with it.
(3) In fact I do not look kindly on the sort of men who are and would be happy to help slap them down if need be.
(4) I do not believe I am an exceptionally nice or self-controlled person or have an exceptionally low libido (in other words, I do not believe I am really atypical).

I know that anecdotes are worthless but I think if you look around the real world you'll find plenty of men like me. Men who've managed to remain celibate for significant periods of time without going crazy or turning into rapists (and not just because they're too afraid of the cops). So even if everybody knows about the girl you are going to have at least a significant minority you can work with that will not be at your door like a horde of zombies only they're going "RAEP! RAEP!" instead of "brains! brains!", and who will be willing to help you keep down the rest. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think the "ZOMG I HAVEN'T HAD SEX IN 3 YEARS I MUST RAEP!" types are likely to be a minority. And if you just forget this and go with keeping the girl's presence a secret the men will have every reason to work with you and cooperate with you. Since you want to get out just like they do they have no rational reason at all to work against you. The only reason they might dislike you is if they think you're responsible for the situation, so of course it would be good to try to get them to think you weren't and are just another victim of the situation. And considering the situation I imagine most of them will be scared and looking for somebody they think can deliver them out of the horrible situation and would prefer to believe they are not in the hands of somebody running a sadistic experiment or something, especially since they can't really depose you or anything at least without massive casualties, given you have armed robots on your side. In such a situation shit like "let's split everybody into tiny groups so they're easier to control!" is unnecessary and dumb. In fact it's counterproductive, because they are not stupid and will probably be able to look at what's happening and put two and two together, and if they do it will seem to confirm their worst fears about you.

You can probably manage to get a lot of well-motivated people on your side by making it clear that you fundamentally want the same things they want and giving them hope that with your help the situation can be made better. Approaching it with the assumption that you are going to have to treat them like convicts in a prison is likely to turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Food for thought.

----

On a different note, I still think the Robohooker idea would be worth looking into. The main obstacle to creating such a thing is the brain, and you've already got that. Creating a humaniform robot body is comparitively easy, especially since we don't really need the same speed, fine motor control, and range of motion as an actual human. If we have the sort of facilities something like the Vault would need to have its tech base be sustainable I'm pretty confident we can whip up some functional human-shaped robot body we can plug a modified Mr Handy brain into. The biggest obstacle would probably be modifying the brain's software to control the humanoid body. Which may be insurmountable with the resources at hand, but it wouldn't hurt to give some software engineers a spare Mr Handy brain to play with. At the very least, it might make a decent make-work project.

[Ghost Rider]

LOL, that has to be one of the funniest things I've seen in this thread. Why? Because said person above is likely not a survivor of some end of all things, is comfortable in his dwelling, has a full belly, and has said comfort assured for the next few years if not longer. Whatever your personal anecdote is, actually having the arrogance to believe 999 other men share that with no idea of background, bereft of everything except basic food and the mental anguish of destruction of all that they have ever known? And add to that, if you're a part of the special that KNOWS she's the only woman for the next forty years? Yeah, enjoy the fun times ahead.

And oh yeah, before someone goes working to other interests or entertainment, this only works with the fact that you somehow stablize the basics, and since this vault throws out sex and represses it to it's most insane level...good luck there.

This particular experiment is essentially akin to Vault 69 with likely the same result. Death to everyone. We are talking about an experiment that is placing one of the most basic drive of all life into overdrive and seeing what would happen. Really, I'd go with Option C. Time to kill everyone mercifully and not prolong a sick social experiment meant to purposefully see what happens when you fuck with a person's basic survival interests by limiting the only other thing that is more important then food or shelter.

[Junghalli]

LOL, that has to be one of the funniest things I've seen in this thread. Why? Because said person above is likely not a survivor of some end of all things, is comfortable in his dwelling, has a full belly, and has said comfort assured for the next few years if not longer. Whatever your personal anecdote is, actually having the arrogance to believe 999 other men share that with no idea of background, bereft of everything except basic food and the mental anguish of destruction of all that they have ever known?

In my defense I didn't assume everyone involved would share my values, merely some. I'll conceed the point though, as I really don't feel qualified or inclined to get into an argument over how 1000 random people I don't know would probably act, and I'll happily admit evidence of how people who haven't just watched most of the things they love get blown up probably doesn't mean all that much here. So conceeded.

[Shroom Man 777]

Aha! We can have the populace try and break open the Vault! Escape! Freedom! Radioactive death!

Really, I like my idea best. Segregate them to small manageable groups, organized as "teams" or something with different colors. Nine hundred ninety nine people? Well, then nine teams of one hundred eleven people. Red team, orange team, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet and ultraviolet and infrared!

We can direct them to smash the Vault doors! A great ordeal of an effort that will last ages, but will be a great spectacle!

Oh! Oh! We can let them play SPORTS! Like, have decades-long playoffs! Well, maybe the rivalry will develop and they'll end up killing each other, but shit. We need something MANLY to pass the time since surrendering the Single Female Lawyer to gangrape is not an option.

Yeah. If bloodsport is not an option, just plain old sports will be. We can create a group of SPORTSMEN and the rest of the postapocalyptic internet fatties in the Vault can watch them do FEATS of CALLISTHENICS and WRESTLING, like the ancient Greco-Roman Olympics! Yes. I can pacify the entire populace by turning our time in the Vault into a decades long SUPERBOWL! Haha!

I'd try to promote the situational homosexuality Frod suggested. I think sports and letting the men have a TIME OUT to COOL OFF in the SHOWERS and LOCKER ROOMS will be crucial to this effort.

God. When my race of He-Men emerge from the bowels of the Earth, we're so gonna kick ass in the postapocalypse!

The Shroomanian Solution!

EDIT:

Fuck yeah! When the time lock expires and the Vault opens, my great VILLAGE PEOPLE will rampage rambunctiously in the postapocalyptic wastelands! Y-M-C-A! IN THE NAVY!

[Stark]

You forgot to spend your time developing a vault-based form of martial arts involving jumpsuits, laser pistols and sunglasses.

Speed of hand... speed of mind!

[Bounty]

Like with a lot of disaster scenarios that come up here, the responses to this seem full of the unstated Hobbesian assumption that the average person is a can of evil just waiting for the right stimulus to explode. Let me put it this way:

(1) I'm a 24 year old virgin. That means I have been celebate and capable of being bothered by it for over a decade now.
(2) Despite this I am not cool with rape or so desperate for pussy I would assault a woman if I could get away with it.
(3) In fact I do not look kindly on the sort of men who are and would be happy to help slap them down if need be.
(4) I do not believe I am an exceptionally nice or self-controlled person or have an exceptionally low libido (in other words, I do not believe I am really atypical).

Except you live in a world with shitloads of women, many of whom will have a consensual sexual relationship with you if you put some basic effort into it. Also there are hookers.

You are not a virgin because you have a healthy sex drive that's being oppressed from the outside, you're a virgin because you either don't want sex or don't want to make the effort to have sex. Neither of these conditions apply to this scenario, so your anecdote is less than useless. It's piss-easy to say "I don't want sex know" in the knowledge that it is an option open to you if you change your mind ten minutes from now and quite another coming to terms with the idea that you'll never have sex again ever because you're stuck in a hellish bunker for the bulk of your natural life.

[Hawkwings]

That sports idea isn't bad at all. It certainly solves the fitness problem, after all.

[Manus Celer Dei]

It also occurs to me that if we could modify a couple of these robots into mobile sex-doll thingies this might go a ways toward reducing the sexual frustration problem. I take it they're relatively humanoid, so such modification shouldn't be too hard; it would mostly be a matter of putting padding and fake skin over them.

Oh lol.

I suppose you could replace one of the arm-mounted tools with a fleshlight or something. The cheery british butler voice might be a little bit off-putting, however.

[Zixinus]

First, I'll get the GECK out. It has stuff that is useful and can prepare the Vault dwellers, including how to expand it. Building stuff and training people is a great make-work: it gets people busy and actually accomplishes something. If possible, I would also assign the making of weapons, robots and other tools.

Second, as much as I don't like it, the woman has to be killed, or at least hidden extremely well. Gang rape will be inevitable, and unless I can somehow store her into a hibernation-pod or something, she'll either live a life of being hidden away in a small room, a life of prostitution (at best, I can imagine her performing as some sort of "reward", making her a source of motivation) or a life of sexual slavery. I believe that she should be given the choice of the first free: suicide, self-prostitution or hermiticism. I will not risk having her become a destabilising force.
This is not the most moral solution, but from what I can see, this are the only solutions I have.
If she ops for hermiticism (and she will be a hermit: I cannot risk her immediate family spilling the beans on her), I will give her status updates.

Actually, on second thought, I might opt to put her into a artificial coma (at least, giving her the option, although I fear that ultimately it might be a false one). This would somewhat help me with my options regarding her. She can be tucked away with only a single doctor needed to be trusted in her care. The possibility of failure would lower than if she is kept uselessly concious for several years.
If she is discovered, than things still look a bit better: in case of rape, she will at least not remember the damage done to her; in case she becomes a cause of discontent, she could be painlessly killed; if the Shroomanian solution is viable, she could be woken up once the men are a bit less sex-crazed, even if she has aged.
As far as I can see, the coma option would be the best for her: she has a chance to survive untouched and undiscovered and wake up to a working civilization. If not, she will not experience suffering.

Third, I'll make certain dedicated, loyal teams:
- of mining engineers to start either destroying the door (it is only several inches of steel and you have years to work on the problem) or better, make another, hidden one. I think it would be in order to not keep the thing's word not too high a note at first, until I get the second item completed. In fact, I would keep a two-year wait period for things to cool down before I set them to work. This team would also include architects that would supervise Vault expansion and later, recolonization.
- of robot engineers so they can build a bach of small probe robots. I would prefer if they could be made in a way that they dig themselves out, collapsing the tunnel behind them so the Vault would be safe. I would task them at first to monitor radiation levels and map out the surrounding terrain and observe animal life.They would be the most vital team. If possible, I would include a sub-team of aeronautic engineers that would create small helicopters or planes that would better see the terrain. Chigaco was one of the most heavily damaged cities in the Fallout-universe.
- of loyal programmers or whatever would be the equivalent. They would have three tasks:
1. to make falsified video broadcasts, vault records and other information, so I can manipulate the expectations of people around me. I would also instruct them to develop education programs (that I can influence to my tastes).
2. to see what other mechanisations would be left in the Vault as part of the experiment. Cutting off the Enclave or making the Enclave believe that my vault is too irradiated to function would be a high priority.
3. To find ways to reprogram possible captured robots and to produce tools that would allow recapturing a more simple task.
- a team of charismatic artists and propagandists with the task of easing people into the idea of homosexuality. Whether we'll be stuck for 5 years or for 15 or however long it will take to make going out safe, homosexuality will be inevitable. They would give me insight at what everybody is thinking, allowing me greater control and feedback. I would also instruct them, when the time is appropriate, to start spreading ideas about survivalism so the population would become prepared for the outside world. Maintaining fitness would be a priority either way.

My plan is to use the robots to prepare the ground above. That option is the only one that can ensure survival. I wish to do a list of things with them before I allow anyone in the Vault to leave:
1. Map surrounding terrain. Note any presence of robots or armed anything is to be avoid. Possibly equip the probes to either dig themselves in for just such an occasion or to act "dead". They should also mark any possible loot places.

2. If possible, send observation posts that would monitor the surrounding land by video feed, along with stuff like radiation monitors. Build a radio receiver dish and map the EM spectrum for nearby (human) intelligence. Presumably, try to hide any link between these and the Vault in case they are discovered.

3. Send up Protectrons and other robots to begin clearing the area of any hostile mutants. If possible, one can start sending out highly and specially trained commandos, the most fit and most trained of my dwellers, with equipment or personal to take over any robot found. Both would also focus on securing loot, primarily industrial equipment that can be used to create more robots, secondarily on securing weapons, thirdly on getting more weapons and fourthly on more information and books.
They would also bring back specimens to study.

4. Find water and find ways to test its purity. In the Vault, make a team dedicated to finding ways to purify such a water, while instructing the robots to start building a channel for glasshouses. I would prefer hidden, underground glasshouses to free-land ones.

5. Start building houses, preferably half-submerged if not close to underground, eventually making it part of the Vault network. This saves us several of the problems with weather, gives us concealment and shelter, as well as making the population a bit more comfortable when they are given space. The Vault is a secure, safe heaven and should not be abandoned, but rather used as a core for expansion instead.

6. Once viable, take the air robot-designers and make them map out more distant terrain, in search of other human survivors. Hopefully, the male-female ration could be balanced.

[Stark]

I believe that she should be given the choice of the first free: suicide, self-prostitution or hermiticism. I will not risk having her become a destabilising force.

Do you believe this is a moral thing to do?

The idea of leaving early or destroying the door strikes me as retarded. The door can be opened if the outside environment is ok, so either it'll open or you'll be fucked going out there. The vault is too stupidly designed to have an airlock, so once you open it or breach the vault how are you going to maintain the environment?

The idea of building robots to tunnel out while collapsing the tunnel behind them is so fruity I can't even picture it. Talk about desperate.

Why the fuck would you have to 'find ways to test [water] purity'? That's trivial and something the vault would be well prepared for. Using protectrons (ie, worthless robots) to clear hostile mutants betrays a total ignorance of Fallout. Your protectrons would be slaughtered by anything other than wasps and rats. Since you destroyed your only security, god help you if a deathclaw shows up. Ironically that would even up the male:female ratio pretty fucking quick.

[Zixinus]

Do you believe this is a moral thing to do?

No. I believe the artifical coma would probably be the most moral thing to do: if anything else, it would disable the woman to experience suffering.

If that is not available in any form, then we are stuck with a very destabilising element that is also sentient. If she is an intelligent woman, she should see that and decide her own fate, but with the fact that she cannot hope to have a normal life in the Vault. Hermeticism would be the most moral, with fairly minimal suffering. Becoming a prostitute queen (either official or unofficial) would likely destabilise my authority and create problems for her. Suicide (or simple murder and the destruction of her corpse) would deny her any chance of experiencing long-term suffering and remove her as a destabilising element.

Either way, she should be handled quickly.

The idea of leaving early or destroying the door strikes me as retarded. The door can be opened if the outside environment is ok, so either it'll open or you'll be fucked going out there. The vault is too stupidly designed to have an airlock, so once you open it or breach the vault how are you going to maintain the environment?

Even if the Vault's design can be changed? The Geck tells how to make both forcefields and how to disassemble the Vault for surface living. The greatest issue would be moving dirt away.

Also, I noted that I would also wait for 2 years at least, for the war to cool down and some of the radiation. If that is not enough, I would wait more obviously. I doubt things will be magically tolerable right at the point it hits 40 years past. I admit that I am unsure of the details of the nuclear fallout or how damaged Chicago likely would be.

Destroying the door would be retarded, I agree. If anything, it would be better to create an alternative door, with an air lock and much higher security.

The idea of building robots to tunnel out while collapsing the tunnel behind them is so fruity I can't even picture it. Talk about desperate.

I see little reason why at least the possibility would be researched. The Vault is fully-equipped after all. I don't know about using the availability of resources, but I believe that some probes could be made from unneeded units and spare parts.

And really, this is the post-apocalypse: things are desperate. Do you have a better idea that would guarantee survival? Because as an Overseer, you can either document how 998 other men will live and die or try to contact the outside world. As an Overseer, which one do you think you have more moral commitment?

Why the fuck would you have to 'find ways to test [water] purity'?

I meant: tested by robots.

Also, the Vault is designed to have its own water supplies purified, not that of a heavily-irradiated river.

Using protectrons (ie, worthless robots) to clear hostile mutants betrays a total ignorance of Fallout.

Excuse me for not remembering the nerdy details about a single, non-important NPC type in a game I played at least months ago, if not more.

And even if so, so what? If I were an overseer, how would I know about the deathclaws and dangerous mutants?

That is why I send probes and would try to set up posts that would monitor the outside world for me, so I can go more prepared. Besides, who says that one cannot modify the protectron with more armour and better weapons, which I would be bound to do if I see the dangerous things out there?
And even if I don't have the robot population to do this course, I would still have some outside information that would allow me to plan any future excursions rather than blindly bust open the door and hope for the best.

[ryacko]

The events of Fallout 1 prove you can leave a vault.

Obviously the ideal course of action is training crack teams of men to send out on risky rescue missions in the outside, and create a spartan-style culture.


Although it'd make more sense if there was 1 woman for every 100 men, instead of 1000.

[Stark]

Either way, she should be handled quickly.

At least you're not pretending to be a white knight; openly oppressive is much better.

Even if the Vault's design can be changed? The Geck tells how to make both forcefields and how to disassemble the Vault for surface living. The greatest issue would be moving dirt away.

LOL! The biggest issue would be moving dirt when apparently building forcefields and disassembling an underground base in a radioactive, dust-blown, mutant-swarmed environment!

God help you if this is in an area near an FEV release.

Also, I noted that I would also wait for 2 years at least, for the war to cool down and some of the radiation. If that is not enough, I would wait more obviously. I doubt things will be magically tolerable right at the point it hits 40 years past. I admit that I am unsure of the details of the nuclear fallout or how damaged Chicago likely would be.

So what's the point in destroying the door? If it lets you open it normally if it's safe (I don't know if this is the case, Vault-Tec is pretty retarded) by the time it's safe you can just NOT RUIN YOUR DOOR.

Destroying the door would be retarded, I agree. If anything, it would be better to create an alternative door, with an air lock and much higher security.

So we're keeping the fluff about stupid Vault-Tec plan and ignoring the part where they were massively expensive long-term projects? YEAH JUST BUILD ANOTHER DOOR LOL! Even if you built an internal door you'd have to dig on the other side of it, which would kinda suck for the poor saps you sent to do it. Oh well?

I see little reason why at least the possibility would be researched. The Vault is fully-equipped after all. I don't know about using the availability of resources, but I believe that some probes could be made from unneeded units and spare parts.

'Fully equipped' doesn't mean 'invent underground bulldozers'. Vault-Tec didn't build the vaults with magical robots, but you can do better somehow?

And really, this is the post-apocalypse: things are desperate. Do you have a better idea that would guarantee survival? Because as an Overseer, you can either document how 998 other men will live and die or try to contact the outside world. As an Overseer, which one do you think you have more moral commitment?

PS, you're all going to die. Sorry.

I meant: tested by robots.

Also, the Vault is designed to have its own water supplies purified, not that of a heavily-irradiated river.

So you think the vault is 'fully equipped' to build a never-seen robot design and be disassembled from withing but you DON'T have radaway? That kinda means you're fucked when you ruin your vault digging a tunnel.

Excuse me for not remembering the nerdy details about a single, non-important NPC type in a game I played at least months ago, if not more.

Yeah sorry expecting you to know what you are talking about is pretty unreasonable.

And even if so, so what? If I were an overseer, how would I know about the deathclaws and dangerous mutants?

I wouldn't even know about them, so they'd surprise me and slaughter the entire vault. Oops.:p

That is why I send probes and would try to set up posts that would monitor the outside world for me, so I can go more prepared. Besides, who says that one cannot modify the protectron with more armour and better weapons, which I would be bound to do if I see the dangerous things out there?
And even if I don't have the robot population to do this course, I would still have some outside information that would allow me to plan any future excursions rather than blindly bust open the door and hope for the best.

BTW, what's up with the door room? In the games vaults are routinely disabled by internal contaminants; the doors obviously do not seal the rooms (perhaps there are unsealable vents or something). Can the door room be sealed at all?

[PeZook]

BTW, what's up with the door room? In the games vaults are routinely disabled by internal contaminants; the doors obviously do not seal the rooms (perhaps there are unsealable vents or something). Can the door room be sealed at all?

Uh, what? The only vault disabled by a contaminant was the one with hallucinogen released into the air (man, talk about a useless experiment: what would happen if we exposed a society to potent hallucinogenic gas? I wonder...) and it was deliberately introduced. All the other ones have airlocks leading into the door room, and were usually destroyed due to (equally useless) social experiments.