Doctor Who "The End of Time Part 2" [spoilers]

[Methos]

Firstly Hi... i know i'm new here but i wanted to post my thoughts in here before i do a full introduction post...

I thought this episode was alright... a fitting way to bring in the 11th Doctor... i'll admit though, there were some things that made me cringe and want to scream at RTD for even thinking of them...

The whole Time Lords will bring about the End of Time as a final sanction... that was just a level of stupidity on it's own... The Time Lords of old would never do anything like that... they prized noninterfierance about everything else, it was their prime directive so to speak... the 2nd Regeneration actually had his 3rd Regeneration forced upon him by the high council because he interfiered with other cultures too much. After the Doctor was found guilty of breaking the Time Lord laws of non-interference and forced to regenerate, he was actually exiled to Earth because the Time Lords found proof that he was interfering with the universe too much...

Now, the actual insult to injury here... the one thing that made me scream "What the f**k!!!" at the TV, was when The Doctor called the crown prince of idiots, Tim Daltons character, RASSILON... wtf... seriously, anyone, especially someone working as a writer on the TV show, anyone should know that Rassilon died eons ago... literally, he was around in the golden age of Time Lords. He was around in the serious distant past, back when Omega and The Other were around... There is no way he was around for The Time War or anything like that... he died off eons before The Great Vampire War in Doctor Who timeline, nothing at all to do with the Time War or anything like that.

Ok, it did have some good bits though... though i'm hard pressed to actually think of them... His goodbye to all companions and friends was a nice touch, actually giving them some sort of closiour before he regenerated, and before them meet 11... possibly...

But anyway, those are my thoughts on it...

As for the Woman who warned Wilf and popped up behind Rassilon (Spit)... Smart money is on Romana... I'm seriously hoping it is and that they are going to finish the Romana storyline properly... But sadly, i have a feeling that it's going to turn out to be something stupid like The Doctor's mother, and they are going to f**k up continuity even more by bringing in a f**ked up storyline about Time Lord's regenerating sexually... pathetic...

M

[Bedlam]

Now on to the plot hook/mystery of the episode: who was the lady in white (the one who warned Wilfred and stood behind the Lord President). My moneys on the White Guardian (though he was male last time we saw him).

I'd say Romana might be a better guess.

[Gramzamber]

There's something definitely ironic about the two ladies behind Rassilon continually face-palming, even if that isn't the intention..

[andrewgpaul]

Wilf asked the Doctor who the Time Lady in white was, and he looked at Donna. Take that as you will ...

[Starglider]

Gah. Utterly hideous. Probably the same thing that happened with the last episode of Enterprise; delusional writers & producers genuinely thought they were writing a 'love letter to the fans', when in fact they were handing them a shit sandwich.

[doctorwhofan]

What a miserable bunch of absolute cunts.

You don't deserve Doctor Who. Go and watch Stargate or something.

[Big Orange]

Here's two online reviews of "The End of Time Pt. 2":

Opinion: The End Of Time
by Aaron Asadi

As a rule, I don’t like the voice of our magazine to contradict itself. On team, we share very similar tastes but when we don’t agree we endeavour to maintain a front that is at least consistent; you might notice that we don’t, for example, alter our original review scores for a film once it has been released on DVD. So please forgive this column as an exception to our rule; again, this is merely my own opinion and not that of the magazine’s. It exists merely because I feel compelled to express my thoughts on the end of Russell T Davies’ successful Who run, and I feel so compelled because, well, I thought it was bloody awful.

Firstly, context: my personal expertise lies in sci-fi cinema and American comics. I don’t protest to have a firm grip on the intricacies of Who’s past as I’m sure Mr Davies does and as I know Mr Rilstone does. I have tried on several occasions to better relate to Who but I simply feel that it isn’t for me. But then I suppose that the genre jewel in the BBC’s crown wasn’t ever supposed to be for anyone who can recite every line from Verhoeven’s RoboCop. When I have watched the programme I found it to be overly silly, horribly cheap, strangely derivative and, despite a terrific cast, full of irritating performances. Indeed, it comes as no surprise to me (in fact, quite a relief) to hear Russell T Davies frequently refer to the show as something children will enjoy. Of course, he has never explicitly stated, at least to my knowledge, that it is only for children but certainly for me they have always seemed to be the target audience. I genuinely feel as though Doctor Who wouldn’t be out of place on CBBC. And while it might be no bad thing to make a show for a younger audience, I hope my implied criticism is understood as intended.

To summarise: I don’t like New Who, so please bear that in mind if you choose to read on.

The End Of Time was a poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed television special. It would be unfair to the countless other TV programmes we, as an audience, regularly review to label it as anything else. I could not, in good conscience, sit here and write that it comes anywhere close to the likes of Caprica, Supernatural or V – all flawed shows – in terms of quality. It is not enough to say that it is Who and therefore incomparable to anything else or by any other standard: it is science fiction television that, if we are to accept it as not just a children’s show, must be judged in relation to other mainstream science fiction TV shows. It is our duty as critics, and as members of a wider SF community, to recommend that which we feel deserves to be. I recommend you watch and debate Caprica, I recommend you watch the first five seasons of The X Files, I recommend you see Firefly (instantly if you haven’t already, and again if you have), I recommend you watch Red Dwarf I-VI. I recommend that you don’t see The End Of Time.

The End Of Time begins with very serious characters warning other serious characters that something very serious is about to happen. It’s all very serious. More experienced/cynical/hardened sci-fi viewers will instantly recognise what’s actually going on: nothing. If a story’s characters spend most of their time hyping up the story they’re in and the rest of the time explaining what’s going on in the story to each other, then there isn’t a story. The Master, The Ood, The Narrator (who is later revealed to be Double-0 Time Lord) and even The Doctor get in on the act, discussing events past and warning each other about things that will definitely happen, even though they might not. It’s a load of utter nonsense and absolutely not what a good story should be.

The rest of the first half plays out in similar fashion with a great deal of posturing, Zoolander-esque staring and not much else. The story we’re told so much about finally threatens to get going when The Doctor chases The Master, who seems to have turned into Emperor Palpatine (more on that in a bit), but then there’s just more talking about what’s going to happen only with more, even less interesting characters who are determined to add yet more plot. It was at this point that I contemplated making notes, complete with annotated diagram, to make sense of it all but then I realised that I had understood it all perfectly: it really was just that bad.

In truth, my interest did pique a little when The Master turned into everyone but as a result of Davies’ ambition to make his Who swansong The Most Epic Thing Ever this feeling was almost immediately crushed by the introduction of the Time Lords. There is simply no way, I thought, that after an hour’s worth of set-up and forced surprises, Davies can resolve this well. And I was right.

It was always going to be difficult to follow such a big cliffhanger but even I didn’t think Part Two would fail as miserably as this. ‘The Master as everyone’ amounted to bugger all very quickly, not unless you count John Simm talking to himself instead of regular henchmen as thrilling anyway. Clearly Davies had no idea where he was really going with this, just a good idea of where he wanted to be by the end of Part One. The eventual arrival of the Time Lords (with planet in tow) promised a little more but as with so much in The End Of Time, this was soon revealed to be a problem far more easily solved than anyone could have reasonably expected (a bullet to an admirably poorly hidden contraption should do it)… but only after much more talking, naturally.

In the midst of all this plot and disappointment was a moderately ambitious action sequence involving The Doctor, his mates, Starbug and a load of missiles. And I probably would have enjoyed it too were it not for the distracting nods to Star Wars. It wasn’t just here that Lucas’ series is referenced either, but in about four or five other areas. For the life of me I have absolutely no idea why Davies seemed so intent on including these references. If I was more cynical I might suggest that they were only included to imply a depth that really isn’t there at all. It’s a similar thing with the story as a whole too: The End Of Time pretends there’s a lot going on, it tells us there’s a lot going on, but really there isn’t much going on at all, only one or two incidents that are quickly rectified once the buggers have stopped chatting.

Before I get on to the ending of The End, though, I would like to address a defence of Doctor Who that frequently rears its head and will inevitably do so again soon. The defence in question is the one that goes something like this: “But you can’t judge it too harshly as it just doesn’t have the production values of other shows.” My rebuttal: Star Trek. If they could consistently make excellent, exciting sci-fi TV on a shoestring budget back in the Sixties with little more than a cardboard set, fine actors and quality scripts then they should damn sure be able to achieve similar results now. With Who, Davies and his team haven’t, and much of the blame lies at the feet of the woefully loose scripts.

As for The Ending… much will depend on how you felt about the 45 minute final reel of The Return Of The King. I hated it. And it’s not because seeing characters wave to each other while looking a bit weepy is overly sentimental either – it’s because it’s self-indulgent twaddle. Seeing David Tennant’s Who mope about for what seemed to be an eternity is not good drama; it doesn’t matter how talented the actor may be (and, for the record, I think Tennant is a very talented one), characters are best served by story not farewells. I’m sure Davies was aiming for something more than he delivered with this but nevertheless it seemed a strange decision to have such a famously outrageous hero go out on such a pathetic whimper. Sill, at least in this respect The End Of Time was consistent.

Oh, and as for Matt Smith… we shall see. Or maybe, like me, you won’t be bothered.

SciFi Now

TV REVIEW Doctor Who "The End Of Time" Part Two

Written by: Russell T Davies

Directed by: Euros Lyn

Rating: *****

Right. Okay. I'm chickening out.

There are probably people internet wide on forums moaning about the plot not making sense, or the fact that the Time War was resolved by a bullet in a piece of plot device, or another standing up regeneration, or the appearance of a Slitheen, or the fact that the weeping angels being fallen Time Lords is daft, or Rose ruining everything, or the whole last 15 minutes being an indulgent piece of twaddle...

You know what? I don't care. I loved it. Unreservedly.

And I can't review it properly tonight. I'm on too much of a high. As I said, chickening out. For once, I'm going to sleep on it and post a proper review tomorrow. But the for those of you who hated it, sorry but it won't be a bad review. I admit, it was creaky in places and if such things are the make or break for you, fair enough.

But I even got excited when I saw an Adipose. That's the kinda high I'm on.*

And here are three texts I've received so far:

"Great finale. Very clever writing, genuinely unexpected. Incredibly sad yet resonant final words. All the end bits a treat for fans."

"Wahey! That was brilliant! I could even forgive the rather indulgent long goodbye. Wonderful final line from DT and I'm already convinced Matt Smith will be a worthy successor!"

"Oh blimey! It was a bit emotional! I didn't want him to change!"

"$%&&!! **!@^&!"

And an email from SFX's Richard Edwards:

"As good as I could possibly have hoped for – as I write this I'm still shedding some manly tears. It had all the scale and bombast we've come to expect from a Who finale, but at the same time never lost sight of the intimate story of a man who knows his time is up. I loved the idea that the Master's madness was caused by the Time Lords – this was a great piece of sci-fi storytelling – but ultimately the plot pales into insignificance next to the emotional power of the last half hour, as Russell showed Lord Of The Rings how to pull off an extended ending. And while a big part of me shares the Tenth Doctor's feelings about not wanting to go, Matt Smith's cry of "geronimo" has made me very excited about the Steven Moffat era."

And that's all you're getting tonight. Except… Goodbye David and Russell. Thank you.

And… did Moffat write those lines for Matt?

And, yeah I did recognise the song in the nightclub.

And… I genuinely feel like I've watched something very special indeed.

Dave Golder

SFX

[Flakin]

Here's the youtube link for next year's preview for those outside of the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esqeAqrKKA4

[Darksider]

well, on the plus side, we do see him uppercutting a guy, shooting a gun, and assaulting a Dalek with a crowbar, so it looks like this Doctor isn't going to be afraid to get his hands dirty.

[Vympel]

On the minus side, we see a fucking Dalek. As if we haven't seen enough of them to last 20 years worth of Doctor Who.

[NecronLord]

Edit: As an aside, in the brief time Gallifrey existed in the universe again, what's to stop some Time Lords who aren't complete jelly-heads under Rassilon's thumb from hopping on their TARDISes and legging it to the end of the universe ala the Master? Future storyline perhaps?

*Eyes the new Dr Who P&P RPG sitting on his bookshelf*

Nothing, really.

[NecronLord]

Also, for anyone complaining about Rassilon, if you know who he is, then you really ought to know that five Doctors had him overthrown and imprisoned according to the Black Scrolls. While some of that was lies to trick presidents who wanted to rule forever, there's no reason to think that was untrue - it's said by several characters in the Five Doctors that there are dark rumours about Rassilon and his cruelty.

[Ariphaos]

How was he to know that the machine would be so easily disabled?

Hell, how would he know it was right there?

On that count, since it did not in fact end with deus ex machina, it beat my expectations. RTD has improved as a writer.

Not enough that I'd trust him to write Doctor Who if he went back in time, but still.

[NecronLord]

Incidentally, Rassilon's outfit seems to be a callback to Omega's (another Time Lord of the same period) in Arc of Infinity here with the neck area and the seal on his chest.

[Vympel]

Well, I've seen it now. I hated it. It was RTD at his worst - loud, bombastic, overindulgent, incomprehensible, sentimental tripe.

[Blayne]

I liked the episode and declare it good.

I don't have standards so much as "did I enjoy the movie, laugh at the right parts and cry at the right parts? And at the edge of the seat for the right parts?" Yes.

FINGERS! LOTS OF FINGERS!

[Xon]

It wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting, but it was still quite horrible.

[mr friendly guy]

Now, the actual insult to injury here... the one thing that made me scream "What the f**k!!!" at the TV, was when The Doctor called the crown prince of idiots, Tim Daltons character, RASSILON... wtf... seriously, anyone, especially someone working as a writer on the TV show, anyone should know that Rassilon died eons ago... literally, he was around in the golden age of Time Lords. He was around in the serious distant past, back when Omega and The Other were around... There is no way he was around for The Time War or anything like that... he died off eons before The Great Vampire War in Doctor Who timeline, nothing at all to do with the Time War or anything like that.

Actually he didn't. In the old series "The five doctors" he is shown to still be alive. He is immortal having discovered it in the distant past.

Ok, so my comments.

Meh, I will give it a 3 out of 5. Out of the 5 finales RTD did, only one of them (Doomsday) turned out to be nice after starting off promising (that is all started off promising, ie RTD can set things up, but he can't knock them down).

What was good

1. The Doctor's emo moment actually helped this scene, followed by when he does what Spock did in the wrath of kahn.

2. The montage - I think this was a nice touch. The only problem was this took away time for proper plot development (see my section on what was bad).

3. Timothy Dalton er I mean Rassilon is bad arse. The way he easily reversed the Master's plan with a flick of his gauntlet.

What was bad

1. Time Lords were defeated in only a few minutes. Shite, did they not think about securing the link. Rassilon could use his gauntlet to defeat the Master, yet he never thought about using it to disentegrate the Doctor. Even if they explained it away as the glove needed to recharge, it would still suck.

2. RTD says, but doesn't show. The doctor numerous times mentioned about how bad the Time War was, what monsters came out of it. Yet he never showed even in flash back. I mean the Skaro depradations, the horde of travesties, and the Nightmare Child who could have been king but never was (presumably he was wiped out before existence due to time travel). Seriously these teasers worked well at the start, but eventually you have to stop teasing your audience and actually show.

I mean, if the war was just TL vs Daleks, where do all these other "hellish" forces come from. Its like RTD just likes making cool sounding names to show how badass the Time War was. This might not be a bad idea given RTD's writing ability - I simply cannot imagine him having the skill to write about it without screwing up.

Few notes

1. Rassilon is back - ok, so he somehow ursurped the presidency since he is supposed to be in his eternal sleep. I eagerly await those from outpost gallifrey crying out about continuity and how newbies would get confused.

2. The Time Lords are evil - not that bad a plot "twist". Rassilon was a git from canon records, albeit it was only rumours the Doctor had heard, legends passed down. The EU certainly showed him like that. So its not surprising that The Time Lords have taken a darker path especially when they had to fight the Time War.

3. The Armageddon Factor

Ok so the TL want to screw all of creation. Noted in several EU records of time wars that the Time Lords are willing to do that as a last resort, so its not unreasonable. I have a feeling RTD is channeling various EU authors here.

4. Oh, look its the anarchitects and RTD channels Lawrence Miles

Ok in the EU in one of the time wars the TL will engage in their enemy creates entities of thought to be used as weapons against the TL with the aid of renegade TL. These entities are called anarchietcs.

In the EU various Time Lords fearing that the Time Lords will lose one of their time wars, do a similar thing and transforms themselves into beings of pure thought which somehow allows them to avoid casuality and the destruction from the Time Wars. Obviously The Time Lords here have the same idea.

5. The Ood have bad dreams.

I suspect Time itself is helping the Ood to become a time active power, so they could warn the Doctor. Obviously time has had enough of the time war.

Nice touch
During the montage the doctor visits one Verity Newman, who is the descendent of that chick the Doctor met in The family of Blood. The name is an obvious montage of Verity Lambert (Doctor Who's first producer) and Sydney Newman (The creator of the Doctor who series).

So who won the Time War?

Why its the Doctor of course. I am guess "the moment" is some weapon, presumably not TL in origin. Because if it was, why didn't they use it against the Daleks and win instead of needing to use the armageddon factor / scorched earth tactics. That however leads to an interesting speculation.

Wouldn't the Time Lords have "won" assuming the Doctor didn't stop them. The universe gets destroyed, but so do the Daleks while the TL survive. We know from the annuals as the war dragged on Skaro was destroyed while Gallifrey was still standing. The daleks launch a last desperate assault which was destroyed by the Doctor's use of "the moment" which also destroyed Gallifrey (as opposed to what I had previously thought that the Daleks had breached Gallifrey's defenses and the Doctor uses a doomsday weapon to "draw" the war).

To be fair we don't know whether the TL would have withstood that last dalek assault, but the Doctor has mentioned that the Time Lords were even scarier than the Daleks, so I wonder whether they would have won, especially since RTD had to make them the Doctors worse enemies.

How someone with sense would have done it

Doctor points the gun at Rassilon. Rassilon tells the Doctor to choose wisely. The doctor points out that the gauntlet needs time to recharge, and that Rassilon made a mistake. He didn't need to restore all of the human race, now he is helpless. The doctor then promptly shoots Rassilon in the head.

Now from the novels its unclear whether Rassilon can regenerate being the first TL and the one responsible for introducing the regeneration technology to the TL. But since he is immortal its a moot point. Any way while the TL are too stunned to react, the Doctor snatches the gauntlet, counting down the time needed for it to recharge. He then promptly disentegrates Rassilon. Wilf asks is he dead, and the Doctor replies Rassilon is immortal. His lifeforce still exists.

The Doctor then tells the Time Lords you don't have to do this. I KNOW HOW TO WIN THE TIME WAR. As ex president the Doctor claims the presidency (hey if Rassilon could reclaim it, why can't the Doctor).

The Doctor tells the Time Lords they must choose several Time Lords, presumably with plenty of regenerations left. They then enter the heart of a TARDIS and temporarily absorb the power of the vortex ("The parting of ways"). Using this new power they kick the Dalek's arse. They "recycle" as many regenerations as needed, since they kind of have the means of extend regenerations ("The Five Doctors"). After wiping the floor with their enemies, the TL then set about the arduous task of fixing the damage from the Time War. This puts them out of the way for the next season and allows them turn up when the big bad threat turns up.

At least this way the reset button doesn't just get hit and the Time Lords disappear again. Also since RTD already introduced that deus ex machina plot device of the heart of the TARDIS grants god like powers, it at least makes sense that someone would use it. Its understandable that the Doctor doesn't do it again and again since he gives up a life, however TL can grant a new set of regeneration thus removing this nasty limitation.

[Darwin]

Now, the actual insult to injury here... the one thing that made me scream "What the f**k!!!" at the TV, was when The Doctor called the crown prince of idiots, Tim Daltons character, RASSILON... wtf... seriously, anyone, especially someone working as a writer on the TV show, anyone should know that Rassilon died eons ago... literally, he was around in the golden age of Time Lords. He was around in the serious distant past, back when Omega and The Other were around... There is no way he was around for The Time War or anything like that... he died off eons before The Great Vampire War in Doctor Who timeline, nothing at all to do with the Time War or anything like that.

the time war encompassed about a billion years once it started. The council could *easily* have decided they needed to resurrect their Greatest Hero for the war, deposing Romana who would have certainly opposed something so daft, taking herself off to E-space to survive the whole mess.

As for the Woman who warned Wilf and popped up behind Rassilon (Spit)... Smart money is on Romana... I'm seriously hoping it is and that they are going to finish the Romana storyline properly... But sadly, i have a feeling that it's going to turn out to be something stupid like The Doctor's mother, and they are going to f**k up continuity even more by bringing in a f**ked up storyline about Time Lord's regenerating sexually... pathetic...

My vote's for Susan, and the clues point that way.

[Zac Naloen]

For anyone interested in the new series, http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/ has a preview up.

Only for Brits. Someone Youtube that shit ASAP!

I goes without saying but Holy shit is the new companion hot.



Oh and Spoiler

I see angel statues.

[andrewgpaul]

On the minus side, we see a fucking Dalek. As if we haven't seen enough of them to last 20 years worth of Doctor Who.

Yes, because clearly, they're going to do away with the series' most well-known villains. The TARDIS and Daleks are about the only things the general public really knows about Doctor Who.

On the other hand, it might have just been the lighting, but that one didn't look like a bronze Time War Dalek.

(WTF? Firefox's spellcheck has "Klingon" but not "Dalek"? )

[Bounty]

On the other hand, it might have just been the lighting, but that one didn't look like a bronze Time War Dalek.

Rumour has it
Spoiler

They're not Dalek Daleks, but a more sinister knock-off.

[mr friendly guy]

It didn't look like a time war era dalek. Personally I think they should give the daleks a break and introduce new villains. Makes for more variety and gives them more toys to sell.

And I want a Rassilon figure. Timothy Dalton looked awesome in his scenes. Its a pity he was let down by RTD's script. That being said Rassilon was pretty badass in the EU, and aside from that moment where he just allows the Doctor to blow up the link, he was still cool, manipulating the Master to bring the TL back and undoing the Master's plan with a flick of the wrist.

Another thought I had. The Timelock seems to be some sort of technobabble barrier preventing time travel through certain points related to the time war. The TL clearly could still manipulate time within the time lock (since they just retroactively caused the Master to hear the sound of drums). The Gallifreyan high council clearly breached the Time Lock for a brief period of time since Rassilon could effect things on earth. Also time lock can be breached (ask Dalek Caan) albeit with difficulty. So when the Gallifreyan high council returned back into the Time War period, the time lock resealed again.

Why couldn't the TL just reseal the time lock before something else got out. If the whole planet transiting would break the time lock, another possible plot point could have the TL send numerous TARDISes through and letting Gallifrey perish. This way they don't need to go all "end of time" on us.

[mr friendly guy]

BTW - why are we putting spoilers for rumours. Unless these we have reasons to believe they have substance, ie leaked from BBC, they would have as much chance of spoilerising (is that even a word) the material than if said I speculate these daleks were created by the Black Guardian for some nefarious purpose purely because I think Moffat likes to have a nod to the old series.

[Captain Seafort]

On the other hand, it might have just been the lighting, but that one didn't look like a bronze Time War Dalek.

It had Time War Dalek dome lights, but it had the old series' grey colour scheme.