SGU 119, Incursion Part 1 (Spoilers)

[Vympel]

What, no Zats? Bullshit.

And why exactly do they have G36s?

I agree, Young is awful.

[Temujin]

Thinking about it some more, I could see no staff weapons (although a heavy weapon based on the tech would be viable), but I would think Zats would be standard.

It would be also pretty cool to see them adapt some other elements of Goa'uld technology:

• - Body armor based on Jaffa tech, i.e., the morphing helmet tech, but more like how it was done in the Lost in Space movie. With advances in digital special effects this shouldn't be too hard to do now.
  - Stun grenades based on the Jaffa design.
  - Goa'uld personal shields.
  - Goa'uld healing/torture devices (I believe it also had the force blast capability)

I'm curious, are there any major budget constraints for SGU that would limit them from using more of the special effects we've seen previously?

[NecronLord]

What, no Zats? Bullshit.

And why exactly do they have G36s?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they actually are G36s. The Tau'ri have spread their weapons out a bit, and Apophis was easily able to equip an entire company of faux-Tau'ri with fully functional equipment.

Of course, this should have been explained, and presto, problem solved.

It would also be kinda cool to see them looking at bullets in some future episode, otherwise identical to 5.56 NATO but with goa'uld writing on the base.

[NecronLord]

I'm curious, are there any major budget constraints for SGU that would limit them from using more of the special effects we've seen previously?

I think they're actually rather embarrassed about some of the concepts in older episodes, and don't want to use them again. Notice the thing Rush was tortured with in the last episode was quite different from the full size goa'uld version; more like a taser than producing the light-from-the-mouth effect.

[Temujin]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume they actually are G36s. The Tau'ri have spread their weapons out a bit, and Apophis was easily able to equip an entire company of faux-Tau'ri with fully functional equipment.

Of course, this should have been explained, and presto, problem solved.

It would also be kinda cool to see them looking at bullets in some future episode, otherwise identical to 5.56 NATO but with goa'uld writing on the base.

Wouldn't it be better for them to use those directed energy rounds from that episode. I thought they had the ability to switch from either stun to kill, which would be a good feature. Even if they didn't originally, they could always say the LA developed it on their own.

I think they're actually rather embarrassed about some of the concepts in older episodes, and don't want to use them again. Notice the thing Rush was tortured with in the last episode was quite different from the full size goa'uld version; more like a taser than producing the light-from-the-mouth effect.

I was kind of worried that might be the case as well. I hope they don't start retconning stuff, at least not too much; though I thought I remember some discussion about something being possibly retconned already in one of the earlier SGU threads.

[NecronLord]

Wouldn't it be better for them to use those directed energy rounds from that episode.

No they didn't. They just replaced Intar (stun) bullets with kill ones on the Earth guns.

I was kind of worried that might be the case as well. I hope they don't start retconning stuff, at least not too much; though I thought I remember some discussion about something being possibly retconned already in one of the earlier SGU threads.

The writers are basically ignoring the idea that Zat guns can vapourise things, and have been for a while.

[Gramzamber]

I don't think it's embarassment (however much SGU tries to be "real" and "hardcore", it's not working anyway).
The same thing happened with Atlantis and why the expedition didn't carry Zats while the SGC did. The producers have this really stupid notion of keeping the shows distinct, so props from one rarely transfer to the other as is.

[NecronLord]

Oooh no, they specifically don't like how powerful they made Zats. They've said as much.

[Mlenk]

I found it odd that the LA would be using earth based weapon-tech likes machine guns. Has SG-1's (and Earth's) success over the Goauld made earth weaponry popular or something? From what I can remember of SG-1, no one other than people from Earth really used projectile-based weapons.

[Alyeska]

What, no Zats? Bullshit.

And why exactly do they have G36s?

I agree, Young is awful.

The Lucian Alliance has been on Earth many times. For all we know they love Earth weapon technology and have been smuggling weapons off Earth.

[Temujin]

The writers are basically ignoring the idea that Zat guns can vapourise things, and have been for a while.

I do recall that, but that was done long before SGU. I thought there was some talk about them recently retconning something via SGU.

[JME2]

I agree, it's odd that Kiva's faction weren't using Zats or any other Goa'uld tech for their incursion.

[Alyeska]

Zats and personal shields would have been pretty wicked. And using such equipment could explain how a relative few Lucian Alliance members, say only a dozen, could be a significant threat to Destiny.

[NecronLord]

I found it odd that the LA would be using earth based weapon-tech likes machine guns. Has SG-1's (and Earth's) success over the Goauld made earth weaponry popular or something? From what I can remember of SG-1, no one other than people from Earth really used projectile-based weapons.

The Lucians used guns in the later SG1, but their own designs.

[spaceviking]

I would like to see the LA use weapons that are a combination of human design and gould tech. For example a rifle shaped weapon that fires a lower powered staff weapon charge. It seems logical that the LA would see the ergonomic flaws in the gould weaponry in comparison to earth weapons, but they come from societies that have never used projectile weapons. Their manufacturing base should favour the creation of energy weapons.

More importantly I think this episode clearly shows Eli is giving Lt. James a run for biggest tits on Destiny.

[Temujin]

I would like to see the LA use weapons that are a combination of human design and gould tech. For example a rifle shaped weapon that fires a lower powered staff weapon charge. It seems logical that the LA would see the ergonomic flaws in the gould weaponry in comparison to earth weapons, but they come from societies that have never used projectile weapons. Their manufacturing base should favour the creation of energy weapons.

More importantly I think this episode clearly shows Eli is giving Lt. James a run for biggest tits on Destiny.

Well lets just hope we aren't subjected to Eli in a wet t-shirt.

I would have thought that they would have had the actor lose some weight to add realism. If anything he looks like he's getting bigger.

[adam_grif]

I thought the Lucian Alliance were using FAMAS's in the episode? Doth my memory decieve me?

I was fully expecting them to have personal shields when they came through the gate as well, but then they never materialised.

[Oskuro]

People, remember that the Goauld zealously guarded their technological knowledge, wich was transmitted genetically. I doubt the Lucian Alliance can retro-engineer Goauld tech easily (Earth military had trouble doing so too without Asgard help, the hyperdrive used in Prometheus was defined as crude by the Goauld they got to help them fix it). It is one thing for them to seize and use already built Goauld ships that any old Jaffa could command, but the intricacies of building personal shielding or energy weapons might have been lost with the Goauld. Not to mention that the personal shields, healing devices, and hand blasters all required the user to be a current or former symbiote host.
It makes sense for the LA to use simpler (and very effective, mind you) human tech, particularly since I bet they can simply drop by Earth with their stealth ships and get shipments of earth-made guns through their contacts.

As for the episode, I'm really not looking forward to the hostage and military drama that will ensue. The disintegration, as well as Eli and Chloe wandering through new sections, raised my hopes that there would be some interesting science fiction stuff coming up, you know, instead of a script that is, pretty much, Die Hard on a spaceship. Minus McClane.

Oh, and like as I do the exploration of new sections of the ship, I did some major eye-rolling when Eli explained where they were. I literally spoke out his lines before he did "I don't know where we are" "some unexplored area" "no one has come out here". And we also get to find out that there is in fact something more useless that Chloe... Wounded Chloe! Really, did they really need to make her a damsel in distress?

And I was kind of surprised by Carter leaving two pilots behind. It is a logical action to take, but since SG-1 often focused on that decision being wrong (because by waiting a few seconds the team could be saved) I guess I've been indoctrinated to dislike it.

Anyone else notice how the ship groaned after the gate connected? Maybe they broke something this time around. Or maybe an incoming 9-Chevron wormhole from an unauthorized source has triggered some sort of self defense mechanism, one that's been dormant so long it's causing quite a ruckus getting online. That, or head-drilled guy is trying to pull a O'Neill and be wacky while merged with the ship.

TJ being captured, was predictable and retarded. Jeez, let's get more drama by having a pregnant hostage Young is concerned about, weee! Is TJ so incompetent as a soldier as to endanger herself and her baby walking near the conflict zone and getting herself captured? Because unless she was stationed a hallway away from the gateroom, she really had to chase Rush for quite a while to be captured like that.


Still, all in all, decent episode, and I hope they stick with Telford being a good guy, because I'm tired of the duplicity thing being done with EVERYONE.

[JME2]

in a tense, drammatic way that Voyager could only have dreamed about?

Seems to me that this show is doing a lot of things that Voyager or Atlantis wanted to do but failed at pretty spectaclarly.

Not really. They get a free ride because the Destiny is already a crumbling piece of crap whereas Atlantis and Voyager were pristine, they've already killed the sense of isolation with the communication stone abuse and all they've really done is turn the nBSG ANGST meter up to 10,000 kilobaltars and left it there.

In regards to the stones, I keep thinking about Rush words from the last Season 1.5 trailer:

"We are on our own out here."

These haven't appeared anywhere else in the season so far. If Kiva can take the communication room and her team is repelled, I can easily see Kiva or one of her lieutenants destroying the stones to spite Young. It would allow them to be cut off from Earth for good. And I'm hoping Telford survives; it would make for an interesting dynamic as he was supposed to take command anyway in the first place.

[Themightytom]

I liked it, and the last episode...

..because SG-1 is running around trying to get shit done in the background. is this was Stargate Command would have looked like?

I'm not entirely sure why Carter didn't just beam either the 302s or the pilots onto the hammond before jumping. oops.

A naquadriah laced planet???? Naquadriah, not naquidah?? Well fuck me and all this crap about the planets "Unique properties" we already KNOW how to make a planet like this, in fact kalowna almost did it by accident.

Keevah is kind of a feral monstrosity of a leader, i don't see that ending well.

Telford got fucked by the Fashion police, becaue he's stuck on the Destiny for the foreseeable future wearing flannel. Thanks Rush.

T.J Is Fail. I still suspect that the baby is not making it through the next episode

Young is bipolar. First he's a badass with Wrae and Scott, not telling them what he's trying to do, next he's sentimental ABOUT TELFORD?? Or Rush? Whichever man he's tried to kill? Either way he obviously should have depressurized the bay Even after he saw telford come through he could have just depressurized the bay, RETRIVED him and revived him. Put Grear and someone else in space suits standing on either side of the gate ready to mow people down if neccesary. Move a bunch of packing crates into the stargate before it activates to prvent it from turning on until you get word from the SGC? Float Kino's around the room with C4 strapped to them and start dive bombing? Whatever don't jsut close the door and hope that Plan A works by itself.

Telford for his part was obviously trying to lead a good portion of the LA forces into a trap of some sort. I half expected him to depressurize a section himself by turning off a forcefield. Then I did the math and realized he was trying to gain as many hostrages for Young as Keeva had.

Some of the blast actually DID tanslate through the stargate, one of the LA's was vaporized by the steam cloud that came out the sides. That can't be good for Destiny, i definitely think there is a third party getting involved on Destiny, either its the guy who dissappeared or its whatever dissapeared the guy.

Eli man, come on you know what a turbo lift is, you have to. Way to wait in your room for no reason until it was almost too late. chloe getting shot is as much your fault as it is hers (because obviously her role so far has been to have Shit happen To her.

if the stones were destroyed as has been suggested Young would remain in command as Telford could not be elevated without orders, especially as the SGC believed him to be a traitor at the time the stones were destroyed. I think he will stay double agent with the Lucians a bit longer however..

[A-Wing_Slash]

And I was kind of surprised by Carter leaving two pilots behind. It is a logical action to take, but since SG-1 often focused on that decision being wrong (because by waiting a few seconds the team could be saved) I guess I've been indoctrinated to dislike it.

I felt the same way when I saw it, but as I kept watching it made sense, as it allowed O'Neil to ream Young's ass out for not being able to sacrifice a few people for the greater good by venting the Lucians out.

As to Young's decisions, I think yeah he could have handled things better, but I don't think his actions have been as bad as everyone's making out. He was ready to vent the gateroom when they first came in, but was just too slow to give the order because he (understandably) didn't know that the Lucians could waltz through the ancient, locked out doors with the speed they did. After the prisoners got taken, I have no problem understanding why he'd hesitate before killing twelve members of his already very small command, especially when one is pregnant with his child. By the cold military calculus it may be better to vent the atmosphere, but especially given the show's focus on realistic flawed characters, I'm fine with it. I just hope they wrap it up in a sane way.

[NecronLord]

Is it me, or would this have been much neater if Kiva's men had trooped out of the stargate with a Naquadah-ark and armed it, therefore preventing any possibility of 'kill them all with vacuum' without the ship also being blasted to hell. Drama's all well and good, but Lucian nuke-equivalents would be one of the first things I'd pack if I were her. Look at the original SG movie!

[NecronLord]

And I was kind of surprised by Carter leaving two pilots behind. It is a logical action to take, but since SG-1 often focused on that decision being wrong (because by waiting a few seconds the team could be saved) I guess I've been indoctrinated to dislike it.

I felt the same way when I saw it, but as I kept watching it made sense, as it allowed O'Neil to ream Young's ass out for not being able to sacrifice a few people for the greater good by venting the Lucians out.

The thing is, that's a bit forced, as we know you can beam people out of a 302 (they did it on Atlantis) and O'Neill has gone on a 'we don't leave people behind' rant many times, albeit when he was younger and probably more idealistic.

[PREDATOR490]

3

Really dont like the contrivances in this episode

1) Suddenly the Lucian Alliance use 'Earth' technology rather than use technology native to what they are supposed to have. Goa'uld may guard their technology but if the Lucian Alliance can capture motherships, fighters and bombers I find it stupid they cant acquire ground based weapons.

2) I realise they have no intention of bringing RDA or replacing Young so what was the point in giving him that lecture ?
It should be obvious by now Young lacks the ability to command Destiny but how exactly do they intend to 'replace' him ?

The only way I see replacement happening is if they had someone permanantly body swap with Young to command the mission... which if they were capable and willing to do they should have done already. Thus its a completely stupid scene that highlights the fact the SGC has the means to have skilled personnel on Destiny but they choose not to even when the current personnel arent able to do the job.

3) If O'Neil is for 'acceptable losses' he should be chewing Carter's ass out for not bombing the site from orbit when they couldnt beam through.

4) Telford dying suddenly fixes brainwashing... It would have been so much simpler if they had went with the SG-1 solution of a Zat gun shock.
Of course, we cant dare mention that solution because of the implications it would have on 1).

5) The defence of Destiny was hilariously sad even without Young being a pansy. Use of C4, Grenades or laying traps would have been a wise move but of course the show cant do that because we have to setup the hostage situation AND not deal with the fallout from massive holes in the Gateroom.


Interestingly, I'm surprised they havent got an Iris or even attempted to create an obstruction at the Gate. If you put a crate in the mouth that's smaller than the splash will people not smack into it / trip over ?
While they are fumbling around, stand at either side of the gate and shoot them in the back as they come out.

However,
Eli and Chloe get some bonding time... yay !

I dont mind them so much even when they are being irritating as long as it accomplishes something. Watching them wondering around the ship aimlessly does not accomplish anything and only serves to be a frustration when an invasion is ongoing.

[Alyeska]

3) If O'Neil is for 'acceptable losses' he should be chewing Carter's ass out for not bombing the site from orbit when they couldnt beam through.

They wanted a base to resupply Destiny. Hard to do that when its blown up.

4) Telford dying suddenly fixes brainwashing... It would have been so much simpler if they had went with the SG-1 solution of a Zat gun shock.
Of course, we cant dare mention that solution because of the implications it would have on 1).

One Zat isn't enough, and two Zats not only kill, but often destroy parts of the brain. And there is the fact that they don't have any Zats. The only known solution to the brain washing is near death experience. That Zat would outright kill.