Doctor Who S5e12 "The Pandorica Opens" [Spoilers]

[Eternal_Freedom]

Rory is there because they found Amy's notebook, with pictures. The cracks only erase the memories, not the person's history. After all, none of those cleric blokes came back from the dead did they

[Gramzamber]

Rory is there because they found Amy's notebook, with pictures. The cracks only erase the memories, not the person's history. After all, none of those cleric blokes came back from the dead did they

Which still doesn't explain Rory's continuity of conciousness; notebooks can't replicate personal memories and even if they somehow could with the help of Dalek supertechnology or something, anything in Amy's house would contain info from before Rory joined the Doctor.
Also the fact that the Clerics didn't revive is just more inconsistency. The Doctor repeatedly says that the cracks make it so you were never born and that's why it affects memory. Logically that would erase all evidence of that person and their actions.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I know it's not logical or consistent. This is why I hate contemplating time travel and its associated problems, like removing people from history. It just gives me a headache

[Crazedwraith]

Now, I've seen I can concur with all the previous one-liners: Holy shit, this is going to need one hell of a reset button.

Also next week; Earth has what seven minutes to live? Presumably the Alliance is going to notice the supernova and agree to pop the box open. Though you'd think they'd have designed that box to never be opened once shut since you know, they think the very existence of the universe depends on it.

As for the episode itself; pretty good stuff. The reappearance of every guest star ever, was a bit of a cheap gimmick. Though not necessarily the case, I thought the reference to the Slitheen made them sound more of a race than a family which is a bit of continuity flub.

I though all Auton Rory's scenes were very good. Though if The Doctor had screwdrivered him on his reapperence wouldn't he have noticed it was an Auton? His little talk about miracles was very good though, it makes sense that he'd want to believe it really was Rory.

A random note, I notice Matt Smith had eyebrows in this episode; and this always been the case and I've not noticed them? I could have sworn he didn't have them before, I thought it made him look very creepy at times.

[NecronLord]

Continuity of Conciousness could be (sort of) achieved if the alliance have been tracking the Doctor's recent adventures with a Time/Space visualiser, in which case they'd have seen him get gobbled up in the cave.

Stupid explanation but the only one that springs to mind. Doesn't explain why photos of him still exist.

[Atlan]

My guess for Amy: She's the Doctor's Daughter, having positioned herself in this position to prevent the end of the Universe, and next episode she is the one to regenerate and save the day!

[TC Pilot]

Well, I kinda called it with what's in the box.

Also next week; Earth has what seven minutes to live? Presumably the Alliance is going to notice the supernova and agree to pop the box open.

Presumably it hasn't happened at Sol yet, since, you know, it takes a lot longer than seven minutes for the visual of a supernova to reach Earth. Or *shock* Doctor Who visuals are a bit wonky?

As for the episode itself; pretty good stuff. The reappearance of every guest star ever, was a bit of a cheap gimmick. Though not necessarily the case, I thought the reference to the Slitheen made them sound more of a race than a family which is a bit of continuity flub.

It's either that or Raxacoricofallapatorian. And who the hell in their right mind wouldn't?

"Look at me! I'm a target!" Loved that line. That "You will be assimilated" was odd, though. Why not "upgraded"?

I'm betting that either the allied evils let the Doctor out or all the minor characters from this season fly in and save him. As for that "silence will fall" line, I don't think it sounded like Davros at all. Let's just hope that it isn't, or that'll just be too stupid for words. A deus ex machina is all but guaranteed. Because I don't know what else the writers can use for a plot involving stopping the destruction of the multiverse.

Out of curiosity, were either of those alien species River was bargaining with (the blue guy and the chopped-off hand-guy) known races? Or were they new?

[J Ryan]

I think we may be missing the most important line from the episode

"Have you noticed your life doesn't make any sense"

There have been various hints about her throughout the season. Also wasn't there a picture of rory's work pass from the 70s?

[Bedlam]

I think we may be missing the most important line from the episode

"Have you noticed your life doesn't make any sense"

There have been various hints about her throughout the season. Also wasn't there a picture of rory's work pass from the 70s?

I noticed that as well. Is Amy actually part of a trap for the doctor? Was her whole life fabricated in order to get the Doctor to take her on as a companion? Has this whole series just been an attempt by the alliance to get him into the box?

[Gramzamber]

If Amy were an alliance plant from the start, they wouldn't have needed to barge into her house and collect info at a later date.
That's not to say that she isn't *somebody's* plant. An external factor or maybe the Daleks by themselves. Hell maybe she's a robot like Bracewell

[Starglider]

Decent build-up. Somewhat slow start, but I don't think devoting more time to the Stonehenge would have improved it, that would have just slowed down the pacing. Unfortunately though recent Dr Who has been very good at two-partner build-ups and rather weak on the conclusions. Here's hoping this is an exception.

As for 'good guys' not being in the alliance, exactly which 'good guys' would you include? The recent series have been pretty slim on non-hostile aliens. In any case any enlightened species would likely refuse to ally with a bunch of omnicidal maniacs, and/or refuse to believe that the Doctor was responsible for the problem.

Which still doesn't explain Rory's continuity of conciousness; notebooks can't replicate personal memories and even if they somehow could with the help of Dalek supertechnology or something, anything in Amy's house would contain info from before Rory joined the Doctor.

He doesn't actually have to have 'continuity of consciousness'. The requirements for making a Nestene construct think that it's Rory and act like he remembers what happened are rather looser. Info about the Doctor could easily be programmed in from the extensive archives everyone seems to have. I admit that remembering the details of his travels with the Doctor, right up to the cave is a minor plot hole. However if the Nestene have enough psychic bullshit technology to pull memories out of an 'imprint' at Amy's house, surely they can do a live scan on the actual Amy right after the Tardis landed and program their replica based on that.

Though out-of-universe the most likely answer is 'it is really Rory, and it's a miracle that happened because the writers say so'. I like the 'Amy is also a construct' explanation but I don't think the writers would go for it, plus she'd have to be implausibly convincing to fool the doctor for that long.

Also the fact that the Clerics didn't revive is just more inconsistency.

I just assumed the crack got so big it sucked in even the dead bodies of the ones left in the catacombs. It seems that if you've been sucked into a crack in any timeline, even the later erasure of the thing that put you in that situation won't restore you.

[D.Turtle]

Just a question for those people who think that the crack removes everything that a person has done and not only all memories of that person:

Is there any scene where that happens (something gets undone)?

I can't think of any. From all evidence, it only deletes the memories of a person (and only for people from that direct timeline, as explained at some other point by the Doctor).

Oh, and where is the POLL? I want to give this one a 5!

[Ryushikaze]

The cracks don't 'unhappen' events performed by the 'erased' person. Records of them still exist, but the crack act like the biggest perception filter in existence.

If the cracks deleted the actions as well as the entity, then the civilization that the Angels were responsible for wiping out wouldn't have been wiped out.

I think this is Rory, Nestene-ized near death by the Daleks as part of the alliance's scheme. Unlike all the other automatons, he insisted he was himself, and not a robot like the others.

Also, I can't be the only one to get that Hope is still in the box.

[mr friendly guy]

Question is, would the TARDIS had gone off and blown up even without River in there if it's being controlled remotely?


Second question is, who the hell can control the TARDIS by remote control?

The Time Lords.

The Keeper of Traken could also take control of it.

Sutekh managed to disrupt its flight, but not wrest control of it, but then he was imprisoned when he attempted it.

[DarkSilver]

The cracks don't 'unhappen' events performed by the 'erased' person. Records of them still exist, but the crack act like the biggest perception filter in existence.

If the cracks deleted the actions as well as the entity, then the civilization that the Angels were responsible for wiping out wouldn't have been wiped out.

I think this is Rory, Nestene-ized near death by the Daleks as part of the alliance's scheme. Unlike all the other automatons, he insisted he was himself, and not a robot like the others.

Also, I can't be the only one to get that Hope is still in the box.

No, your not the only one to get it....

But damn, if it didn't end on a note which screams for the BRR Button to be pressed.

Hopefully Moffat and pull off his usual 2 parter wonder and make the season finale next week worth it.

[Asdeed]

Has anyone else noticed quite a bit of talk about fairy tales? And what did the Doctor say when Amy introduced herself as Amelia Pond? 'Amelia Pond, that's brilliant, like in a fair tale.'

I don't even have a theory there, just had to note the possible coincidence.

[PREDATOR490]

Didnt like it.

The concept is interesting but putting it in practice is stupid.

Lets have loads of enemies appear out of nowhere from every corner of Doctor Who from across TIME and SPACE via. these stupid crack things. So not only are they wiping memories they have the ability to bridge the gap like we saw at the beginning. Thus, we have Daleks from the future apparantly standing side by side with Silurians... from where ?

Incidentally, I find it hilarious they left out the master from this ensemble although I have a sinking feeling that might be something coming. It seems they went out of their way to drag all of the enemies against the Doctor with the exception of any Timelords. Slamming that many cameos into a single episode is nice but really stupid because there is no way your going to do them all justice in screentime. There comes a point when shoving shit on screen no longer becomes cool or awesome and this episode passed it.

I have no understanding how the Cybermen are involved. They were supposed to be sucked into the void for fuck sake and they are from another universe. Then we have the Cyberman literally SAY whatever is going to happen will destroy EVERY universe. The Daleks then say they have all allied to save THE universe... seems to me the script cant make up what the stakes are.

Although, if we have Daleks from the future, Cybermen from the... past... ?
Where are the Time War Daleks in this alliance ?
Where is Rose + Human Tennant from the Cybermen universe ?
Yet again, where are the Timelords in this insanity ?

On the one hand, I suppose this would make for one hell of a reset button if they decide to destroy EVERYTHING then have the Doctor emerge into a completely new universe he knows nothing about. On the other, yeah I dont see that happening and the only reset button getting pushed will be back to status quo.

I'll give the episode credit, it has managed to build up suspense decently and better then Stolen Earth. However, the conclusion to SE was JE thus lies the suspense in how badly the next part of this is going to fall.

FUN FACTS:

We learned River Song was infact taught by the Doctor to fly the TARDIS making the previous situation stupid. The Doctor had to ask her how she landed the TARDIS smoothly without the noise when I presume he was the one that taught her how to do it.

River Song could apparantly break out of her prison at any time she wanted and tried to contact the Doctor before but he refused to answer...
I find it hilarious the Doctor claims to be a champion of Earth giving out contact details to his companions but apparantly River Song is the only one he ignores. Mmmm... if only there was another Companion that had a phone capable of contacting the Doctor...


Next Week:
Doctor gets out
TARDIS survives
River Song lives
Amy Lives
Doctor's enemies all go their seperate ways for future appearances

.... possible that a Timelord(s) may appear and even be the ones controling the TARDIS as a means of doing... something.

[Questor]

River Song lives

This is the one guarantee, even more likely than the Doctor living, as we see her die in a previous episode.

[Gramzamber]

We learned River Song was infact taught by the Doctor to fly the TARDIS making the previous situation stupid. The Doctor had to ask her how she landed the TARDIS smoothly without the noise when I presume he was the one that taught her how to do it.

I suppose it could be a time loop. River teaches the Doctor, then the Doctor teaches River.

[Zac Naloen]

We learned River Song was infact taught by the Doctor to fly the TARDIS making the previous situation stupid. The Doctor had to ask her how she landed the TARDIS smoothly without the noise when I presume he was the one that taught her how to do it.

I suppose it could be a time loop. River teaches the Doctor, then the Doctor teaches River.

That's not what the doctor meant in that scene at all.

When he said "How did you do that"

He meant it in a "how did you know how to do that " way

The doctor himself said 5 seconds later that he doesn't use it because it makes it boring.

[generator_g1]

River Song lives

This is the one guarantee, even more likely than the Doctor living, as we see her die in a previous episode.

Also, the River Song from Flesh and Stone already mentions having been there for the Pandorica opening, which means this episode's River is actually from an earlier timeframe before the Byzantium crash ever happened.

[NecronLord]

The White Guardian was also able to control the TARDIS.

"Look at me! I'm a target!" Loved that line. That "You will be assimilated" was odd, though. Why not "upgraded"?

I assume assimilated is cyber-speak for 'you will be assimilated into an existing cyberman.' More likely they just fancied a borg reference. Rather like the bit in the last episode where the Doctor pretty much quotes the Star Trek EMH. "Please state the nature of the emergency" or something.

A deus ex machina is all but guaranteed. Because I don't know what else the writers can use for a plot involving stopping the destruction of the multiverse.

Most likely, the Doctor will have to ride forward in time with the Daleks or something and arrive in time to prevent the explosion and then have to find out what's responsible. That doesn't really require a Deus Ex Machina (and I could watch half an hour of the Doctor and the Daleks united, easily) though I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Out of curiosity, were either of those alien species River was bargaining with (the blue guy and the chopped-off hand-guy) known races? Or were they new?

New, I think.

[Admiral Valdemar]

With the TARDIS destroyed, it'd be a lot harder to do a reset given the one thing The Doctor truly relies on is, as far as we're aware, the reason for the universe going FUBAR. So whatever solution is to be found, it can't be related to the TARDIS and Song, at least from the perception of Eleven anyway. The only people able to really act on the situation now are the Alliance, assuming the third party that took control of the TARDIS doesn't get involved again in some roundabout way. Whoever that was, they basically achieved what no other antagonist could, and did so without The Doctor even realising, bar the hints from the cracks in relation to Amy, which after all, the TARDIS took him to after his regeneration from Ten.

I'm really more curious about who has managed to pull this off, as we now see it's not simply an accident or some fault from a previous incident. Of course things will be reset (no, they just cancelled the Beeb's biggest money spinner family show...), but how they go about it and what caused the big bad this season is far more pertinent.

Anyone else think Spın̈al Tap? Eleven needs to dial it up to eleven.

[Drooling Iguana]

I think that the Doctor's going to stay in that box until the final minutes of the next episode. We've already had this season's Doctor-sans-companion episode ("The Lodger") but we haven't yet gotten a companion-sans-Doctor one, and they need to get those double-booked episodes out in order to make room in the shooting schedule for the Christmas special.

Unless it's the Christmas special itself that's going to be Doctor-less, which would be an interesting way of doing things but I doubt that the producers would go for something so unconventional as the specials tend to be aimed towards people who don't watch the show regularly.

As for why Rory remembers being killed, my first thought was that some of the Silurans in the Alliance were the ones who shot him and that the Nestene consciousness could simply have asked them about his final moments when they created the copy. However, that doesn't work as, to my knowledge, the Silurans have never time-travelled and thus would have forgotten about him when he was eaten by Amy's Crack. Still, it seems a bit silly to complain about plot holes in a story that's only halfway done. I'm going to wait and see what they do next week before I break out the torches and pitchforks.

Moffat's episodes this season have been a bit of a step down from his output from back when he only had one story per season to worry about, but he still seems to be better at assembling a coherent plot than RTD ever was.

[dragon]

Got to say I did chuckle at the time vortex manipulator. Yes jack you may be immortal but were still having your arm.

There are more than 1 time agent you know so no guarantee that it's Jack. Very nice episode but sets the stage for a big let down in the follow up, depending on how they hit the reset button.

We know that there were and are beings that existed before time began and some might still be around. One of which got sucked into a black hole. If these beings existed before time then the end of time might not bother them to much.

Still the episode would have been better with a nice big space battle.