Half-Life: Combine vs Zen

[Ryu]

Agreed there Ryu, althought I've always fancied the Overwatch Elite as something akin to Space Marines in terms of their skill. And if anyone has beaten Half-Life 2 on the Hardest difficulty, I wouldn't be surprised if striders (Which take somewhere around seven hits with an RPG to kill) were the bane of the Garg's, thanks to that nifty charging-dick-cannon thing. Also, I deduced from Dog's fight with the Strider that they are quite nimble, and as I've seen from their tunnel runs in City 17, these guys can move it.

True, although we'd probably get better realism using "normal" for our scores, or better yet, using easy for health scores and hard for damage scores.

Although, my only question here is if Xen has anything mobile that can seriously hurt a synth. If yes, they would likely win. If no, they wouldn't stand much of a chance.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Uh, it's a key point of HL2 that the Combine don't have the portal technology that the Nihilanth and Vortigaunts had, or even that Kleiner had. I rather suspect that the Combine was stuck with "brute force" larger portals that it could yank open over major population centres and push in the citadels. At no point do you get a Combine equivalent of Xen forces teleporting in like you do in Black Mesa, just the mysterious growth of the citadel and that portal Breen opens up. All the rest (headcrab deployment, for instance) is done with missile delivery system.

I suspect this means that while the Combine may have invaded Xen, which would be the border-world between us and them (and wherever Race X came from in Opposing Force), it makes me wonder if they just bypassed it entirely once the dimensional barriers became sufficiently "corroded" or otherwise weakened, hence why the Nihilanth hiding in the border-world was a good move on his part.

Brain fart. Forget the portal thing then. I recalled the Combine using portals to invade and figured it their tech, rather than remnants of the resonance cascade allowing them through via Xen, with only the Combine main forces having portal technology, rather than Overwatch Metrocops calling it in.

[Gil Hamilton]

That charging bit in the chapter "Follow Freeman!" is pretty scary, when a Strider just appears in a tunnel and crosses it, taking it apart, quicker than you've ever seen the fuckers move before. They're also not exactly the biggest targets, even if tall, and on higher difficulty, they are insanely more difficult to take down, especially in packs. I imagine the finale to Episode II is hell on a higher setting.

Yeah, playing on the high setting was a challenge there. Fortunately, the best anti Hunter weapon is the fender of your car. Try to hit one or two of the escorts, skid to a halt, throw your bomb and run. I LOVE the finale because of that. Particularly if you are trying for the achievement, which is absolutely murderous.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Oh shit, yes. I forgot about Hunters. It's like AT-ATs and AT-STs working together to give one mother of a combined arms group. Every time I lined up to take a Strider out, one of those fuckers appears and ruins your day. It was bad enough with just Striders and the odd Combine Elite. They're like the Gekkos from MGS4.

[Commander Xillian]

Hunter Hunter-killer teams, FTW.

@Ryu: Even then, we're looking at five rockets. Five RPG's. That's four more than most light tanks can take, and a strider is a very fast, very powerful, tank.

[Ryu]

Hunter Hunter-killer teams, FTW.

@Ryu: Even then, we're looking at five rockets. Five RPG's. That's four more than most light tanks can take, and a strider is a very fast, very powerful, tank.

I'm not debating that, but keep in mind that the RPG from half-life (which I'm fairly sure was slightly more powerrful) took more than that to kill an M1 Abrams. I haven't tested it, but I remember shooting it half a dozen times with an RPG before it finally gave way on my first playthrough. (Considering that was my only playthrough on easy, and that was 1999, I'm still not sure if that's accurate.) The M2 Bradleys, I think, took 4, and the Apache took a second one.

Using that as a standard of measure, the strider should be somewhere around the bradley's region of resilience, maybe a little higher.

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's not like these are RPG-7s anyway. They're laser guided as well as dumbfire, and in reality even a dozen RPGs hitting an Abrams would do very little but superficial damage to sensors. The Strider and Gunship synths are basically modified creatures with a lot of cybernetics to allow them to use their form effortlessly and make use of species they'd otherwise exterminate. I actually doubt the Striders are much above Hunters in terms of hardware, being more apt for policing, while still able to quash any resistance from the likes of Black Mesa East, but not full blown armies.

[Ryu]

...in reality even a dozen RPGs hitting an Abrams would do very little but superficial damage to sensors.

That's not true. In reality, a single rpg-7 to the rear aspect or two to the frontal aspect (If they hit the same place) of the abrams will result in a catastrophic kill. You can also score a crew-kill if you hit the top, and an rpg can also easily score a mobility kill with a single strike to the track as well and leave the tank an easy kill for anybody with an rpg, or even a bolt-action rifle and a stick of dynamite.

[Gil Hamilton]

Oh shit, yes. I forgot about Hunters. It's like AT-ATs and AT-STs working together to give one mother of a combined arms group. Every time I lined up to take a Strider out, one of those fuckers appears and ruins your day. It was bad enough with just Striders and the odd Combine Elite. They're like the Gekkos from MGS4.

The only saving grace in that is that the Striders will tend to ignore you unless you piss them off in that battle. The pissy thing was when I first attempted it, I was used to Hunters coming in pairs. Generally, that is true. Unfortunately, some of the Striders have THREE Hunters.

That was annoying, since the Hunters actually WERE there in a combined arms role. Run over the first, pop the second, and then you have to make sure the third isn't around to shoot your sticky bomb. The only saving grace in that battle is that the Overwatch didn't send Gunships too. Having to deal with those while tying to stick a Magnasson on the ass of a martian tripod would have been retarded.

[Ryu]

Oh shit, yes. I forgot about Hunters. It's like AT-ATs and AT-STs working together to give one mother of a combined arms group. Every time I lined up to take a Strider out, one of those fuckers appears and ruins your day. It was bad enough with just Striders and the odd Combine Elite. They're like the Gekkos from MGS4.

The only saving grace in that is that the Striders will tend to ignore you unless you piss them off in that battle. The pissy thing was when I first attempted it, I was used to Hunters coming in pairs. Generally, that is true. Unfortunately, some of the Striders have THREE Hunters.

That was annoying, since the Hunters actually WERE there in a combined arms role. Run over the first, pop the second, and then you have to make sure the third isn't around to shoot your sticky bomb. The only saving grace in that battle is that the Overwatch didn't send Gunships too. Having to deal with those while tying to stick a Magnasson on the ass of a martian tripod would have been retarded.

I've never played that episode, but it sounds like the lack of gunships was a serious military blunder on the part of the combine. Tell me they at least backed this up with infantry.

[The Vortex Empire]

I've never played that episode, but it sounds like the lack of gunships was a serious military blunder on the part of the combine. Tell me they at least backed this up with infantry.

They did not. Had they done so, it would have been a bit trickier. Had they brought gunships, or those missile jeeps, it would have been hell.

[Ryu]

I've never played that episode, but it sounds like the lack of gunships was a serious military blunder on the part of the combine. Tell me they at least backed this up with infantry.

They did not. Had they done so, it would have been a bit trickier. Had they brought gunships, or those missile jeeps, it would have been hell.

Hence why I'm saying they should of brought them.

[Darksider]

Hence why I'm saying they should of brought them.

It should be noted that said assault took place shortly after the destruction of the Citadel, (couldn't have been more than day) and what was left of the Overwatch forces were in complete disarray and spread out trying to recover the Overseers' escape pods. The attack may have just been a hasty attempt to destroy a resistance base. Has it ever been confirmed that the Combine knew what the Resistance was doing at white forest? And as of Episode 3 we may learn it was unsuccessful.

[Ryu]

Hence why I'm saying they should of brought them.

It should be noted that said assault took place shortly after the destruction of the Citadel, (couldn't have been more than day) and what was left of the Overwatch forces were in complete disarray and spread out trying to recover the Overseers' escape pods. The attack may have just been a hasty attempt to destroy a resistance base. Has it ever been confirmed that the Combine knew what the Resistance was doing at white forest? And as of Episode 3 we may learn it was unsuccessful.

Irrelevent. They could at least of sent infantry, in fact infantry would of been the easiest thing to send. Artillery helps as well, and the combine APC has a missile launcher. Further, if they used the dropships as well, they have a pulse gun on them that would allow them to act as light, makeshift air support in lieu of a proper gunship.

[Admiral Valdemar]

That's not true. In reality, a single rpg-7 to the rear aspect or two to the frontal aspect (If they hit the same place) of the abrams will result in a catastrophic kill. You can also score a crew-kill if you hit the top, and an rpg can also easily score a mobility kill with a single strike to the track as well and leave the tank an easy kill for anybody with an rpg, or even a bolt-action rifle and a stick of dynamite.

Which doesn't contradict what I said. And the scenarios I'm talking about have happened plenty in Iraq. The kind of instances you're talking about are so rare or suicidal as to be a non-issue. I also sincerely doubt two RPG-7s would mission kill an Abrams or Challenger (indeed, in the latter case, several dozen hits to the glacis over a single day on one tank did nothing and even a Warrior took several RPG-7s and was fully capable after the Basra charge), even if you did magically hit the exact same mark twice.

Technically, a single frag grenade can take out an Abrams. If you pop it in the open turret.

I've never played that episode, but it sounds like the lack of gunships was a serious military blunder on the part of the combine. Tell me they at least backed this up with infantry.

They did. The White Forest base was attacked by a sizeable force of Combine Elites shortly prior to the Strider/Hunter packs appearing. Infantry wouldn't have added much more to the armoured attack force, given Hunters are vastly more capable. And again, the Citadel being taken out was a major blow given it housed the necessary machinery and resources for the Overwatch (remember all those Gunships, Hunter-Choppers and Dropships stationed there as it was a bastion no resistance force could hit. They could have lost a lot more of their air support than their ground support such as Striders, Crabs etc.).

[Gil Hamilton]

I've never played that episode, but it sounds like the lack of gunships was a serious military blunder on the part of the combine. Tell me they at least backed this up with infantry.

They did have infantry. LOTS of infantry. Before the final battle where they start dropping Striders on the Rocket Base, you've got to clean out the Rocket Base because the Overwatch dropped a whole mess of infantry on the base to capture it. They cut their way in with Elites backed by a few Hunters. Once you deal with that problem and save the rocket, you are alerted that they've spotted a whole mess of Striders being airlifted toward the base and that they don't really have that great a way to stop them from landing, so you've got to drive around and sticky bomb them.

I think that there was gunships would have been entirely a gameplay issue. The game you were playing there is that you had explosives that you'd throw at Striders and then shoot to detonate, blowin' up the Strider good. You had to do this before any Strider reached the missile base and launched. The Striders were accompanied by Hunters, which shoot your bombs and also you to protect the Striders while the Striders march through Black Mesa's defenses systematically on their way to the Rocket Base. The problem is that Gunships can be a pain in the ass to deal with on a hard difficulty level when you aren't also dealing with Striders, Hunters, and are pressed for time. In fact, on the hardest mode you've got to hit a gunship seven times, which means you have to reload a minimum of twice in order to bring a single one down. While there are ammo crates for RPGs in the final level, dealing with a gunship would mean driving out to where the Strider is dealing with the Hunters while scoring multiple hits on the gunship, driving back to an ammo crate, driving back, repeat, drive back, repeat. THEN deal with the Strider (dealing with the Strider first would involve the Gunship and Hunters shooting your ass off). It's POSSIBLE, but murderous.

Yes, out of the context of a game, it makes sense to send gunships, but it would make the final level really fucking evil to play.

[Admiral Valdemar]

You do at least get a team to support you, but they tend to get mowed down by the Striders and Hunters pretty early on, making it mostly a one man army mission. That's the context you have to keep here, because Freeman is still only one man, however adept. You can't just throw the whole Overwatch force left around City 17 at the player without making it essentially impossible. See it as the G-Man levelling the playing field somewhat, despite otherwise having restrictions on his Clash of the Titans style meddling.

I also remembered where I got the Combine teleport idea. It was Moss' research at Nova Prospekt which was to copy the human/Xen style technology for Combine use, at least until The One Free Man ruined their shit.

[Commander Xillian]

When DOESN'T the One Free Man ruin their shit?

[Ryu]

When DOESN'T the One Free Man ruin their shit?

Half-Life, when his actions opened us up to their invasion? The beginning of Half-Life 2, when he was too busy running from them to pose a threat, and led the Combine right to the doors of Black Mesa East?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Yeah, for all the good Freeman has brought, he did kinda start the whole mess by causing that rift allowing the Combine passage, along with half of Xen's flora and fauna. And it's not like he was around for the near two decades post 7 Hour War where Earth was conquered and raped.

And if we ever get to see an Episode III before I die, we've still yet to find the Administrators and stop them calling home, else it's all for nothing.

[The Vortex Empire]

Well, Freeman didn't actually cause that rift. Yes, he pulled the switch, but it was the G-Man who provided the crystal that caused the surge.

[Ryu]

Well, Freeman didn't actually cause that rift. Yes, he pulled the switch, but it was the G-Man who provided the crystal that caused the surge.

And the scientists up above created and readied the machine. They're all at least partially responsible.

[Admiral Valdemar]

True, I suppose the real culprit is the US gov't enacting such secret and experimental physics experiments. That said, an element of risk is part and parcel with science. Too bad it had to be the gaining of teleportation and knowledge that we're not alone in the universe at the expense of, oh, Earth.

The sad thing is, even if the Combine are routed off planet, there's still the population of humans recovering thanks to the suppression field; the contaminants in the water table; the loss of water planet-wide to service Combine assets abroad; mass extinction and invasion by Xen species; practically zero real infrastructure left that isn't downright decrepit.

A cynical person would say we already lost. Still, relating to the OP, I heard the Combine already really had control of Xen anyway, or at least where the Nihilanth originally came from. So it seems they have little to really employ against a pan-dimensional empire.

[Ryu]

True, I suppose the real culprit is the US gov't enacting such secret and experimental physics experiments. That said, an element of risk is part and parcel with science. Too bad it had to be the gaining of teleportation and knowledge that we're not alone in the universe at the expense of, oh, Earth.

The sad thing is, even if the Combine are routed off planet, there's still the population of humans recovering thanks to the suppression field; the contaminants in the water table; the loss of water planet-wide to service Combine assets abroad; mass extinction and invasion by Xen species; practically zero real infrastructure left that isn't downright decrepit.

A cynical person would say we already lost. Still, relating to the OP, I heard the Combine already really had control of Xen anyway, or at least where the Nihilanth originally came from. So it seems they have little to really employ against a pan-dimensional empire.

Or it could just be a massive quantitive advantage, which is irrelevent in this scenario.