TF3 Thread (Spoilers allowed, no tags)

[Kojiro]

Presumably pre-Decepticon Cybertron and/or the Autobots are not a dictatorship, and merely being the Leader does not give you the authority to order a ceasefire (surrender) to evil transforming robot space nazis.

I think while that's true of Autobots perhaps, it's certainly not true of Decepticons. Try telling Megatron he's not THE Decepticon in charge. If the 'cons backed off I'm sure the Autobots would honour a cease fire their leader was endorsing.

Even so, it doesn't explain why SP was shot down in the first place.

[NecronLord]

Presumably pre-Decepticon Cybertron and/or the Autobots are not a dictatorship, and merely being the Leader does not give you the authority to order a ceasefire (surrender) to evil transforming robot space nazis.

I think while that's true of Autobots perhaps, it's certainly not true of Decepticons. Try telling Megatron he's not THE Decepticon in charge. If the 'cons backed off I'm sure the Autobots would honour a cease fire their leader was endorsing.

Would Megatron honour a ceasefire that left autobots alive and not capitulated?

Even so, it doesn't explain why SP was shot down in the first place.

I doubt every foot-soldier Decepticon was told about the enemy leader being a defector.

[aieeegrunt]

Jesus what a horrible incoherent mess. I bought a ticket to a movie titled Transformers thinking it would be about Transformers, not the Trials and Tribulations of Young Sam Witwicky. We spent so much time on Sam and his finding a job troubles and his relationship troubles and all that stupid human melodrama crap, meanwhile the robot stuff like what Megatron is doing, why he's covered in cyberlice, what the other Decepticons have been doing, who is this Shockwave guy, why does he have a giant mecha-Lamprey, why the two of them have been hiding under Chernobyl, and a million other details are either briefly alluded to in passing or not explained at all.

Hey look, we got Leonard Nemoy as a voice actor! Lets see how many fucking Spock shout outs we can cram into his dialogue!

So the actual meat of the story is rushed and hurried to the point where it just all blurs together in a mess of metal hued polygons.

It's totally backwards. You have failed me again, Bayscream.

[Chardok]

disagree. I thought the movie was great. the scope was huge, its was fun to watch, there was always something going on, and it was super baysplosion-y. What sealed the deal for me was my four year old's reaction. while he thought the movie was SO AWESOME and WOW! The part where the autobots were "leaving", he cried. literally. Crocodile tears. it was the first time he's ever had that kind of a reaction to a film. I cried because of that. This is easily the best TF movie yet, and the rollercoaster ride of action and overall atmosphere of hopelessness kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time. you don't need to see it in 3D, but if you let this summer go by without seeing this movie on the big screen, you're doing it wrong.

[LadyTevar]

The movie gave me just what I expected: Giant robots fighting, explosions, and a city in flames.

It gave me a bit of the unexpected: a script that made a bit of sense, a Laserbeak that was one of the more compelling villains, and a good reason for the ship on the moon.

4/5

[dragon]

well we gotta disagree then about robaot action.


meanwhile something which is confusing me. the time line

Megatron crashed and froze sometime prior to the 1930's when the Hoover Dam was constructed.

Yet Sentinel was on his way to meet Megatron and crashed in 1961 ?

and some unnamed Decepticons emptied the Ark in 1963-64 ?

and then the Starscream/Barricade/Brawl/Frenzyl start looking for Megatron in the 2000s and free him .

and why were those 200 Decepticon troops buried on the moon ? and when ?.

well there's no telling how many centuries Prime was drifiting through space before he impacted the moon

[Enigma]

You guys aren't the only ones that has a hang-up about Optimus Prime's attitude in the third movie.

Darren Franich from EW summed up Prime as,

So, in short, by the end of Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Optimus Prime has become a bloodthirsty idiot douche rocket with no moral code, who gladly sacrifices millions of lives in order to prove that humans can’t last long without his awesomeness. Who’s ready for a fourquel?"

[Anguirus]

^ A few reviewers have brought up that complaint, which is just devastatingly off the mark.

Optimus never claimed the legal authority to remain on Earth without the consent of its people. When the people said go, he went. However, Sam managed to tip him off at the last second that something was up (anyone who missed this was not paying attention), so he came up with a plan to save the Autobots. This plan, which was painstakingly explained to us when they showed back up, involved ditching in the Atlantic Ocean. Meanwhile, the Decepticons flew in their hundreds of spaceships and skullfucked Chicago while nine Autobots swam, then drove, straight for them.

Then Optimus tosses out a line about how "he knew the Decepticons would never leave you alone" and people conclude that Optimus maliciously let Chicago burn? How was he supposed to fucking prevent it?

Note: Roger Ebert, who HATED this movie but who is not a hack, did not make this claim. Apparently, only morons who hated this movie made this claim.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I've personally nothing against Prime being a bit ruthless. The original cartoon movie pretty much had Prime fighting to kill when he fought Megatron. So seriously, getting butt hurt over the ruthless side of Prime is pointless.

Nevermind how the Japanese portrayed the Autobots too.

[dragon]

You guys aren't the only ones that has a hang-up about Optimus Prime's attitude in the third movie.

Darren Franich from EW summed up Prime as,

So, in short, by the end of Transformers: Dark of the Moon, Optimus Prime has become a bloodthirsty idiot douche rocket with no moral code, who gladly sacrifices millions of lives in order to prove that humans can’t last long without his awesomeness. Who’s ready for a fourquel?"

lets see he has been fighting a long watching his friends and companions dying not to mention his world.
Then the person he follows after up'd and became evil it's only natural he wants and end to things.
Hell I've seen perfectly good people willing to put a bullet in an Iraqi head after watching their friends get killed.
Unending war came make people do questionable things.

[AndroAsc]

Why da fuck is the military portrayed as being dumb fuck idiots this time round?
1) So let's exile the Autobots and pray that the Decepticons will not go back on their word... WTF? Look, even if there is a chance that the Decepticons will honor their word, where's the fucking contigency plan when the Decepticons betray humanity? And for god sake's their fucking ultimatum was... exile the Autobots and let us strip mine your planet. WTF?
2) So Sentinel/Megatron has taken over Chicago and wtf does the military do? Send in a squad of soldiers... hey WTF man? Roll in the fucking tanks, the jets, the copters the heavy gun. We have seen in TF1 and TF2 how the robots are susceptible to concentrated firepower. How many decepticons were there? Two dozen at the most. How big is the fucking army of the USA?
3) Artillery... anyone heard about that? Why don't they just deploy the entire US army and shell the entire Chicago city with everything they've got.
4) NUKES. Dude... this is the time to use nukes. Sure the Decepticons anti-air is pretty good... but you were just deploying ONE fucking drone against them. What do you expect? Why not swarm the city with 100s or 1000s of unmanned drones (as decoy), send out all the fighter jets (US air force has like 2000 fighter jets), and send out all the nuclear bombers. Something will get through the Decepticons sentry drones and the nuke will take care of the bots.
5) Or even a simpler suggestion. How about the underground subway and other below ground transportation to Chicago? The Decepticons are too small to go in, and they could just transport a NUKE and blow up Chicago.

The Decepticons are taking over the world, and this is the fucked up response from the US military... my god I hope if there is a real alien invasion our guys do things better!!!

Plain military stupidity. WTF. Seriously WTF. Who's the fucking retard who wrote the script????

[Moby Halcyon]

You're a goddamned moron. There's sure a hell of a lot more than "two dozen at best" Decepticons in Chicago - their air superiority is such that they're mentioned as swatting down high altitude bombers. But there's clearly holes in the defenses by the end of the battle. SEALs manage to get in, and you see regular army with armored vehicles in the battle hook up with NEST, let alone the Tomahawk Wave.

Nuking Chicago is so goddamned stupid I can't even begin to start on it. There are still civilians in the bloody city, let alone the surrounding area.

Did you watch the goddamn movie? The UN and the American Congress voted the Autobots out, but apparently this falls under the purview of general military stupidity. I mean, there are flaws in the movie, but it's detractors aren't doing their cause any services when they put out morons like you.

[NecronLord]

Nuking Chicago is so goddamned stupid I can't even begin to start on it. There are still civilians in the bloody city, let alone the surrounding area.

There are a hell of a lot of civilians on the rest of the planet who don't want to be enslaved.

The real problem with it is that there were a lot of Decepticons in hiding who could possibly just continue with the plan anyway.

[Moby Halcyon]

That's actually a point I was thinking about - even if Chicago is cleared out, there's tons of regular mook Decepticons across the globe who managed to sneak into Eurasia in a single night (Bay geography at its finest). With hundreds of pillars, that's implying a lot if Decepticons who need to go to ground.

[AndroAsc]

You're a goddamned moron. There's sure a hell of a lot more than "two dozen at best" Decepticons in Chicago - their air superiority is such that they're mentioned as swatting down high altitude bombers. But there's clearly holes in the defenses by the end of the battle. SEALs manage to get in, and you see regular army with armored vehicles in the battle hook up with NEST, let alone the Tomahawk Wave.

Really? I didn't see any on screen evidence of more than a handful of Decepticon robots. I think about a dozen were killed on screen. So where is the hundred of robots that you claim to exist?

Their air superiority that we saw on screen was their flying gunships that shot down a few UAVs... how effective would that against a wave of fighters? The point that tomahawk missiles could get through is proof enough that their air defences are not significantly better than human air defences. And I would hardly call a dozen missiles a "wave". And by that logic if tomahawk missiles could get through it means that a wave of ICBMs will make it through the Decepticons air defences. Hell, come to think about it we won't even need to deploy fighters and bombers...

I don't recall seeing much armored vehicles? How many were deployed?

Nuking Chicago is so goddamned stupid I can't even begin to start on it. There are still civilians in the bloody city, let alone the surrounding area.

Did you watch the goddamn movie? The UN and the American Congress voted the Autobots out, but apparently this falls under the purview of general military stupidity. I mean, there are flaws in the movie, but it's detractors aren't doing their cause any services when they put out morons like you.

Oh so what's your damn solution? Let's sit and wait will the Decepticons power their device and bring even more bots to Earth... if you Nuke the damn city and kill all the civilians, you save the Earth. If you do nothing, the Earth is doomed. It's an obvious choice for anyone with half a brain.

Yes, so what if the political leaders voted the Autobots out. Why wasn't there a contingency plan in place? So if one day the US govt decides to disband all nuclear weapons (in agreement with other major powers), we are simply going to do that and not have a contingency plan in case the other nation plays us out? Seriously... this is not Alice in Wonderland...

[AndroAsc]

That's actually a point I was thinking about - even if Chicago is cleared out, there's tons of regular mook Decepticons across the globe who managed to sneak into Eurasia in a single night (Bay geography at its finest). With hundreds of pillars, that's implying a lot if Decepticons who need to go to ground.

The point is to take out the control rod and Sentinel Prime. One that is done, there will be no more Decepticon reinforcements. Remember they had the rods... but they needed Sentinel Prime to make it work. Earth forces can then take out the straggling bots later. If there are hundred of pillars, it also implies that the Decepticons are very scattered. Easy targets for concentrated human forces.

[AndroAsc]

Several problems I had with the final battle too:
1) I'm also in agreement with most folks that Optimus shouldn't have killed Megatron just like that. It's not consistent with his character. He's not a cold blooded killer. Ditto with Sentinel Prime. It's also too fast. And this complaint goes back to TF2 too. What's with Bay and his final fight scenes, they end TOO QUICKLY and are all anti-climatic. In TF2 the battle with the Fallen lasted about a minute. In TF3 the battle with Megatron ended in one second! Seriously, can't we have long drawn out fights where we clearly see that both opponents are equally matched? TF1 fight scenes were way better...
2) Why the hell was Megatron MIA for most of the final battle and sulking away in one corner? What's with the sudden pussy-ification of Megatron? Plus, he's playing too much of a supporting character role in this movie, even the one-eyed Shockwave had more appearances than him...
3) I didn't like how Sentinel wiped the floor with Optimus ass. Presumably Sentinel, Optimus and Megatron are all of the same "fighting class". In TF1, the Optimus/Megatron fight was a tie (approximately). In TF2, Optimus floored Megatron and the Fallen. I am excusing this sudden change to the reasoning that Optimus has been practicing his Decepticon-hunting skill for years while Megatron has been damaged all this while. And now, we get some old shithead called Sentinel and he floors Optimus in the battle and chops off his arm?! WTF??? Hello... reality check here guys!!!

[Kojiro]

Would Megatron honour a ceasefire that left autobots alive and not capitulated?

He'd honour it long enough to pull off his plan with Sentinal, which is all that matters.

I doubt every foot-soldier Decepticon was told about the enemy leader being a defector.

So do I, but we've seen the Decepticons have the ability to communicate by internal radio- what amounts to to them as virtual telepathy. You don't need to tell the foot soldiers why they shouldn't be in sector 12 on that day, or why they shouldn't be shooting at anything. You can even tell them it's a defector or infiltrator craft- no need to let them in on the big secret. All you have to do is arrange is so one ship can get away- something it damn near did of it's own accord. You'd think, given the gravity of the plan, Megatron might just have taken a personal interest or command of the Decepticons in the area on the day. Or at the least he'd have sent someone like Shockwave or Soundwave he could rely on.

1) I'm also in agreement with most folks that Optimus shouldn't have killed Megatron just like that. It's not consistent with his character. He's not a cold blooded killer.

It's not in character for G1 Optimus but it's consistent with movie Prime. Movie Prime has never hesitated to kill a Decepticon. Look at the start of TF2- Decepticons are quietly minding their own business, disturbing no one and he's helping hunt them down. Now I get they're effectively terrorists, plotting to do some major harm so sure, go get them, but once you've got them, damaged and lying in a mess of parts you don't execute them. Prime had no qualms about such (nor did Ironhide seem to bat an eyelid, but I can see that from Ironhide).

3) I didn't like how Sentinel wiped the floor with Optimus ass. Presumably Sentinel, Optimus and Megatron are all of the same "fighting class". In TF1, the Optimus/Megatron fight was a tie (approximately). In TF2, Optimus floored Megatron and the Fallen. I am excusing this sudden change to the reasoning that Optimus has been practicing his Decepticon-hunting skill for years while Megatron has been damaged all this while. And now, we get some old shithead called Sentinel and he floors Optimus in the battle and chops off his arm?! WTF??? Hello... reality check here guys!!!

Sentinel and Optimus were fairly well matched I thought, just Sentinal happened to win on the day. As for TF1, you need to rewatch that fight. Megatron schools Optimus all over the show and it's only the Raptors that slow Megatron down. As for polishing skills, these guys have been fighting for millennia in this version, millions of years in others. Either way, a few more years of scatterd 'con hunting isn't going to make any difference to skills. The only thing that makes sense is Prime can now beat Megs because a) he cheap shotted him and b) Megs is missing half his head. Though I still find it implausible he could pull Megatron apart like that.

A few other gripes which are personal bugbears:
I hate that Bay put in a red ferrari and STILL didn't make it god damn Sideswipe (even if he'd just upgraded his 'cover'). Laserbeak pissed me off- not the least of which because he possessed no fucking lasers, but he was talking way too much. Not to mention is apparently piss weak. What the fuck is up with transformers piloting flying vehicles? What are the Action Masters making an appearance? And why is it that everytime we see Bumblebee in car mode he's pristine, then scratched to all fuck when he transforms, the pristine again when he goes back? I'm not sure how big Cybertron is but one thing is for sure, putting it next to Earth is going to fuck with our planet and unless it's got an atmospher we're not going to be working a lot there. Why do the 'bots drool and the like? And what's with those little bugs crawling over Megatron? Where the fuck are they coming from? Where those hatchlings? Do transformers actually grow like biological entities? And what the fuck is up with those foot long super grenades? That shit was awesome lethal- hows about you try putting those in a god damn Autobot weapon? Then you wouldn't have to shoot those piss ant .30 cals that give us a cool close up of Shockwave shrugging them off like he's in the rain.

Apologies for the block of text. I actually enjoyed the film as a stand alone but loathed it as a Transformers flick.

[Moby Halcyon]

AndroAsc, I should probably rephrase - I'm not against last ditch bombardment, but I'm satisfied with the route the movie took- the special forces infiltrated and managed to do win the day supporting the Autobots and with the help of the Tomahawks. But starting out the day with bombardment, let alone a wave of ICBMs seems like hilarious overkill that's really not warranted for the situation - I mean, should the NEST team fail and Sentinel's forces secure the pillar, the multiply those Tomahawks by a couple dozen more. But nukes just seems like Avatar-esque dick stroking.

re: Decepticon troops - I'm thinking each of the gunships had a pilot, with larger ships having room for passengers. Moreover, I doubt the Decepticons could have cleared out Chicago to any significant degree with just a dozen or so ground troops while still putting up a loose perimeter.

As for Optimus versus Megatron, while I agree the fight was too fast (same problem with ROTF, no disagreement there), anyone who thinks Optimus will up and make a truce with someone who not only is responsible for the death if half of Chicago, but just ripped out a good portion of his ally's chest while curbstomping him. Look at Optimus' forest fight in ROTF - he goes batshit berserk on Megatron and his crew at the idea of just killing Sam. Now multiply that by a factor of Chicago. There was no way Megatron was going to walk off of that bridge without Optimis having something to say about it

[Bedlam]

I think it was mentioned when the decepticons first ported in from the moon that there were about 200 of them as far the humans knew so maybe 50+ in chicargo and the rest in one or two bot teams around the world deploying the 100s of pillars.

[SylasGaunt]

Their air superiority that we saw on screen was their flying gunships that shot down a few UAVs... how effective would that against a wave of fighters?

Uh.. they do knock out fighters. You see a flight of fighters go in near the edge of Chicago when Sam and Epps enter and get blown out of the sky. Likewise we hear about them shooting down long-range bombers, as well as tearing apart the diversionary attack meant to cover the infiltration of the NEST teams.

The point that tomahawk missiles could get through is proof enough that their air defences are not significantly better than human air defences. And I would hardly call a dozen missiles a "wave". And by that logic if tomahawk missiles could get through it means that a wave of ICBMs will make it through the Decepticons air defences. Hell, come to think about it we won't even need to deploy fighters and bombers...

Tomahawks are significantly smaller targets than fighter planes. Also, by the time the Tomahawk wave got in there the cons were scrambling to make ground attacks on the autobots instead of patrolling the perimeter.

And what's with those little bugs crawling over Megatron? Where the fuck are they coming from? Where those hatchlings?

If you look close on megatron those 'lice' seem to be relatives of the doctor 'con from TF2. Presumably they're working on fixing the great big hole in his head but I imagine having them crawling around in there is at bare minimum irritating if not outright painful.

And what the fuck is up with those foot long super grenades? That shit was awesome lethal- hows about you try putting those in a god damn Autobot weapon?

Prototypes. As in, Q had just made them not too long ago. And they didn't seem to do anymore damage than Bumblebee's arm cannon does at close range so the autobots hardly need them.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The military's actions were actually pretty believable to me in TF3. The 'cons have Chicago locked down. They're making probing strikes in the air trying to penetrate, but all the heavy air is getting swatted down.

To get a team in they throw everything they have at the south as a feint, and then come in from the north. They got a bunch of SEALS in underwater, which isn't fast, who linked up with the NEST guys. Then when they got word that the team had actually managed to open a hole in the defenses, they sent a massive tomahawk strike.

Facing overwhelming technological superiority, the military did the smart thing; Hang back, check for weaknesses, and exploit them.

[Anguirus]

^ Yeah, that's something this movie did that was really missing from the last two. We saw less outright mil-wank, but more smart tactics from all sides. The battle at the end of RotF was just a mob running into cannon fire. This battle was almost too complex for film (note how much had to be explained with quick lines of dialogue) but felt vastly more realistic.

Of course, you should see certain fans bitch about how stupid it is that the military can do ANYTHING against Decepticons. I don't agree with that. I do think, however, that it should feel like they earned those victories. Something 1 and 3 got right, and 2 got wrong. I think the scene with Shockwave was slightly mishandled (as noted above) but didn't have a problem in principle with all the mercs and NEST mangling him. (He just needed to mangle them back!)

[Srelex]

Saw it--better than I expected, and was okay overall. Still wasn't as good as the first, but eh.

I did feel that the ending was pretty damn abrupt--Optimus kills Sentinel and Megatron, makes a quick speech, bam, credits. At least show some clips of everyone going their ways or something.

[Kurgan]

As someone who actually enjoyed the first two movies (the second with reservations), I went in with rock bottom expectations. I made a point to even see it in 3D, but it just seemed really stale and boring, which was odd for a film with so much action.

There was maybe 4 minutes of footage I really liked. Yes, TF2 was silly, but I enjoyed that more than this pile.

For a more graphic illustration that sums up my feelings about this movie, check out the scene of Palpatine in the chair at the beginning of Episode III. Not the fight, Palpatine's reaction. He just sits there during this "epic" fight. At one point we get one "yeah" out of him. Then at the end he's like "Kill him, kill him now. Do it."

All the life has been sucked from this film franchise for me. Like Spider-man 3, it's made me not care if they ever make another one.