Airwolf vs bay transformer

[Themightytom]

Didn't the cell phone that turned into a transformer shoot teeny tiny guided miissiles? I feel like if IT had them, the bigger guys must

[StarSword]

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was?

20mm according to the information I've got. That's a shell only two-thirds the size of the ones Scorponok withstood pretty well.

So 30mm cannon count as small arms. Sorry, I hadn't noticed we switched to discussing WH40K. Redwolf did jack shit to Airwolf when firing its guns at it. Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?

I haven't seen that episode, and unless my Internet connection improves within the next day or so, I probably won't. Conceded.

Being able to withstand small arms does not automatically equate to being able to withstand, say, one of Ironhide's arm-cannons.

Apparently Bayformers CAN be hurt by modern day infantry weapons too, and since when is 30mm small arms (see above)?

For some bizarre reason they nerfed the Transformers' defenses starting in ROTF. I'm going by their highest observed numbers (and the highest numbers I have personally observed from Airwolf). In TF, small arms had virtually no effect.

While I'm at it, it doesn't really matter that Airwolf has a learning ability. Leaving aside the fact that it's usually under manual control of its pilot, you can't learn from an encounter if you don't survive it.

What makes you think it wouldn't?

Weight of numbers is in the Transformers' favor, even if you just count the flight-capable ones (the ones I know about are Starscream, Megatron, and Jetfire). And I had evidently underestimated the strength of Airwolf's armor.

That only helps if the Transformers use anything remotely like radar, and that any homing weapons they have are infrared- or radar-guided.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

I'll buy the sniping argument, but as Themightytom pointed out, even the newborn Nokia-former had guided missiles. Also, you're forgetting the missiles Starscream used to destroy the generators powering the Megatron deep-freeze.

[SylasGaunt]

Having watched only the first movie I have to ask. Is there anywhere mentioned that they used sabot rounds? I mean, presumably against a target of unknown composition like a giant robot firing HEAT would make much more sense as there is a higher potential to make a horrible wound rather than just punching clear through. Although on that note HE makes even more sense when you look at the surface of some of them. I mean, it's like they don't have any skin.

If you go by the novelization the F-22s are using some kind of explosively fired penetrator.. could be the same thing with the 40mms. Or they could just be HEAT and someone got their terminology screwed.

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was?

All 30mm cannons are not created equal. If airwolf is packing 30mm guns then they're short barreled ones, not the car sized weapon an A-10 is packing.

Also, you're happily ignoring that Airwolf does damage way in excess of what the weapons it allegedly is using aught to be able to do.

Whereas Bayformers can apparently at least be inconvenienced by low velocity 40mm grenades

Yeah, would it kill TVland to listen to a military adviser every once in a while?

Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?

The explosion we have no way to gauge either the size or the penetration of because we don't see the impact point or have anything to scale it with?

Apparently Bayformers CAN be hurt by modern day infantry weapons too, and since when is 30mm small arms (see above)?

By using either heavy weapons, unknown firearms with massive barrel sizes (seriously, actually look at the size of the barrels on a lot of the NEST guns), or by hitting them in vulnerable places like the optics. There's very little that we've seen the US military bring to bear that has been capable of one-shotting a transformer.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

As opposed to say Redwolf that was fighting at such a close range its pilot could be blinded by a flare?

[Connor MacLeod]

Airwolf's armament seems to vary according to which source you believe. There was this image I found on one website, but on others I hear audio commentary lists them with 30mm instead of 40mm cannon. And I then further hear some sources (like what comes with the DVD) gives them 30mm chainguns and 40mm cannon, plus a shit-ton of missile variants. No mention of the 3-shot rocket launcher thing (unless THAT is what is supposed to be launching the missiles. If it is it's a fucking huge launcher system thats all I can say. And I dont know where they carry all those damn missiles.)

[Connor MacLeod]

I even hear they got a laser at some point. Its been ages since I saw that show (and I was a kid when I watched it) so the details elude me

[Stark]

Some of Airwolf's stuff changed in the middle of the show because they realized they were stepping on some weapon maker's trademarks...

How does this stuff work? Obviously I guess the owner of weapon trademarks and names can lean on people to not use their marks, but I wonder what makes them do that. Plenty of fiction depicts their weapons in a neutral or bad way, but plenty also pre-empts problems by having EMPY-5s and stuff.

[Batman]

Having watched only the first movie I have to ask. Is there anywhere mentioned that they used sabot rounds? I mean, presumably against a target of unknown composition like a giant robot firing HEAT would make much more sense as there is a higher potential to make a horrible wound rather than just punching clear through. Although on that note HE makes even more sense when you look at the surface of some of them. I mean, it's like they don't have any skin.

If you go by the novelization the F-22s are using some kind of explosively fired penetrator. Could be the same thing with the 40mms. Or they could just be HEAT and someone got their terminology screwed.

Unless I'm VERY much mistaken the 40mm rounds used were called Sabots in the movie-which would be patently stupid if they were real Sabots (40 mm grenade launchers tend to have a rather low muzzle velocity compared to other firearms and Sabot rounds sort of work by going really really fast) and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if what they actually were depicted as doing was HEAT round work. They'd still be 40mm HEAT rounds though.

Three guesses as to what the calibre of Airwolf's cannon was?

All 30mm cannons are not created equal. If airwolf is packing 30mm guns then they're short barreled ones, not the car sized weapon an A-10 is packing.

The Avenger is nowhere car sized. It's merely car length. And I very much doubt it has anywhere near the firepower Airwolf's 30mm cannon have. The GAU-8/A is really good at penetrating armour. Blowing stuff up? Not so much. Airwolf's guns apparently can do both (mainly due to not actually having to follow the laws of physics).

Also, you're happily ignoring that Airwolf does damage way in excess of what the weapons it allegedly is using aught to be able to do.

Whereas Bayformers can apparently at least be inconvenienced by low velocity 40mm grenades

Yeah, would it kill TVland to listen to a military adviser every once in a while?

You're welcome to quantify the damage done by those 40 mm grenades (or any other weapon used against the Decepticons) any time you like. Show me those 40 mm grenades performed better than their real world brethren.

Heck it did jack shit wen hitting it with the laser. You know, the one that caused a rather largish explosion when hitting the ground?

The explosion we have no way to gauge either the size or the penetration of because we don't see the impact point or have anything to scale it with?

I'd rewatch the video if I were you. There's a goodly amount of landscape to scale it against. Yes that looks like a moderately impressive explosion. Nowhere beyond modern day explosives but impressive-and that same beam hitting Airwolf...caused the usual gee we're being shot at sparks.

I'll agree that that's moderately irrelevant as the Bayverse Transformers apparently don't have any guided weapons. Airwolf, however, does, and even more important has weapons with ranges worth mentioning whereas the Bayformers always duke it out at infantry fighting ranges. Airwolf wins by default due to being able to stay out of range and sniping at them from a distance.

As opposed to say Redwolf that was fighting at such a close range its pilot could be blinded by a flare?

Sunburst. Get your Airwolf lore straight. In Airwolf, the IR decoys that are used to distract heat-seeking missiles are called sunbursts.
And kindly remember that was Hawk toying with that idiot flying Redwolf, and said idiot, apart from being an idiot, having a grudge to settle, so they weren't exactly interested in extending and duking it out from a distance. The fact remains that Airwolf has displayed weapons range roughly on par with contemporary real world weapons while the Bayformers have not.

[Stark]

Yeah, they constantly say IMMUNE TO ALL BUT SUPERHOT SABOTS, and then fire grenades at them. They're pretty obviously incompetent and have no idea what they're talking about.

[inviz345]

the missile launcher is lowered under nether. i think that air wolf can change missile before missions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIS7Whv1 ... re=related intro you can see the launcher

[SylasGaunt]

Unless I'm VERY much mistaken the 40mm rounds used were called Sabots in the movie-which would be patently stupid if they were real Sabots (40 mm grenade launchers tend to have a rather low muzzle velocity compared to other firearms and Sabot rounds sort of work by going really really fast) and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if what they actually were depicted as doing was HEAT round work. They'd still be 40mm HEAT rounds though.

And Redwolf is supposedly armed with cannons that can apparently perfectly mimic the appearance of a normal helicopter wing. Yes they call them sabots and put them in a platform where they don't work well. With that said I'd say they were probably using the same explosive fired sabot system the novelization says the F-22s were using.

The Avenger is nowhere car sized. It's merely car length. And I very much doubt it has anywhere near the firepower Airwolf's 30mm cannon have. The GAU-8/A is really good at penetrating armour. Blowing stuff up? Not so much. Airwolf's guns apparently can do both (mainly due to not actually having to follow the laws of physics).

Yeah, because HE explosions without any focus are rubbish against armor. Couple it with some fragmentation and it's great against aircraft though. http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/6989/g ... er2bc0.jpg

Oh and wait.. we're letting Airwolf's guns ignore what should be real world limitations but not the TF 40mm sabots?

You're welcome to quantify the damage done by those 40 mm grenades (or any other weapon used against the Decepticons) any time you like. Show me those 40 mm grenades performed better than their real world brethren.

It just seems odd that one side is claiming that the other side has to obey the real world performance issues of their weapons and then using the fact that airwolf ignores the real world performance issues of its parts as an argument. And they caused noticeable damage to Transformers who we see resisting 30mm fire from A-10s and in the second film hits from Bushmasters and smashing into a fucking aircraft carrier hard enough to sink it.

I'd rewatch the video if I were you. There's a goodly amount of landscape to scale it against. Yes that looks like a moderately impressive explosion. Nowhere beyond modern day explosives but impressive-and that same beam hitting Airwolf...caused the usual gee we're being shot at sparks.

Eh. The first time it hits it strikes behind a little hillock and throws a lot of dirt in the air. The second time it causes an explosion in a flat chunk of desert, but we don't get to see the resulting hole or the like.

Sunburst. Get your Airwolf lore straight. In Airwolf, the IR decoys that are used to distract heat-seeking missiles are called sunbursts.

It doesn't change the fact that most of that fight consisted of Airwolf flying around and the other guy firing Mavericks and Hellfires like dumb-fire rockets. Also that he was close enough teh damn sunburst almost bounced off his fucking windshield (on teh same note, maybe it's lack of context but why didn't the old guy just blow redwolf to shit when they were sitting there facing each other?).

And kindly remember that was Hawk toying with that idiot flying Redwolf, and said idiot, apart from being an idiot, having a grudge to settle, so they weren't exactly interested in extending and duking it out from a distance. The fact remains that Airwolf has displayed weapons range roughly on par with contemporary real world weapons while the Bayformers have not.

Because the majority of the fighting in the transformers movies has taken place in built up environments where you aren't going to get a lot of that distance (cities, ruins).

Of course since the OP said all the TFs doesn't that mean the Fallen could just grab Airwolf out of the sky with his Mojo and spike it into the dirt?