Mass Effect Reapers VS Star Wars Empire/Rebels

[Ted C]

I doubt the Alliance could successfully fend of a Reaper attack. They possess a single star system which still isn't fully under their control, given the rampant illegal activities conducted on the outer planets. They have no FTL systems, so despite the Reaper's rather slow FTL speed compared to other Sci-Fi verses, they'd possess a major mobility advantage in such a small contained area as the Firefly solar system. If they come in with that kind of advantage and the numbers to devastate a galaxy, (yes the mass relay ruse gave them a significant initial advantage, but they still needed enough ships to go out and conquer everybody. They didn't just do it one planet at a time) They could probably pull it off.

Now that you mention it, you're right. The Alliance couldn't stop a full-scale Reaper invasion. I was thinking of something more the scale of Sovereign's attack on the Citadel.

[Stark]

You mean where he drove directly through a kilometre-long spaceship without damage or even slowing down, then one-shot dozens of ships with invisbily small guns? ME is a bit crap (and weaker than the designers perhaps intended) but they aren't armed with grappling hooks and revolvers.

Even if the reaper/reaver thing wasn't obviously a joke (ps, it was obviously a joke) there's just no chance.

[PREDATOR490]

If the Reapers are ever to invade the Star Wars galaxy, considering the strength and abilities of both side as we had seen so far, who might win? What would happen over the course of the war? How might the Reapers overcome the defenses of the Galaxy and how would the Star Wars Galaxy react to the sudden appearance of the Reapers?

The only thing the Reapers have going for them in this setting is their extreme longevity and indoctrination ability.
In theory these things can sit in the middle of nowhere for thousands of years indoctrinating individuals in the Star Wars galaxy until they can upgrade their tech to match.
That or just indoctrinate the crew of the Death Star and have a ball blowing up planets.

The Reapers havent demonstrated much in the way of abilities beyond being around a long time and indoctrination.
Their technological advantage over the ME universe will not translate into SW where things smaller than 2km pack a helluva lot more punch at greater ranges.
I.E Star Destroyer

I would be kinda curious if Jedi / Sith can be indoctrinated since that gives the Reapers a direct line into the Emperor... who was dealing with Ssi-Ruuk to get automated drones of some description if I remember.
I could easily see the Emperor either being used as a puppet by the Reapers OR the Emperor turns THEM into his bitch to make everyone loyal to the Imperial Reapers.

I'm imagining legions of Reaper Star Destroyers filled with indoctrinated Imperial Crew the Emperor sending hate speech to Skywalker after "Assuming Control" of Storm Troopers in the field.

[Imperial528]

One thing about indoctrination is that it is very short ranged and takes a long time to effect someone in a manor other than turning them into husks. And even husk-making takes something on the order of weeks, and that is when being inside a reaper.

The way Soveriegn was able to indoctrinate large amounts of people with ease was because it not only had persuaded -and eventually indoctrinated- Saren to join its cause, it also was able to stay out of sight as a threat because of its superior technological capabilities, control of mass relays, and the alliance with the Geth heretics. Not to mention that for quite some time the council refused to believe Soveriegn even existed, and even at the end they blamed Saren and the Geth.

In Star Wars, it's going to be a lot harder to be subtle. And if a reaper or ten try to just show up and indoctrinate an Imperial facility, they will get their asses handed to them on a silver platter.

[inviz345]

we know that they faster than star wars ships what if they could hack droids to geta a droid army so star wars win. rebels lose

[Kinyo]

One thing about indoctrination is that it is very short ranged and takes a long time to effect someone in a manor other than turning them into husks. And even husk-making takes something on the order of weeks, and that is when being inside a reaper.

Not quite true with the Husk making.

Relying on memory a bit here but at the start of the first ME game its made clear that the Normandy SR1 is not more than a couple of hours away from Eden Prime when the attack by Soverign starts. (This is assuming that the message we sent as Soverign was arriving as it appears its arrival shuts down communications planetwide so getting a recorded message out days after would have been difficult and a more meaning message could have been sent.) So from the Normandy receiving the message to it arriving and deploying Nihlus and Shep's team you got a couple of hours for Soverign and the geth to start with the whole stabby on the big spike milarky that supposedly makes the husks.

[PREDATOR490]

we know that they faster than star wars ships what if they could hack droids to geta a droid army so star wars win. rebels lose

The Reapers couldnt hack the Geth with their super FTL network and they demonstrated no ability to magically hack anything in their own setting which has been cultured to developed along technological paths they desire. How the hell the Reapers are going to enter a completely different galaxy and hack machines they have no understanding of and DONT have a massive network ?

Droids like the TF might be more vulnerable to that kind of situation but it's not like the Reapers have demonstrated the ability to remotely hack into independant platforms like R2-D2 or C3PO.

[Imperial528]

One thing about indoctrination is that it is very short ranged and takes a long time to effect someone in a manor other than turning them into husks. And even husk-making takes something on the order of weeks, and that is when being inside a reaper.

Not quite true with the Husk making.

Relying on memory a bit here but at the start of the first ME game its made clear that the Normandy SR1 is not more than a couple of hours away from Eden Prime when the attack by Soverign starts. (This is assuming that the message we sent as Soverign was arriving as it appears its arrival shuts down communications planetwide so getting a recorded message out days after would have been difficult and a more meaning message could have been sent.) So from the Normandy receiving the message to it arriving and deploying Nihlus and Shep's team you got a couple of hours for Soverign and the geth to start with the whole stabby on the big spike milarky that supposedly makes the husks.

Well yes, the dragon's teeth make husks within a matter of hours. But high-level officers are useless as husks, and indoctrination alone won't make husks until A. one of them snaps and starts throwing his/her crewmates onto dragon's teeth, or B. their minds rot and they become husks, like what happened to the Salarian commandos trapped by Saren on Virmire, both of which take considerable time.

[Forgothrax]

While the Reapers are going to get their asses handed to them on a silver platter no matter what, I think it would be foolish to discount them completely. There's anywhere from a couple hundred to several thousand Reapers, and given lead time to observe, influence, and indoctrinate those a Reaper comes in contact with the Reapers might be able to actually get their hands on enough SW tech and ground troops to give the ruling power in question a small sector rebellion. They would lose, of course, but I doubt that the Reapers are stupid enough to go smash themselves like bugs on an ISD.

[Omeganian]

While the Reapers are going to get their asses handed to them on a silver platter no matter what, I think it would be foolish to discount them completely. There's anywhere from a couple hundred to several thousand Reapers

They intended to make a Reaper out of the several billion human in existence. The civilizations they attack can often number in trillions. There could be millions of them (I have a one shot in mind which is based on them being thousands, but most of the organic matter being hoarded to build a Death Star).

[Ford Prefect]

No that was a gun someone else used on a reaper millions of years ago. The trench was on a planet called Klendagon and it went over a good portion of the planet's surface. That round 'missed' so to speak, but its trajectory could be determined and the 'carcass' of a dead reaper was found in low orbit of a brown dwarf.

Klendagon's Great Rift is over 8500km long and over 400km wide. While the exact usage of the gun is pretty ambiguous, like all things it should be within the grasp of the Reapers. That shouldn't be so surprising given that they created the mass relays, which have so much mass-energy tied up into them that one detonating destroyed a whole star system.

[PREDATOR490]

Klendagon's Great Rift is over 8500km long and over 400km wide. While the exact usage of the gun is pretty ambiguous, like all things it should be within the grasp of the Reapers. That shouldn't be so surprising given that they created the mass relays, which have so much mass-energy tied up into them that one detonating destroyed a whole star system.

Since Soverign didnt magically obliterate the system when it died I dont see how this is relevant in the Star Wars setting.
Are the Reapers suddenly showing up building Mass Relays in Coruscant, Hoth, Bespin, Kuat, Yavin just so they can detonate them ?

[Omeganian]

Klendagon's Great Rift is over 8500km long and over 400km wide. While the exact usage of the gun is pretty ambiguous, like all things it should be within the grasp of the Reapers. That shouldn't be so surprising given that they created the mass relays, which have so much mass-energy tied up into them that one detonating destroyed a whole star system.

Since Soverign didnt magically obliterate the system when it died I dont see how this is relevant in the Star Wars setting.
Are the Reapers suddenly showing up building Mass Relays in Coruscant, Hoth, Bespin, Kuat, Yavin just so they can detonate them ?

Just because an amount of uranium is below the critical mass, doesn't mean the energy is not inside it. Of course, tapping it under such conditions might not as easy, and we have seen no indication of the Reapers or anyone else being capable of that (for a Reaper core, the corresponding amount of energy could be on planet shattering levels).

[Imperial528]

It's important to consider also the method of destruction. The Alpha Relay was destroyed by getting rammed by an asteroid, so it's not like a purpose-built system was triggered, imho.

There is also the possibility that the mass effect cores on individual reapers are designed so that they go off less catastrophically than the cores on mass relays, so that when crushing the organic races one being killed doesn't commit fratricide and light up the entire fleet.

Of course, we also have evidence of what happens when a reaper's mass effect core is damaged directly, when the "dead" reaper's core is destroyed, it doesn't go up in a world-ending explosion. The explosion isn't seen in its full effect, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was rather large.

[Omeganian]

Nah, in ME2 you destroy a core point blank with handheld weapons.

[Ford Prefect]

I'm not suggesting they're going to tool around with supernovas in jars, just indicating the sort of scale they are supposed to operate on as a group.

[Connor MacLeod]

Since Soverign didnt magically obliterate the system when it died I dont see how this is relevant in the Star Wars setting.
Are the Reapers suddenly showing up building Mass Relays in Coruscant, Hoth, Bespin, Kuat, Yavin just so they can detonate them ?

We don't really know how the weapons work - for all we know its like the giant multi-stage railguns used in Revelation space (powered by IIRc nuclear reactors and expendable rails for example.) We also don't know how the Reapers defend againt it - their mass effect fields could be so advanced and precise they can simply nudge them out of the way at great distances to cause them to miss (or use the sheer momentum to push themselves out of the way 'ala Bergenholm drive)

this would be like arguing that the Superlaser is invalid because the Executor didn't blow up the entire Endor system in ROTJ.

[Ted C]

We don't really know how the weapons work - for all we know its like the giant multi-stage railguns used in Revelation space (powered by IIRc nuclear reactors and expendable rails for example.) We also don't know how the Reapers defend againt it - their mass effect fields could be so advanced and precise they can simply nudge them out of the way at great distances to cause them to miss (or use the sheer momentum to push themselves out of the way 'ala Bergenholm drive) this would be like arguing that the Superlaser is invalid because the Executor didn't blow up the entire Endor system in ROTJ.

If I'm reading the fluff right, a mass effect barrier is essentially a gravitational force field that shoves projectiles away (the primary weapons in mass effect being mass accelerators of one kind or another). Ships rely on armor to resist energy attacks, directed or radiant.

[PREDATOR490]

Straight From the Codex

Weapons: Mass Accelerators

Mass accelerators propel solid metal slugs via electromagnetic attraction and repulsion. A slug lightened by a mass effect field can be accelerated to extremely high speeds, permitting previously unattainable projectile velocities.

The primary determinant of a mass accelerator's destructive power is length. The longer the barrel, the longer the slug can be accelerated, the higher the slug's final velocity, and therefore the greater its kinetic impact. Slugs are designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy they transfer to its target. Without collapsibility, slugs would punch through their targets while inflicting only minimal damage.

Rather than being mounted on the exterior, starship guns are housed inside hulls and visible only as gun portholes from outside.

A ship's main gun is a large spinal-mount weapon running 90% of the hull's length. While possessing destructive power equal to that of tactical nuclear weapons, main guns are difficult to aim. Because ships must be able to point their bows almost directly at their targets, main guns are best used for long-range "bombardment" fire.

Approximately 40% of the hull's width, broadside guns inflict less damage and can be mounted with greater numbers and more flexibility. The modern human Kilimanjaro-class dreadnoughts mount three decks with 26 broadside accelerators apiece for a total salvo weight of 78 slugs per side, firing once every two seconds.

However, mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. While the mass effect fields suspending the rounds mitigate the recoil, recoil shock can still rattle crews and damage systems.

Sovereign

Sovereign is the flagship of the rogue Spectre Saren. An enormous dreadnought larger than any other ship in any known fleet, Sovereign is crewed with both geth and krogan. At two kilometers long, its spinal-mounted main gun is likely capable of penetrating another dreadnought's kinetic barriers with a single shot.

Starships: Dreadnought

Mass Effect

The dreadnought is the ultimate arbiter of space warfare; millions of tons of metal, ceramic, and polymer dedicated to the projection of firepower against an enemy vessel of like ability. No sane commander would face a dreadnought with anything less than another dreadnought.

A dreadnought's power lies in the length of its main gun. Dreadnoughts range from 800 meters to one kilometer long, with a main gun of commensurate length. An 800-meter mass accelerator is capable of accelerating one 20 kg. slug to a velocity of 4025 km/s every two seconds. Each slug has the kinetic energy of 38 kilotons1 of TNT, three times the energy released by the fission weapon that destroyed Hiroshima.

When used to bombard planets, some of this kinetic energy is lost due to atmospheric re-entry friction. As a rule of thumb, each Earth-atmosphere of air pressure saps approximately 20% of a projectile's impact energy.

The turian fleet presently has 37 dreadnoughts; the asari, 21; and the salarians, 16. Humanity has six with an additional hull under construction at Arcturus Station. Alliance battleships are named for the mountains of Earth.

Normandy Weapon Upgrade: Thanix Magnetic-Hydrodynamic

Following the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers conducted a massive three-month survey effort to clear the station's orbit of debris. Secretly, the turian Office of Technological Reconnaissance "volunteers" were technology recovery specialists salvaging the main weapon of the geth flagship Sovereign, and large amounts of its valuable element zero core.

Contrary to popular belief, Sovereign's main gun was not a directed energy weapon. Rather, its massive element zero core powered an electromagnetic field suspending a liquid iron-uranium-tungsten alloy that shaped into armor-piercing projectiles when fired. The jet of molten metal, accelerated to a fraction of the speed of light, destroys targets by impact force and irresistible heat.

Only 11 months after the battle, the turians produced the Thanix, their own miniaturized version of Sovereign's gun. The Thanix can fire reliably every five seconds, rivaling a cruiser's firepower but mountable on a fighter or frigate.

Weapons: GARDIAN

GARDIAN lasers typically operate in infrared frequencies. Shorter frequencies would offer superior stopping power and range, but degradation of focal arrays and mirrors would make them expensive to maintain, and most prefer mechanical reliability over leading-edge performance where lives are concerned. Salarians, however, use near-ultraviolet frequency lasers with six times the range, believing that having additional time to shoot down incoming missiles is more important.

Lasers are not blocked by the kinetic barriers of capital ships. However, the range of lasers limits their use to rare "knife fight"-range ship-to-ship combat.

Normandy Shield Upgrade: Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT)

Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) attempts to solve the higher-end limitations of traditional kinetic barriers. Traditional barriers cannot block high-level kinetic energy attacks such as disruptor torpedoes because torpedo mass effect fields add mass. The CBT violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, ships create rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball.

Weapons: Ablative Armor

A warship's kinetic barriers reduce the damage from solid objects, but can do nothing to block GARDIAN lasers, particle beams, and other forms of Directed Energy Weapon (DEW). The inner layer of warship protection consists of ablative armor plate designed to "boil away" when heated. The vaporized armor material scatters a DEW beam, rendering it ineffectual.

[Connor MacLeod]

If I'm reading the fluff right, a mass effect barrier is essentially a gravitational force field that shoves projectiles away (the primary weapons in mass effect being mass accelerators of one kind or another). Ships rely on armor to resist energy attacks, directed or radiant.

That's some of it. but the whole "element zero' and mass effect field stuff has a whole range of effects, which include (IIRC) reactionless drives and antigrav abilities, cee-fractional kinetic weapons (with greatly reduced momentum apparently, so there's a significant Andromedaverse-style 'mass lightening' effect going on somehow), and the whole biotics thing (psychic powers). Oh yeah adn then there's the torpedoes that go heavier to get through kinetic barriers as I recall.

Basically it owuld be like saying SW could harness the Force to revolutionize many facets of its technology and society (space travel, warfare, etc.) and that you could manufacture Jedi. Or maybe I'm just reading into KOTOR/Mass Effect parallels too much, because I can't think of how they could quite pull everything off without some sort of magic galaxy-spanning forcefield/energy source they could tap at will. That last bit is just my speculation of course - they don't really explain it in detail.

[Ford Prefect]

so there's a significant Andromedaverse-style 'mass lightening' effect going on somehow

Dude, it's called 'Mass Effect'. IE. it is an effect which controls mass.

[Connor MacLeod]

Damn! I should have thought of that!

[Xon]

The Mass Effect also violates conservation of momentum. And arguable, weakly, violates conservation of energy.

That is a projectile in the mass accelerator has had it's mass effectively reduced and then it is accelerated at the "cost" of the accelerating the lower mass projectile. When the projectile leaves the Mass Effect field, it reverts to the full mass at the same velocity. It doesn't magically slow down.

[Ritterin Sophia]

No that was a gun someone else used on a reaper millions of years ago. The trench was on a planet called Klendagon and it went over a good portion of the planet's surface. That round 'missed' so to speak, but its trajectory could be determined and the 'carcass' of a dead reaper was found in low orbit of a brown dwarf.

Incidentally that reaper had been dead for millions of years but apparently it could still maintain a mass effect field that withstood much of the atmospheric turbulence it was getting hit with. Also its indoctrination ability was still up and running.

It was my understanding that the weapon that dug the trench on Klendagon was the one that took out that Reaper and that the Reaper was still alive, just left comatose.

[Xon]

It was my understanding that the weapon that dug the trench on Klendagon was the one that took out that Reaper and that the Reaper was still alive, just left comatose.

The 37 million years derelict reaper's nanites were still viable, as the dozens of husks Shepard has to battle through in that mission demonstrates. Besides the area you walkthought open to space, most of the Reaper appears to be was structurally intact.