What Would It Take?

[jollyreaper]

You asked what it would take. A massive uprising by the US population is what it would take, no small group, no matter how advanced could have a chance because of the safeguards built into the command and control structure of the US government and military. As for what the war on terror has to do with it, terrorism is not a real threat to the US for this same reason, which is why a global war on terrorism is just a way to keep the populace focused on external enemies and not actually fix the internal issues that exist.

The Cobra scenario would pretty much be the Birch Society paranoia wet dream, the idea that there's a cabal of traitors within our own society willing to sell us all out in a cult-like allegiance to a foreign entity.

Given the way Cobra was presented in the comics, they have some fairly hefty corporate clout already. They could probably operate entirely within the law and make a sizable profit, especially considering how many terrible things can be done by companies that are still completely legal. Being all Cobra-like and terroristy would end up coming across like Doctor Evil wanting to do terrible things to extort a million dollars from world leaders while his companies are already earning billions operating within the law.

When you consider the shit that Wall Street got away with in the financial crisis, shit so huge nobody could even agree on the scope of the crime, being a nuclear terrorist seems like small potatoes. "Clone the evilest leaders of world history to create a super-leader for your own terrorist cult organization?" scoffs Loyd Blankfiend of Goldman Sachs. "Fag."

[cadbrowser]

You asked what it would take. A massive uprising by the US population is what it would take, no small group, no matter how advanced could have a chance because of the safeguards built into the command and control structure of the US government and military. As for what the war on terror has to do with it, terrorism is not a real threat to the US for this same reason, which is why a global war on terrorism is just a way to keep the populace focused on external enemies and not actually fix the internal issues that exist.

Maybe then I don't see why these safeguards are so important and I should do a bit more research to understand them better. Cause my ignorant brain is not fully comprehending here.

I can see where you are comming from on a vauge standpoint...but I need to better to understand this safeguard and how it's so preventative from being taken over or destroyed.

Thanks.

The technological capabilities, for example, needed would have to be greater than that of the United States military, which wouldn't make any sense, unless if this is a secret society of super geniuses or something akin to that.

Other than that, as others have said, you'd need such a massive proportion of the populace openly hostile to the government, that they would have voted Congress out a long time ago.

Well apparently it seems that in the "Cobra" world there is at least one. I understand that the US spends more on it's military budget than any other country in the world (sometimes...MANY times more).

So it would seeme to me as mentioned elsewhere that it would be easier for a band like Cobra to take over a smaller dictatorship than the US.

(If you're curious how much money it'll take to overpower the US, I calculated what the military can buy if each citizen pays one dollar in taxes each day. Remember that each US citizen pays significantly more in taxes, in real life. Think you can match that?)

Taken from linked post(12-24-2007):

The US currently has a population of 303,048,000. Let's assume each citizen pays one dollar in taxes each day-- that means the government can collect $110,612,520,000 per year, enough to pay the annual salaries of 6,457,994 soldiers, or buy 25,428 M1 tanks, or 803 F-22 Raptors, or 85 Zumwalt class destroyers. That's just with one dollar per citizen per day-- of course, we know the US government collects a lot more in taxes. Can anyone name a corporation with comparable resources?

Over 110 billion/yr huh...just from $1 per day. Wow, that's a crazy perspective. Let's see, that would be just a share of the profits a given corporation would have.

Link: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... s/profits/

Nestle 32,843,000,000 profits in 2010.

Geez! Ok...point taken.

A private organisation could not build a conventional force to defeat the US military.

Nor could any current government.

I don't think it'd take very long for China to be able to. But, that's a moot point since you've indicated "current" government.

Considering US military service members are required to swear an oath to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION- and by extension, the US government, which enforces the constitution- you need to infiltrate a MASSIVE amount of people to pull off a coup.

I would venture to agree that the swearing of the Oath isn't as important since I think if you throw enough money at someone they will eventually comply. Your sheer cost argument is sufficient to rule out the possiblilty.

But, to run with your premise, what would it take for Cobra to win? Well, what is Cobra? What are they offering? Why would an up and coming go-getter sign on with them rather than their own country?

Cobra would represent a meritocracy. No ties to the existing power structure in your own country? No worries. If you have ambition, if you're willing to fuck your own grandma for a seat at the table of power, you're our kind of guy. There is no limit to what you can accomplish so long as you believe greed is good and desire is the highest calling of the human animal. If you want it, you can have it, so long as you earn it. All is permitted under the law.

Of course, the philosophical underpinnings of conflict are not what we typically think of when we think of a good, comic book fight between people with cool toys. If dictators are oppressing their people, the fight is not going to involve tank on tank and jet on jet. There may be tanks and jets but they'll all belong to the dictator and will be stomping the shit out of the amateurs. If you're not talking nation-state versus nation-state in an existential battle for survival, it's going to be proxy wars in pissant client states using weapons supplied by powerful nation-states.

UGH! I do not have the answers to your questions. Your last two paragraphs make a lot more sense. Call me guilty of thinking with my "teenage" brain..damn.

I do like the idea of a meritocracy. Seems like a interresting setting in an MMORPG type game; or like a sim-type game. Might be fun tho. Hmmm.

The Cobra scenario would pretty much be the Birch Society paranoia wet dream, the idea that there's a cabal of traitors within our own society willing to sell us all out in a cult-like allegiance to a foreign entity.

Given the way Cobra was presented in the comics, they have some fairly hefty corporate clout already. They could probably operate entirely within the law and make a sizable profit, especially considering how many terrible things can be done by companies that are still completely legal.

YES! This is exactly what I was thinking when I initially posted it.