Colony Rescue on LV-426

[Borgholio]

I'm personally not a big fan of plot devices that serve to nerf one or more of the advantages of either the good guys or the bad. So with that said, I'm going to assume that everything works as it "should".

1. Federation troops - their sensors are typically portrayed as being accurate enough to sense lifeforms from orbit. So they'd probably immediately see only two survivors (Newt and the colonist that the Marines found in the reactor area). They'd beam those survivors up, the biofilter would detect the chestburster and it'd be removed. Planet is quarantined and / or colony is torpedoed from orbit. As a side note, in some obscure canon backstory there actually is a planet in Federation space with a Xeno-like creature living on it. The planet is quarantined of course. For the life of me I can't find the reference though. Argh...

2. Stormtroopers - they are trained to handle countless kinds of alien species and they are not dumb enough to disarm themselves when going into a hostile situation. They would go in, find the colonists dead in the reactor, and probably set off the alien ambush after they killed the chestburster...similar to the Marines. With that said, a platoon of Stormtroopers would have the standard E-11 blaster which is powerful enough to blow a Xeno to bits, plus they might have a couple heavy repeaters as part of the standard equipment of a platoon. Their armor would likely resist Xeno blood-acid, and they would leave at least a couple of their number outside guarding the shuttle as S.O.P so a random Xeno wouldn't stowaway. They'd take off and call in a BDZ.

3. Earthforce GROPOS - they appear to be trained and armed similar to Stormtroopers, and often used in much the same fashion (boarding parties, shock troops, etc...). PPGs are not as powerful as a blaster rifle but then again that just means it's less likely they'd set off the reactor with a few stray shots. Their sensors are not as advanced so I'd say that once they entered the reactor, they'd fight their way out with more losses than the Stormtroopers. As with the Stormtroopers, they'd leave a couple sentries guarding the shuttle. Once safely in orbit they'd nuke the colony.

4. Stargate - they would probably fare they worst out of the lot. One of the SG teams would stick behind to guard the gate, which is S.O.P, so it's unlikely anything will sneak through the gate back to Earth that way. The other 15 troops would go into the reactor and after being ambushed, would probably escape with heavy casualties. They are military trained but I doubt a P-90 will have the same punch as a blaster or a PPG. The rapid fire would definitely make it easier to shoot targets that move as fast as the Xenos though... Anywho when the survivors get back to the gate they'd dial home and send a MALP back with a nuke on it to destroy the gate and the colony. If they witnessed the colonist explode down in the nest, they would probably be smart enough to quarantine the surviving SG members and X-ray them to make sure they're not carrying any unwanted guests...especially if an SG member who got infected manages to dial home before the MALP explodes.

[Borgholio]

Oh one more thing...the title of this thread is "Colony Rescue". Every scenario thus far starts with the colony already being taken over by Xeons with only one or two survivors. A true rescue would be arriving before it's too late for the majority of the civilians. With that said, FTL tech in the Aliens universe takes a few weeks to get from Earth to LV-426, which is 37 LY away in Zeta Reticuli. A few weeks is long enough for the colonists to be overwhelmed. However, the FTL tech of Star Trek and B-5 can allow a ship to arrive in days at the most, while Imperial ships and traveling by Stargate can both arrive in minutes from the time of departure. This means the colony would actually be mostly saved since the infestation could be controlled at this early stage.

And let's not get into the bigger picture that major civilizations such as the Federation, Empire, or Earth Alliance would likely send way more than just a single platoon...a large Federation ship has a hundred redshirts or more. An Omega-class destroyer has at least as many marines, and a Star Destroyer has thousands of Stormtroopers. So realistically, only the Aliens-verse or the pre-starship period of Stargate would send such small teams.

[Themightytom]

I think with Burke's briefing:

Scenario 1
Gropos- would contribute nicely to the xenomorph population. We never really saw any sensor technology, while their weapons wouldn't pierce the reactor necessarily, they have to be reloaded, they are a directed weapon that doesn't fire particularly fast, and the tactics we saw in severed dreams was not at all impressive. Colonists are dead colony is intact for another try.

Scenario 2
The federation would not have a serious problem, even if they can't beam the colonists out from the get go, they should be able to track their implants, and recognize pretty quickly that there is a lot crawling around that is not colonist. They can stage an assault to attract and then pull their people out before they are in any real danger. I think they'll immediately run into trouble because they don't have a big enough ship to evacuate the colonists. they wouldn't want to massacre the aliens, so my guess is they would decide to relocate the survivors to the medical wing and call for a bigger ship, then probably get all but annihilated when the aliens come in through the ceiling and not the hallways. Some of them will probably live, but if this is a star trek episode, somebody's gonna chest burst on the runabout, it will crash and only a few survivors will be alive when another ship gets there. Colonists experience brief hope, and then die, but colony is intact for another try!

Scenario 3
Storm troopers- Burke's briefing did not include the danger to the reactor, Ripley spotted that. My sense is that the storm troopers will attacked by the xenomorphs, protected by their armor, but damage the reactor, and they may or may not make it out in time.

Scenario 4
Stargate- Wouldn't all stomp in at once, which is nice, based on the briefing, They usually guard the gate, and of the groups listed, they are the least likely to be able to track implants, so they'd have to secure a position in the admin building first. they'd be a lot more concerned by the damage to the hallways then the marines were as well. They'd be more likely to send a small recon force first, which would probably get closer, but die faster. The P90's don't need to be supercannons, they need to kill the Xenos far enough away from the SG team that they don't get burned to death by acid. the trinium tipped bullets might shred the xenomorphs, they may also damage the reactor as well. Firing zats might not even work on the xenomorphs, they are ridiculously hardy.
If a certain Jaffa is present, he had better be double wielding circa 9th and 10th season, or he will get everyone killed trying to use his staff weapon. I doubt the scout team will get out alive, I don't see them accomplishing their mission either. The colonists are effed.
Scenario 5
Gropos arrive to rescue survivng pair of starfleeters. SF1 suffers a mental break and is killed, SF 2 explains story then chest bursts. Gropos start shooting wildly, killing each other and damaging their own shuttle. Stormtroopers arrive and subdue survivors, only to be attacked by xeno morphs as they question the rebels. As storm troopers are on landing pad, and not near reactor, they mow down waves of xenomorphs laughing the while time, falling back to shuttle, xenomorph sneaks unseen into their shuttle. Pliot pulls sidearm and fires killing xenomorph but soaking self in acid. Distraction is enough for xenomorphs to overrun surviving storm troopers

SGC sends MALP, notes carnage and locks colony out of dialing computer.

[Batman]

The tactics in Severed Dreams were in no small part dictated by the Narns being complete and utter morons, Garibaldi actually had a halfway sensible defensive plan, he just never got to implement it, pretty much every weapon needs to be reloaded eventually and carbine PPGs if nothing else have shown refire rates easily comparable to modern day automatic weapons so where do you get 'PPGs don't fire particularly fast' from?

[gigabytelord]

Stargate guys die, but not without some really clever one-liners.

I lol'd when I read that.

I'm surprised so many people are giving the Fedies an actual chance of succeeding here.

Also, I would think that whether or not any of the teams listed here, are successful at rescuing the colonist, would depend on how fast they get there and whether or not they actually listen to Ripley.

The marines that landed in the movie, didn't; at least not at the beginning, if the colonial marines hadn't been whacked multiple times by the almighty god of plot device, with a dash of stupidity, then it's reasonable to think that they may have been able to save their asses in the end aswell.

[Borgholio]

Well the feddies do have tech that would make the job a lot easier than the marines had it...beam weapons, sensors, transporfers... Naturally Picard or Janeway would try to negotiate with the xenos, then cry about genocide when the shooting started...but once the tech was employed, the xenos would have a hard time of it.

[fgalkin]

It did. For, what, 15 seconds or so?

So, we know that emptying 3 or 4 mags at a target will do damage. As long as they don't all shoot at the same spot, they ought to be fine.

That, and PPGs should cauterize the wounds they cause, minimizing acid blood spillage.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Baffalo]

I have a question regarding the assumptions being made for the Federation. The Xenomorphs, when they emerge from the body of a host, take on characteristics of the host in question. The Xenomorph seen in AvP: Requiem took on attributes of the Predators, hinting that the Xenomorphs take on part of the host's DNA to adapt to new situations. Would this therefor result in them being detected by the biofilters? Or would the mix of Xenomorph and human DNA result in the biofilters accepting it and letting it through?

Also, how would the Klingons treat the situation? Reason I ask is because of the Federation/Klingon Alliance. Would the Klingons influence the Federation's tactics? Or would they act independently of the Federation and press their attack against the Xenomorphs?

[Borgholio]

I have a question regarding the assumptions being made for the Federation. The Xenomorphs, when they emerge from the body of a host, take on characteristics of the host in question. The Xenomorph seen in AvP: Requiem took on attributes of the Predators, hinting that the Xenomorphs take on part of the host's DNA to adapt to new situations. Would this therefor result in them being detected by the biofilters? Or would the mix of Xenomorph and human DNA result in the biofilters accepting it and letting it through?

Also, how would the Klingons treat the situation? Reason I ask is because of the Federation/Klingon Alliance. Would the Klingons influence the Federation's tactics? Or would they act independently of the Federation and press their attack against the Xenomorphs?

I don't think there's any evidence that they take on any actual DNA from their host, just physical changes. Even if they did however, taking some DNA is a far cry from being identical to the host. The biofilter should have no problem finding the little guy. As for the Klingons, even they wouldn't be stupid enough to charge into an alien nest with a batleth...they'd just glass any planet they found that was overrun.

[Grumman]

I have a question regarding the assumptions being made for the Federation. The Xenomorphs, when they emerge from the body of a host, take on characteristics of the host in question. The Xenomorph seen in AvP: Requiem took on attributes of the Predators, hinting that the Xenomorphs take on part of the host's DNA to adapt to new situations. Would this therefor result in them being detected by the biofilters? Or would the mix of Xenomorph and human DNA result in the biofilters accepting it and letting it through?

If the biofilters can detect cancer (and I don't know if they can), they should be able to detect the embryo.

[Jub]

They can detect DNA with a tricorder, so I'd bet on the chest burster getting picked out by the transport buffer.

[Terralthra]

Tricorders can detect a Trill symbiote easily. I don't think the chestbursters will be difficult to detect.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

Well the feddies do have tech that would make the job a lot easier than the marines had it...beam weapons, sensors, transporfers... Naturally Picard or Janeway would try to negotiate with the xenos, then cry about genocide when the shooting started...but once the tech was employed, the xenos would have a hard time of it.

I don't think even Janeway is crazy enough to try to negotiate with animals. I can see some of the Feddies being distressed that they HAD to kill them, but no moreso than with, say, an aggressive bear that couldn't be relocated.

[Dr Roberts]

If we are assuming the groups are competent then the SGC would send a UAV. Also I find it unlikely the people would be killed in the first place. When the outbreak begins I suspect the colonists would flee to the Gate.

[Revy]

The biofilter never detected or removed those alien parasites that stuck out from the back of their hosts necks, did they? The ones that took over Starfleet?

[OmegaChief]

No, but in the Trills first apperance they couldn't use the transporters because the biofilters would remove the symbiotes, so it's a little incosistant for how good those biofilters are.

[PREDATOR490]

Removing a chestbuster should be within the capabilities of all 4 groups, detection of that chestbuster could be harder for some but it isnt THAT difficult.
Aliens 3 / 4 indicate that an implanted person can be identified by Xenos and Clone-Riply does it herself. Plus the obvious factor that anyone implaneted is likely to report getting facehugged in these groups.
Cutting off a facehugger is mainly just lethal to the host and all four groups can potentially do it without a causalty.

The major issue with getting amushed for these groups is they dont have Ripley in an armored vehicle to rescue them. Thus, if they get ambushed they either have to win, die or get out on their own. Stormtroopers would be the most likely to survive the ambush due to the armor they wear, long enough to GTFO while everyone else is getting covered in acid, hurled over long drops or being physically manhandled by xenos from every direction.

Wether that ambush really happens, I doubt it.
Stormtroopers - If your taking competent individuals then they wont walk into that ambush and could easily end up leaving the planet with insane kill counts vs. no losses and a saved facility
SGC - Again, competent individuals are going to listen to Newt + Riply and be more cautious running into the lair. Casualties are quite likely though and if ambushed the Xenos will tear them apart without much effort
GROPOS - Same as SGC
Starfleet - They love their tricorders to scan shit and if motivated can perform sweeps with their weapons along the walls of the hive which would stir the Xenos. They have a good chance of instant get out of shit card with the runabout transporters. That said, being the least armored they are completely fucked in an ambush and I can see them flaking out at the gruesome nature of Xeno attacks.

I can see the Stormies and the Feddies being the best out of the bunch wether that be the Stormies simply deciding to fuck the planet and roast it or the Feddies using their technobabble.
If the Stormies are really that concered about being ambushed - Thats what droids are for.

[Terralthra]

No, but in the Trills first apperance they couldn't use the transporters because the biofilters would remove the symbiotes, so it's a little incosistant for how good those biofilters are.

A better explanation is that transporting wouldn't remove it or harm it so much as it would detect it in the first place. At that point in the series, the Trill hadn't revealed their symbiotic nature yet. Odan says it would harm it, Crusher agrees with him, but he could have been lying, and she could have been fooled, or wrong. Jadzia/Ezri Dax and numerous other Trill hosts beam in DS9 all the time.

It could be some combination of the two. Unless the transporter biofilters know in advance they're beaming a joined symbiotic entity, they'd detect the symbiote as a parasite of some sort and remove it in transit, but it can be beamed just fine without harm once the filters know about it in advance and are told not to remove it.

[Baffalo]

No, but in the Trills first apperance they couldn't use the transporters because the biofilters would remove the symbiotes, so it's a little incosistant for how good those biofilters are.

A better explanation is that transporting wouldn't remove it or harm it so much as it would detect it in the first place. At that point in the series, the Trill hadn't revealed their symbiotic nature yet. Odan says it would harm it, Crusher agrees with him, but he could have been lying, and she could have been fooled, or wrong. Jadzia/Ezri Dax and numerous other Trill hosts beam in DS9 all the time.

It could be some combination of the two. Unless the transporter biofilters know in advance they're beaming a joined symbiotic entity, they'd detect the symbiote as a parasite of some sort and remove it in transit, but it can be beamed just fine without harm once the filters know about it in advance and are told not to remove it.

In VOY: Macrocosm, the Doctor beamed down to a colony and a virus beamed back with him. The biofilters should've taken extra precautions, especially since anything organic or not part of the doctor's holoemitter could be removed. If something like that could slip past the biofilters, what else could?

[someone_else]

- Federation troops sent to the colony in a single Runabout.

All times I've seen federation's "troops" in the series (not officers) they totally sucked balls. They either find survivors with sensors and beam them up without setting a foot on the planet or they all die horribly because of terrible training. If they send down a bunch of main charachters, they enjoy plot-invulnerability so xenos don't really have a chance.

- Imperial Stormtroopers sent to the colony in a single Lambda-class shuttle.

These seem to be the best forces. Facehuggers can go fuck themselves, bad lighting/visibiliy is much less of an issue, good armors against xenos, their weapons will likely blow holes everywhere, they are trained to act like professionals.

I really doubt they will let xenos board the lambda shuttle, as it makes sense to place a few guards if not order the lambda to take off, and the shuttle's crew isn't going to picnic outside.

- EarthForce GROPOS sent to the colony in an atmospheric shuttle.
- An SGC team delivered by Stargate.

similar for most things to Alien's original marines. They seem to both lack even the crappy detectors they had in the movie, so it in't going to end massively well unless someone intervenes.

In VOY: Macrocosm, the Doctor beamed down to a colony and a virus beamed back with him. The biofilters should've taken extra precautions, especially since anything organic or not part of the doctor's holoemitter could be removed. If something like that could slip past the biofilters, what else could?

a chestbuster is a bit more macroscopic than a bunch of virii. I think they should get stopped by filters.
But that's a plot device just like Tricorders or Phasers, it can or cannot work depending on what the playwriter decides.

[Simon_Jester]

Transporter filters aren't 100% reliable, but they're better than nothing. And they may detect organisms they fail to filter, which is useful if you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on after the first xenoform gets loose.

Random thought about filters' unreliability- filters on different ships may be set to different selectivity. There might be drawbacks to having the transporter filters be very zealous. What if it accidentally filters out your intestinal flora, or destroys a cybernetic implant, or registers the entire body of some minor alien species as 'parasite' and deletes it?

So in some situations, someone might have the filters adjusted to be less picky, for fear of losing crew or having medical emergencies due to a software bug. It's a screwup, but a very typical one; it's not like people don't sometimes disable alarms and security systems to save hassle in real life.

[Terralthra]

In VOY: Macrocosm, the Doctor beamed down to a colony and a virus beamed back with him. The biofilters should've taken extra precautions, especially since anything organic or not part of the doctor's holoemitter could be removed. If something like that could slip past the biofilters, what else could?

If I remember right, the biofilters detected the virus and purged most of it but one "slipped past."

[Revy]

Thanks for completely ignoring me, guys.

Okay, more specific - Star Trek TNG, Season 1 Episode 25, "Conspiracy". Admiral Quinn has a (macroscopic) alien parasite stuck in his neck, controlling him. He beams up to the Enterprise and the transporter neither detects nor removes the parasite. Hell, he even beams up to the ship with one of the creatures in a suitcase. Biofilters? Did squat.

Now maybe the transporters improved over time, but it seems to me that if the biofilters couldn't detect or screen out that, why the hell would it do so for a chestburster?

[Terralthra]

Thanks for completely ignoring me, guys.

Okay, more specific - Star Trek TNG, Season 1 Episode 25, "Conspiracy". Admiral Quinn has a (macroscopic) alien parasite stuck in his neck, controlling him. He beams up to the Enterprise and the transporter neither detects nor removes the parasite. Hell, he even beams up to the ship with one of the creatures in a suitcase. Biofilters? Did squat.

Now maybe the transporters improved over time, but it seems to me that if the biofilters couldn't detect or screen out that, why the hell would it do so for a chestburster?

He beamed up from another transporter pad, no? It would be simplicity itself for the conspiracy to command the operator to disable the biofilters (or do it themselves). Are there any beam-ups or beam-downs controlled by Enterprise crew in that episode?

[Revy]

I thought it was standard to beam from pad to pad when possible, so unless he beamed directly onto the bridge or whatever, the Enterprise pad would have received him through their transporter system, and that system would have scanned and reassembled him, biofilter check and all.

I'd check the episode in question but I don't have it on DVD.

Also, do we know he beamed up using a transporter pad? Or did he just stand in his office, hit his combadge and tell the Enterprise he was ready to beam up, and they used their transporter to bring him on board?

It's been a while since I saw it - has anyone got that episode?