Channel72 wrote:Medieval High Fantasy, Flash Gordon and Star Wars all have similar themes and motifs, which are quite different from science fiction in the tradition of Asimov/Huxley, etc. The former are about a hero's journey highlighted with fantasy politics, mysticism, prophecies, etc. Asmiov, Bradbury, Huxley etc. are all about exploring how technology might alter the human condition and introduce new moral and social problems. In fact, one of the things that sets science fiction apart from everything else written since the Sumerians invented writing 5000 years ago is that prior to science fiction, stories were about exploring the human condition as it is; science fiction is about exploring the human condition as it potentially could be in the future, with an emphasis on how human existence is affected by new technologies. My point is simply that a lot of modern sci-fi television focuses less on the moral and social implications of technology, and more on the political/religious/heroic element, which brings it closer to fantasy thematically.
Not so. First of all, because they didn't define the genre. They are merely representative of what many consider its Golden Age. Many science fiction before that was about hoe possible
discoveries would transform the world, not just technology. And there are themes of talking about the human condition in the present sense that predate Asimov et. al. For instance, you have H.P. Lovecraft's work, which uses science fiction to explore our fears of the unknown, the unknowable, and the possibility that we live in an uncaring and hostile world. His protagonists aren't living in the future-- they live in the now. Science changes their perception of the human condition... but it is a condition that has always been with us in his work. Notably, his work uses science fiction elements explicitly to form an elaborate mythology, with literal gods who see the cosmos as their playground.
So like I said, mythological themes have been around in science fiction since the Golden Age and earlier. Its not the role of technology that defines science fiction in the thematic sense, its the role of
science itself. Technology is merely application of knowledge to make tools, no more no less.
Please, nuBSG could easily be set in a fantasy Medieval setting without losing most of the core themes of the story. A nation of people is attacked and destroyed by an invading army, so they flee out into the wilderness, pursued by the enemy relentlessly. There's a prophecy that speaks of a faraway land (named something familiar to the audience) which their ancestors came from, etc. The only specifically "sci-fi" theme that would be lost is the idea that the Cylons were AIs created by man - so we'd lose the theme that man's reliance on technology was ultimately his undoing. But other than that, the major themes of the show would remain intact.
False. You also lose the themes of Humanity surviving or not (and thus whether or not we are worth saving), because you have scaled everything back to fit it into a world where the audience knows there are probably other human tribes and nations still able to take up the mantle of civilization. There are also issues with certain characters, because not all of them are religious or really believe in their religion. However, in a High Fantasy story the audience expects that Gods and supernatural forces are unambiguously real, so there is less room for doubt about whether things like prophesies can come true. That removes much of the tension for the audience, and makes things more predictable.
And DS9 is basically about an oppressed people recovering from an occupation, a war with a powerful enemy from a faraway land, and Sisko's journey from a skeptic to a Messiah. You're telling me this needs to be set on a 24th century space-station?
No, but at the same time I don't think you can just transplant that into a
feudal society because of the political nuances that are lost. Any time after, say, the 1940's? Maybe, although you lose the subtext in favor of actually having goddamn Nazis and Communists present in the story. Also, Sisko's journey from a normal Federation officer to a religious man and ultimately messiah of these people has greater impact because we the audience know how much this contrasts with the mostly secular culture Sisko comes from. Which again, is not something that is as easy to have in a High Fantasy world, because the audience expects there to be real deities ruling the sky. As science fiction, we can establish the wormhole aliens, but we can leave it up to the audience to figure out how much of the Bajoran religion is true and how much of it is not.
Of course, I grant that these changes would radically alter the atmosphere or "flavor" of these shows, but my point is that the themes would remain mostly intact, because these shows are not about how technology affects the human condition. They're about adventures, politics and religion IN SPACE.
But they still wouldn't be nuBSG; they wouldn't be Deep Space 9. I can accuse something like Eragon of ripping off Star Wars, but that doesn't mean its the same experience-- in fact, I can say that its a cheapened experience compared to the far more original setting explored by George Lucas.
The phrase "High Fantasy" is already in use to refer to Fantasy that rips off Tolkien and Gygax, not 50's pulp fiction. And Asmiov arguably did have his own mythology-- he even gave it the fancy sounding name "psychohistory". So it is a theme in Golden Age science fiction just as much as it is in Star Wars. It just takes on a more pretentious language and tone.
That's hilarious. First of all, you can't get me to read Warhammer 40K if you paid me in hookers. Everything I know about 40K comes from a certain friend that likes to chew my ear off about it. Star Wars? Jedi wank is killing the franchise IMO. And all this time, I've been telling you that these aren't representative, but that seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. If its fanboys you want to rage against, rather than an actual discussion about psychic powers, you are talking to the wrong guy. Try again, with less nerdrage this time.